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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:40:12 PM EDT
[#1]
From the sounds of it...the guy that was killed was there at an agreed upon time..... He was not a threat.
When the idiot got the gun out, he escalated the situation. Both of the assholes were idiots. Either way...the shooter will be ruined. He WILL be sued by the estate in a civil suit. He will spend a fortune in court. Personally I think the shooter was an idiot. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:42:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think he said he was going to kill him at least I can't hear that on the video. He did say he would take it from him. I don't believe he touched the gun either but he did move his arm in the direction of it. Maybe it isn't quite cut and dried. I can say an argument for self defense and I can see an argument for murder. It is the kind of shooting you don't want to make because it is grey and not cut and dried, its going to bring problems. I can see why you have your perspective though. I've watched both videos several times. I don't think it was necessary to shoot him after they broke contact. If the guy had charged him after the distance was made a much stronger argument for shooting could be made. Maybe he would have charged him or maybe not but he didn't wait to find out. I seriously doubt it was a shot I would make. He is an idiot for bringing the gun out in the first place. Yep. Well said. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:44:32 PM EDT
[#3]
How much time elapsed between green shirt grabbing the firearm and black shirt breaking free then firing into green shirt? Maybe a second at most? You think you’ll know when the threat ends in that amount of time? The guy just tried to take the guys firearm.
Dude had every right to arm himself. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:46:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How the hell is everyone so calm with a dude laying dead on the porch? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:50:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe not. Isn't Texas Castle Doctrine pretty forgiving for the home owner? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well, Mr. 9mm carbine is going to regret that series of decisions...forever. Maybe not. Isn't Texas Castle Doctrine pretty forgiving for the home owner? Not THAT forgiving... |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:52:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Probably already been said.....when assholes collide
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:52:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “Every cop knows that someone who is screaming they’re gonna take your gun and kill you with it, with their hands on that cop’s gun, and advancing, that’s a situation that justifies using deadly force,” Guinn said. “The same protection holds for citizens as well.” Guy wasn't advancing when he was shot, he was standing on the porch facing the street. Shooter was standing in front of the house facing back toward the victim, presumably blocking the path of the victims escape. Victim had grabbed the gun and spun the shooter out into the yard which touched off the shooters last nerve. That's when the shooter leveled the weapon and shot him dead, and that's why Hardass McProperty is going to priz. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:53:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How come he is not sitting in jail or why did the police not arrest him? If what you are claiming is true? Because local authorities can either be incompetent or corrupt. Initially the Arbery case was deemed open and shut self defense locally, but it wasn’t until the video was released that it all started to unravel and now the local authorities are facing charges. I’ve been hearing mixed things on the current status of the case, but it was initially deemed a justifiable homicide but the ex/wife judge of the shooter had to recuse herself while also making statements about his mental health. Now this video is out there I’m going to guess this case will take a different direction… |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:55:11 PM EDT
[#9]
At 01:07, green shirt says he’ll take it from him then the rest is censored with a audio bleep. Lol.
At 01:16, green shirt has his hand on the rifle. You can see they are struggling for control over the firearm.  How much time elapses between black shirt breaking free and the first shot? Maybe a second? Maybe? Watch the video, he had to actually turn around. ETA: Maybe I’m looking at a different video but there’s no way to tell if green shirt is advancing on him. The video is cropped. Between the bleeping at critical moments and the cropping, this is looking like propaganda being put out. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:58:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn’t in the penal code. It is typically considered as deadly force regardless if that was your intention or not. It digs a hole you will have to crawl out of legally. Every CHL or LTC class I have been in stresses that warning shots are nothing but legal trouble and can do great damage to your ability to claim self defense. You will be responsible for every bullet that leaves that gun. Do an internet search on firing warning shots in Texas and read what the lawyers say. Ok, thanks. Its been a long long time since I studied penal code or any code. But regarding this warning shot, couldn't it be viewed as doing everything possible to avoid using deadly force to end a situation? Couldnt that be a positive? I for sure would never want to fire on someone or take a life in defense and would be happier than a pig in shit to be able to end a situation with a simple brandishing of a firearm or even a warning shot into the ground. I can't see any prosecutor charging someone for shooting a warning shot safely in the ground (although this seemed to be really close to the dead guys feet) to avoid deadly force. Am I seeing this wrong in regard to the warning shot? If use of force can be a circle or wheel for LE, why would deadly force be the only allowed force for non le? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guy wasn't advancing when he was shot, he was standing on the porch facing the street. Shooter was standing in front of the house facing back toward the victim, presumably blocking the path of the victims escape. Victim had grabbed the gun and spun the shooter out into the yard which touched off the shooters last nerve. That's when the shooter leveled the weapon and shot him dead, and that's why Hardass McProperty is going to priz. Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:00:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Bad shoot, jail time
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:00:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with all of that. Trespassing though isn't justification for shooting. He was wrong for trespassing, they/she was wrong for preventing him from getting his kid. All of that is irrelevant to the shooting. Was the shooting justified by their physical interaction or not ? It might have been if he had shot him when he fired the warning shot. After stepping away I'm not sure. As we know justification changes very fast in these events. I think he had the drop on him at the time of the shooting and at that time the guy wasn't charging him. You've made me think about it and it is a closer call then I first thought. It is a case that should go a jury. Dead guy wan't holding/raising a baseball bat that I'm not seeing was he? "FAFO" father/son duo had a better justification than this shooter did, by far, IMHO. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:01:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 01:07, green shirt says he’ll take it from him then the rest is censored with a audio bleep. Lol. At 01:16, green shirt has his hand on the rifle. You can see they are struggling for control over the firearm. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/384478/AC01EAF9-FC6F-4704-9FBF-395127742F7C-2181372.png How much time elapses between black shirt breaking free and the first shot? Maybe a second? Maybe? Watch the video, he had to actually turn around. ETA: Maybe I’m looking at a different video but there’s no way to tell if green shirt is advancing on him. The video is cropped. Between the bleeping at critical moments and the cropping, this is looking like propaganda being put out. The first shot happened before the grapple for the gun. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:03:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Guy wasn't advancing when he was shot, he was standing on the porch facing the street. Shooter was standing in front of the house facing back toward the victim, presumably blocking the path of the victims escape. Victim had grabbed the gun and spun the shooter out into the yard which touched off the shooters last nerve. That's when the shooter leveled the weapon and shot him dead, and that's why Hardass McProperty is going to priz. Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. Point is he grabbed the gun. ETA: After threatening to take it from black shirt. So if he said he was going to do it, and he actually tried to do it, doesn’t that sort of lay it out for you? |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:03:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Guy wasn't advancing when he was shot, he was standing on the porch facing the street. Shooter was standing in front of the house facing back toward the victim, presumably blocking the path of the victims escape. Victim had grabbed the gun and spun the shooter out into the yard which touched off the shooters last nerve. That's when the shooter leveled the weapon and shot him dead, and that's why Hardass McProperty is going to priz. Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. Which was also after the verbal threat of I’m going to take it and use it on you. At that verbal threat, deadly force was automatically authorized. Its all caught on camera. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first shot happened before the grapple for the gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At 01:07, green shirt says he’ll take it from him then the rest is censored with a audio bleep. Lol. At 01:16, green shirt has his hand on the rifle. You can see they are struggling for control over the firearm. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/384478/AC01EAF9-FC6F-4704-9FBF-395127742F7C-2181372.png How much time elapses between black shirt breaking free and the first shot? Maybe a second? Maybe? Watch the video, he had to actually turn around. ETA: Maybe I’m looking at a different video but there’s no way to tell if green shirt is advancing on him. The video is cropped. Between the bleeping at critical moments and the cropping, this is looking like propaganda being put out. The first shot happened before the grapple for the gun. We don’t know if that was a ND or warning shot but in any case green shirt didn’t leave when told but chose to get physical with an armed home owner protecting himself, his property, and others. Maybe green shirt should have taken the hint. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:07:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which was also after the verbal threat of I’m going to take it and use it on you. At that verbal threat, deadly force was automatically authorized. Its all caught on camera. This is what I'm thinking and I think all of GD would agree if it was just two guys in a parking lot somewhere arguing over a parking space or a fender bender. I think the fact that it was supposed to be a child swap is introducing emotions into the mix instead of looking at the facts. The child custody stuff is all a civil matter and usually doesnt even get a LE response other than a cell phone call unless there is a disturbance. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:07:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, thanks. Its been a long long time since I studied penal code or any code. But regarding this warning shot, couldn't it be viewed as doing everything possible to avoid using deadly force to end a situation? Couldnt that be a positive? I for sure would never want to fire on someone or take a life in defense and would be happier than a pig in shit to be able to end a situation with a simple brandishing of a firearm or even a warning shot into the ground. I can't see any prosecutor charging someone for shooting a warning shot safely in the ground (although this seemed to be really close to the dead guys feet) to avoid deadly force. Am I seeing this wrong in regard to the warning shot? If use of force can be a circle or wheel for LE, why would deadly force be the only allowed force for non le? Basically they are saying there is no such thing as a Legal warning shot. It will be used against you in court and if that warning shot causes damage to an unintended target, injures or worse kills someone not intended you are up shit creek. It will also play a role in who escalated things to a deadly manner. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:09:58 PM EDT
[#20]
After watching this, and sitting on it for a day…
Without any additional context that could come out during a trial… I see this as an emotional shooting and the shooter being in the wrong here. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:14:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which was also after the verbal threat of I'm going to take it and use it on you. At that verbal threat, deadly force was automatically authorized. Its all caught on camera. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Guy wasn't advancing when he was shot, he was standing on the porch facing the street. Shooter was standing in front of the house facing back toward the victim, presumably blocking the path of the victims escape. Victim had grabbed the gun and spun the shooter out into the yard which touched off the shooters last nerve. That's when the shooter leveled the weapon and shot him dead, and that's why Hardass McProperty is going to priz. Also guy only grabbed the gun after shooter shot a round point blank at his feet. Which was also after the verbal threat of I'm going to take it and use it on you. At that verbal threat, deadly force was automatically authorized. Its all caught on camera. Second shot was after green shit grabbed gun and flung black shirt into the yard. After a hop or two to regain footing he shot. Time to hop twice was "green shirt was standing still", after starting the physical altercation\threats\two gun grabs. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:16:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After watching this, and sitting on it for a day… Without any additional context that could come out during a trial… I see this as an emotional shooting and the shooter being in the wrong here. Of course there were emotions involved. Everyone caught on video was angry*. That doesn’t make it a bad shoot. Did green shirt leave when told? Did he get extremely aggressive both verbally and physically? Did he place his hands on black shirt’s firearm after threatening to take it from him? Did black shirt get thrown off his porch trying to break green shirt’s hold on the firearm? How much time elapsed between breaking free, turning around, and firing the first round into green shirt? ETA: * Including the person taking the supplied video. It’s still crazy to me they were arguing while green shirt was face down on the porch after being shot. ETAx2: After watching the video (a few times), I can’t understand how anyone can view this as a bad shoot. Lots of emotion, yeah. I think some of you are tainted by empathy, yeah (understandable). The arguing even after is crazy as shit, yeah. But black shirt told him to go, green shirt became very erratic. I’m not saying bury someone up to their neck and pour honey over their head but if someone tried that with me, I’d have no issues (chest thump moment - heat of the moment) to pistol whip that sonofabitch all the way down my driveway to remove him off my property. Get off my property. Your child custody issues don’t belong on my porch. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:19:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We don’t know if that was a ND or warning shot but in any case green shirt didn’t leave when told but chose to get physical with an armed home owner protecting himself, his property, and others. Maybe green shirt should have taken the hint. There are a lot of facts that seem to be in dispute so I can't give an informed opinion. -Who actually owns the house? -Where is the kid, and why has the mother not produced him per the agreement? The answers matter here. If he was effectively helping the mom violate the custody agreement, doesn't he go from "homeowner protecring his property" to "criminal accomplice?" |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:23:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t see it that way. He didn’t escalate anything. He armed himself. ETA: When green shirt guy jumped onto the porch and started throwing his weight on black shirt…that’s escalation. ETA: Black shirt only reinforced his position. He told someone to get off his property, they refused. Who’s escalating? Get off my property. I don’t care what your issue is at that point. I may have sympathy for you at a later time or may even empathize with you but at that moment, with you behaving belligerently, refusing to leave my property after being told to repeatedly, becoming more aggressive towards me and others, I couldn’t give two fucks what you’re going through emotionally. Just leave and leave now before this goes any further. I suppose I can see it both ways, but I feel strongly that a weapon didn't need to be part of the equation. And, now that I understand the relationships (regarding who was the judge), and the fact that the shooter was her soon-to-be-ex, I can't help but wonder what precipitated their break-up. Had he shown violent tendencies or threatened his judge-wife? Or, had he been banging the dead guy's ex and got caught? Obviously, emotions were running high, but maybe dead guy's anger was justified - and, again, a weapon was inappropriate to the circumstances, as we know them/see them. Legal shoot (or not), I bet the shooter is a fucking jackass. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:25:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are a lot of facts that seem to be in dispute so I can't give an informed opinion. -Who actually owns the house? -Where is the kid, and why has the mother not produced him per the agreement? The answers matter here. If he was effectively helping the mom violate the custody agreement, doesn't he go from "homeowner protecring his property" to "criminal accomplice?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We don’t know if that was a ND or warning shot but in any case green shirt didn’t leave when told but chose to get physical with an armed home owner protecting himself, his property, and others. Maybe green shirt should have taken the hint. There are a lot of facts that seem to be in dispute so I can't give an informed opinion. -Who actually owns the house? -Where is the kid, and why has the mother not produced him per the agreement? The answers matter here. If he was effectively helping the mom violate the custody agreement, doesn't he go from "homeowner protecring his property" to "criminal accomplice?" That’s up to the court. Court is not held on my porch. ETA: Court is not held on my porch. You need to leave before you force this to go any further. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:29:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn’t in the penal code. It is typically considered as deadly force regardless if that was your intention or not. It digs a hole you will have to crawl out of legally. Every CHL or LTC class I have been in stresses that warning shots are nothing but legal trouble and can do great damage to your ability to claim self defense. You will be responsible for every bullet that leaves that gun. Do an internet search on firing warning shots in Texas and read what the lawyers say. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: can anyone cite the whole "firing a warning shot is illegal" in the texas penal code? I'm not saying I don't believe you I just don't particularly remember it and it on the face sounds like something that is L.E. only type of thing. I can't see someone getting charged by firing a shot into the ground in the middle of no where (I know this isnt the case with this but if it is state law it will apply to every case). It isn’t in the penal code. It is typically considered as deadly force regardless if that was your intention or not. It digs a hole you will have to crawl out of legally. Every CHL or LTC class I have been in stresses that warning shots are nothing but legal trouble and can do great damage to your ability to claim self defense. You will be responsible for every bullet that leaves that gun. Do an internet search on firing warning shots in Texas and read what the lawyers say. Warning Shots aren't in the Texas Penal Code because there IS NO "Warning Shot". You fired a shot in the direction of a person (Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon) , or you fired a shot NOT "aimed or in the directed at a person" but that MAY travel far away and strike a stranger (Deadly Conduct). Gun goes off in anything but a 100% certified "Good Shoot on Bad Guy", expect to be charged with one or two felonies for that "Warning Shot". |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:34:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Shitty situation but a good shoot.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:35:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Warning Shots aren't in the Texas Penal Code because there IS NO "Warning Shot". You fired a shot in the direction of a person (Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon) , or you fired a shot NOT "aimed or in the directed at a person" but that MAY travel far away and strike a stranger (Deadly Conduct). Gun goes off in anything but a 100% certified "Good Shoot on Bad Guy", expect to be charged with one or two felonies for that "Warning Shot". I dont think that is correct, you cant hold the same standards to someone in a crowded mall and a rancher on his 20k acre ranch shooting some bird shot into the ground. I think the whole "warning shot equals you get charged" thing is over played quite a bit. ETA: If i was on the jury and i think most other people would think it was a positive that " i fired a warning shot into the ground to try and scare him away so the situation could settle down" as opposed to " i shot him in the chest because that was the only thing i could do because you arent supposed to shoot a warning shot according to some defense lawyers". Its kind of like the use of force continuum with LE, there are different levels of force from command presence to lethal force to brandishing a fire arm to empty hands to closed hand techniques. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:39:48 PM EDT
[#29]
WOw, nobody on that video seems to care that the guy was just shot and killed...
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:43:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WOw, nobody on that video seems to care that the guy was just shot and killed... I know, right? It was like everyone karened up and demanded to speak to the manager at the same time afterwards. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:49:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was not in fear for his life. He killed someone for not obeying him. If the exchange was agreed to take place at that residence. He was not trespassing, he was invited. He was no threat, yelling at someone is not a deadly force situation. If you were kept away from your child. you would ether be yelling and angry, or you don't give a shit about your kid. Killing a man that wanted to see his kid at an agreed upon tine and place is somehow okay with some of you  There were a million options that didn't involve bringing a gun to the situation. That's what make's it a bad shoot, and I hope that dude spends the rest of his life in a box thinking about that.It may appear that way but we don’t know all the facts such as their previous history. It will be sorted out in time if the grand jury indicts. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Fuck the shooter. Hope he enjoys a life sentence. That situation in no way demanded lethal force.
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:50:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Estranged husband, or ex-husband? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Interesting statements from the ex wife judge. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/7C1C44B7-D03A-4E02-A619-22C995603296_jpe-2181217.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/BEC9016C-D2F4-42FB-8C1B-B98FCFA3BA03_jpe-2181218.JPG I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Estranged husband, or ex-husband? Estranged at the time of the shooting. Ex as of this week. Seems she was able to get the divorce finalized a lot quicker than normal. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:50:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Goodbye Felicia(s)
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:51:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont think that is correct, you cant hold the same standards to someone in a crowded mall and a rancher on his 20k acre ranch shooting some bird shot into the ground. I think the whole "warning shot equals you get charged" thing is over played quite a bit. ETA: If i was on the jury and i think most other people would think it was a positive that " i fired a warning shot into the ground to try and scare him away so the situation could settle down" as opposed to " i shot him in the chest because that was the only thing i could do because you arent supposed to shoot a warning shot according to some defense lawyers". Its kind of like the use of force continuum with LE, there are different levels of force from command presence to lethal force to brandishing a fire arm to empty hands to closed hand techniques. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Warning Shots aren't in the Texas Penal Code because there IS NO "Warning Shot". You fired a shot in the direction of a person (Aggravated Assault w/a Deadly Weapon) , or you fired a shot NOT "aimed or in the directed at a person" but that MAY travel far away and strike a stranger (Deadly Conduct). Gun goes off in anything but a 100% certified "Good Shoot on Bad Guy", expect to be charged with one or two felonies for that "Warning Shot". I dont think that is correct, you cant hold the same standards to someone in a crowded mall and a rancher on his 20k acre ranch shooting some bird shot into the ground. I think the whole "warning shot equals you get charged" thing is over played quite a bit. ETA: If i was on the jury and i think most other people would think it was a positive that " i fired a warning shot into the ground to try and scare him away so the situation could settle down" as opposed to " i shot him in the chest because that was the only thing i could do because you arent supposed to shoot a warning shot according to some defense lawyers". Its kind of like the use of force continuum with LE, there are different levels of force from command presence to lethal force to brandishing a fire arm to empty hands to closed hand techniques. Look it up. Take a class. Talk to a lawyer that deals with this stuff. There is no such thing as a warning shot in Texas no matter what you may think about it. Fire one off at your own risk. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:52:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Estranged at the time of the shooting. Ex as of this week. Seems she was able to get the divorce finalized a lot quicker than normal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting statements from the ex wife judge. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/7C1C44B7-D03A-4E02-A619-22C995603296_jpe-2181217.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/BEC9016C-D2F4-42FB-8C1B-B98FCFA3BA03_jpe-2181218.JPG I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Estranged husband, or ex-husband? Estranged at the time of the shooting. Ex as of this week. Seems she was able to get the divorce finalized a lot quicker than normal. I am reckoning the dead guy didn't object.... |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:52:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Why bring out the gun for a some domestic argument
Also pretty calm for just witnessing your spouse getting murdered. Edit- don't know the history or details but from the video alone I'm going bad shoot for now. |
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Posted: 11/25/2021 11:57:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look it up. Take a class. Talk to a lawyer that deals with this stuff. There is no such thing as a warning shot in Texas no matter what you may think about it. Fire one off at your own risk. I just don't see how you can be charged with something that isn't listed as a legit charge (I'm not talking about something that fits the elements of the offense of deadly conduct, agg assault etc.) Sounds more like a "he crossed state lines" that we have had to hear recently. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:03:14 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is what I'm thinking and I think all of GD would agree if it was just two guys in a parking lot somewhere arguing over a parking space or a fender bender. I think the fact that it was supposed to be a child swap is introducing emotions into the mix instead of looking at the facts. The child custody stuff is all a civil matter and usually doesnt even get a LE response other than a cell phone call unless there is a disturbance. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which was also after the verbal threat of I’m going to take it and use it on you. At that verbal threat, deadly force was automatically authorized. Its all caught on camera. This is what I'm thinking and I think all of GD would agree if it was just two guys in a parking lot somewhere arguing over a parking space or a fender bender. I think the fact that it was supposed to be a child swap is introducing emotions into the mix instead of looking at the facts. The child custody stuff is all a civil matter and usually doesnt even get a LE response other than a cell phone call unless there is a disturbance. The implication with the child custody stuff is green shirt never would have been there if he was able to pick up his son at 3:15 like he mentioned at the start of the video. The shooting was after 4pm. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:05:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don't see how you can be charged with something that isn't listed as a legit charge (I'm not talking about something that fits the elements of the offense of deadly conduct, agg assault etc.) Sounds more like a "he crossed state lines" that we have had to hear recently. It is listed as a legit charge just not Warning Shot. Could be reckless endangerment, assault, etc etc.. You will be held responsible for every round that leaves that gun. Firing a warning shot could also get you shot in retaliation and at that point you were the aggressor that was shot in self defense. Warning shots are dumb. Keep it in your pants and don’t pull it out unless you intend to use it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:06:41 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am reckoning the dead guy didn't object.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Interesting statements from the ex wife judge. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/7C1C44B7-D03A-4E02-A619-22C995603296_jpe-2181217.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200878/BEC9016C-D2F4-42FB-8C1B-B98FCFA3BA03_jpe-2181218.JPG I'm having a hard time figuring this out. Estranged husband, or ex-husband? Estranged at the time of the shooting. Ex as of this week. Seems she was able to get the divorce finalized a lot quicker than normal. I am reckoning the dead guy didn't object.... Considering the judge was married to the shooter, they are both still alive.  |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:08:34 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why bring out the gun for a some domestic argument Also pretty calm for just witnessing your spouse getting murdered. Edit- don't know the history or details but from the video alone I'm going bad shoot for now. Maybe green shirt said, "This doesn't concern you", maybe he said "Fuck you, I'll kick your ass, Come at me", maybe he said "rubber baby buggy bumpers". He refused to leave, was confrontational, and stalked after black shirt. Black shirt decided it was prudent to arm himself, and after Green shirts actions towards an armed man, after refusing to leave and being confrontational maybe it was. This doesn't include green shirts previous history, actual or otherwise. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:11:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I suppose I can see it both ways, but I feel strongly that a weapon didn't need to be part of the equation. And, now that I understand the relationships (regarding who was the judge), and the fact that the shooter was her soon-to-be-ex, I can't help but wonder what precipitated their break-up. Had he shown violent tendencies or threatened his judge-wife? Or, had he been banging the dead guy's ex and got caught? Obviously, emotions were running high, but maybe dead guy's anger was justified - and, again, a weapon was inappropriate to the circumstances, as we know them/see them. Legal shoot (or not), I bet the shooter is a fucking jackass. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don’t see it that way. He didn’t escalate anything. He armed himself. ETA: When green shirt guy jumped onto the porch and started throwing his weight on black shirt…that’s escalation. ETA: Black shirt only reinforced his position. He told someone to get off his property, they refused. Who’s escalating? Get off my property. I don’t care what your issue is at that point. I may have sympathy for you at a later time or may even empathize with you but at that moment, with you behaving belligerently, refusing to leave my property after being told to repeatedly, becoming more aggressive towards me and others, I couldn’t give two fucks what you’re going through emotionally. Just leave and leave now before this goes any further. I suppose I can see it both ways, but I feel strongly that a weapon didn't need to be part of the equation. And, now that I understand the relationships (regarding who was the judge), and the fact that the shooter was her soon-to-be-ex, I can't help but wonder what precipitated their break-up. Had he shown violent tendencies or threatened his judge-wife? Or, had he been banging the dead guy's ex and got caught? Obviously, emotions were running high, but maybe dead guy's anger was justified - and, again, a weapon was inappropriate to the circumstances, as we know them/see them. Legal shoot (or not), I bet the shooter is a fucking jackass. Dead guy’s new wife stated he had evidence of the affair and was going to spill the beans. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:13:13 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No offense but I think some of you are letting your empathy cloud your judgement here. Divorced, child custody battle, ex-wife issue(s). Again no offense but you’re tainted by past personal experiences. That's a poor choice of words. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:15:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a poor choice of words. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No offense but I think some of you are letting your empathy cloud your judgement here. Divorced, child custody battle, ex-wife issue(s). Again no offense but you’re tainted by past personal experiences. That's a poor choice of words.  Soft Cell - Tainted Love (Official Music Video) |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:16:27 AM EDT
[#46]
tag for outcome
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:17:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is listed as a legit charge just not Warning Shot. Could be reckless endangerment, assault, etc etc.. You will be held responsible for every round that leaves that gun. Firing a warning shot could also get you shot in retaliation and at that point you were the aggressor that was shot in self defense. Warning shots are dumb. Keep it in your pants and don't pull it out unless you intend to use it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:19:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead guy's new wife stated he had evidence of the affair and was going to spill the beans. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:34:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 0:10 black shirt tells green shirt to get off property. Green shirt faces black shirt, opens arms, says something. Black shirt walks away. Green shirt follows him for a few steps. Maybe green shirt said, "This doesn't concern you", maybe he said "Fuck you, I'll kick your ass, Come at me", maybe he said "rubber baby buggy bumpers". He refused to leave, was confrontational, and stalked after black shirt. Black shirt decided it was prudent to arm himself, and after Green shirts actions towards an armed man, after refusing to leave and being confrontational maybe it was. This doesn't include green shirts previous history, actual or otherwise. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why bring out the gun for a some domestic argument Also pretty calm for just witnessing your spouse getting murdered. Edit- don't know the history or details but from the video alone I'm going bad shoot for now. Maybe green shirt said, "This doesn't concern you", maybe he said "Fuck you, I'll kick your ass, Come at me", maybe he said "rubber baby buggy bumpers". He refused to leave, was confrontational, and stalked after black shirt. Black shirt decided it was prudent to arm himself, and after Green shirts actions towards an armed man, after refusing to leave and being confrontational maybe it was. This doesn't include green shirts previous history, actual or otherwise. Not baby daddy doesn't have ANY role in this that is legit. He is a nothing in the eyes of the court when it comes to child custody/support/visitation. He inserted himself where he had no right to do so legally or civilly. Unless the soon to be ex started physically assaulting the female who wasn't complying with visitation orders, he should have stayed out of it and kept his mouth shut. Yeah it's damn hard to do but that is just the way it is. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 12:36:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it sounds like you were either justified to use lethal force or not - you're not automatically in trouble just because you missed them like some seem to have implied. If you are justified you should be putting rounds on target. You will still be responsible for the misses As well. The way it was explained to us was there is no justification for a warning shot. A warning shot/missing to scare, etc will just get you in trouble or make your defense in court more difficult. Do carry classes not cover this stuff in other parts of the country? |
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