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Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:43:01 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
The question is...does it matter?

Wootz/Damascus and tamahagane were the "magic sword steels" of their time periods because everything else sucked ass.  Just look up how the smiths made tamahagane some time. It's not a very good process.

But the smiths were geniuses and skilled craftsmen. They figured out how to make something superb (compared to everything else) out of the raw sewage they had available. Bloomery iron just doesn't cut it in comparison, so to speak. And when everyone else was using shitty bloomery iron, if you had the secret of Crom...er, crucible steel, your shit was magic, i.e. Ulfberht.

Today, however, any decent factory made steel is far superior to what they had in history. A monolithic piece of good tool steel, produced in a modern foundry without any defects, then machined into profile (not hammered), and differentially hardened, quenched, and tempered to exacting temperatures is better than anything produced by any smith in history.

So, when you are buying a hand forged item, you are settling for an inherently inferior product. What you are doing is celebrating the skill of the smith, the beauty of the work, and the entire amazing process, which is fantastic and should be encouraged. And it's very likely that your blade will do anything and everything you actually need it to do.

If I had to actually go out and kill people and defend my life with it though, I'm going to skip the pretty stuff and go with the modern made things. Pretty sure places like Albion produce blades like I described.

Since that will never be the case, and to address the original question, if you are buying a modern Damascus blade, just shop around a bit. Usually, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap, get garbage. If you find something you want to buy, a quick web search usually turns up reviews, praise, problems, etc on multiple blade forums, so you can be better informed before spending money.

In all likelihood, unless you are a Tier 1 commando warrior or out playing in some live steel group, whatever you buy will do what you want it to do, which is look pretty and cut open your boxes or deer bellies.

Just some opinions I'm sure will get attacked by any smiths on the boards who are convinced they make the best magic blades in the world.
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It hasn’t been lost it’s just a type of crucible steel. Man at arms reforged has done traditional Damascus steel. Modern steels are just better and modern pattern-welded steels are more predictable and homogenous. Nowadays they are more for aesthetics than for any actual functionality. They also take some skill and thus show off a smiths ability.
No,  Rodent is right.  Wootz Damascus process has been lost.  There is an hour long U-tube vid on it.
The question is...does it matter?

Wootz/Damascus and tamahagane were the "magic sword steels" of their time periods because everything else sucked ass.  Just look up how the smiths made tamahagane some time. It's not a very good process.

But the smiths were geniuses and skilled craftsmen. They figured out how to make something superb (compared to everything else) out of the raw sewage they had available. Bloomery iron just doesn't cut it in comparison, so to speak. And when everyone else was using shitty bloomery iron, if you had the secret of Crom...er, crucible steel, your shit was magic, i.e. Ulfberht.

Today, however, any decent factory made steel is far superior to what they had in history. A monolithic piece of good tool steel, produced in a modern foundry without any defects, then machined into profile (not hammered), and differentially hardened, quenched, and tempered to exacting temperatures is better than anything produced by any smith in history.

So, when you are buying a hand forged item, you are settling for an inherently inferior product. What you are doing is celebrating the skill of the smith, the beauty of the work, and the entire amazing process, which is fantastic and should be encouraged. And it's very likely that your blade will do anything and everything you actually need it to do.

If I had to actually go out and kill people and defend my life with it though, I'm going to skip the pretty stuff and go with the modern made things. Pretty sure places like Albion produce blades like I described.

Since that will never be the case, and to address the original question, if you are buying a modern Damascus blade, just shop around a bit. Usually, you get what you pay for. Buy cheap, get garbage. If you find something you want to buy, a quick web search usually turns up reviews, praise, problems, etc on multiple blade forums, so you can be better informed before spending money.

In all likelihood, unless you are a Tier 1 commando warrior or out playing in some live steel group, whatever you buy will do what you want it to do, which is look pretty and cut open your boxes or deer bellies.

Just some opinions I'm sure will get attacked by any smiths on the boards who are convinced they make the best magic blades in the world.
Actually, this is a pretty good post.

Every time there’s a thread on Damascus there’s always got to be autists screeching “ActcHulY, tHereS nO damaScuS, rEaL daMasCus iS lOst to hIstOry!”

It’s like arguing that you don’t have an ar15 unless it was birthed from the loins of Eugene Stoner in an ArmaLite factory. It’s a silly, pedantic argument that completely ignores what OP is actually asking.

OP, there’s plenty of legitimate Smith’s out there who can make you whatever you want. Shoot, there are some posting in this very thread.

Personally, I’ve given it up, but here is the last knife I made, sadly lost at a Boy Scout camp a few years ago;

Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:48:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:49:27 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Isn't there a member here by the username, Damascus_Knife_Maker or something like that?
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yeah--he does gorgeous work.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:52:53 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
I would only believe a blade is true Damascus steel if it came wrapped in a Corinthian leather scabbard.
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.
Kindly tell us what makes a piece of leather "Corinthian."

Is the scabbard supposed to be made from a 1970s Chrysler seat cover?
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:57:48 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
True Damascus steel is not only a method, it's also a type of ore only found in one region of the world. Trying to reproduce it without that ore, and without the tools and techniques of the time won't give you a true Damascus steel.

But does the knife buyer who's looking for blade with a layered pattern really care? Buy a quality pattern welded "damascus" made by a known quality smith and be happy. Leave the rest for the autists.
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They ran out of the Spice. Mine went kaput. No more Spice.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 6:58:57 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
What if it's an Eskimo?
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And quenched by being thrust into the bodies of Nubian slaves?
That won't work. A body won't bring the temp of the steel down quick enough to allow proper hardening to take place.
What if it's an Eskimo?
Lost, lol.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:01:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Is a Frankfurter a Frankfurter if it didn’t come from Frankfurt? Don’t get me started on Hamburgers.??
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:05:53 PM EDT
[#8]
I think the “Damascus” 1911 slides look cool.

Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:09:57 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:

My real opinion is that we need a precise vocabulary to separate and discriminate the different ideas about Damascus expressed in the thread.

When I saw the title I expected a discussion on old wound wire gun barrels.

Another variation on the idea.
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Agree whole heartedly on that point.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:11:12 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
The best pattern welded Damascus that I've seen seen come out in decades is made by Julian Antunes out of Brazil. This young man is quite the artist.

Julian Antunes Instagram

<a href="https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg</a>" >[url]https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg">https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg">[url=https://postimg.cc/VdXX0QKZ]https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg
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He is amazing and I hate him for it  Because I wish I'd started at as early an age as he did!
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:13:27 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
I think the "Damascus" 1911 slides look cool.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/bb/16/0cbb1648dca0da4ad40ecee5990b0485.jpg
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One of these days I want to make a pattern welded glock slide just to make heads explode
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:15:34 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
these days, pattern welding of any sort is a cosmetic fetish that weakens a blade.
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Just like hamon!

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:17:12 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
.
Kindly tell us what makes a piece of leather "Corinthian."

Is the scabbard supposed to be made from a 1970s Chrysler seat cover?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I would only believe a blade is true Damascus steel if it came wrapped in a Corinthian leather scabbard.
.
Kindly tell us what makes a piece of leather "Corinthian."

Is the scabbard supposed to be made from a 1970s Chrysler seat cover?
Yup, you totally missed that joke @kar98k
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:29:41 PM EDT
[#14]
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Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:35:34 PM EDT
[#15]


You are right though. There's waaaaay more opportunity to fuck things up and best case is something that performs simply on par with the original alloy.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 7:56:45 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
I would only believe a blade is true Damascus steel if it came wrapped in a Corinthian leather scabbard.
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I can tell that you are a man of fine taste!

Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
The best pattern welded Damascus that I've seen come out in decades is made by Julian Antunes out of Brazil. This young man is quite the artist.

Julian Antunes Instagram

https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/15jBTywS/IMG-3667.jpg
View Quote
Josh Prince puts out some wild stuff as well.
Not quite that detailed. He is a bit more.....eccentric.

Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:11:58 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Isn't there a member here by the username, Damascus_Knife_Maker or something like that?
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That underscore guy is a real asshole.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:19:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:19:12 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
What if it’s an Eskimo?
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Quoted:
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Quoted:

And quenched by being thrust into the bodies of Nubian slaves?
That won't work. A body won't bring the temp of the steel down quick enough to allow proper hardening to take place.
What if it’s an Eskimo?
Or a penguin?
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:22:31 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
What if it’s an Eskimo?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

And quenched by being thrust into the bodies of Nubian slaves?
That won't work. A body won't bring the temp of the steel down quick enough to allow proper hardening to take place.
What if it’s an Eskimo?
Lol.  That sounds like something Ken M would say.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:23:22 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Almost true, they have figured it out but it’s still very difficult to make. I know this video is long but it’s worth it.

Anything touted as Damascus steel today just isn’t.
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Technically, no one has made any Damascus steel for at least a century. The technique has been lost to history.

If people were completely honest, modern attempts at reproductions would be called "pattern-welded" steel or something.
Almost true, they have figured it out but it’s still very difficult to make. I know this video is long but it’s worth it.

Anything touted as Damascus steel today just isn’t.
I watched that very video. VERY interesting. What we see labeled as "Damascus" is not. It's pattern welded. That's it.

Real Damascus is really damn interesting.
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:27:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:38:43 PM EDT
[#24]
If it's cheap it's probably crap.

Stick to well known names
Link Posted: 11/28/2019 11:56:36 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

Josh Prince puts out some wild stuff as well.
Not quite that detailed. He is a bit more.....eccentric.

https://i.imgur.com/ZJVrDQY.jpg
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I have two rough forged blades of his on my end table we're collaborating on
Link Posted: 11/29/2019 12:47:05 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I have two rough forged blades of his on my end table we're collaborating on
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Quoted:

Josh Prince puts out some wild stuff as well.
Not quite that detailed. He is a bit more.....eccentric.

https://i.imgur.com/ZJVrDQY.jpg
I have two rough forged blades of his on my end table we're collaborating on
I have a billet sitting on my work bench he and I made. Haven’t decided what to do with it yet. Josh is good people. I enjoy getting to have lunch with him.
Link Posted: 11/29/2019 8:59:47 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Mighty cold.
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And quenched by being thrust into the bodies of Nubian slaves?
That won't work. A body won't bring the temp of the steel down quick enough to allow proper hardening to take place.
What if it’s an Eskimo?
Mighty cold.
That's what I've been told
Link Posted: 11/29/2019 9:30:10 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:
.
Kindly tell us what makes a piece of leather "Corinthian."

Is the scabbard supposed to be made from a 1970s Chrysler seat cover?
View Quote
I would like to find one, just to make a holster or sheath from. Lol
Link Posted: 12/1/2019 1:28:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 12/1/2019 2:37:43 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:

Some kind of twist/feather pattern?
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Exactly. Split a twist into a feather.
Link Posted: 12/1/2019 3:31:50 AM EDT
[#32]
It looks cool.

Will you post pics of the finished knife?
Link Posted: 12/1/2019 1:30:04 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
It looks cool.

Will you post pics of the finished knife?
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I'm not making it.  Sending it to another maker.
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