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They're fun, and cheap to feed
I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters |
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I sell a lot of SUB-2000s. I have yet to sell a Ruger PCC.
I have a SUB sitting at my feet now, very quiet w/ my large Panic Stamp can. |
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The KelTec is a cheap, janky, and unreliable piece of junk. It's also surprisingly unpleasant to shoot.
The Ruger is reliable, accurate, comfortable, and it has a pretty good trigger, but it's so doggone heavy that it's a little extra iffy to make the compromises of a rifle size PCC. The Herny is kind of expensive and completely unproven. I have owned a Sub2000, I currently own a Ruger PCC, and I've also had a CZ Scorpion and a CMMG Banshee. I have been the happiest with the Ruger and the CMMG. 9mm PCCs are a lot of fun, but the compromises are there. |
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AP5 all day. Honest Outlaw (YouTuber) had a terrible experience with the Homesteader and found it to be an unreliable POS.
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Quoted: AP5 all day. Honest Outlaw (YouTuber) had a terrible experience with the Homesteader and found it to be an unreliable POS. View Quote Yup. MP types are miles better than these cheap, fugly PCCs. I've got HKs, but would buy the Turkish versions in a heartbeat over the options posted in the OP. Still... his thread, his preferences. |
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Built one with a New Frontier Glock mag lower with a side charging New Frontier upper.
I used a 16” barrel. It’s great fun. |
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They are fun, but not the best tool for most jobs.
A kel-tec for $240 is not bad just to get into it. They usually work. Mine was a little finicky with different ammo. I gave it to my son and got a Ruger. It's a more solid gun and I like the upgrade. |
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Quoted: I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible. The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9HqsKS/FPC.jpg View Quote These are very cool, I already have M&P mags but no Glock mags... Looking into it now. |
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No. I like 9mm guns. PCC, Altor single shot, revolvers, derringers, etc.
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I like my ruger pc carbine. Should have picked up a charger when I had the chance. No reason not to have them in a collection. They are fun to shoot
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If the pistol brace ban gets rescinded, I’m getting either an MP5 clone or a Stribog.
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Quoted: I bought a S&W FPC because I have a few M&P pistols, and the mags are compatible. The folding feature makes for a neat stampless backpack gun. Practically speaking though, it's basically a range toy. I would never pick it over an AR for home defense. https://i.postimg.cc/Wb9HqsKS/FPC.jpg View Quote At some point I hope to get one of these as a get-home-carbine. It would definitely not supplant a real AR for HD though… I do like the mag compatibility with my preferred carry choices, the M&P series. |
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Quoted: I have moved almost all my semiautos from .40 to 9mm and love the round. I have a 9mm can (Rex Silentium MG7) that ironically I only use on 357 rifles and AR's... I have plenty of AR's, bolt actions, lever actions, revolvers, shotguns, etc. I don't have a single PCC (unless you count a Ruger 77/357 or Marlin 1894's). I'm heavily contemplating my next purchase being one. It has to be threaded 1/2-28. Here is what I'm looking at: Sub2000, currently $240 after rebate. I've heard it's all plastic but some people seem to love them: https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/Untitledfff.jpg Ruger PCC with the Magpul Backpacker Stock. Seems better than the Sub 2000 but 3 times as expensive ($640): https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/e317c726b792aa0c9945f9202aac2e36.jpg Henry Homesteader. Doesn't break down, old school, but awesome ($700)! https://gun.deals/sites/default/files/Screenshot%202023-08-27%20at%2017.46.49.png View Quote Get a USW-A1 and thank me later. |
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Quoted: They're fun, and cheap to feed I don't see any tactical value of one , but they're fun, and that might be all that matters View Quote Under 100yds, they are quite effective. They are also handy in an urban environment. Paired with a G17 or G19, you have 2 weapons, one magazine, one ammunition. There are tons of youtube videos of 100yd+ shots penetrating ballistic gel. |
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I have a Ruger Pc9, reliable and accurate, heavy for no real reason and I have the free float version. I bought it early when they were around $500. I don't shoot it but I won't get rid of it for some reason.
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Of the three that you posted, I'd choose the Ruger, not a fan of KT or Henry. PCCs are great fun to shoot (and typically suppress much better than rifle cartridges and are cheaper to shoot) and while that's certainly enough reasons on their own to buy one, I don't feel under-gunned with one as a potential defensive rifle. Yeah, more criminals seem to be wearing body armor, but even with armor, once rounds start flying it seems to deter all but the most determined, or stupid. With steel plates being cheap you ought to be training to make alternative shots anyways. I can't recall any EMS calls off the top of my head where the attackers voluntarily stuck around once shots were fired, whether it was a .22 pistol or something larger. There are certainly outliers, ex. it wouldn't be my first choice if I lived in the hood, ran a drug house and was worried about rival gangs or was dumb enough to plan on shooting it out with the cops, but do your risk assessments and go from there. Not everything has to be whiz-bang tactical, HSLD; ex., when I'm fishing or kayaking I usually carry a S&W 642 with the first round often being a shotshell (water moccasins are a thing around much of SC).
ETA- I'd really like to have a PSA AK-V, AR-V or Glock mag AR (who am I kidding, I want all three. ) |
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I’ve got a Ruger PCC and I love it. It’s a little heavy but I still like it. I’ve gotten pretty good with it now and it’s graduated to the house HD gun.
Accurate, reliable and built like a tank it’s a perfect companion for my G17. I’m not sure why everyone puts down a PCC for a HD gun. I’ve no desire to blow out everyone’s eardrums including my Grandkids that stay with us a lot. People rely on a 9mm pistol for HD, why not a PCC??? |
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The Kel-Tec shoots well + it fits nicely when folded in those hotel room safes. Great travel carbine.
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They have a lot of utility for training. You can train rifle steel at much safer distances, and not damage your steel. It is nice to bring a single type of ammo to the range. I actually think Henry would have sold more of a lever gun in 9mm that took Glock mags, than they will the semi version. It has a ton of competition, like Beretta, Ruger, etc, etc.
The Keltec is awesome for the price. They are almost cheaper today than when I purchased one 20 years ago. I wouldn't buy one today. I'd build an AR 9mm upper before I bought a dedicated carbine, other than something like the APS. Sig has a pretty sick AR based PCC, but the price is wonky. |
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Unpopular opinion but I prefer the Ruger to the MP5.
I'll give that the MP5 recoil is better and it's far cooler, but the dollar-to-fun ratio goes to the Ruger if you can get a decent deal. If I was fighting with it I suspect I'd take an MP5, but ARs exist so I probably wouldn't. I had a Keltec years ago, it was fun. No hate toward it, but the Ruger feels more solid and I prefer to not have the handle reciprocating under my jaw. I do wish Ruger would sell their rail to the aftermarket |
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I don't do much hog hunting at night as I used to.
But whenever I would see one lone boar by itself out in the open my fun thing to do was to take my 9 mm A.R., which has an inexpensive Flir PTS 233 on top and see just how close I could get to it before I couldn't stand it and had to pull the trigger. That was the only thing to being an adrenaline junkie that I've ever tried. Anyway, closest one ever approached before I knew I was about to get eaten to death was 27 steps. Neck shot and it dropped. Pitch black dark with no moon, and I could see it moving with my unaided eye. Anyway, I've shot dozens of large hogs with that 9 mm carbine and it does a number on them. Routinely shot them up to 100 yards, just to avoid making a lot of unnecessary noise when there were other hogs way off in the distance. So I wouldn't totally discount it for home defense. But that's just me personally. |
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Op buy the one you like. Life's short. I've shot both the Ruger and the Sub2k. I like them both. The ass hat up top who said they don't run well you know what they say about opinions. It's that or I got lucky approximately 7000 times out of the gen 2 9mm without 1 yes 1 hickup , FTF or FTE. That's a lot of luck.
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Quoted: And I went with a Banshee. I love that thing! View Quote Ditto. To me, a 9mm PCC is a training gun. Something that has the same manual of arms as my ARs but shoots cheaper ammo. None of the OP guns have the same manual of arms, but the Banshee that takes the (modified internals) PMags does. Yes, it costs A LOT MORE than OP options but for the purpose I seek it is ideal. Suppressed, I can run that thing quick and quiet without bothering anybody. Of course, a S&W M&P 15-22 fits the bill as well (and runs even cheaper/quieter with a rimfire can on it). The difference is that a 9mm PCC with premium defensive ammo is WORLDS better than either a 9mm pistol or a 22 carbine, but still falls WELL SHORT of a true AR in .223 or .300 BLK. With our local IDPA-style club PCC is a different division than rimfire rifle. Ironically, I run the Banshee the same speed (or sometimes a tad faster) than my rimfire rifles. That RDB action is a marked improvement over the straight-blowback actions of old. Yes, I have an old Olympic Arms blowback 9mm PCC but it rarely gets much range time now that the Banshee is in the stable. OP really needs to decide what the mission for this piece of hardware is. If it is a backpack or "get home" gun, then maybe his options are valid. If the intent is to SBR it and use it as a training/suppressed gun then the Banshee is king (unless you go for the even pricier roller-delayed action route). Point is, there's no free lunch. Every decision has tradeoffs. Sometimes those trade-offs are money, other times it is having to learn multiple manuals-of-arms. A very personal decision. |
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Quoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/79569/PXL_20221017_193147748_2_jpg-2566489__2_-2936886.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/79569/PXL_20210527_194532321_jpg-2176790__2__j-2936887.JPG View Quote That's a lot of wtf in one post |
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Have never owned one, son has a scorpion and it is fun to shoot but IMO, even though you get more velocity, it still just a big pistol.
If I'm lugging around the size and weight of a short rifle, I want it to do short rifle things... |
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Quoted: The KelTec is a cheap, janky, and unreliable piece of junk. It's also surprisingly unpleasant to shoot. The Ruger is reliable, accurate, comfortable, and it has a pretty good trigger, but it's so doggone heavy that it's a little extra iffy to make the compromises of a rifle size PCC. The Herny is kind of expensive and completely unproven. I have owned a Sub2000, I currently own a Ruger PCC, and I've also had a CZ Scorpion and a CMMG Banshee. I have been the happiest with the Ruger and the CMMG. 9mm PCCs are a lot of fun, but the compromises are there. View Quote I have a great time w/ my SUB, it's very quiet w/ my can & 147 grn WWB, and runs steel out of ETS mags my Gen 5 Glock 26 can't manage. So it's at least more reliable than my Gen 5 Glock 26. It does leave a bruise after popping paper at 100 yds, but that's b/c it's so light. |
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I wouldn’t say it’s a stupid idea, but it makes more sense when the cartridge you’re chambering benefits from a longer barrel length. You don’t get that much more from a longer barrel with 9mm, so it’s really about sight radius, mag compatibility, and ease of use.
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Rereading the OP's post, I see no mention of "philosophy of use" (to steal the most verbose guntuber's catchphrase), simply that he wanted one. That's a perfectly valid reason to buy a gun in my book- find whatever you like and go for it.
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I have 2.5 9mm pcc’s I like them a lot.
Colt 10.5,Cz scorpion , both sbr’s and a 16” upper that will soon be on a 9 mm Glock mag lower. Very hand and easy to shoot, much less muzzle blast and cheaper to shoot. I can have a novice running a plate rack in 10 minutes, try that with a hand gun. I see no problem with a 147 jhp out of a 8-10” barrel, I’m not overly worried about hit teams with full body armor coming in my house. |
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Quoted: These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a day or two. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Scorpion at like $670 right now is awesome Or AP5 @ $900 These were a lot more appetizing with a brace... I just know I would have to SBR it within a day or two. Just put a brace on it.. |
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I have a Keltec Sub2000 gen 2 and I like it a lot.
Granted, mine has quite a few Mcarbo upgrades but it shoots nice. Despite being a direct blowback design, I don't think it has a lot of recoil. The only recoil mitigation I have is the rubber ring Mcarbo sells that goes in the buffer tube. I have heard good things about the Ruger PCC, so that might be a good option but I haven't personally shot one. I would have no problems using my sub2000 as a home defense gun but I generally use it when I go on motorcycle rides. |
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The Henry Homesteader got a bad review from Honest outlaw who showed it malfunctioning
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Imo you should add the Keltec SUB CQB to that list if your are actually considering a SUB2000.
I own an Evo with just about everything from HBI and love it, it will be even better when my R9 clears. |
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I have and love a JP GMR-15. I shoot it at "pistol matches" to rustle jimmies.
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Quoted: I really like my GHM9 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/361826/20230814_151531_jpg-2937014.JPG View Quote YES! Well done |
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