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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:35:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Drone hobbyists wanted their toys to be treated like aircraft. Their wish has come true. Drone pilot training and registration soon to follow.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:40:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drone hobbyists wanted their toys to be treated like aircraft. Their wish has come true. Drone pilot training and registration soon to follow. if that means i don't have to jump through 87 hoops to legally get paid for taking pics of someone's house, or field, or car dealership, we can discuss. hobby rc planes should not have to be registered. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:40:41 PM EDT
[#3]
I got a mid size helicopter a few years ago.
I'll let you guess what I plan to do |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:42:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ One N number, but they are tracking airframes. They confirmed on the conference call. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yup. The registration is per aircraft. Jokes on them, the FAA is gonna need a bigger database when I register. 
its not per aircraft, its per pilot, so you'd have the same N number on all of your planes. http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ Q. What happens if I sell my drone?
A. You should log on to the registration website and update your registration information. We also strongly encourage you to remove your registration number from the drone before the transfer of ownership. One N number, but they are tracking airframes. They confirmed on the conference call. So it eventually will be like buying a gun via FFL then. And nobody thinks that could turn into a clusterfuck? FAA goes to congress begging for a gazillion dollar budget increase in 3…..2…… I will not comply. You can have my quad when you pry it from the cold, dead tree that I crashed it into 50 feet off the ground. No really, go get it. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:47:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I literally don't even understand the impetus behind that. Even if I grant that the impetus will be stupid, redundant, or wrong-headed, I still don't even get it. What does this accomplish? Probable cause for a search warrant. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:47:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if that means i don't have to jump through 87 hoops to legally get paid for taking pics of someone's house, or field, or car dealership, we can discuss. hobby rc planes should not have to be registered. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Drone hobbyists wanted their toys to be treated like aircraft. Their wish has come true. Drone pilot training and registration soon to follow. if that means i don't have to jump through 87 hoops to legally get paid for taking pics of someone's house, or field, or car dealership, we can discuss. hobby rc planes should not have to be registered. Oh, I agree. RC aircraft should not be registered. Unfortunately, some "drone" operators did a few things to ruin it for everybody. First they demanded that their hobby drones be treated like aircraft and have the same legal protections. Done. Now they can register them like any other aircraft. Second, a small select segment decided to use them to further their voyeuristic interests. No doubt that the hobby drone registry will be used by LE to solve crime. Lastly, another group of idiots just had to fly them in places they shouldn't. Like in the flight paths of real aircraft. Idiots doing idiotic things led to the registration. And there will be more to follow. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:48:41 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess that kites and helium balloons will need to be registered... Actually yes. Q. What about tethered drones?A. Both tethered and untethered UAS must be registered.
It would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. So an old school control line type aircraft has to be registered? 
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:49:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this is a good move. These things are dangerous and intrusive. I support increased restrictions to include height and distance limits from operators, prohibitions on recording equipment unless for approved commercial flights, and law enforcement kill switches. These things are far too common now. Very dangerous, plus the buzzing noise is annoying. They aren't protected by the constitution either, so no real obstacles to enacting some common sense restrictions and regulations. Trump 2016 You know how I know you are a DU mole? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:53:22 PM EDT
[#9]
It is interesting to read the reaction on some of the r/c boards. It's a whole lot of "Shall not comply!" And "Obama did this!".
Maybe we are starting to get through to the masses. I'm not saying it would be right, but it would be interesting to see a 10 year old getting arrested for flying a toy in the park. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:59:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will not comply. Congress didn't give them athority to regulate hobby aircraft under 55 pounds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Will not comply. Congress didn't give them athority to regulate hobby aircraft under 55 pounds. It's right there in the release. title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.), title 49 defines “aircraft” as “any contrivance invented, used, or designed to navigate or fly in the air.” 49 U.S.C. 40102(a)(6). Since a small unmanned aircraft is a contrivance that is invented, used, and designed to fly in the air, a small unmanned aircraft is an aircraft under title 49. In Public Law 112-95, Congress confirmed that unmanned aircraft, including those used for recreation or hobby purposes, are aircraft consistent with the statutory definition set forth in 49U.S.C.40102(a)(6). |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 8:59:50 PM EDT
[#11]
It takes away their anonymity to a degree. If they are flying where they shouldn't and someone manages to get the tail number, or, if their drone goes down while doing something untoward, it will be much easier to find the errant hobbyist.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:01:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQ. If I only fly it indoors, do I have to register it? A. No, the FAA does not regulate indoor UAS use. http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ Little bit of a loophole. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:02:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Double tap.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:03:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know if these have to be registered to an individual, or can they be registered to an organization. Like a high school. I would expect an organization registration would have them reviewing the use of the hobby exemption in that case. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:04:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess that kites and helium balloons will need to be registered... Actually yes. Q. What about tethered drones?A. Both tethered and untethered UAS must be registered. The registration requirement applies to takeoff weight. A helium balloon's takeoff weight is lighter than air. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:06:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is interesting to read the reaction on some of the r/c boards. It's a whole lot of "Shall not comply!" And "Obama did this!". Maybe we are starting to get through to the masses. I'm not saying it would be right, but it would be interesting to see a 10 year old getting arrested for flying a toy in the park. Really, how many bona fide hobby types have had problems with GA or CA? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:06:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Helium balloons are exempt. The registration requirement applies to takeoff weight. A helium balloon's takeoff weight is lighter than air. Good to know my plans to build a 1:1 scale Graf Zeppelin won't be thwarted. 
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:07:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It takes away their anonymity to a degree. If they are flying where they shouldn't and someone manages to get the tail number, or, if their drone goes down while doing something untoward, it will be much easier to find the errant hobbyist. The tail number does not have to be on the outside of the craft. Good luck reading the tiny number if it was! |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:07:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It takes away their anonymity to a degree. If they are flying where they shouldn't and someone manages to get the tail number, or, if their drone goes down while doing something untoward, it will be much easier to find the errant hobbyist. The number is not displayed externally. The asshats doing stupid stuff certainly are not going to bother registering. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:08:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Got my registration numbers.....
-J |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:08:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, going to be a whole lot of private flyers not wanting to register as they fly on private land, far away from anyone. About the only way they will be discovered is through frequency scans. The FCC will only love to do this. Really, how many bona fide hobby types have had problems with GA or CA? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is interesting to read the reaction on some of the r/c boards. It's a whole lot of "Shall not comply!" And "Obama did this!". Maybe we are starting to get through to the masses. I'm not saying it would be right, but it would be interesting to see a 10 year old getting arrested for flying a toy in the park. Really, how many bona fide hobby types have had problems with GA or CA? Most use things like 2.4GHz so good luck frequency scanning them. And by bona fide hobby types do you mean traditional RC aircraft? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:10:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, going to be a whole lot of private flyers not wanting to register as they fly on private land, far away from anyone. About the only way they will be discovered is through frequency scans. The FCC will only love to do this. Really, how many bona fide hobby types have had problems with GA or CA? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is interesting to read the reaction on some of the r/c boards. It's a whole lot of "Shall not comply!" And "Obama did this!". Maybe we are starting to get through to the masses. I'm not saying it would be right, but it would be interesting to see a 10 year old getting arrested for flying a toy in the park. Really, how many bona fide hobby types have had problems with GA or CA? More importantly, the full scale guys, AOPA and EAA were supporting the hobby guys. Even they didn't want to see FAA murder model aviation.  |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:13:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's just another way or the .gov to make some extra bucks. It'll cost more than it'll take in. By a extremely large margin. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:17:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It'll cost more than it'll take in. By a extremely large margin. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's just another way or the .gov to make some extra bucks. It'll cost more than it'll take in. By a extremely large margin. The new found power over the commoners is priceless. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:20:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Kiss my what????
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:21:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Does the rule address resale of a UAS? After about 4 or 5 resales the tracking of the registrations will be a challenge. Particularly if owners chose to use the snail mail option for registration.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:22:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. So an old school control line type aircraft has to be registered? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess that kites and helium balloons will need to be registered... Actually yes. Q. What about tethered drones?A. Both tethered and untethered UAS must be registered.
It would be funny if it wasn't so ridiculous. So an old school control line type aircraft has to be registered? Sure sounds like it. Failure to do so is a felony?
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:23:00 PM EDT
[#29]
The registration of RC aircraft will be as successful as the war on drugs.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:25:17 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Got my registration numbers..... https://scontent.fmci1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/12027083_1163252703702832_981456060048544887_o.jpg -J Same here.. 
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:45:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Registration is not for each individual aircraft but for owners instead. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hilarious. The R/C flyers can cripple the system in a week. There are only so many Tail Numbers... An N-Number can be in any of these formats One to five numbers (N12345) One to four numbers followed by one letter (N1234Z) One to three numbers followed by two letters (N123AZ) N-Numbers do not have A zero (0) as the first number The letters "I" or "O" Register everything you have. Now. Registration is not for each individual aircraft but for owners instead. NOPE. This says "An N number to be assigned to the registered Aircraft." https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/UA/#SmallUA Nothing there about registering Individuals |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:50:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would expect an organization registration would have them reviewing the use of the hobby exemption in that case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if these have to be registered to an individual, or can they be registered to an organization. Like a high school. I would expect an organization registration would have them reviewing the use of the hobby exemption in that case. I dug into the weeds of their 211 page document. Their intention is to ask for identifying info for individuals in trusts, corps, etc. as a way to pierce a corporate veil. It's a pretty bald-faced power grab if you take the time to read the thing. They wanted to have mandatory POS/PayPal seller-side reporting, among other things. "We decided to declare it urgent and bypass or ignore public comments." Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:53:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dug into the weeds of their 211 page document. Their intention is to ask for identifying info for individuals in trusts, corps, etc. as a way to pierce a corporate veil. It's a pretty bald-faced power grab if you take the time to read the thing. They wanted to have mandatory POS/PayPal seller-side reporting, among other things. "We decided to declare it urgent and bypass or ignore public comments." Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if these have to be registered to an individual, or can they be registered to an organization. Like a high school. I would expect an organization registration would have them reviewing the use of the hobby exemption in that case. I dug into the weeds of their 211 page document. Their intention is to ask for identifying info for individuals in trusts, corps, etc. as a way to pierce a corporate veil. It's a pretty bald-faced power grab if you take the time to read the thing. They wanted to have mandatory POS/PayPal seller-side reporting, among other things. "We decided to declare it urgent and bypass or ignore public comments." Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I don't know how they can say with a straight face that it's urgent because they drug their feet to publish it. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:54:52 PM EDT
[#34]
I hope they enforce it with utter, bloody-minded ruthlessness.
Maybe some videos of a bunch of SWAT dickheads sledging down doors to drag little Timmy off in shackles for daring to fly a toy in the King's Sky will wake up the millions of "moderate" dipshits. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:54:53 PM EDT
[#35]
I think it's time for an RC section
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Posted: 12/14/2015 9:54:56 PM EDT
[#36]
All my drones were lost in a boating accident.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:00:37 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ One N number, but they are tracking airframes. They confirmed on the conference call. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yup. The registration is per aircraft. Jokes on them, the FAA is gonna need a bigger database when I register.
its not per aircraft, its per pilot, so you'd have the same N number on all of your planes. http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/ Q. What happens if I sell my drone?
A. You should log on to the registration website and update your registration information. We also strongly encourage you to remove your registration number from the drone before the transfer of ownership. One N number, but they are tracking airframes. They confirmed on the conference call. Please provide info on the conference call. It's one registration number per owner/operator by the way I read it. That Q&A stating "update your registration information", reads to me as 'remove your registration as an owner/operator as a whole', and then remove your registration info from the aircraft you are selling. Directly from the code: Each small unmanned aircraft intended to be used other than as a model aircraft and owned by individuals or other persons, including corporations, will be issued a Certificate of Aircraft Registration with a unique registration number. § 48.110(a) But it goes on to say, and pay attention to the color highlighted text below and above: A Certificate of Aircraft Registration and registration number issued to an individual intending to use small unmanned aircraft exclusively as model aircraft, constitutes registration for those small unmanned aircraft owned by that individual that are intended to be used exclusively as model aircraft. § 48.115(a) So to expand on the two above quotes, let's explore "other than model aircraft" and also "exclusively as model aircraft" Here's the 'other than model aircraft' wording: Required information from persons registering small unmanned aircraft intended to be used as other than model aircraft. • Applicant name or name of authorized representative. • Applicant physical address (and mailing address if different than physical address). • Applicant e-mail address or email address of authorized representative. • Aircraft manufacturer and model name, and serial number, if available. • Other information as required by the Administrator. Now the 'exclusively as model aircraft' Required information from individuals registering small unmanned aircraft intended to be used exclusively as model aircraft. • Applicant name. • Applicant physical address (and mailing address if different than physical address). • Applicant e-mail address. • Other information as required by the Administrator. § 48.100 I still don't see a clear definition of "other than" or "exclusively as", but to me it looks as if those operating as a 'hobbyist' would be exempt from registering each airframe, as they're operating 'exclusively as model aircraft'. I could be wrong, though. The text DOES go on to read as follows, so perhaps section 333-336 explains the definition of "other than". I need to get some sleep, so I haven't brought that portion up to try and determine the definitions yet. Either way, this whole thing is complete BS and sucks dick. All other small unmanned aircraft intended to be used exclusively as model aircraft (i.e., for hobby and recreational purposes in accordance with the requirements of section 336 of Public Law 112-95) – newly purchased or never before used - must be registered prior to the first operation outdoors. Thus, any small unmanned aircraft purchased, received as a gift, or otherwise acquired on or after December 21, 2015, and intended to be used exclusively as a model aircraft must be registered prior to operation. Currently, small unmanned aircraft operated as other than model aircraft (i.e., for operations for non-hobby or non-recreational purposes or as a public aircraft) must continue to complete the part 47 registration process in accordance with the conditions and limitations of exemptions issued under section 333 of Public Law 112-95. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:01:10 PM EDT
[#38]
People who fly on private property could likely skirt this, unless they draw undue attention to themselves.
The deal is, that most people don't have access to free and open areas to fly at, and rely on a club. Nearly 100% of clubs require you to be a member of the AMA to join, they do so to protect their club's charter as well as minimize liability, and they want to see your AMA card to join, and your renewal to renew your club membership for the next year. Clubs will always protect themselves, so they will now require proof that you are in compliance with .GOV in order to remain in the club....a devious way to shift the burden of compliance enforcement, yet a very effective way. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:01:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Maybe those of us who do not own one of these gizmos should register?? Overwhelm the system....take one from the Marxist playbook....
Hell, some of my fellow state residents registered more than 10 round nail guns etc. ( not that I would do such a thing....) |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:16:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still don't see a clear definition of "other than" or "exclusively as", but to me it looks as if those operating as a 'hobbyist' would be exempt from registering each airframe, as they're operating 'exclusively as model aircraft'. I could be wrong, though. The text DOES go on to read as follows, so perhaps section 333-336 explains the definition of "other than". I need to get some sleep, so I haven't brought that portion up to try and determine the definitions yet. Either way, this whole thing is complete BS and sucks dick. All other small unmanned aircraft intended to be used exclusively as model aircraft (i.e., for hobby and recreational purposes in accordance with the requirements of section 336 of Public Law 112-95) – newly purchased or never before used - must be registered prior to the first operation outdoors. Thus, any small unmanned aircraft purchased, received as a gift, or otherwise acquired on or after December 21, 2015, and intended to be used exclusively as a model aircraft must be registered prior to operation. Currently, small unmanned aircraft operated as other than model aircraft (i.e., for operations for non-hobby or non-recreational purposes or as a public aircraft) must continue to complete the part 47 registration process in accordance with the conditions and limitations of exemptions issued under section 333 of Public Law 112-95. Yeah, trying to read through it myself. The problem for the FAA is the law passed in 2012 prevents them from regulating model aircraft. This law is going to be a mess and I suspect that as intended. Conference call.  |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:16:28 PM EDT
[#41]
I wish to register my penis as a small unmanned aircraft.
Sometimes it goes up without my telling it to, and it exceeds half a pound in mass. How do I comply with FAA regulations? I'm a good citizen, even if my pecker can have a mind of its own. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:17:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .55 lbs is a lot smaller than I was expecting. my son has several kites,do they want these registered too?? |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:21:23 PM EDT
[#43]
This will accomplish what?
Punish law abiding people thats what. Law is stupid, people intent on flying remote control airplanes, drones, copters etc into the flight path of a big aircraft are going to do it regardless. Another way to make money and another cluster. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:22:08 PM EDT
[#44]
I was at a drone seminar in the utility industry, lawyer giving presentation told us that another lawyer registered a paper airplane with a hobby motor to prove a point, He got it registered. FAA don't care.
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:29:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was at a drone seminar in the utility industry, lawyer giving presentation told us that another lawyer registered a paper airplane with a hobby motor to prove a point, He got it registered. FAA don't care. Not surprising. If 922(o) is ever repealed, I will register my penis and each of my fingers. I'm OK with the engraving depth requirements for Form 1 registrations. $2200 and anything I touch can legally be a machinegun. BATFE will take my money without question. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:29:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do I need to call out the FAA and NTSB when there is a crash? All registered UAV owners should absolutely do this. 
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:34:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Molon Hover
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:36:25 PM EDT
[#48]
So am I reading this right? It looks to me like every RC anything that
flies over .55 pounds has to be registered. That's like every quad copter at Best Buy, Toys R Us, and hobby shops and even some of the larger Air Hogs helicopters and foam airplanes. That number has to be in the millions of devices. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:36:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Digging through this some more, I looked back through FAA 336.
In Section 336, Congress confirmed the FAA’s long-standing position that model aircraft are aircraft. Under the terms of the Act, a model aircraft is defined as "an unmanned aircraft” that is "(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.” It seems the regulated aircraft would be those flown out of line of sight. It doesn't even include FPV if it is visible. By definition, a model aircraft must be "flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft.” P.L. 112-95, section 336(c)(2).1 Based on the plain language of the statute, the FAA interprets this requirement to mean that: (1) the aircraft must be visible at all times to the operator; (2) that the operator must use his or her own natural vision (which includes vision corrected by standard eyeglasses or contact lenses) to observe the aircraft; and (3) people other than the operator may not be used in lieu of the operator for maintaining visual line of sight. Under the criteria above, visual line of sight would mean that the operator has an unobstructed view of the model aircraft. To ensure that the operator has the best view of the aircraft, the statutory requirement would preclude the use of vision-enhancing devices, such as binoculars, night vision goggles, powered vision magnifying devices, and goggles designed to provide a "first-person view” from the model.2 Such devices would limit the operator’s field of view thereby reducing his or her ability to see-and-avoid other aircraft in the area. Additionally, some of these devices could dramatically increase the distance at which an operator could see the aircraft, rendering the statutory visual-line-of-sight requirements meaningless. Finally, based on the plain language of the statute, which says that aircraft must be "flown within the visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft,” an operator could not rely on another person to satisfy the visual line of sight requirement. See id. (emphasis added). While the statute would not preclude using an observer to augment the safety of the operation, the operator must be able to view the aircraft at all times. |
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Posted: 12/14/2015 10:39:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probable cause for a search warrant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I literally don't even understand the impetus behind that. Even if I grant that the impetus will be stupid, redundant, or wrong-headed, I still don't even get it. What does this accomplish? Probable cause for a search warrant. Winner! |
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