Doomy the Chicken  claims page three

Sadly a lot of folks don't even care about that; they have ulterior motives that are not good.



 

How many trillions of non existent dollars were borrowed to keep the economy stumbling along in that time? How does it feel to realize your lil kiddos children and likely their children are on the hook for our excess govt spending? They WILL suffer and their quality of life will NOT be the same as ours is.

I've never envisioned a "Mad Max" scenario, just a general decline in quality of life and lowered expectations for each succeeding generation because the govt HAS to have more and more of your earnings to service the debt.

You're right. And this is exactly what is wrong with the OP (amongst other things) is that people who were brought up in an environment to work their assess off for everything have taken it on the chin. Guys like myself that went out and worked non stop building businesses have all been swiped way down the ladder.

I have to work twice as hard, twice as fast as my Father's generation (who had to do little except show up) to give my kids anything. And I know that my kids will be paying the tab.....

For arrogant and clueless government employees. There is a reason they tell you not to feed the animals in national parks. The same applies to government employees, they have been fed by others so long they have no clue what it takes to do it for themselves.

Collapse? Maybe not to the point to where we look like Somalia, but any sensible person knows that, for the working/middle class, the economic situation has been in steady decline for a few years. I see no slowing of that decline. Businesses continue to fail. People continue to be under or unemployed. Prices on staples like food and energy continue to rise. Some folks I know continue to do OK, but when I look at the whole picture, I see a continuing downward spiral with no solutions to get back to anywhere near where we were.

Look at all of the people collecting SSDI, welfare, section 8, some kind of government hand out. Go to a WalMart, ride through a "bad" section of town. Take a look at what the "American public" is becoming. Growing up, I recall my hometown having 1 or 2 bad neighborhoods. Now, the whole town is Section 8 housing, projects, gangs, drugs, crime, children with no direction on the streets all night long, large numbers of people doing nothing other than waiting on their check. I don't live there anymore. This has been happening in thousands of towns all over the country.

Collapse doesn't have to be a big bang. It can be a slow, steady decline in all things that made this country great.  When I look around and think about the logical conclusion to all that is happening, I have very little optimism that the future is anything to look forward to.

Agreed. I'm not sure most people feel we are becoming a third world nation. But to constantly have your nose rubbed in the poor state of the economy.......by a cop, has a way of pissing people off.

Seems as if the slow decline is becoming a quicker decline all the time. And we have idiots that want to run this country who are focused on gay marriage bans and other varied outdated 1950's social values. It's worthy of puking out the car window on our ride down the hill and nothing more.

Mike Gallagher was scratching his head on the radio last night as to why there is an all time high of bad sentiment towards cops in this country. Perhaps he should log on to arfcom and read shit like this.

The difference between the OP and the rest of us, is that the rest of us were further down the life road with a lot more to lose. We're doing fine, but I'm not ok with "fine" I want to do awesome again. I guess until I go to work for the government I will have to settle for less so our government overlords can have more, with our money.

nobody voted against the first rounds of QE because nobody noticed the very mild inflationary price increases .  Do a few more rounds to the point where more than those in poverty who need every dollar to survive get hurt by it and the people will vote to stop inflation.    having to go out to dinner a couple less times per month or switch to a few cheaper brands at the grocery store does not put 90 percent of the population in an angry mood.  having to worry about whether you can eat or afford gas to get to work does.    We have nowhere near the inflationary price increases necessary to get people into an uproar and do something about it yet.



 

How I love this thread and it's predecessors.

Arfcom makes CQ go by much faster.

This Friday for sure.

I will say this for Sherrick, he is not a supporter of public unions or unions in general and is all for there being cuts to their salaries and bennies. I believe he also has a business on the side.
I doubt there is going to be any large collapse of our economy either, just a slow and sometimes not so slow decline in the standard of living for most in this country. And the worse it gets, the more the people will scream for the government to do something, and everything they do will make things worse.
IMO, our side has lost. Start a thread here and ask about fixing social security and see what I mean. Even so called conservatives will scream about being cut off from that particular government titty. YMMV.

VictorGonzales - I agree with most everything you've said, but are you suggesting that we the people have a say in the operations of the Federal Reserve?  To be more specific, that we can tell the Federal Reserve whether it may or may not print more money?  The Federal Reserve is a privately owned and Congressionally chartered organization.  In theory, Congress has some oversight but in reality, the Fed has defied Congress.  Look at Rep. Sherman's (CA) questioning of the Ben Bernanke about where the TARP money went.  The Ben Bernanke flatly refused to divulge it and it was only after the passage of the Dodd-Frank Act was Congress able to learn that billions went to foreign banks.

I maintain that the serfs and indentured servants of this nation has no say whatsoever about the dealings of the Federal Reserve.  Unless someone owns some congress-critters, they won't have say either.

The collapsed has already happened in 2008. We still living in it. No recovery. No jobs. Only despair.



 

It didn't buy time. It bought an illusion that we have a healthy economy. We have more people unemployed than the Great Depression. We have the housing market price keep falling with no recovery in sight.



Wall Street doesn't represent Main Street. Main Street represent the real economy and people living in Main Street have been suffering since 2008.



 

I do, but not cat 6 speeds...yet.

First, what do you think the people will do? The electorate does not control the money supply. The unelected members of the Board of Govenors controls that.
Second, the people have in effect been voting for inflation since  the election of 1968 (all the conditions for chronic increases of the money supply were in place in 1971). Nixon won reelection despite having put the last pieces in place. No candidate for President has ever been asked to pledge to appoint members of the Board of Governors who will prevent unwarranted increases in the money supply. That's because, like you, most people do not understand the effect of those unwarranted increases in the money supply. The small increases each year do more damage than those you expect to cause an "uprising". Assuming there is such a storm of protest, do you really think that excessive increases in the money supply will stop? Dream on. There's money to be made playing this game.

You guys don't have to buy into the notion that the USD's days are numbered, but what you should do is entertain the possibility.

I've been preparing for it, financially speaking, since late '08 with no regrets.

The thing is, I can afford to be wrong. I respectfully submit that you Keynesian guys cannot.

Of course there is. Ask Soros or Gates or Buffet. The net worth has more than double in the past few years. The rich get richer and the middle class pay for it.

we vote for the people who decide who runs that shit. If we vote in leadership that wants to cut government spending rather than print money not much of these problems would exist.  When inflationary price increases start to become a real problem the people will vote to correct that problem. When we don't have ballooning government we don't inflate our currency to pay for it.  The people are not going to tolerate the taxes, interest rates, or inflationary price increases that are attached to our current path. Government will be cut including entitlements .  Maybe not today or tomorrow but soon .  There really is no other option unless the federal government becomes a dictatorship and kills dissenters.



There will always be some inflation but it will generally be according to economic and population growth in a smooth non damaging matter.  We have seen it get out of hand before and made an abrupt change in direction.  Now we have a new set of problems but we will fix those as well.  Unless you think America is willing by majority to be a poor nations who works mostly to serve the government.  I believe there will be a separation of the union before this nation dives full on into equal poverty.  





 

FWIW

The wife and I put in a short sale offer on a mountain property. In the four months we have been waiting on this property, three other properties we considered have sold after dropping $20K to $40K. Now we are not talking half a million dollar properties, these all started less than $200K (35 to 70 acre range).

I talked to the realtor on one of the ones above and she said they (realtors) have been warned that another wave of foreclosures is about to hit the market. If you can manage it, and want land/property this is the time to be shopping.

I think people like Sherrick13 and the "doom and gloomers" he cites are really, in some sense, arguing at cross purposes. Barring some worldwide disaster (nuke, asteroid, epidemic, etc), no, things are not going to go "Mad Max". But on the other hand every indication is that things are going to continue to stagger on getting worse before things start to get better.

The fact is that the shit has hit the fan for many Americans, and many people that expected to retire in the next ten years or so have taken such massive losses to their retirement funds that they will not be able to retire as planned, at the level of comfort they expected. Some may not be able to retire at all.

The thing that scares me is that while the world economy staggers on, it won't take an "extinction level event" asteroid to drive the world over the edge. We are vulnerable. A combination of crop failure, war and/or a pandemic could put us all in the hurt locker.

And in many national capitols, especially DC, there appears to be a lack of the courage needed to steer our economic bus away from the cliff and begin a recovery.

YMMV.

May God bless and keep our nation.

If we end up in a Mad Max world it's not like we'll be posting about it.

More likely is that each successive generation will have a lower and lower standard of living (which includes personal freedom) , barring a more radical change in our political system straight into a communist dictatorship (such as after a big terrorist attack with nukes).

I've listened to stories from my father about the communists rolling into Hungary in 1945 and taking everything my grandfather owned.  He had acre after acre of fruit trees, vineyards, cattle, grain and grazing land, etc. and he was stuffed into a factory.  I only mention this because there is still a lot of wealth out there for the gov't to plunder and cushion the fall so that it is a nice slow ride down into socialism.

Agree.  However, for the most part the elected representatives ignore the will of the people.  I know mine do (and while they're libtards, that's still no excuse).  Look at TARP.  The public was against it.  Congress voted it in.  Look at all ObamaCare.  I think most were against it, but Congress also voted it into law.  If we want to reach back further, look at the rescinding of the Glass-Steagall Act.  If the public knew what it did (prevent banks from speculating), they would have screamed no.  But Congress knew it could vote it away because the public is fat, dumb and happy.  My point is that the elected representatives including anyone sitting in the Whine House are bought and paid for by Wall Street.  Thus they ignore the electorate for their paymasters.  This includes both major parties (reference Glass-Steagall and TARP).

Returning to the issue of voting for QE-1, QE-2, the people have no say.  Congress which answers to Wall Street and not Main Street doesn't exercise tight controls over the Fed.  I know FDR (whom I dislike) did when he told the Fed. what loans would be made so that the war machinery could be paid.  But after FDR, I don't think any president attempted to exercise the influence that FDR did.



Agree.  However, most candidates and almost all elected officials speak with forked tongue.  

Changing topics, I don't want to see a Mad Max situation, but when hyper-inflation kicks in and people can't afford food, there will be food riots in the big cities.  This of course will turn ala Katrina into a general loot fest.  Some digression first. Back in the '60s SF used to regularly have mobs sweep down from the nearby welfare dependent or Section 8 neighborhood and loot the shopping center.  It was like the disruptive flash mobs of today (unlike the peaceful and silly heavily Caucasian flash mobs) without the benefit of Twitter.  Back then it was word of mouth.  Anyway, I don't see what will stop the same thing from happening when their dignity cards doesn't purchase half of what it used to.  They'll just take it.  After all, society owes it to them.  As it is reported in the media, it will spread nationwide.    Sadly, it will have been an engineered crisis which could have been prevented if TARP and all those stimulus bills weren't passed.  In response the law abiding citizens will demand for government to assert authority and .gov will be happy to declare martial law because the sheeple asked for it.  BTW, when the term "flash mob" is applied to a disruptive and seeming spontaneous situation, it is being used as a euphemism for "riot."  The media doesn't want to use "riot" because that causes alarm.  Call it what it is and don't dignify it with white shoe language.

I don't think the same scenario will happen in the countryside.  Neighbors know each other and are more willing to help one another.  Still, where ever you are, crime will be on the increase as desperate people are driven to desperate measures.  Read what Argentinean Arfcom member FerFal (Eduardo Aguirre) witnessed in his book, Surviving the Economic Collapse.  It is a model of what may happen here.  For those here who are skeptical, go to http://inflation.us and watch at their video Empty Store Shelves Coming to America.  What they document took place in a middle class white community in Massachusetts.  Imagine now if something of that magnitude happens in a major metropolitan centre.

I pray for our nation and I hope I'm wrong and that I'll have to eat my words.  It's not about ego and being smug about myself.  I'll be happy if I do eat my words so long as they are printed in edible and non-carcinogenic ink as I've more to lose than I would gain if things belly up here.

Maybe you should check the definition.





Words mean things.  

Actually yes, we did.   Represenative Republic.   The last 4 Presidents all have been Keynsian to a point.  The President appoints the Fed guys.  



Elect a President that will appoint Austrians to the Fed and watch shit change dramatically.

You really don't learn.  Do you?





How much of my family's income comes from the .gov?





Hint: less than 50%.  

Every realtor will tell you that.  It is a standard sales technique.  They know that if you think about it, then you are less likely to do it.  If in fact there are more foreclosures, then prices will drop.  You might be better off to wait but then NOBODY can predict the future.




Impeach Obama for the Good of the Forests.

If 10% unemployment and being able to support a large underclass with very little change in economic activity (about 10% at worst) and continued easy access to goods and services at affordable prices is a collapse.... I would hate to see a COLLAPSE.

Where you and I differ is the level of inflationary price increases that will happen before the people do something about it and how bad it will be. We have had horrible inflation and came out of it with flying colors.  We have a new set of issues but we will deal with them when we have to.  Right now it isn't as pressing of a matter as some believe.  We also have a fast submedia culture now which is  extremely unswayed by our leaders.  The brainwash years of the supportive media are gone and I think we will actually react harder and faster than in the past to fucked up government.  Just look how long it took for the people to hate Obama and the democrats.  That kind of awareness of actual causation has not been around for at least 50 years since people stopped caring about the details of government and got addicted to television. The internet is awaking the sleeping giant in my opinion.






I stack ammo, food and other things just in case but I certainly have faith in this country to correct this problem. I didn't have any faith when Obama got elected but the reaction has changed my outlook..... for now.





 

Increasing the money supply to an unwarranted degree is different than Keynesian economics. It has occurred even when the Federal  government was not attempting to create demand. (You will undoubtedly be surprised by what JMK said about inflation. His thoughts can be found in The Economic Consequences of the Peace.)
It will continue in part  because certain people obtain great wealth by creating money. Those people have far more influence on the government and the economy than the mass of voters could ever hope to exert under current circumstances. Nothing will change dramatically simply because the front men change. At most the game will continue at a lower level. It will not end absent changes which are beyond the imagination of the average American, especially those who do not recognize the nature and extent of the problem.

Ok, ok........not really a collapse but still pretty darn bad IMHO.

USA GDP growth last quarter was 1.3%.

I don't see GDP growth climbing without an improvement in manufacturing within the USA. We simply will not have a return to GDP growth back to the 5% or better that we need to generate enough tax revenue to eliminate the deficit and improve our national debt status.

Take out the govt spending [borrowed or tax dollars taken from the public]  and it's actually negative, especially if you factor in all the different types of welfare payments.

People in Rome swore up and down that the Empire would last forever, up until they woke up to the barbarians pillaging.

Saying that we aren't going to "collapse" because we haven't yet is just plain idiotic.  Believing the course we're on is not going to lead to bad things happening is idiotic and myopic.  "It doesn't matter how many stupid things we do... this is America!  RAH RAH RAH!" doesn't cut the mustard.

Investment Adviser Peter Schiff throws in is two centavos right Here.

Trying to predict a date for something like that is very difficult. Many factors can influence when something happens. It might be another 10 years, 10 weeks, or 10 months. Who knows what could happen to cause a catastrophic collapse. No one will deny though that we have created an environment where it's possible. How likely or when it will happen is nearly impossible to predict.

I can say with a 50% chance of success that it will happen. I can also predict with a 50% chance of success it won't.  

+1, always amuses me to see folks buy into these GDP #'s,  I like to compare it to shoving a tube up your ass and seeing how long you can live off what your sucking.

Funny thread.

As soon as our Government owed money we were collapsed and bankrupt.

All we are doing now is filling sandbags to block the rising water and pretending like everything is ok.

Problem is, we are gonna run outta sandbags.

We have, amazingly and foolishly, retained a standard of living beyond our means for many yrs. When it finally collapses it's gonna fall hard.

We are talking immediate collapse.  I am not saying that the US isn't in slow decline or might collapse 50-100 years from now.





Did you even read the OP?  The WHOLE POINT of the original topic and this is the fact that collapse is MONTHS away.

You do realize our debt on Jan 1st 1791 was over $75,000,000?



Don't you?





Are you saying our economy has NEVER been NOT in a state of collapse?

remove the government spending which is far less efficient than the private sector and GDP would be replace with private sector growth making GDP even higher.  The government doesn't prop up the economy or GDP with it's spending. It holds us down.



 

I was wrong. I'll admit it. I am surprised that the system has withstood the level of uncertainty and heavy handed intervention. I am not buying PMs anymore and everytime the market drops I am buying stocks.

g


dude, the food chain is crumbling, it just hasn't trickled up to you yet.

I used to be able to sell 2, 3, or atleast 1 furnace a week.  now I cant even get people fix their furnace, and they wanna fight me tooth and nail over a $90.00 dollar service call fee to tell them whats wrong with it.

What they want is for me to come out, tell them whats wrong with it and then they can go to home depot for the part they need or go on the internet.

Then they have the audacity to either A. cancel the check  or B. call the shop and curse me up and down saying how I did this and did that, got dirt on the carpet etc. and they shouldn't have to pay the service call.

Or C. BBB and start a complaint so that we have to give them a refund to shut them up.

Its sickening.  

That being said, I enjoy reading your posts and hope you are right.

 

No American President will appoint a hardcore Austrian. Alan Greenspan was the last laissiez faire market guy. And he would support the economy to make his boss look good. The United States President has too much invested in the perceived success of the American economy not to meddle.

IF this quotation which I happened to read on the innernet today is accurate*, George Soros is among the "doom and gloomers":

"Financial markets are driving the world towards another Great Depression with incalculable political consequences."
It is possible that Mr. Soros has better information than Arfcom GD posters. In fact, it would seem likely that he does.


* Since I'm not among Mr. Soros' confidantes, I have no idea whether the quote is accurate.

Hahahaha...

You know that the general consensus in the Austrian School is for the abolition of the central banks and the fractional-reserve banking system, advocating that the market should choose what is used as money.

What else... which Presidential candidate do you think will "appoint Austrians" to the Board of Governors of the FRB? The only candidate I know of talking about Austrian economics is Ron Paul. Do the other candidates even know what it means?

Are you going to be a Paulbot now? Start shouting End the Fed?

Way to go, Sherrick!  Dow down 205 points!  Damn, people should start investing based on your advice.

I'll go ahead and pour some haterade all over this thread.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=195324

The main point seems to be that the "doom and gloomers" keep putting forth the same scenario, when apparently nothing has changed.  Everytime we reach a crisis point, the ponzi is raised to yet another power.  Capacity for this bullshit doesn't go on forever, and may be ending as I write this.

No I didn't, show me. Then ,please, show me when that was paid off and at what rate it was paid off. Then compare that to today's debacle.

Then show me when we were out of debt and others owed us.

Tell me how we will pay off our current debt with no manufacturing base, no pulp companies, and buying steel from other countries?

You're sailing a river in Eqypt.

I don't remember you posting back in 2008-09 but thanks for the post. But there isn't a single doomer than will even say the first part of what you said.





And you make a good point. Our economy not only has survived. It has survived what has occured SINCE 2008. That alone should show you how strong and resilent it is.





I said it in late 2008 and I'll say it again. The economy survived Carter, it will survive Obama.

It sounds like you are operating under the assumption that for the US economy to survive the US Federal .gov debt has to be paid off in full by a certain date. That is a false assumption.   It is most definately a false assumption that .gov debt = economic collapse.  



BTW, do your own research on our early debt. It isn't hard to find and you learn more if you find it yourself.