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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:15:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I thought I read the figures were highly understated intentionally? The cars were fuck ugly tho
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:16:48 PM EDT
[#2]
My 1994 Integra GS-R had 170hp from a 1.8L.
My current S2000 makes 240hp from 2.2L. It’s an 06 but it was designed in the 90s. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:17:42 PM EDT
[#3]
If you thought the 90s were bad, just wait until you hear about the 70s.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:17:49 PM EDT
[#4]
because technology hadn't caught up with the gov't yet
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:18:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Lol the 80s were worse...
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:18:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Early emission control choke down
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:19:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Computers sure are neat.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:20:00 PM EDT
[#8]
The easy availability of computational fluid dynamics blew their minds.
Kharn |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:21:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol the 80s were worse...https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296186/Screenshot_20230819_211725_Chrome_jpg-2925563.JPG Still one of the sexiest designs ever. Good thing it looked fast, it sure wasn’t. 
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:23:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Low compression ratios
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:24:16 PM EDT
[#11]
I had a 91’ Camaro RS with the 305 V8….. it had 190 HP.
It was good at burning gas, eating front tires and pretending to be an oven in the summer. That’s it. 
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:26:34 PM EDT
[#12]
My '86 mustang GT had a whole 200 HP from the factory.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:26:49 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol the 80s were worse...https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296186/Screenshot_20230819_211725_Chrome_jpg-2925563.JPG In 1976, Cadillac sold a 500 cubic inch (8.2L) V8 that made 190 horsepower. You read that right... Five hundred cubic inches for less than 200 hp. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:26:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Porsche, BMW and Honda didn’t have the same problem.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:27:22 PM EDT
[#15]
The boomers will tell you that the small bock V8's were the pinnacle of engines....
Like the 1995 Chevy 350 that put out 200 horsepower and 310 lb/ft of torque but then bitch about today's turbo 4 cylinders in pickups that put down 310 horsepower a d 430 lb/ft of torque. and tell you it's "weak." |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:28:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: What changed? |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:30:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Low compression ratios More accurately, today's higher compression ratios. This isn't a backwards looking exercise. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:30:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Computers sure are neat. Yep. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:32:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Emissions.
Stuff in the 60s was decent power...then death in the 70s, early computer FI in the 80s to 90s |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:33:38 PM EDT
[#20]
My first car I ever purchased at the age of 16 was a 1976 olds starfire ...3.8 Buick v6 4spd manual . 105hp 180 ft/lb . Felt sporty at the time ('86).
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:34:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The boomers will tell you that the small bock V8's were the pinnacle of engines.... Like the 1995 Chevy 350 that put out 200 horsepower and 310 lb/ft of torque but then bitch about today's turbo 4 cylinders in pickups that put down 310 horsepower a d 430 lb/ft of torque. and tell you it's "weak." 96 was yhe first year of the vortec 350 which was 250ish. 97 was the LS1 in the vette with 350hp. Mid 90s in when stuff started improving. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:34:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Lots of little things that add up.
Metallurgy and machining today is leaps and bounds ahead of yesteryear allowing mass produced engines to be able to handle it. Don't get it twisted, they could make a high horsepower engines back then but that was for race type engines and not mass produced stuff. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:35:42 PM EDT
[#23]
EPA
and other things |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:36:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In 1976, Cadillac sold a 500 cubic inch (8.2L) V8 that made 190 horsepower. You read that right... Five hundred cubic inches for less than 200 hp. How in the hell is that even possible? |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:37:03 PM EDT
[#25]
My 1985 Caprice Classic had a 305 V8. That's a full 5.0.
It had 165 horsepower. I could spin the wheels when it rained. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:37:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still one of the sexiest designs ever. Good thing it looked fast, it sure wasn’t. Doesn't it have a lower Cd going in reverse? |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:37:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More accurately, today's higher compression ratios. This isn't a backwards looking exercise. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Low compression ratios More accurately, today's higher compression ratios. This isn't a backwards looking exercise. Pre 1972 cars had higher compression ratios. When they went to Emissions Standards they lowered the compression ratios and got rid of leaded fuel. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:37:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Low compression combined with intentionally poor (cheap to manufacture) fuel injection computers.
Ignition timing computer controls on Euro built cars of the same era supported their higher compression, often 2 or more points higher than American cars. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:39:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still one of the sexiest designs ever. Good thing it looked fast, it sure wasn’t. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol the 80s were worse...https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296186/Screenshot_20230819_211725_Chrome_jpg-2925563.JPG Still one of the sexiest designs ever. Good thing it looked fast, it sure wasn’t.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:39:07 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:40:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Modern computer aided design and fluid dynamic computations took weeks of super computer power back then. Just for a single model.
Now that computer power in your pocket can crank it out in 30 seconds. Dedicated workstation less than a second. What took super computer computations weeks are now almost real time. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:43:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: 215hp from a 5.0L V8? Todays 5.0s are double that. It’s not like there was a progressive increase in HP per liter either. It’s like it just went crazy after 2010. 1960-2005 was about flat. What changed? Ford should have gone the GM route instead of the "mod " motor . All aluminum 5.0 , vvt , direct injection (plus port injection) . Could've done the same with the 3.8-4.2. Which, Originally the 3.8 was supposed to have an aluminum block. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:44:37 PM EDT
[#33]
If you really want high power for displacement, F/I is where it's at.
The Americans have been slow to accept this, and many still don't. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:45:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you thought the 90s were bad, just wait until you hear about the 70s. Or the 80's
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:46:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Nobody ever heard of liters so they just made shit up.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:48:59 PM EDT
[#36]
1990 ford mustang curb weight : ~2,800 pounds
2023 ford mustang curb weight : ~3,700 pounds plus the 300+ ft/lbs of torque made for fairly dynamic acceleration. yes they weren't rocket ships stock - esp. compared to many modern cars - but they were decently quicker than some statistical comparisons might infer |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:51:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Porsche, BMW and Honda didn’t have the same problem. We're Honda people, of the 10 or so we've owned all were pretty anemic - until the Odyssey. Maybe 80's & 90's Hondas suffered like other car brands, but 06' Odyssey, 14' Accord, 19' Passport, and 22' Accord (2.0T w/ tune) can freeway merge! |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:52:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: 215hp from a 5.0L V8? Todays 5.0s are double that. It’s not like there was a progressive increase in HP per liter either. It’s like it just went crazy after 2010. 1960-2005 was about flat. What changed? My 1980 Z28 had a 350 engine. HP was 185 |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:53:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 1985 Caprice Classic had a 305 V8. That's a full 5.0. It had 165 horsepower. I could spin the wheels when it rained. I had an 88' Sentra. Pretty sure it had 88hp. Maybe it was 82, or 28. Got great gas mileage
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:55:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: 215hp from a 5.0L V8? Todays 5.0s are double that. It’s not like there was a progressive increase in HP per liter either. It’s like it just went crazy after 2010. 1960-2005 was about flat. What changed? Good Question. My 1974 Buick Riviera with a 455 only put out 285 HP or so but at least 350 Torque. My BMW 3.0 puts out 355 HP and 345 Torque |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:56:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Mostly warmed over 1960's engine tech. EFI really helped and allowed the use of high compression pistons again.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:57:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Because Americans believed HP/L was "Ricer Math" and just kept putting bigger inefficient engines in.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:58:50 PM EDT
[#43]
The best part is how it used to be advertised.
With... 200 hundred available horsepower! Now, no one cares commuter, no mention of 350hp.. But look we glued ipads to every surface! |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 10:59:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Again computational power. In the 90s this thing called networking was also coming about. The ability of computers to talk to each other instead of just terminals at 9600 baud.
This power was t just fluid dynamics. Metallurgy, machining, the modern ECU…everything. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:02:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We're Honda people, of the 10 or so we've owned all were pretty anemic - until the Odyssey. Maybe 80's & 90's Hondas suffered like other car brands, but 06' Odyssey, 14' Accord, 19' Passport, and 22' Accord (2.0T w/ tune) can freeway merge! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Porsche, BMW and Honda didn’t have the same problem. We're Honda people, of the 10 or so we've owned all were pretty anemic - until the Odyssey. Maybe 80's & 90's Hondas suffered like other car brands, but 06' Odyssey, 14' Accord, 19' Passport, and 22' Accord (2.0T w/ tune) can freeway merge! 88-91 (4th gen) civic was available with a 160hp 1.6l B16A and weighed roughly 2000lbs. Mine with a motor swap (JDM DOHC ZC), turbo, full tank of gas, and me in the seat was 2100lbs if I remember correctly. I made zero effort to lighten it up. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:04:02 PM EDT
[#46]
because the engineers were being fgucked by the MBAs and C suite.
Carol Shelby and Gale Fuckin Banks were making big power. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:04:28 PM EDT
[#47]
They were still recovering from the 70’s and 80’s.
351ci motors with 180hp. At the crank. |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:04:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How in the hell is that even possible? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In 1976, Cadillac sold a 500 cubic inch (8.2L) V8 that made 190 horsepower. You read that right... Five hundred cubic inches for less than 200 hp. How in the hell is that even possible? Dribble liquid fuel into the air flow and hope it stays atomized enough to ignite? Kharn |
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:05:23 PM EDT
[#49]
The Honda S2000 came out in 1999. It’s F20C 2.0 litre in-line 4 in it’s US variant produced 234hp, or 117h per litre.
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Posted: 8/19/2023 11:05:42 PM EDT
[#50]
EPA be like
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