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Quoted: Not really. You DO personally have the option of taking Ukraine up on their offer, and helping them kill "The Russian bear". You personally do not have the option to spend other peoples money or send off our governments weapons to a foreign country under your personal authority. View Quote You don't understand the fallacy. Hint: the fallacy is something presented as either-or when there are more than 2 options. And, my killing days are behind me. But I'm fine with actually giving weapons to a population that has the balls to use them for once. ?? |
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Quoted: Except you do care, or you wouldn’t be posting in this thread at all. Virtue signaling how much you don’t care by repeatedly going into threads to talk about how much you don’t care has become trendy among folks of a certain mindset here… View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Doesn't make a bit of difference to me what they do over there. I don't give a damn if those two retard run countries butt fuck each other back to the stone age. Just leave us the hell alone and don't ask for my money. Not my circus. https://y.yarn.co/77ee02ab-7f5c-4bf3-8276-56a8002002d3_text.gif Except you do care, or you wouldn’t be posting in this thread at all. Virtue signaling how much you don’t care by repeatedly going into threads to talk about how much you don’t care has become trendy among folks of a certain mindset here… I care about America and my tax dollars. Ukraine and Russia both can fuck off. And all of Europe while we're at it. |
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Quoted: Nothing in their site which was linked as a "gotcha" was anything more than wanting a consensual union of similar countries. Just like the Nazis. View Quote Lol, they’re a militant movement. They’ve admittedly toned down their rhetoric from confronting the threat of the “untermenchen” to recently comparing themselves to the ultranationalist militias of the Weimar era “Freikorps” ( which incidentally fed the Sturmabteilung brownshirts) appealing to a larger base. Their foreign secretary Olena Semenyaka speaks at conferences all over Europe and Eastern Europe garnering supporters and networking. |
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Quoted: That is balderdash. Why do you think the Nuremberg trials were held? It was all about war crimes and justice under International law. Sure there are always other justifications. Wars are always more complex than they appear in the beginning. Risk of war is also a calculation of risk. Still, we do things like airlifting thousands of Ethiopian Jews from Sudan in 1985. There was risk and it was kept secret until it was done to minimize that risk. It is easy to be flippant with the lives of people we don't know. It is so much easier to "Not care" than to act human and stick your neck out to do right. Are Russian cold indifference to humanity and the lives of others any different than our cold indifference if we are unwilling to protect them? I'm far more conservative than some who call themselves conservative but there is nothing conservative about throwing oppressed people under the bus and then gloating how pure we are. That is the worst lie of all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't matter if you give a flying flip about war crimes, genocide, Ukraine or old ladies in babushkas getting raped in the back of BTRs. The only operative question is whether bleeding Russia of military and political power benefits the United States strategically. Morality can have nothing to do with the calculus of what level of involvement by the US is justified. That is balderdash. Why do you think the Nuremberg trials were held? It was all about war crimes and justice under International law. Sure there are always other justifications. Wars are always more complex than they appear in the beginning. Risk of war is also a calculation of risk. Still, we do things like airlifting thousands of Ethiopian Jews from Sudan in 1985. There was risk and it was kept secret until it was done to minimize that risk. It is easy to be flippant with the lives of people we don't know. It is so much easier to "Not care" than to act human and stick your neck out to do right. Are Russian cold indifference to humanity and the lives of others any different than our cold indifference if we are unwilling to protect them? I'm far more conservative than some who call themselves conservative but there is nothing conservative about throwing oppressed people under the bus and then gloating how pure we are. That is the worst lie of all. |
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Quoted: Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. If you feel so strongly about it, take a stand and refuse to pay taxes! lol I pay plenty, and I am currently working in direct support of this current fight, so I’m good. |
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Quoted: The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground. The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. Fish on! |
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Quoted: Your misunderstanding my point. The US can provide arms to Ukraine for no moral reason at all. It is justified purely for strategic reasons. The moral reasons come second and are not a necessary part of the calculus. The same applies in reverse. There are cases where there is a high moral reason for military involvement, but no strategic reason, or involvement will hurt US strategic interests. In those cases, the moral imperative should not outweigh the strategic considerations, or lack thereof. View Quote So own it. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Your misunderstanding my point. The US can provide arms to Ukraine for no moral reason at all. It is justified purely for strategic reasons. The moral reasons come second and are not a necessary part of the calculus. The same applies in reverse. There are cases where there is a high moral reason for military involvement, but no strategic reason, or involvement will hurt US strategic interests. In those cases, the moral imperative should not outweigh the strategic considerations, or lack thereof. So own it. |
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Quoted: The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. View Quote I think it’s more like, corruption in Ukraine was used to attract US and European political interests in Ukraine for the purpose of drawing Russia into conflict by amateur and or short sighted foreign policy hacks that fucked up Soviet to Western transition to begin with. I believe it was Zbigniew Brzezinski himself that postulated that if the American public knew we were painting Eurasia as a future conflict zone we would lose our stomach for it. Remember Obama and Syria? Nobody wanted to expand that clusterfuck. |
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Quoted: I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book. View Quote Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? |
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Quoted: Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book. Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? |
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Quoted: Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? View Quote The war is serving it’s purpose then, it’s just the proponents want to give themselves some moral cover for feeding it. |
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Quoted: Hahaha Really? You-serious-Clark.jpg Wow View Quote So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion. cite |
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Quoted: Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I think I have. I don't care about the moral component at all. Bleeding Russia's power to project force is sufficient justification to provide weapons at US taxpayer expense, at least in my book. Doesn't the level of failure displayed by Russia in Ukraine kinda blow a hole in any theory that says they could project force before their Ukraine fiasco? No. It actually 100% justifies the tremendous effort we put in to help the Ukrainians do this. |
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Quoted: The war is serving it’s purpose then, it’s just the proponents want to give themselves some moral cover for feeding it. View Quote You realize that they've killed tens of thousands of Ukrainian citizens, right? They might not be able to project it terribly far... but they don't need to in order to cause massive problems. You realize that Ukraine is not the only nation in close proximity to Russia, right? Again, they don't need to project their power all that far. Most of their immediate targets are right on their doorstep. You realize that most of the other countries in question are ones we're directly allied to and treaty-bound to directly come to the aid of if attacked, right? |
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View Quote Got any actual, credible sources, because what you posted looks less than believable. |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Hahaha Really? You-serious-Clark.jpg Wow So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion. cite Nice propaganda site! https://europerenaissance.com/2022/03/29/could-putin-succeed-where-hitler-failed/ You ACTUALLY posted that! |
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Quoted: Nice propaganda site! https://europerenaissance.com/2022/03/29/could-putin-succeed-where-hitler-failed/ View Quote But it technically is “some report”… |
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View Quote How did Putin get his billions? Plural. His salary? |
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I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way.
Allow me to ask a hypothetical question. So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner. Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world? If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do? The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!” I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer. It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better. I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end. Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you. |
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Quoted: I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way. Allow me to ask a hypothetical question. So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner. Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world? If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do? The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!” I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer. It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better. I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end. Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you. View Quote The TV told them to support Ukraine over the dirty Russians like either have anything impact on US of A |
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Quoted: The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!” |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Cincinnatus: You either say nothing or you speak untruths. Are you sure you’re not Russian? Cool it with the ethnically derogatory innuendo. Innuendo? No. Just racism then Russians are a race? Have you seen this thread? https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Things-that-Russians-are-good-at/5-2546632/? You should go over there and scold all those racists! Go! |
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Quoted: No, they are real world examples of what happens every time in recent history when our government gets involved with a war. I know reality and history don't align with your calls for war, but reality and history really don't care what you think. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That's not a real response to anything I've said, it's a false equivalence, a common logical fallacy. No, they are real world examples of what happens every time in recent history when our government gets involved with a war. I know reality and history don't align with your calls for war, but reality and history really don't care what you think. They're examples of events that have nothing to do with current events in Ukraine. You're also lying saying that I'm calling for war, clearly because you can't argue against what I'm actually saying. You've yet to present an actual argument against my actual argument. It's all false equivalencies and strawmen. |
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Quoted: The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Informed people often side with the country that was invaded with zero justification and is currently threatened with destruction of their entire identity, which also not advocating for American boots on the ground. The U.S. corrupted Ukraine and set-up Ukraine up for invasion. Sure we did. |
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Quoted: Russians are a race? View Quote Quoted: More of a gang, really. View Quote Nationalism maybe, I dunno. Natives hate the Russian Russians from what I hear. Probably more wolves than people anyway |
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Quoted: I'm not the one calling to "Kill the Russian bear" or your a Russian sympathizer... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s because it’s bullshit. Most people who look at the War in Ukraine and claim to not care which side “wins” or claim to not see which side is “right” are lying. Why they lie is open to interpretation. And how exactly are you able to read peoples minds and know their intent?? I am not lying when I say I don't care about two corrupt country's fighting each other on the other side of the world anymore than I care when the Crips and the Bloods go at each other in their Hood. Is that so hard for you to understand? No more endless wars that always end up worse than when we got involved. I understand that war makes lots of people rich, but as a US citizen I don't think we need to get into the shit yet again. It really is that simple. Like I said, bullshit. Then YOU donate YOUR money, children and body to YOUR cause and leave the people with common sense out of it. You won't donate your body to your cause. Hypocrite. I'm not the one calling to "Kill the Russian bear" or your a Russian sympathizer... You're the one expecting us to donate our body to something we think is important, yet you won't donate your body to a cause you think is important. You're a hypocrite. I'm not calling for any Americans to go fight, why do you keep saying I am? |
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those here who support democrat causes make me sick
everything a democrat does and says have evil intentions |
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Quoted: The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You're right. We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade. The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war. Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all. |
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I think we should ship arms to everyone on earth including US if we're gonna ship arms anywhere....
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Quoted: I need to start using that word more. It's a good one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That is balderdash. I need to start using that word more. It's a good one. Attached File |
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Quoted: Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war. Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You're right. We've lived too well off of having a stable world with strong international trade. The ol globalism is good for us argument. I'm sure that us jumping into another war will really help stability and international trade! https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/124/446/29c.gif Nobody is calling for us to jump into a war. Without strawmen arguments, you guys would have no arguments at all. If all that you're requesting is thoughts and prayers, you got it! If you want American money and blood, fuck off. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Nice propaganda site! https://europerenaissance.com/2022/03/29/could-putin-succeed-where-hitler-failed/ But it technically is "some report" Russia Insider: Hitler Is Loved as a Hero Across Much of 3rd World - India, Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Turkey, Philippines, Middle East |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Hahaha Really? You-serious-Clark.jpg Wow So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion. cite That website sources veteranstoday.com which is a known Kremlin mouthpiece...literally. lol |
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Quoted: I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way. Allow me to ask a hypothetical question. So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner. Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world? If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do? The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!” I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer. It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better. I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end. Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you. View Quote Your last sentence covers it. You get it already, but you don't get why. If you think Poland should be worried, then you understand why we have skin in the game too. Google NATO article 5. |
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Quoted: I enjoy watching you 5 or 6 guys argue over this stuff. You all seem to know a lot of stuff. I don’t mean that in a mean way. Allow me to ask a hypothetical question. So say three weeks from now. Kiev falls, Zelinsky is captured and taken prisoner. Besides a bunch of thread with people arguing on arfcom and Twitter. What’s it going to change in the world? If Ukraine falls it will cause the world to burn or will we all just move on to the next thing like we usually do? The picture of Colon Powell holding the pretend yellow cake was called a “straw man” a few pages back. I don’t see it that way. Colon and that whole administration lied and a bunch of souls went to heaven and hell because of it. It was the same thing. “We’re all going to die if we don’t invade Iraq!!” I like cheap gas and electricity but at the cost of human life? It’s hard to even think of it that way when I am so far removed from it. But I’m the end that’s what went down. Aside from rich people getting richer. It’s the same with Ukraine in my eyes. If they fall or if Russia collapses. I hardly think 2 years from now things will be better. I suspect we will just be watching the politicians telling us we have to invade some other place because the world will end. Maybe I’m just to simple and greedy but I don’t see how this affects the average person living in America. If I was in Poland. I might be concerned. But I’m on the other side of the world chilling just like the rest of you. View Quote Very true. The only way to win is not to play. But the Russians have such a sweet anthem. Russia National anthem Russian & English lyrics |
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Hahaha Really? You-serious-Clark.jpg Wow So how did Zelensky get so wealthy? Some reports put his worth over a billion. cite That "Cite"... LOL! Other Stories: Ukraine does not have any borders so what exactly are they defending Vaccinated Humans are Legally Patented State-Owned properties no longer subject to Human Rights Russian Economy Bounces Back as Sanction-Crazy Western Economies go into Tail Spin Stop Le Pen demand as France’s Jewish Community Declare War on Nationalist Candidate Now who would have Guessed that Washington is the Main Instigator of Worldwide Conflict Putin says the New World Order has Flopped Truly as "insightful & honest" as say ... The Epoch Times... BIGGER_HAMMER |
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