User Panel
Quoted:
OK, you just used the example of "I don't want to be in a store with a Great Dane. One stole my sandwich once." and referred to the Dane as a "beast". While I am not a fan of every fucking thing under the sun becoming some sort of "service animal"...at all... and I understand the abuse of the system that is happening, I would be very weary of using your personal preferences to make these decisions in a professional capacity. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. View Quote Breeds hold no bearing, but only dogs and in some cases horses are defined as service animals.The animal can can be self trained to perform disability assistance tasks and self identified. Two questions may be asked by employers of any covered entity - one that makes goods or services available to the public. If the answers to those questions meet the requirements, barring, excluding or restricting access in any way unless it fundamentally alters the nature of the business, opens the business to action spurred by a complaint to the DOJ or state civil rights bodies, The cost of dealing with a complaint isn't trivial, even when no probable cause is found from the investigation. The law is written in a way that easily allows owners to answer both questions In a way which places the onus on employees and businesses to make determinations from limited information. Which, if wrong, can cost serious money. Which is why most entities make no attempt to combat the abuse of access - the juice ain't worth the squeeze. |
|
Quoted:
If you’re a medical professional and have to deal with this, you seriously need to educate yourself. You don’t have to approve of anything, but you owe it to your patients to know what the hell the law is and what the various categories of animal are, and what an ESA letter is vs a service dog. You should be embarrassed about your willful ignorance. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: You provide a letter over your signature. The problem is that professionals are signing off on untrained animals- chickens, ferrets, you name it. I’m not participating in this lunacy. Wiki says it simply: A service dog is a term used in the USA to refer to any type of assistance dog specifically trained to help people who have disabilities, such as visual impairment, hearing impairments, mental disorders, seizures, mobility impairment, and diabetes. I understand what you are saying. I know the law well enough to say I am not likely to see someone who really needs either a service or emotional support animal so you can drop your ethical concerns. |
|
Quoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. View Quote But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren’t required for his needs. |
|
Quoted:
I can sign off based on the person’s need. I am not an animal trainer, You guys are telling me the mastiff is sweet. Fine. I accept your experience. But I don’t want to give service dog status to some untrained animal or really any animal so you can then fly with it or go to a restaurant. Nobody can challenge service dog status. I’m not giving somebody cover for that. View Quote |
|
I think the OP is full of his own self-importance. OP subjectively decided that a Mastiff mix is not a suitable service dog.
I submit that blacks and gays are unsuitable to own service dogs. That is my professional opinion. Prove me wrong. |
|
Quoted:
Verifying there is a medical or rehabilitative need for the animal. "Signing off" on the person, not the animal. But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren't required for his needs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
@Terlinguachili If someone with your "approval" got kicked out of a restaurant with their "service" animal, would the restaurant be in violation of ADA laws? Edit: I've worked multiple cases of the above. I've never heard of someone "signing off" on legitimate service animal certifications until your post today. But I reserve the discretion to affix my signature to anything like this. A chicken or bull mastiff weren't required for his needs. |
|
Quoted:
I think the OP is full of his own self-importance. OP subjectively decided that a Mastiff mix is not a suitable service dog. I submit that blacks and gays are unsuitable to own service dogs. That is my professional opinion. Prove me wrong. View Quote |
|
|
I'm really confused because there is no such thing as a service dog license at least Federally.
Mike |
|
|
Quoted:
Exactly. I don’t want to put a public accommodation or conveyance in that position. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can sign off based on the person’s need. I am not an animal trainer, You guys are telling me the mastiff is sweet. Fine. I accept your experience. But I don’t want to give service dog status to some untrained animal or really any animal so you can then fly with it or go to a restaurant. Nobody can challenge service dog status. I’m not giving somebody cover for that. Edit fixed typos. His point is accurate. It’s dangerous to challenge a person with an animal that they are claiming is a service animal. Lawsuits are a very real threat. ETA: It’s common to have someone try to pass off a support dog as a service dog. I don’t want to lose my job over being wrong. This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! |
|
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/10195/863A37EE-1AB5-45E9-98A9-A812584D938C_jpeg-860669.JPG Max says you need to chill. View Quote |
|
Since it sounds like the OP refused to sign off on a letter that said the PERSON needed a emotional support animal, I'm good with that.
There's really no need for it in the first place, unless the person has some other angle, like getting an agency to pay for a pet/ESA or something like that. |
|
View Quote 10% will see the drool. |
|
Quoted:
Bimba https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/234818/1346141f-8ec2-4545-ba25-09e9013010f7_zpscdd11a89-605281.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
wait, is bimba a dog or a woman? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/234818/1346141f-8ec2-4545-ba25-09e9013010f7_zpscdd11a89-605281.jpg |
|
Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...." 10% will see the drool. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. Attached File |
|
Ah, so OP is that guy who enables people to have pets in apartment buildings that don't allow pets without medical approval.
That's cool I guess. |
|
Quoted: Honestly, I'm over the whole damned service dog thing. Out of the gazillion people I know that have their dog licensed, only 1 truly needs it, he lost his wife and his son, he's a fucking mess and has a super obedient friendly mini pinscher with him 24/7. I don't fault you for not granting a mastiff or any other dog. View Quote |
|
I've read through this and I still don't understand what the OP is on about.
What is your profession OP? Doctor? Shrink? DMV clerk? I'm so confused... |
|
Due to a complication with my shoulder, I do have a prescription for a Service dog, and my bullmastiff was an amazing service dog.
She would alert if I was about to pass out and was trained to physically move me if I passed out somewhere that was unsafe |
|
Quoted:
Due to a complication with my shoulder, I do have a prescription for a Service dog, and my bullmastiff was an amazing service dog. She would alert if I was about to pass out and was trained to physically move me if I passed out somewhere that was unsafe View Quote This thread is weird. |
|
|
Quoted:
Just curious, could you sign off if it was a Great Dane? I'm a Verizon installer so I get to deal with a lot of different breeds. Probably dealt with about 15 mastiffs, only 1 was shady, not aggressive but so nervous I'm sure it would bite if it felt cornered. I've dealt with probably 50 Great Danes, haven't found a bad one yet, but my god will their bark scare you. They're fun dogs, face usually planted right by mine while I am working. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Seeing that I DO pass out if I move my shoulder wrong, the doctor thought it was a good idea. Also, had is past tense, which is wrong, it's never going to stop being an issue. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
You got a narcalepsy service animal because you had shoulder problems? This thread is weird. Also, had is past tense, which is wrong, it's never going to stop being an issue. Attached File |
|
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Just a bit https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG |
|
Quoted:
The problem that I've run into, is that being right in today's world doesn't mean you win. And being sued isn't the only way they can make your life hard. My crew had a miscommunication with a lady about her dog (I still to this day don't know if it was legit service dog or not). She called every level of bosses we had all the way up to the mayor and omsbudsman twice a day, every day for a month. This was before Facebook but I'm sure it would be even worse today. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. |
|
Quoted:
Just a bit https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
90% of people seeing this will "AAAWWWWWWWWW...."
10% will see the drool. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/67413/21A31454-3483-4757-9FE0-46F40B9E6ECE_jpeg-861207.JPG SlobberDoodle.. |
|
Quoted:
I touched on this earlier - a discrimination complaint to the state CRC averages about seven grand to defend, from complaint to no probable cause finding. If for some reason we move past NPC, which has occurred only twice in my 20 years running this show, it went @ $25k both times and we prevailed. DOJ interaction slightly less costly, but most complaints move through the state so I've only experienced one. But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. |
|
I think my Boxer (mastiff descendant) would be a great service dog
|
|
|
Quoted:
I went back and read your previous post I had missed. Bingo. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: People can (and do) sue over anything and everything. We (all of us) practice some level of risk assessment daily. We are constantly doing and saying things that open us up to complaints or lawsuits. We balance everything out and decide on a course of action. The law clearly gives us the legal ability to screen ADA service animals. Can any of the folks worrying about service dogs cite a statistically relevant number of cases (or even any case) where the feds went after someone for asking the ADA questions??? This really seems like an overblown issue. First off, since ONLY dogs and miniature horses are ADA protected service animals, you know immediately that any other species is NOT a service animal just by observation. No questions needed. Secondly, the law specifically and clearly gives you to ability to ask the questions. Third, if an animal is actually a problem (out of control or not housebroken), they can be kicked out EVEN IF IT'S A LEGITIMATE SERVICE ANIMAL! But since a mere complaint has seven large attached to it, as I stated above, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. I still deal with a complaint or two a year. It's a cost of doing business. It's by far the most common discrimination complaint filed. Similar to ACAA, if a licensed mental health professional is willing to certify the need, that's all that's required. Discriminating once the requirement of the law is met is a sure way to put your ass in a sling. But it's easy for folks who have no skin in the game, zero experience and at best a superficial understanding of the legal landscape to agitate for actions which have no consequence...for them. Peeps in my industry who took more aggressive stances got to defend a much larger number of complaints, defend an untenable position and in the end, were lucky to get off with consent decrees. There's no upside and huge liability - so there's no inducement to ferret out the abuse. If you end up wrong, willful and malicious discrimination is not what you want to face. |
|
|
APD: Owner bit by 100-pound mastiff, dog taken by animal control. Serious injuries View Quote |
|
View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: APD: Owner bit by 100-pound mastiff, dog taken by animal control. Serious injuries |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.