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Posted: 7/28/2023 12:30:53 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That what I was hoping. I'm pretty sure I can't pass a medical anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow, cool. Just have to get current. been 23 years If it’s been that long, I think you will still need to get a medical. After that you can switch to FAA Basic Med, which is the driver’s license thing. I don’t remember the cutoff date, but you need to have held a medical since some specific date. That's to fly something that's not light sport. For light sport aircraft under light sport rules, no basic med required. DL only. That what I was hoping. I'm pretty sure I can't pass a medical anymore. Me too. I have Commercial, MEL, SEL & SES and I have never flunked a physical but I am pretty sure I couldn't pass one . My DL is GTG, I don't even need glasses. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 8:59:31 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without a medical? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting. How does someone with a SEL Private get a Sport license? I am not current, and can't get a medical, but it looks like you just need a Drivers License for medical If you have a PPL and a DL, you're GTG. PPL > SPL. Without a medical? Correct. For LSA, DL only. No FAA medical. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 9:02:21 AM EST
[#3]
 Brand New Mosaic FAA 2023 Rules for Light Sport Airplanes Ok, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? 
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Posted: 7/28/2023 9:24:13 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 9:55:28 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. The lovely thing about regulations is it creates a box that an engineer can build to. The old regulation was a very small box, but we ended up w/ some expensive carbon fiber designs that went to the edge of the box. With the new box, much larger, and with only those two restrictions, I bet we'll see a 250 kt LSA down the road. Any horsepower limits in the rule? Still need a high performance aircraft endorsement, I presume, but can a LS pilot w/ a DL medical get one under the new rule? |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 10:42:27 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lovely thing about regulations is it creates a box that an engineer can build to. The old regulation was a very small box, but we ended up w/ some expensive carbon fiber designs that went to the edge of the box. With the new box, much larger, and with only those two restrictions, I bet we'll see a 250 kt LSA down the road. Any horsepower limits in the rule? Still need a high performance aircraft endorsement, I presume, but can a LS pilot w/ a DL medical get one under the new rule? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. The lovely thing about regulations is it creates a box that an engineer can build to. The old regulation was a very small box, but we ended up w/ some expensive carbon fiber designs that went to the edge of the box. With the new box, much larger, and with only those two restrictions, I bet we'll see a 250 kt LSA down the road. Any horsepower limits in the rule? Still need a high performance aircraft endorsement, I presume, but can a LS pilot w/ a DL medical get one under the new rule? My understanding (could be wrong) is that they are looking at completely doing away with any restrictions on type and size of engines. One change I would expect to see fairly soon (if they go with the proposed rules), is it becoming easier to find the stall speed (clean) for various designs. Most of my internet searches have turned up the stall speed with the flaps down, but stall speed with the flaps up often seems to be some industrial secret that requires obtaining the POH for the model in question. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 10:51:39 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding (could be wrong) is that they are looking at completely doing away with any restrictions on type and size of engines. One change I would expect to see fairly soon (if they go with the proposed rules), is it becoming easier to find the stall speed (clean) for various designs. Most of my internet searches have turned up the stall speed with the flaps down, but stall speed with the flaps up often seems to be some industrial secret that requires obtaining the POH for the model in question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. The lovely thing about regulations is it creates a box that an engineer can build to. The old regulation was a very small box, but we ended up w/ some expensive carbon fiber designs that went to the edge of the box. With the new box, much larger, and with only those two restrictions, I bet we'll see a 250 kt LSA down the road. Any horsepower limits in the rule? Still need a high performance aircraft endorsement, I presume, but can a LS pilot w/ a DL medical get one under the new rule? My understanding (could be wrong) is that they are looking at completely doing away with any restrictions on type and size of engines. One change I would expect to see fairly soon (if they go with the proposed rules), is it becoming easier to find the stall speed (clean) for various designs. Most of my internet searches have turned up the stall speed with the flaps down, but stall speed with the flaps up often seems to be some industrial secret that requires obtaining the POH for the model in question. Without a weight limit, and no horsepower limit, what, can we stack two 3200 hp radials in front & two stacked on top of each other in back, meet the stall limit, 2 seats, and the rest fuel & cocaine?
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Posted: 7/28/2023 11:00:44 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Without a weight limit, and no horsepower limit, what, can we stack two 3200 hp radials in front & two stacked on top of each other in back, meet the stall limit, 2 seats, and the rest fuel & cocaine? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. The lovely thing about regulations is it creates a box that an engineer can build to. The old regulation was a very small box, but we ended up w/ some expensive carbon fiber designs that went to the edge of the box. With the new box, much larger, and with only those two restrictions, I bet we'll see a 250 kt LSA down the road. Any horsepower limits in the rule? Still need a high performance aircraft endorsement, I presume, but can a LS pilot w/ a DL medical get one under the new rule? My understanding (could be wrong) is that they are looking at completely doing away with any restrictions on type and size of engines. One change I would expect to see fairly soon (if they go with the proposed rules), is it becoming easier to find the stall speed (clean) for various designs. Most of my internet searches have turned up the stall speed with the flaps down, but stall speed with the flaps up often seems to be some industrial secret that requires obtaining the POH for the model in question. Without a weight limit, and no horsepower limit, what, can we stack two 3200 hp radials in front & two stacked on top of each other in back, meet the stall limit, 2 seats, and the rest fuel & cocaine? Just needs enough wing to get the stall speed under the limit. Kinda sucks that they are using the flaps up stall speed, but that does make some sense, since flap motors and flap transmissions have been known to fail. On the topic of fine details, I would like to see clarification on whether or not they are sticking firm with the flaps up stall speed at the time of manufacture, or if they will allow flaps up stall speed after installation of an STC'd mod that lowers the stall speed. Various STOL kits could see some renewed interest, along with development of some new STCs, if they allow using the stall speed after the mod. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 7:05:01 PM EST
[#9]
This is hope for pilots that worry about medical certification, even Basic Med. I had what is likely my last FAA physical in March because I have my doubts about being able to pass it in 2 years.
That said, I'm still healthy enough to drive, so Sport Pilot is appealing. But... I ain't holding my breath it will come to pass. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 8:44:20 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is hope for pilots that worry about medical certification, even Basic Med. I had what is likely my last FAA physical in March because I have my doubts about being able to pass it in 2 years. That said, I'm still healthy enough to drive, so Sport Pilot is appealing. But... I ain't holding my breath it will come to pass. It seems likely. Everybody wants it, and the FAA proposed it. |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 11:03:27 PM EST
[#11]
 The airplanes sport pilots could fly under MOSAIC |
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Posted: 7/28/2023 11:40:14 PM EST
[#12]
Haven't watched this yet:
 Major expansion of light sport aircraft coming! MOSAIC explained |
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Posted: 7/29/2023 1:06:41 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uIgxRqK60EOk, so looks as if there is no maximum gross weight, just the stall speed limitation (flaps & gear up) and the maximum speed. 4 seats max, of which only 2 can be used by a Sport Pilot. Twins sounds like they're limited to straight line thrust, like a 337 arrangement unless someone comes up w/ linked gearboxes like a helicopter - loss of engine must maintain straight line thrust. Given the history of losses of the 337 losing the rear engine on takeoff, I don't know that was a necessary rule, but whatever. Swing wing inline seating front & rear engine speed demon? I think they were considering future developments with electric planes, with that requirement to maintain straight line thrust. The computer controlling the multiple electric motors would be required to manage the motors to keep the thrust balanced between left and right - if the plane has three motors on each wing, and loses one motor on the left wing, the computer would have to automatically reduce the thrust from the motors on the right wing, to prevent any yawing from a thrust imbalance. With electric designs already looking at wingtip motors (to use the wingtip vortex?), the imbalance can be quite large, if there is no automated system to cut power to maintain a balance. It ends up restricting piston multi-engine aircraft, but the stall speed requirement should already rule out most of the existing models. There was an awful lot of "turbine" being thrown around in that earlier statement. Did anyone ever get a 200HP or so turbine worked out? I know at least a couple were working on it, but it still mostly seemed vaporware last time I looked. Would make for a neat LSA if possible. Wonder if old Duchess and C24R Sierra aircraft suddenly shoot up in price? Seems like a lot of older planes might skate under the proposed changes if one is willing to give up the two back seats. Pull'em out, reduce the weight factor anyway. An increase in STC's for newer motors that fit older craft? Diesels? |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:55:51 AM EST
[#14]
Just a quick update...
"The comment period has been extended to January 22. AOPA learned in discussions with FAA staff that the extension should not affect the planned implementation by the end of 2024." https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/october/05/faa-extends-mosaic-comment-deadline |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 11:31:15 AM EST
[#15]
I stopped flying when we sold our biz and retired. I'd love to have another airplane for short hop travel (200 mile) as it would solve a BIG issue for us with a new Grand daughter coming in March. I never tried to get a medical and failed. I have very few medical issues. 3000 hours and an instrument ticket. Flying a 172 would be nap time for the wife anyway.
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:18:02 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont know if a small cessna has ever made a CONUS to Hawaii flight, but there's an interesting story of a guy who did a ferry flight with a cessna 150 from the US to south africa, solo. Had a special UHF antenna wire that he manually retracted and an extra gas tank in olace of the passenger seat It was not non stop however. I doubt with the winds it would be possible to stretch out a C172 flight from CONUS to Hawaii. Maybe cheat and leave from the Aluetians? https://cessna150152club.org/Transatlantic-Cessna-150/ Ha there was a magnum PI episode with just such a C172 ferry flight featured. Of course TV and he almost made it,....crash landing in Robin Master’s tidal pool. It turns out a plot device was someone put bars of lead in the seats. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:37:09 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a quick update... "The comment period has been extended to January 22. AOPA learned in discussions with FAA staff that the extension should not affect the planned implementation by the end of 2024." https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/october/05/faa-extends-mosaic-comment-deadline Quote HistoryQuoted: Just a quick update... "The comment period has been extended to January 22. AOPA learned in discussions with FAA staff that the extension should not affect the planned implementation by the end of 2024." https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2023/october/05/faa-extends-mosaic-comment-deadline From the linked article: As proposed, the new definition of light sport would include many certified aircraft, including many certified single-engine piston airplanes. However, as AOPA Vice President of Regulatory Affairs Murray Huling noted in July, the 54-knot VS1 is “too low. It would allow a Cessna 182 but not allow a Piper Cherokee 140, and also exclude many other popular four-seat aircraft. We’ll push to get it revised to incorporate all logical four-seat aircraft.” |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 6:28:50 PM EST
[#18]
I wonder what the insurance industry thinks about all this?
I remember all the speculation about cancelled policies when Sport Pilot and the Basic Med was being proposed, but haven't heard anything about anyone being cancelled or refused renewal. |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 7:52:54 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder what the insurance industry thinks about all this? I remember all the speculation about cancelled policies when Sport Pilot and the Basic Med was being proposed, but haven't heard anything about anyone being cancelled or refused renewal. Anecdotally, I just renewed my insurance, and noticed that in the "pilot experience" section of the policy, the underwriters had indicted that I had a SP certificate. I asked my agent to get it corrected to PPL, and to let me know if it changed the premium. It did not. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 9:36:56 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder what the insurance industry thinks about all this? I remember all the speculation about cancelled policies when Sport Pilot and the Basic Med was being proposed, but haven't heard anything about anyone being cancelled or refused renewal. One of my friends will likely be priced out next year, his bill was $4000 this year. He's not a low time noob, just fit and "elderly". |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 10:25:39 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my friends will likely be priced out next year, his bill was $4000 this year. He's not a low time noob, just fit and "elderly". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I wonder what the insurance industry thinks about all this? I remember all the speculation about cancelled policies when Sport Pilot and the Basic Med was being proposed, but haven't heard anything about anyone being cancelled or refused renewal. One of my friends will likely be priced out next year, his bill was $4000 this year. He's not a low time noob, just fit and "elderly". Insurance companies tend to base premiums on reality. If older pilots generate more claims, they get charged higher premiums. Likewise, if sport pilots or those flying with basic med cost them more in pay outs, they'll be charged more for insurance. Insurance companies make money by selling policies. They aren't going to refuse to sell them unless they know from experience that it's a bad risk. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 7:57:05 PM EST
[#22]
I'm a student and my policy on my 182 is under $3k. If the 182 falls under the new rule, I would think it would stay the same??
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:08:05 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A 172 would become an LSA. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 8:36:42 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a student and my policy on my 182 is under $3k. If the 182 falls under the new rule, I would think it would stay the same?? It should, unless and until people without FAA medicals start bending disproportionate numbers of airplanes. That hasn't been the case, or they wouldn't be contemplating the rule change. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 9:39:11 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It should, unless and until people without FAA medicals start bending disproportionate numbers of airplanes. That hasn't been the case, or they wouldn't be contemplating the rule change. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm a student and my policy on my 182 is under $3k. If the 182 falls under the new rule, I would think it would stay the same?? It should, unless and until people without FAA medicals start bending disproportionate numbers of airplanes. That hasn't been the case, or they wouldn't be contemplating the rule change. 
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