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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:37:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm all for grabbing a gun and being armed if the case arises but bringing out a gun here is retarded. Get your woman in the house and stand at the door with the gun if you are fearful of your life why come back out?
Dude didn't show up randomly i assume and not knowing tge back story i can't say for sure but this doesn't seem like a situation I'd consider pulling a weapon. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:38:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of folks in this thread posting authoritatively about Texas law, without actually knowing Texas law. You can't use deadly force against a trespasser in Texas, day or night. Not unless they breach the envelope of your home. The threat to use deadly force can hence be viewed as assault. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classic example of “you can’t provoke the situation and claim self defense” Nothing in that video warranted him to bring a gun out. You can’t use deadly force to threaten somebody who’s not been aggressive to leave your property. He showed utter disregard for human life by just bringing a gun into a verbal argument. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He’s going to prison. Oh hell yes you can threaten deadly force after repeatedly telling somebody to leave. When somebody tells you to get off, you better leave the property. If you don’t, you just opened all kinds of lawful use of force to remove you. Try getting into an argument on a bouncer when he demands you leave. You don’t? They can use all force up to but not including deadly to remove you. Bullshit. You cannot shoot someone for refusing to leave. You guys are dense. THREATEN use of deadly force after being repeatedly told to leave. That’s lawful. The instant dead guy grabbed the gun, immediate, imminent, capable deadly threat with verbal assault. A lot of folks in this thread posting authoritatively about Texas law, without actually knowing Texas law. You can't use deadly force against a trespasser in Texas, day or night. Not unless they breach the envelope of your home. The threat to use deadly force can hence be viewed as assault. Got damn you guys are dense. He didn’t use deadly force against a trespasser. He used deadly force against an immediate threat that verbally said I’m going to take it and use against you. Clear, capable, imminent deadly threat with means to do so. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:42:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Facepalm. I outlined exactly what made the shooting justified, and how THREATS of deadly force are authorized after being demanded repeatedly to leave. So you can threaten to kill people and it's legal as long as you are on your property? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:46:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got damn you guys are dense. He didn’t use deadly force against a trespasser. He used deadly force against an immediate threat that verbally said I’m going to take it and use against you. Clear, capable, imminent deadly threat with means to do so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classic example of “you can’t provoke the situation and claim self defense” Nothing in that video warranted him to bring a gun out. You can’t use deadly force to threaten somebody who’s not been aggressive to leave your property. He showed utter disregard for human life by just bringing a gun into a verbal argument. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He’s going to prison. Oh hell yes you can threaten deadly force after repeatedly telling somebody to leave. When somebody tells you to get off, you better leave the property. If you don’t, you just opened all kinds of lawful use of force to remove you. Try getting into an argument on a bouncer when he demands you leave. You don’t? They can use all force up to but not including deadly to remove you. Bullshit. You cannot shoot someone for refusing to leave. You guys are dense. THREATEN use of deadly force after being repeatedly told to leave. That’s lawful. The instant dead guy grabbed the gun, immediate, imminent, capable deadly threat with verbal assault. A lot of folks in this thread posting authoritatively about Texas law, without actually knowing Texas law. You can't use deadly force against a trespasser in Texas, day or night. Not unless they breach the envelope of your home. The threat to use deadly force can hence be viewed as assault. Got damn you guys are dense. He didn’t use deadly force against a trespasser. He used deadly force against an immediate threat that verbally said I’m going to take it and use against you. Clear, capable, imminent deadly threat with means to do so. You're not responding to something I wrote. Coming out of the house with a firearm to deal with a trespasser and threatening to use it is very likely assault in Texas. Shooting a round into the floor, which is clearly not self defense, is aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. He could get 20 years for that. Killing a man who is trying to take your weapon away after threatening to use it against you should fall under self defense and therefore a justified homicide in Texas. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:46:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Everyone has different levels of pussy including me but this is far from a gun pulling fear situation. I can't even fight that great relatively speaking and I would of rather handled this mono e mono(if it was that deep).
I'll let the court decide and digress on what's legal but if you guy's are pulling guns in this situation (at least from the video) I think you need to take up jujitsu and work out. This is not a threat imo just a domestic retard dispute. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:49:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this goes to trial, this is the picture they are going to show the moment before he fired. They might enhance it a couple of times though  https://i.imgur.com/zQqYPJ1.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What legal code or law did shooter break by being armed on his own property? You might be right about "you can’t provoke the situation and claim self defense”, but in this case since the shooter didn't do anything illegal, dead guy provoked it by initiating verbal threats of murder and physically assaulting the shooter. Although I did forget this place is basically DU Lite and everyone is ready to fry the shooter simply for being armed. If this goes to trial, this is the picture they are going to show the moment before he fired. They might enhance it a couple of times though https://i.imgur.com/zQqYPJ1.jpg Sure, just as I'd expect a liberal prosecutor to argue exactly like a liberal. Take one snapshot of the situation and present it completely out of context to twist the narrative. He's out in his lawn because he was just assaulted by dead guy, whi physically threw the shooter into his own yard. Good shoot. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:50:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Holy shit. Some people shouldn’t have access to guns.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:50:24 PM EDT
[#8]
What is it with people named Kyle?
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:50:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you go back inside your house like a pussy and grab your gun, then come out and shoot someone- you are a worthless piece of shit and deserve to get ass-fucked for decades to come in prison. Absolutely horrific shoot. Maybe he has a legal loophole, maybe not. Him going inside and bringing a gun show premeditated murder to me. Get your people inside the house and call the cops, asshole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m starting to think the huge disparity in all our takes is the state laws we are used to because I’m shocked how some think its ok to be a accosted on your own porch. If you go back inside your house like a pussy and grab your gun, then come out and shoot someone- you are a worthless piece of shit and deserve to get ass-fucked for decades to come in prison. Absolutely horrific shoot. Maybe he has a legal loophole, maybe not. Him going inside and bringing a gun show premeditated murder to me. Get your people inside the house and call the cops, asshole. This sounds eerily similar to fat Kenosha prosecutor suggesting KR just go hand to hand with people who wanted to kill him and "take his lumps" like a man. Please stay far away from Texas. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:52:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of folks in this thread posting authoritatively about Texas law, without actually knowing Texas law. You can't use deadly force against a trespasser in Texas, day or night. Not unless they breach the envelope of your home. The threat to use deadly force can hence be viewed as assault. Ah I misread. You may be right. However, you can use deadly force for all manner of things at night here in Texas that isn't self defense. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:52:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Also I have been with chicks who had the baby daddy come get the kid and sometimes arguements happen but I'm not getting involved unless he puts his hands on her.
This just makes gun owners look bad and when someone pulls a gun out in a heated situation I'm getting the hell out of there. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:57:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone has different levels of pussy including me but this is far from a gun pulling fear situation. I can't even fight that great relatively speaking and I would of rather handled this mono e mono(if it was that deep). I'll let the court decide and digress on what's legal but if you guy's are pulling guns in this situation (at least from the video) I think you need to take up jujitsu and work out. This is not a threat imo just a domestic retard dispute. You are correct, but you're missing an important dynamic in this incident. The fact that Chad wasn't even a little apprehensive about getting in Kyle's face while he's armed, not even after Kyle fires a warning shot, clearly indicates to me that they have a bully/victim relationship. Only an established bully would feel that the victim is so weak that they can't possibly harm him. Victims see bullies as powerful giants and feel helpless against them. We've had victims of bullying shoot up entire schools because of this type of helplessness. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 9:59:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds eerily similar to fat Kenosha prosecutor suggesting KR just go hand to hand with people who wanted to kill him and "take his lumps" like a man. Please stay far away from Texas. Carrying a gun to protect yourself and running to grab one (in this situation) isn't the same but I understand your point. I'm thinking manslaughter here but I don't know tge complete picture. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:01:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WRONG on the GF angle. That is shooters ex-wife (estranged then) who was NOT present. So the judge is irrelevant? |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:02:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah I misread. You may be right. However, you can use deadly force for all manner of things at night here in Texas that isn't self defense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of folks in this thread posting authoritatively about Texas law, without actually knowing Texas law. You can't use deadly force against a trespasser in Texas, day or night. Not unless they breach the envelope of your home. The threat to use deadly force can hence be viewed as assault. Ah I misread. You may be right. However, you can use deadly force for all manner of things at night here in Texas that isn't self defense. If you follow the letter of the law in Texas, you can kill someone who is fleeing with your stolen property at night. If you study case history, you won't do that. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:02:38 PM EDT
[#16]
All who suggests this is a justified shoot, how do you explain the body language of the shooter? He’s chest bumping and talking shit.
How does that illustrate “in fear for his life”? Regardless of the criminal trial, he’ll be broke from the civil suit. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:04:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are correct, but you're missing an important dynamic in this incident. The fact that Chad wasn't even a little apprehensive about getting in Kyle's face while he's armed, not even after Kyle fires a warning shot, clearly indicates to me that they have a bully/victim relationship. Only an established bully would feel that the victim is so weak that they can't possibly harm him. Victims see bullies as powerful giants and feel helpless against them. We've had victims of bullying shoot up entire schools because of this type of helplessness. That's why I keep clarifying that I don't know the history. For all i know the dead guy is a maniac and has a history of violence. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:05:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If this goes to trial, this is the picture they are going to show the moment before he fired. They might enhance it a couple of times though https://i.imgur.com/zQqYPJ1.jpg Yup. I don't see this passing as self defense. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:05:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All who suggests this is a justified shoot, how do you explain the body language of the shooter? He’s chest bumping and talking shit. How does that illustrate “in fear for his life”? Regardless of the criminal trial, he’ll be broke from the civil suit. Right from the video it's looking like a pride thing and that's why I'm saying bad shoot. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:10:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, just as I'd expect a liberal prosecutor to argue exactly like a liberal. Take one snapshot of the situation and present it completely out of context to twist the narrative. He's out in his lawn because he was just assaulted by dead guy, whi physically threw the shooter into his own yard. Good shoot. He is in the lawn because black shirt guy shot at (the feet of) green shirt guy on the porch. Green shirt guy acted in self-defense. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holy shit. Some people shouldn’t have access to guns. You may be a 20'er, but damn - you have wisdom beyond your years!! BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:11:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Regardless of how this plays out, I see it as a perfect example of what not to do. Black shirt will likely be broke. Possibly broke and in prison. Call the cops and let them shoot the asshole.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:15:52 PM EDT
[#23]
I personally think this is a bad shoot and at the end of the day if this is deemed lawful I think we need to raise the bar a little. No reason to go inside and grab a firearm, no reason to fire a warning shot and certainly no reason to kill the guy after doing all of those prior things.
This is in essence the fear the other side has had coming true - all arguments will be solved with guns and killing. It is becoming more and more common. Most likely from the ever so growing division between us driven by politics, fake news, different cultures and social isolation from COVID. Every time I turn around it seems a shooting or fights at football games, baseball games or just in general public venues. This has always been a thing but it has become more common over the last 3 or so years I swear. It is boiling and looking more and more like we are going to get there. Those two could have thrown fists and I bet nobody ended up dead and most likely they both got tired before either of them actually got hurt. Such a stupid incident. I am all for self defense but this isn't it, IMHO. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:16:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Cuck boyfriend inserted himself into a situation he doesn’t need to be involved with. Hope he ends up in prison or broke. Preferably both.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:35:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How in the hell would that be a burglary? Texas laws man. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:36:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit. You cannot shoot someone for refusing to leave. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Classic example of “you can’t provoke the situation and claim self defense” Nothing in that video warranted him to bring a gun out. You can’t use deadly force to threaten somebody who’s not been aggressive to leave your property. He showed utter disregard for human life by just bringing a gun into a verbal argument. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. He’s going to prison. Oh hell yes you can threaten deadly force after repeatedly telling somebody to leave. When somebody tells you to get off, you better leave the property. If you don’t, you just opened all kinds of lawful use of force to remove you. Try getting into an argument on a bouncer when he demands you leave. You don’t? They can use all force up to but not including deadly to remove you. Bullshit. You cannot shoot someone for refusing to leave. At this point I think it’s intentional refusal to read it correctly. That word not must be invisible to some people. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:37:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I conflated the two things there, if you are choosing to read it that way. He doesn't need one single reason to arm himself on his own property, and there is no restriction on him doing so regardless of whether someone is trespassing, is being aggressive etc.. It isn't escalating "automatically" just to have a gun present, and your saying it does is against the 2nd and counterproductive to the protection of it. It is supposed to be a very strong deterrent if you, unlike the dad, have any sense at all, or even the slightest part of your faculties, which I'm guessing you would. Yes I think the shooter is a slime bag because of the particular situation. It just doesn't bear on my ability to see who was the obvious aggressor here. It is one thing to empathize with the guy, and put yourself in his shoes. But if you do so, are you really honestly suggesting you, as an unarmed person on someone else's property that has been told to leave multiple times, would make the actual threat that was made, to take the gun and kill him with it? And butt up against him, square off, chest thump, and even if you wouldn't accept he reached to grab it the first time, would you start trying to knock it around and not expect this outcome? Once he has the gun the situation has certainly changed, and remaining there threatening him and then trying to disarm him is not just stupid as hell, it's illegal. It was not illegal to arm himself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. If needed... The guy was threatening to take him to court  Yes I think the shooter is a slime bag because of the particular situation. It just doesn't bear on my ability to see who was the obvious aggressor here. It is one thing to empathize with the guy, and put yourself in his shoes. But if you do so, are you really honestly suggesting you, as an unarmed person on someone else's property that has been told to leave multiple times, would make the actual threat that was made, to take the gun and kill him with it? And butt up against him, square off, chest thump, and even if you wouldn't accept he reached to grab it the first time, would you start trying to knock it around and not expect this outcome? Once he has the gun the situation has certainly changed, and remaining there threatening him and then trying to disarm him is not just stupid as hell, it's illegal. It was not illegal to arm himself. Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:42:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you go back inside your house like a pussy and grab your gun, then come out and shoot someone- you are a worthless piece of shit and deserve to get ass-fucked for decades to come in prison. Absolutely horrific shoot. Maybe he has a legal loophole, maybe not. Him going inside and bringing a gun show premeditated murder to me. Get your people inside the house and call the cops, asshole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m starting to think the huge disparity in all our takes is the state laws we are used to because I’m shocked how some think its ok to be a accosted on your own porch. If you go back inside your house like a pussy and grab your gun, then come out and shoot someone- you are a worthless piece of shit and deserve to get ass-fucked for decades to come in prison. Absolutely horrific shoot. Maybe he has a legal loophole, maybe not. Him going inside and bringing a gun show premeditated murder to me. Get your people inside the house and call the cops, asshole. Your username is amusing in this context. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:48:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're not responding to something I wrote. Coming out of the house with a firearm to deal with a trespasser and threatening to use it is very likely assault in Texas. Shooting a round into the floor, which is clearly not self defense, is aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. He could get 20 years for that. Killing a man who is trying to take your weapon away after threatening to use it against you should fall under self defense and therefore a justified homicide in Texas. That last sentence is NOT true if you just shot at him unlawfully. At that point, HE would be defending himself by taking your gun from you. This is not justified as the shooter repeatedly broke the law and killed a man when it was not reasonable to believe he might lose his life or be seriously injured....and when he instigated the entire thing. ETA: I don't fault the guy for bringing the gun out, it's what he did afterwards that is the issue. He should have called for his wife/GF thang to go inside. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:49:10 PM EDT
[#30]
All the videos we always see it's just nuts to me how often the soon to be dead person continues to scream the person holding the gun "shoot me, I dare you" as they keep walking at them. Must be a byproduct of Hollywood or something.
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:49:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. Well Said - he MAY eventually beat the Murder rap, but he's definitely going to take the "Jungle Cruise" though the Felony Trial Legal System... THAT is definitely an "E" ticket cost too! BIGGER_HAMMER |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:51:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the videos we always see it's just nuts to me how often the soon to be dead person continues to scream the person holding the gun "shoot me, I dare you" as they keep walking at them. Must be a byproduct of Hollywood or something. Be Very careful what you ask for, because you just may get it... 
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:54:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the videos we always see it's just nuts to me how often the soon to be dead person continues to scream the person holding the gun "shoot me, I dare you" as they keep walking at them. Must be a byproduct of Hollywood or something. nah; they recognize that most people use a gun to intimidate someone but have zero willingness to use it. Basically they know the person is a chump thats too afraid to actually offer any resistance |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 10:56:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All the videos we always see it's just nuts to me how often the soon to be dead person continues to scream the person holding the gun "shoot me, I dare you" as they keep walking at them. Must be a byproduct of Hollywood or something. Just the opposite. The people with the gun seem to think it is a magic talisman to gain immediate compliance. I think that is learned from Hollywood. In real life, I was always told by people that I respect not to pull a weapon unless you are prepared to use it as it will often escalate the situation. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:01:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the judge is irrelevant? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: WRONG on the GF angle. That is shooters ex-wife (estranged then) who was NOT present. So the judge is irrelevant? No. Some think it’s the woman in the video. Which is causing lots of confusion. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:07:12 PM EDT
[#36]
I find it interesting that so often I read GD posters saying "don't invite The Man into your life". And here so many are saying shooter should have done just that,
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:20:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Has this been posted here?
For what it's worth, it Looks like plenty of distance between parties here.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:21:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got damn you guys are dense. He didn’t use deadly force against a trespasser. He used deadly force against an immediate threat that verbally said I’m going to take it and use against you. Clear, capable, imminent deadly threat with means to do so. I was familiar with a similar set of circumstances in KY and the guy got charged (and last I recall likely convicted of) murder. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:22:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find it interesting that so often I read GD posters saying "don't invite The Man into your life". And here so many are saying shooter should have done just that, And the alternative is wasting a guy and having the man invite himself into your life involuntarily. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:26:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has this been posted here? For what it's worth, it Looks like plenty of distance between parties here. Attached FileThat perfectly illustrates the point I was making earlier about green shirt trying to leave. Assuming that's his white truck, how is he supposed to leave without black shirt perceiving a threat because he's advancing? When you tell a guy to leave then you have to let him leave. That is the law regarding tresspassers. Black shirt effectively had him captive and then executed him. That's the proverbial smoking gun before the actual smoking gun. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:26:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds eerily similar to fat Kenosha prosecutor suggesting KR just go hand to hand with people who wanted to kill him and "take his lumps" like a man. Please stay far away from Texas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m starting to think the huge disparity in all our takes is the state laws we are used to because I’m shocked how some think its ok to be a accosted on your own porch. If you go back inside your house like a pussy and grab your gun, then come out and shoot someone- you are a worthless piece of shit and deserve to get ass-fucked for decades to come in prison. Absolutely horrific shoot. Maybe he has a legal loophole, maybe not. Him going inside and bringing a gun show premeditated murder to me. Get your people inside the house and call the cops, asshole. This sounds eerily similar to fat Kenosha prosecutor suggesting KR just go hand to hand with people who wanted to kill him and "take his lumps" like a man. Please stay far away from Texas. Huh... so Kyle ran away from a confrontation so he could go grab a long gun and come back to be Mr. Tough Guy? Must've missed that part of the trial. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:26:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it a "warning shot" or ND? Can anyone confirm either with vetted information? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whatever terminology you want to use, it's clear to me the guy used his hands and fingers to (grab, grasp, hold) the shooter and the weapon in a manner that allowed him to pull the shooter towards him, spin him around 180 degrees, and launch him off the porch. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_52_53_AM-2181934.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_53_48_AM-2181935.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_10_53_21_AM-2181936.pnghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/367483/Screen_Shot_2021-11-26_at_11_13_25_AM-2181938.png That was definitely after the first shot. All bets are off then. https://i.imgur.com/qEwFwky.gif Is it a "warning shot" or ND? Can anyone confirm either with vetted information? Ultimately it's a perfect example of "Assholes Collide". But one of them is dead over it. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:26:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. If needed... The guy was threatening to take him to court Yes I think the shooter is a slime bag because of the particular situation. It just doesn't bear on my ability to see who was the obvious aggressor here. It is one thing to empathize with the guy, and put yourself in his shoes. But if you do so, are you really honestly suggesting you, as an unarmed person on someone else's property that has been told to leave multiple times, would make the actual threat that was made, to take the gun and kill him with it? And butt up against him, square off, chest thump, and even if you wouldn't accept he reached to grab it the first time, would you start trying to knock it around and not expect this outcome? Once he has the gun the situation has certainly changed, and remaining there threatening him and then trying to disarm him is not just stupid as hell, it's illegal. It was not illegal to arm himself. Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. This is a ''my gun is a magic talisman'' moment. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:29:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, just as I'd expect a liberal prosecutor to argue exactly like a liberal. Take one snapshot of the situation and present it completely out of context to twist the narrative. He's out in his lawn because he was just assaulted by dead guy, whi physically threw the shooter into his own yard. Good shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What legal code or law did shooter break by being armed on his own property? You might be right about "you can’t provoke the situation and claim self defense”, but in this case since the shooter didn't do anything illegal, dead guy provoked it by initiating verbal threats of murder and physically assaulting the shooter. Although I did forget this place is basically DU Lite and everyone is ready to fry the shooter simply for being armed. If this goes to trial, this is the picture they are going to show the moment before he fired. They might enhance it a couple of times though https://i.imgur.com/zQqYPJ1.jpg Sure, just as I'd expect a liberal prosecutor to argue exactly like a liberal. Take one snapshot of the situation and present it completely out of context to twist the narrative. He's out in his lawn because he was just assaulted by dead guy, whi physically threw the shooter into his own yard. Good shoot. Spitballin, but I'd guess a Grand Jury might view the distance and timing in that photo and video, the same way the jury viewed the pause before nosy old parking police guy shot the asshole who shoved him to the ground. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:38:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is where your train goes off the rails. If he has the right to use force, but not deadly force (I don't agree, but these were your words), he can't justify walking into the house and grabbing his rifle. He murdered the guy, plain and simple. What else is on your arbitrary list of times when you aren't within your legal rights to arm yourself and defend yourself on your own property? Mine is pretty short - if lawfully ordered by authorities. If needed... The guy was threatening to take him to court Yes I think the shooter is a slime bag because of the particular situation. It just doesn't bear on my ability to see who was the obvious aggressor here. It is one thing to empathize with the guy, and put yourself in his shoes. But if you do so, are you really honestly suggesting you, as an unarmed person on someone else's property that has been told to leave multiple times, would make the actual threat that was made, to take the gun and kill him with it? And butt up against him, square off, chest thump, and even if you wouldn't accept he reached to grab it the first time, would you start trying to knock it around and not expect this outcome? Once he has the gun the situation has certainly changed, and remaining there threatening him and then trying to disarm him is not just stupid as hell, it's illegal. It was not illegal to arm himself. Retreating into the house and emerging with a gun is where the escalation begins. He didn't just "have the gun present". He introduced it to the incident. And when he introduced it, did he stand in the doorway and say "time for you to leave, fuck face."? No. He came back out onto the porch and puffed up in the guy's face trying to big dick him off the property. Call it escalation, provacation, brandishing, whatever you want. A gun is not an extension of your dick, ffs. A lot of the operators in here seem to be forgetting that. That's where he'll get jammed up. IMO, once a grand jury sees the video, he's taking the ride. Yes, he basically did. He is barely outside the door with the gun pointed up and the first thing he says is "Leave, right now". He does not move from there, the dad closes on him and does all the stuff you are saying the black shirt guy did, while threatening him. I'm not sure where your rule for where you need to be standing is coming from, nor why you think staying in the house has any bearing. The idea that you are not allowed to retrieve a firearm when someone is making a disturbance on your property and refuses to leave, is just disturbing though. I sure wouldn't call it brandishing, he's holding it pointed up. Sure, he is escalating his previous demands that the dad leaves his property, yes. How is that not his right? Quoted: https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/wife-of-chad-read-releases-video-of-deadly-shooting-ssj/?fbclid=IwAR29w3xlf3Bekb8HwwBWEL2bv3AC_ECVVAwm6-i2JPzPwqAIqO_rIkS1hnM "you better fuckin use it motherfucker 'cause I'd do it I'll fuckin take it from you and fuckin use it on you" Clear as fucking day. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:40:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That perfectly illustrates the point I was making earlier about green shirt trying to leave. Assuming that's his white truck, how is he supposed to leave without black shirt perceiving a threat because he's advancing? When you tell a guy to leave then you have to let him leave. That is the law regarding tresspassers. Black shirt effectively had him captive and then executed him. That's the proverbial smoking gun before the actual smoking gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Has this been posted here? For what it's worth, it Looks like plenty of distance between parties here.https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/9106/Screenshot_20211126-221832_Samsung_Inter-2182509.JPG That perfectly illustrates the point I was making earlier about green shirt trying to leave. Assuming that's his white truck, how is he supposed to leave without black shirt perceiving a threat because he's advancing? When you tell a guy to leave then you have to let him leave. That is the law regarding tresspassers. Black shirt effectively had him captive and then executed him. That's the proverbial smoking gun before the actual smoking gun. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:44:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That perfectly illustrates the point I was making earlier about green shirt trying to leave. Assuming that's his white truck, how is he supposed to leave without black shirt perceiving a threat because he's advancing? When you tell a guy to leave then you have to let him leave. That is the law regarding tresspassers. Black shirt effectively had him captive and then executed him. That's the proverbial smoking gun before the actual smoking gun. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:57:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This makes absolutely no sense. He was told to leave multiple times and had every opportunity to. Instead he put himself in that exact position by going to that spot where he is standing in the pic, getting in the guy with the gun's face, and tossing the guy with the gun over to where he was standing in the pic. The shooter was actually blocking the dead guy from leaving with the gun. When dead guy tried to move the gun (not grab) he got shot at. |
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Posted: 11/26/2021 11:58:07 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This sounds eerily similar to fat Kenosha prosecutor suggesting KR just go hand to hand with people who wanted to kill him and "take his lumps" like a man. Please stay far away from Texas. |
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Posted: 11/27/2021 12:01:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yummy!!!  Is it Taco Tuesday Yet??  BIGGER_HAMMER Bet her box doesn't have that new tang smell. But id probably make bad decisions with her. Munch n mac |
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