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Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:27:21 PM EST
[#1]
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Quoted:

Global trade is good.

Globalhomo as a one world government is unrelated.
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Allow me to give you a Bible quote.

Proverbs 18:2
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:27:48 PM EST
[#2]
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Quoted:


Not really. You DO personally have the option of taking Ukraine up on their offer, and helping them kill "The Russian bear".

You personally do not have the option to spend other peoples money or send off our governments weapons to a foreign country under your personal authority.
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You don't understand the fallacy.

Hint: the fallacy is something presented as either-or when there are more than 2 options.

And, my killing days are behind me.  But I'm fine with actually giving weapons to a population that has the balls to use them for once.  ??
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:28:10 PM EST
[#3]
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Quoted:


The difference being I don't need to chew the bubblegum, I don't give a fuck about it,  and I'm tired of fucking paying for it.


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Well, who gives a crap, just keep paying your taxes and keep your head in the sand.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:30:55 PM EST
[#4]
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Quoted:



Except you do care, or you wouldn’t be posting in this thread at all.

Virtue signaling how much you don’t care by repeatedly going into threads to talk about how much you don’t care has become trendy among folks of a certain mindset here…
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Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what they do over there. I don't give a damn if those two retard run countries butt fuck each other back to the stone age. Just leave us the hell alone and don't ask for my money.

Not my circus.

https://y.yarn.co/77ee02ab-7f5c-4bf3-8276-56a8002002d3_text.gif



Except you do care, or you wouldn’t be posting in this thread at all.

Virtue signaling how much you don’t care by repeatedly going into threads to talk about how much you don’t care has become trendy among folks of a certain mindset here…


I care about America and my tax dollars.

Ukraine and Russia both can fuck off.
And all of Europe while we're at it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:34:54 PM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:

Nothing in their site which was linked as a "gotcha" was anything more than wanting a consensual union of similar countries.  Just like the Nazis.  
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Lol, they’re a militant movement. They’ve admittedly toned down their rhetoric from confronting the threat of the “untermenchen” to recently comparing themselves to the ultranationalist militias of the Weimar era “Freikorps” ( which incidentally fed the Sturmabteilung brownshirts) appealing to a larger base.  Their foreign secretary Olena Semenyaka speaks at conferences all over Europe and Eastern Europe garnering supporters and networking.  

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:35:43 PM EST
[#6]
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Quoted:


That is balderdash. Why do you think the Nuremberg trials were held? It was all about war crimes and justice under International law. Sure there are always other justifications. Wars are always more complex than they appear in the beginning. Risk of war is also a calculation of risk. Still, we do things like airlifting thousands of Ethiopian Jews from Sudan in 1985. There was risk and it was kept secret until it was done to minimize that risk.

It is easy to be flippant with the lives of people we don't know. It is so much easier to "Not care" than to act human and stick your neck out to do right. Are Russian cold indifference to humanity and the lives of others any different than our cold indifference if we are unwilling to protect them? I'm far more conservative than some who call themselves conservative but there is nothing conservative about throwing oppressed people under the bus and then gloating how pure we are. That is the worst lie of all.
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It doesn't matter if you give a flying flip about war crimes, genocide, Ukraine or old ladies in babushkas getting raped in the back of BTRs. The only operative question is whether bleeding Russia of military and political power benefits the United States strategically. Morality can have nothing to do with the calculus of what level of involvement by the US is justified.


That is balderdash. Why do you think the Nuremberg trials were held? It was all about war crimes and justice under International law. Sure there are always other justifications. Wars are always more complex than they appear in the beginning. Risk of war is also a calculation of risk. Still, we do things like airlifting thousands of Ethiopian Jews from Sudan in 1985. There was risk and it was kept secret until it was done to minimize that risk.

It is easy to be flippant with the lives of people we don't know. It is so much easier to "Not care" than to act human and stick your neck out to do right. Are Russian cold indifference to humanity and the lives of others any different than our cold indifference if we are unwilling to protect them? I'm far more conservative than some who call themselves conservative but there is nothing conservative about throwing oppressed people under the bus and then gloating how pure we are. That is the worst lie of all.
Your misunderstanding my point. The US can provide arms to Ukraine for no moral reason at all. It is justified purely for strategic reasons.  The moral reasons come second and are not a necessary part of the calculus.  The same applies in reverse. There are cases where there is a high moral reason for military involvement, but no strategic reason, or involvement will hurt US strategic interests. In those cases, the moral imperative should not outweigh the strategic considerations, or lack thereof.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:36:05 PM EST
[#7]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:38:02 PM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:38:24 PM EST
[#9]
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Quoted:
Your misunderstanding my point. The US can provide arms to Ukraine for no moral reason at all. It is justified purely for strategic reasons.  The moral reasons come second and are not a necessary part of the calculus.  The same applies in reverse. There are cases where there is a high moral reason for military involvement, but no strategic reason, or involvement will hurt US strategic interests. In those cases, the moral imperative should not outweigh the strategic considerations, or lack thereof.
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So own it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:42:48 PM EST
[#10]
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Quoted:


So own it.
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Quoted:
Your misunderstanding my point. The US can provide arms to Ukraine for no moral reason at all. It is justified purely for strategic reasons.  The moral reasons come second and are not a necessary part of the calculus.  The same applies in reverse. There are cases where there is a high moral reason for military involvement, but no strategic reason, or involvement will hurt US strategic interests. In those cases, the moral imperative should not outweigh the strategic considerations, or lack thereof.


So own it.
I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:44:50 PM EST
[#11]
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Quoted:


The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion.
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I think it’s more like, corruption in Ukraine was used to attract US and European political interests in Ukraine for the purpose of drawing Russia into conflict by amateur and or short sighted foreign policy hacks that fucked up Soviet to Western transition to begin with.

I believe it was Zbigniew Brzezinski himself that postulated that if the American public knew we were painting Eurasia as a future conflict zone we would lose our stomach for it.  Remember Obama and Syria? Nobody wanted to expand that clusterfuck.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:47:12 PM EST
[#12]
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Quoted:
I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book.
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Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco?
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:50:16 PM EST
[#13]
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Quoted:

Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco?
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I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book.

Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco?
It would have required knowing that before they invaded because we have been providing arms and training since the Trump administration. Also, one of the reasons they are failing is because we've been helping Ukraine for 5 years to prepare for this. So, no, we shouldn't let Russia walk away with a a bruised ego.  It's started, and it needs to be finished properly.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:50:17 PM EST
[#14]
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Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco?
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The war is serving it’s purpose then,  it’s just the proponents want to give themselves some moral cover for feeding it.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:51:22 PM EST
[#15]
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Hahaha

Really?

You-serious-Clark.jpg

Wow
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So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:53:43 PM EST
[#16]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:54:07 PM EST
[#17]
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Quoted:


The war is serving it’s purpose then,  it’s just the proponents want to give themselves some moral cover for feeding it.
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You realize that they've killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizens, right?   They might not be able to project it terribly far... but they don't need to in order to cause massive problems.

You realize that Ukraine is not the only nation in close proximity to Russia, right?  Again, they don't need to project their power all that far.   Most of their immediate targets are right on their doorstep.

You realize that most of the other countries in question are ones we're directly allied to and treaty-bound to directly come to the aid of if attacked, right?
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:56:26 PM EST
[#18]
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So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite
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Got any actual, credible sources, because what you posted looks less than believable.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 6:58:18 PM EST
[#19]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:00:01 PM EST
[#20]
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But it technically is “some report”…

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:03:13 PM EST
[#21]
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Cincinnatus: You either say nothing or you speak untruths.  

Are you sure you’re not Russian?  
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Cool it with the ethnically derogatory innuendo.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:04:33 PM EST
[#22]
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So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite
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How did Putin get his billions?  Plural.

His salary?  

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:04:34 PM EST
[#23]
I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way.

Allow me to ask a hypothetical question.

So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner.

Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world?

If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do?

The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back.

I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!”

I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer.

It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better.

I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end.

Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:05:26 PM EST
[#24]
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But it technically is “some report”…

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I just can't picture someone with a Z avatar rocking a Mordor flag would post Russian bullshit. Unthinkable!
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:06:03 PM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:07:18 PM EST
[#26]
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Quoted:
I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way.

Allow me to ask a hypothetical question.

So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner.

Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world?

If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do?

The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back.

I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!”

I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer.

It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better.

I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end.

Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you.
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The TV told them to support Ukraine over the dirty Russians like either have anything impact on US of A

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:07:37 PM EST
[#27]
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Innuendo? No.

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Cincinnatus: You either say nothing or you speak untruths.  

Are you sure you’re not Russian?  

Cool it with the ethnically derogatory innuendo.

Innuendo? No.



Just racism then
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:08:44 PM EST
[#28]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:09:13 PM EST
[#29]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:10:13 PM EST
[#30]
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Russians are a race?
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More of a gang, really.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:11:52 PM EST
[#31]
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No, they are real world examples of what happens every time in recent history when our government gets involved with a war. I know reality and history don't align with your calls for war, but reality and history really don't care what you think.
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That's not a real response to anything I've said, it's a false equivalence, a common logical fallacy.


No, they are real world examples of what happens every time in recent history when our government gets involved with a war. I know reality and history don't align with your calls for war, but reality and history really don't care what you think.


They're examples of events that have nothing to do with current events in Ukraine.

You're also lying saying that I'm calling for war, clearly because you can't argue against what I'm actually saying. You've yet to present an actual argument against my actual argument. It's all false equivalencies and strawmen.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:12:10 PM EST
[#32]
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The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion.
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Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground.


The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion.



Sure we did.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:12:26 PM EST
[#33]
Quoted:


Russians are a race?
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Quoted:



More of a gang, really.
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Nationalism maybe, I dunno.  Natives hate the Russian Russians from what I hear.  Probably more wolves than people anyway
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:12:53 PM EST
[#34]
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:13:30 PM EST
[#35]
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Quoted:


I'm not the one calling to "Kill the Russian bear" or your a Russian sympathizer...


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It’s because it’s bullshit.

Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying.

Why they lie is open to interpretation.


And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood.

Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple.

Like I said, bullshit.


Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it.



You won't donate your body to your cause. Hypocrite.


I'm not the one calling to "Kill the Russian bear" or your a Russian sympathizer...





You're the one expecting us to donate our body to something we think is important, yet you won't donate your body to a cause you think is important. You're a hypocrite.

I'm not calling for any Americans to go fight, why do you keep saying I am?
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:13:45 PM EST
[#36]
those here who support democrat causes make me sick

everything a democrat does and says have evil intentions

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:14:05 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The ol globalism is good for us argument.

I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif
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You're right.  We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade.


The ol globalism is good for us argument.

I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif



Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war.

Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:14:13 PM EST
[#38]
I think we should ship arms to everyone on earth including US if we're gonna ship arms anywhere....
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:14:47 PM EST
[#39]
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Quoted:


That is balderdash.
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I need to start using that word more. It's a good one.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:15:37 PM EST
[#40]
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Quoted:



I need to start using that word more. It's a good one.
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Quoted:


That is balderdash.



I need to start using that word more. It's a good one.


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:16:42 PM EST
[#41]
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Quoted:
You disagree that it was a straw man……and then you immediately employ it as a straw man.
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It isn’t a straw man. It’s a fucking fact. The iraq wars were built on lies.

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:16:42 PM EST
[#42]
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Quoted:



I need to start using that word more. It's a good one.
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Poppycock.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:16:49 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war.

Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

You're right.  We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade.


The ol globalism is good for us argument.

I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade!

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif



Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war.

Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all.


If all that you're requesting is thoughts and prayers, you got it!

If you want American money and blood, fuck off.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:19:10 PM EST
[#44]
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Quoted:

But it technically is "some report"

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But it technically is "some report"

I believe the site is run by the same guy that wrote this gem.

Russia Insider:  Hitler Is Loved as a Hero Across Much of 3rd World - India, Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Turkey, Philippines, Middle East
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:19:48 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Hahaha

Really?

You-serious-Clark.jpg

Wow


So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite



That website sources veteranstoday.com which is a known Kremlin mouthpiece...literally.

lol
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:21:35 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way.

Allow me to ask a hypothetical question.

So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner.

Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world?

If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do?

The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back.

I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!”

I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer.

It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better.

I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end.

Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you.
View Quote



Your last sentence covers it. You get it already, but you don't get why.

If you think Poland should be worried, then you understand why we have skin in the game too. Google NATO article 5.
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:22:25 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way.

Allow me to ask a hypothetical question.

So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner.

Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world?

If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do?

The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back.

I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!”

I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer.

It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better.

I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end.

Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you.
View Quote


Very true.

The only way to win is not to play.

But the Russians have such a sweet anthem.

Russia National anthem Russian & English lyrics

Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:22:34 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Hahaha

Really?

You-serious-Clark.jpg

Wow


So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion.

cite


That "Cite"...   LOL!  

Other Stories:

Ukraine does not have any borders so what exactly are they defending

Vaccinated Humans are Legally Patented State-Owned properties no longer subject to Human Rights

Russian Economy Bounces Back as Sanction-Crazy Western Economies go into Tail Spin

Stop Le Pen demand as France’s Jewish Community Declare War on Nationalist Candidate

Now who would have Guessed that Washington is the Main Instigator of Worldwide Conflict

Putin says the New World Order has Flopped

Truly as "insightful & honest" as say ...  The Epoch Times...

BIGGER_HAMMER
Link Posted: 4/20/2022 7:23:01 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
those here who support democrat causes make me sick

everything a democrat does and says have evil intentions

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