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Posted: 4/5/2022 6:02:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turks purged their officer corps and then drove tanks into a city without infantry like it was grozny or something. Don’t read too much into that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Javelin was first, but I think a few fire-and-forget man-portable ATGMs are out there now. And the dread Turks have shown that useful UAVs aren't restricted to the West/Israel/etc. NLAW also has a few copy cats out there. No doubt the Russians are just fucking up more than usual, but the Turks lost about a dozen Leopard 2s in Syria. Older models, but not THAT old. Modern MBTs are gonna have harder time out there from here on out, unless there is some revolution in APS. Turks purged their officer corps and then drove tanks into a city without infantry like it was grozny or something. Don’t read too much into that. But the thing is that officers or no, there are a *LOT* more technological threats out there that are absolutely devastating to armor. Everything from suicide drones to drone designated smart artillery, to using drones as the locking method for a shoulder launched ATGM. Armor is incredible vulnerable on today's battlefield. They're, right now, working on using a drone that any soldier can just launch, it goes high up, spots the evil tank that needs a missile in the turret, and the firing soldier could be anywhere within the range of that missile to the evil tank even behind buildings, pointed the other way, with zero line of sight to the target, get a firing solution and kill that tank. That's not only possible right now, they're working on it. On the other side, they're absolutely working on countermeasures to stop those missiles. The thing is, however, that the pace at which the means to kill tanks is incredibly rapid, while the pace of those countermeasures is relatively slow. This means that armor is, at this moment vs the U.S., absolutely obsolete. The Russians and Chinese don't yet have the capabilities that we do in that regard, but they're working diligently to get it by hook or crook, and for a time, armor will be almost entirely obsolete and little more than a 100 ton casket. After a time, IMHO, armor will catch up when actually effective countermeasures are realized, and once again armor will be king and likely stay that way for the simple reason that you can put a whole lot of really cool toys on a tank. |
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Posted: 4/5/2022 6:02:47 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might be a bit early to write an obituary for MBTs. Let's see how the battle goes by Russia against the heart of the Ukraine army that is facing Donbass. It's said Russia is bringing more forces in theatre. Expect to see a Russian force of 250,000 spearheaded by the 1st Guards Tank Army, 2nd Motor Rifle division and the 4th Tank guards division. Those guys already got their shit pushed in. They have to reconstitute it. |
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Posted: 4/5/2022 6:04:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the thing is that officers or no, there are a *LOT* more technological threats out there that are absolutely devastating to armor. Everything from suicide drones to drone designated smart artillery, to using drones as the locking method for a shoulder launched ATGM. Armor is incredible vulnerable on today's battlefield. They're, right now, working on using a drone that any soldier can just launch, it goes high up, spots the evil tank that needs a missile in the turret, and the firing soldier could be anywhere within the range of that missile to the evil tank even behind buildings, pointed the other way, with zero line of sight to the target, get a firing solution and kill that tank. That's not only possible right now, they're working on it. On the other side, they're absolutely working on countermeasures to stop those missiles. The thing is, however, that the pace at which the means to kill tanks is incredibly rapid, while the pace of those countermeasures is relatively slow. This means that armor is, at this moment vs the U.S., absolutely obsolete. The Russians and Chinese don't yet have the capabilities that we do in that regard, but they're working diligently to get it by hook or crook, and for a time, armor will be almost entirely obsolete and little more than a 100 ton casket. After a time, IMHO, armor will catch up when actually effective countermeasures are realized, and once again armor will be king and likely stay that way for the simple reason that you can put a whole lot of really cool toys on a tank. I don’t really disagree. I think though that the west will have defenses before threats have the weapons in sufficient quantity. |
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Posted: 4/5/2022 6:06:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t really disagree. I think though that the west will have defenses before threats have the weapons in sufficient quantity. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But the thing is that officers or no, there are a *LOT* more technological threats out there that are absolutely devastating to armor. Everything from suicide drones to drone designated smart artillery, to using drones as the locking method for a shoulder launched ATGM. Armor is incredible vulnerable on today's battlefield. They're, right now, working on using a drone that any soldier can just launch, it goes high up, spots the evil tank that needs a missile in the turret, and the firing soldier could be anywhere within the range of that missile to the evil tank even behind buildings, pointed the other way, with zero line of sight to the target, get a firing solution and kill that tank. That's not only possible right now, they're working on it. On the other side, they're absolutely working on countermeasures to stop those missiles. The thing is, however, that the pace at which the means to kill tanks is incredibly rapid, while the pace of those countermeasures is relatively slow. This means that armor is, at this moment vs the U.S., absolutely obsolete. The Russians and Chinese don't yet have the capabilities that we do in that regard, but they're working diligently to get it by hook or crook, and for a time, armor will be almost entirely obsolete and little more than a 100 ton casket. After a time, IMHO, armor will catch up when actually effective countermeasures are realized, and once again armor will be king and likely stay that way for the simple reason that you can put a whole lot of really cool toys on a tank. I don’t really disagree. I think though that the west will have defenses before threats have the weapons in sufficient quantity. I hope you're right. I like being on the side that is sick of winning. |
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