Quoted:



Bullshit


The statement says the church went out of its way to hide it's money from the members and illegally set up shell companies

Just facts no spin

Quoted:


No there is a shit ton of spin in your “facts”. The “went out of its way to hide its money from members” is complete conjecture of the SEC spokesman. It’s no different they any of the main stream media claiming Trump/Russia collusion for 4 straight years.

And the SEC never claimed they illegally set up shell companies. There is nothing illegal about that. Hell 95% of publicly traded companies use shells for one thing or another as part of their business.

The SEC says if the church controls all their assets they need to be filed as a single reporting form per SEC rules. The church split their assets between 13 companies and reported all their holdings on individual reports. So 13 reports combined showed what 1 should. The SEC said you can’t do that and gave them a fine.

Your facts are bullshit.

Quoted:
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf

The LDS church, also known as the Mormon church, and its wholly owned and controlled financial entity, Ensign Peak, has been charged and ordered by the U.S. SEC to cease and desist its intentional obfuscation and failure to report full and accurate financial information for one of its investment funds by creating and controlling shell companies "to ensure that neither the Street nor the media" could see its full investments in the Ensign Peak fund. "To prevent disclosure of the securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak, the Church approved Ensign Peak’s plan of using other entities, instead of Ensign Peak, to file Forms 13F. The Church was concerned that disclosure of the assets in the name of Ensign Peak, a known Church affiliate, would lead to negative consequences in light of the size of the Church’s portfolio. Ensign Peak did not have the authority to implement this approach without the approval of the Church’s First Presidency."



The top executive to the Ensign Peak account told the Wall Street Journal that if the church members knew of the size of the accounts, that they wouldn't continue to pay 10% tithing on their income.




Certainly this shouldn't have ever happened given the LDS church's belief that its President, First Presidency, and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are all "prophets, seers, and revelators". However, from a purely secular standpoint, it's not unexpected given that the Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, M. Russel Ballard (a very successful used car salesman), was barred by the SEC in 1963.

https://i.imgur.com/FEZW1n1.jpg

Related to this now $130 Billion+ investment fund, the IRS is also investigating claims made against the fund by a former account manager. Of note, there are claims that no money has been used for any humanitarian or charity use, instead its sole use has been to build a 1.5 billion dollar mall and bailout an mormon church owned insurance company -  "Latter-day Saint officials acknowledged that it used Ensign funds to underwrite construction of City Creek Center mall in downtown Salt Lake City and rescue Beneficial Life, a church-owned insurance company, but said there was nothing illegal in that."

Quoted:


Jesus claimed to be God. LDS church does not believe Jesus was/is God, but a separate entity, they will say Jesus never claimed to be God, which is in dispute with the oldest most reliable writings of the gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Either Jesus was delusional, lying, or telling the truth.

Quoted:


“We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”

Sooooooooo?

Quoted:


The key whistleblower came forward in December of 2021, 13 months ago.

It's kind of amazing how much blind faith you have in church leadership. Especially after seeing the evidence that the church purposely hid assets in shell companies because they were (rightly) worried that members would stop tithing if they knew the church had "investments" worth 100 billion.

The catholic church doesn't have $100 billion of "investments" and hasn't been fined by the SEC. Maybe that's because they do real charity work..

Quoted:
Are Mormons Christian?

Quoted:
Sounds like the church needs to establish their own nation state like the Vatican.

Quoted:
Anyone willing to consecrate a tenth of their increase to God is entitled to his blessings.

Quoted:


Jesus claimed to be God. LDS church does not believe Jesus was/is God, but a separate entity, they will say Jesus never claimed to be God, which is in dispute with the oldest most reliable writings of the gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John). Either Jesus was delusional, lying, or telling the truth.

Quoted:


Not that big of a deal? A $5 million fine not being a big deal - perhaps if you're sitting on just an investment account worth over $130 billion.

Your situation is not at all analogous to the situation that the mormon church was charged with. The highest level of church leadership was aware of, directed, and signed off on the scheme. From the SEC's order: "On March 15, 2005, the Church became aware that the public might link this first LLC to the Church because the person signing the Forms 13F was listed in a public directory as a
Church employee. To address this issue, on March 21, 2005, the senior leadership of the Church approved a new reporting entity to be created with “better care being taken to ensure that neither
the ‘Street’ nor the media [could] connect the new entity to Ensign Peak.” Notice this says the Church, not Ensign Peak, but the Church leadership did this - not an accountant, not a financial advisor, not an attorney, but the highest senior level of church leadership. Also notice that this timeline was before the multiple shell companies were created. The church leadership orchestrated the shell company scheme to hide the funds from their members and the government, but primarily from its members. There's no altruistic "stick it to the .gov man", it was all about hiding its finances to their tithe paying membership.


I was going to lay out some other key pieces that point directly to the top of the mormon hierarchy as driving force behind hiding the funds from their members, but there's far too many instances to spend all night here when I'm headed to the gym. Instead here's the conspiracy as told by SEC investigators and you can read all about the conspiracy or not: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2023/34-96951.pdf

Quoted:
Maybe we should all fine the government for their lack of disclosure in relation to financial issues.   They get upset over a misfiled form,  but fleece the American citizens for trillions with no consequence.  

If the government and people in general ran their finances as well as the LDS church did,  this country would be a lot better off.

Quoted:



As was said in the other thread:
"the amount of posts in both threads about this that make comments about taxes, hiding funds to avoid taxes, dogging taxes, etc. is just mind boggling.

Does anyone read these articles before posting???

This situation has ZERO to do with taxes or taxable income. It's simply a reporting violation the SEC requires of all organizations with assets over $100 million."



The church's statement:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-issues-statement-on-sec-settlement

"Since 2000, Ensign Peak received and relied upon legal counsel regarding how to comply with its reporting obligations while attempting to maintain the privacy of the portfolio. As a result, Ensign Peak established separate companies (LLCs) that each filed Forms 13F instead of a single aggregated filing. Ensign Peak and the Church believe that all securities required to be reported were included in the filings by the separate companies.

In June 2019, the SEC first expressed concern about Ensign Peak's reporting approach. Ensign Peak adjusted its approach and began filing a single aggregated report. Since that time, 13 quarterly reports have been filed in full accordance with SEC requirements.

This settlement relates to how the forms were filed previously. Ensign Peak and the Church have cooperated with the government over a period of time as we sought resolution.

We affirm our commitment to comply with the law, regret mistakes made, and now consider this matter closed."

Quoted:
Now do the Vatican!

Quoted:



As was said in the other thread:
"the amount of posts in both threads about this that make comments about taxes, hiding funds to avoid taxes, dogging taxes, etc. is just mind boggling.

Does anyone read these articles before posting???

This situation has ZERO to do with taxes or taxable income. It’s simply a reporting violation the SEC requires of all organizations with assets over $100 million."



The church's statement:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/church-issues-statement-on-sec-settlement

"Since 2000, Ensign Peak received and relied upon legal counsel regarding how to comply with its reporting obligations while attempting to maintain the privacy of the portfolio. As a result, Ensign Peak established separate companies (LLCs) that each filed Forms 13F instead of a single aggregated filing. Ensign Peak and the Church believe that all securities required to be reported were included in the filings by the separate companies.

In June 2019, the SEC first expressed concern about Ensign Peak’s reporting approach. Ensign Peak adjusted its approach and began filing a single aggregated report. Since that time, 13 quarterly reports have been filed in full accordance with SEC requirements.

This settlement relates to how the forms were filed previously. Ensign Peak and the Church have cooperated with the government over a period of time as we sought resolution.

We affirm our commitment to comply with the law, regret mistakes made, and now consider this matter closed."

Quoted:


lol wat?

I said no such thing about taxes in this thread or elsewhere.

If you prefer to not respond but instead rely on an unrelated post written by a mod, not addressed to me or in any way related to what I have written; and if you prefer to rely on the PR statement issued by the culpable party which downplays the allegations of wrongdoing for benefit of their church membership, then that’s your choice and entirely reasonable for someone unwilling to see the truth.  

I wish you a good day.

Quoted:



There is several references to taxes throughout this thread.  That quote I posted was relating to that.  

Is setting up shell corporations illegal?  No.  The way the church set up the LLCs was within the law.  If you don't like that,  push to have the law changed.   You will not find a large corporation or entity out there with large assets that doesn't do similar accounting tricks.   The way the accountants reported on those LLCs is where the problem arose.   When the problem was discovered,  fines were paid and changes were made.    If they had continued doing the same thing,  then it would be more of an issue.


I swear,  everytime I see LDS critics post stuff like this,  I am reminded of the democrat/Trump memes  where they say :"We got him this time for sure".  

The church would be in a lose lose situation if they fully disclosed the finances.   Why do you think Trump didn't disclose his taxes?   Every little detail would be picked over by critics  and no matter how much money was used for good purposes,  they would find a way to be critical of what was not spent.

Quoted:
So it's just a big investment firm making a few people rich

p.3

The Church created Ensign Peak in 1997 as an integrated auxiliary of the Church to manage the Church’s investment securities. Ensign Peak has no shareholders or members. The securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak consists of what the Church calls “reserve funds” or “reserves,” which include U.S. equity and debt securities purchased with excess tithing, income and returns generated by Ensign Peak, and the assets of other Church integrated auxiliaries. Ensign Peak does not charge the Church management fees.

To prevent disclosure of the securities portfolio managed by Ensign Peak, the Church approved Ensign Peak’s plan of using other entities, instead of Ensign Peak, to file Forms 13F. The Church was concerned that disclosure of the assets in the name of Ensign Peak, a known Church affiliate, would lead to negative consequences in light of the size of the Church’s portfolio. Ensign Peak did not have the authority to implement this approach without the approval of the Church’s First Presidency.

Quoted:


Sought legal counsel "while attempting to maintain the privacy of the portfolio." That's the sanitized version of making sure the names on the management documents can't even be found in church employment directories, with the express purpose of concealing assets.

That starts to sound an awful lot like one of those "secret combinations" to gain and hide wealth & power that are decried in LDS teachings. The Gadianton robbers included judges, operating in the legal system.

Quoted:
Now do the Vatican!

Quoted:

Now add the leftward creep, the association with wicked organizations like the UN, and it doesn't look good at all.

Quoted:


They have to do weekly chores and also tithe?

Quoted:
And y’all wonder why desert tech and Utah based MLMs are such utter scams.

Standard operating procedure at the International House of Handshakes