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Quoted: Why was Arf against it? Too much power to the feds? I’ve seen a couple similar arguments that make a lot of sense but at the end of the day we are still unable to freely exercise our rights. View Quote Yes. I don't think they had the basic understanding that this was not a national CCW permit law. It was strictly reciprocity like your drivers license. |
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As an active LEO I have a CHP from my local sheriff even though I don't technically need it. You never know when your agency will do weird things. The Colorado AG has ruled that even though state statute allows LEO's to carry off duty, it is not a right and the head of agency can limit it or not allow it.
With regard to retired credentials, in Colorado you don't need to be retired, just have served for 10 or more years and left under good terms. Some agencies are requiring a medical examination every year to go along with qualification on the range. There does not appear to be much consistency in what the qualification course looks like. I don't know that LEOSA really gives the retired LEO much in the way of benefits. I do agree that national reciprocity for everyone is the way to go, if constitutional carry is not allowed. There has been some debate about local magazine size limits not applying to LEOSA, but I have never seen anything definitive. |
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Quoted: Sorry to say this guys but as a non-LE this really grinds my gears, since again provides special rights to, or rather doesn't erode the rights of LE vs. us plebes. Retired should have no more or less privilege than the average Joe. Oh, you pissed off lots of cartels, etc. with a massive bust at some point and there is a price on your head? Sorry. Move to a state that respects your rights more and go thru the same CCW permit process as the rest of us. I guess if it is a big enough price I could be OK with you getting disappeared in the witness protection program. View Quote here you go! |
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Quoted: As an active LEO I have a CHP from my local sheriff even though I don't technically need it. You never know when your agency will do weird things. The Colorado AG has ruled that even though state statute allows LEO's to carry off duty, it is not a right and the head of agency can limit it or not allow it. With regard to retired credentials, in Colorado you don't need to be retired, just have served for 10 or more years and left under good terms. Some agencies are requiring a medical examination every year to go along with qualification on the range. There does not appear to be much consistency in what the qualification course looks like. I don't know that LEOSA really gives the retired LEO much in the way of benefits. I do agree that national reciprocity for everyone is the way to go, if constitutional carry is not allowed. There has been some debate about local magazine size limits not applying to LEOSA, but I have never seen anything definitive. View Quote A lot of departments require an officer to have an annual official qual sheet on any firearm they might use off duty. There is no way many us would be able to fulfill that requirement so you get a CCW permit and carry with it. |
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Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg View Quote |
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@Miami_JBT
Where does it say in the law that an off-duty status has any influence in LEOSA status? There are two main criteria to meet: 1) Whether the LEO has a power of arrest 2) Whether the LEO is authorized to carry a firearm while on duty The law does not say anything about off-duty at all. |
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Quoted: @Miami_JBT Where does it say in the law that an off-duty status has any influence in LEOSA status? There are two main criteria to meet: 1) Whether the LEO has a power of arrest 2) Whether the LEO is authorized to carry a firearm while on duty The law does not say anything about off-duty at all. View Quote |
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Quoted: Why was Arf against it? Too much power to the feds? I’ve seen a couple similar arguments that make a lot of sense but at the end of the day we are still unable to freely exercise our rights. View Quote From what I have seen in the past, a lot of opposition here to any sort of national concealed carry has always focused on the various standards that might be imposed such as training or qualification requirements that some people here object to. |
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Quoted: From what I have seen in the past, a lot of opposition here to any sort of national concealed carry has always focused on the various standards that might be imposed such as training or qualification requirements that some people here object to. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Why was Arf against it? Too much power to the feds? I've seen a couple similar arguments that make a lot of sense but at the end of the day we are still unable to freely exercise our rights. From what I have seen in the past, a lot of opposition here to any sort of national concealed carry has always focused on the various standards that might be imposed such as training or qualification requirements that some people here object to. |
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Another thing to remember is that if you are carrying outside of your jurisdiction under LEOSA, nothing in the law requires your agency to back you up (i.e. legally) should you be involved in an incident where you use your gun. If you do act, and even if it was a good shoot in the eyes of "normal people", you could still be charged and/or sued and the cost of defending it will be on you. Welcome to 2020. This is not being said to discourage off-duty LEO's from carrying, rather knowing that if something does occur, you are on your own. With that said, several LE groups such as the FOP do offer LEOSA insurance to cover this type of event at a minimal cost. I would encourage anyone with a CCW to also carry some type of coverage, especially in light of litigious PC/SJW society where the most text book good shoot can be spun by the media to look like an assassination literally.
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Quoted: Go join a local PD, Sheriff's Department, or Constable. Get your basic LE cert and you can carry in NYC just like those NYPD officers went through the NYS version to get their basic LE cert and got hired. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it’s not always because they don’t have the qualifications or couldn’t do the job. It ain’t that hard, and the qualifications aren’t that rigid. |
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Quoted: Another thing to remember is that if you are carrying outside of your jurisdiction under LEOSA, nothing in the law requires your agency to back you up (i.e. legally) should you be involved in an incident where you use your gun. If you do act, and even if it was a good shoot in the eyes of "normal people", you could still be charged and/or sued and the cost of defending it will be on you. Welcome to 2020. This is not being said to discourage off-duty LEO's from carrying, rather knowing that if something does occur, you are on your own. With that said, several LE groups such as the FOP do offer LEOSA insurance to cover this type of event at a minimal cost. I would encourage anyone with a CCW to also carry some type of coverage, especially in light of litigious PC/SJW society where the most text book good shoot can be spun by the media to look like an assassination literally. View Quote I bought US Law Shield for off duty carry. |
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Quoted: You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it's not always because they don't have the qualifications or couldn't do the job. It ain't that hard, and the qualifications aren't that rigid. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it's not always because they don't have the qualifications or couldn't do the job. It ain't that hard, and the qualifications aren't that rigid. Well, until National Reciprocity passes. LEOSA is the only answer. They can join a agency and qualify for it or they can sit on the sidelines. |
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Quoted: ITT: A lot of boomer cops who care about no one but themselves. What a shocker. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: LEOSA= rules for thee but not for me. It has always irked me. I don't believe that chosen profession should grant you extra rights. ITT: A lot of boomer cops who care about no one but themselves. What a shocker. Some of us boomers do care, but with so many members willing to take away LEOSA because they don’t have the equivalent with national reciprocity I quit giving too much of a shit. |
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Quoted: Well, until National Reciprocity passes. LEOSA is the only answer. They can join a agency and qualify for it or they can sit on the sidelines. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it's not always because they don't have the qualifications or couldn't do the job. It ain't that hard, and the qualifications aren't that rigid. Well, until National Reciprocity passes. LEOSA is the only answer. They can join a agency and qualify for it or they can sit on the sidelines. Not.Everyone.Wants.To.Be.A.Cop. And I do not blame them. In case you were not aware, there’s a little more to police work than the privilege of national carry. Not everyone wants to leave their family on Christmas morning for that privilege. Very few LE agencies are state level bureaucrats with bankers hours. |
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Quoted: Not.Everyone.Wants.To.Be.A.Cop. And I do not blame them. In case you were not aware, there's a little more to police work than the privilege of national carry. Not everyone wants to leave their family on Christmas morning for that privilege. Very few LE agencies are state level bureaucrats with bankers hours. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it's not always because they don't have the qualifications or couldn't do the job. It ain't that hard, and the qualifications aren't that rigid. Well, until National Reciprocity passes. LEOSA is the only answer. They can join a agency and qualify for it or they can sit on the sidelines. Not.Everyone.Wants.To.Be.A.Cop. And I do not blame them. In case you were not aware, there's a little more to police work than the privilege of national carry. Not everyone wants to leave their family on Christmas morning for that privilege. Very few LE agencies are state level bureaucrats with bankers hours. |
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I live in Arizona and we don’t require a permit for Jack shit unless you want to carry in a bar, basically. I will be eligible for LEOSA when I retire A few years but I still plan on getting another CCW (Had one but let it expire) within my state since doubling up is never a bad idea
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Quoted: Since FDLE requires that we qualify individually with each class of weapon. We're issued two cards. One for Semi-Autos and another for Revolvers. View Quote Would they get a separate card for full auto, bolt action, etc. or are these just the 2 types of handgun cards? |
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In my humble opinion if you're a cop from out of state and you're NOT performing an official duty such as transporting a prisoner you should have no more privilege in the state you're visiting than any other citizen of that state. You're under no more obligation to assist, you have no arrest powers, no uniform, no valid badge in that state and since no one in that state knows you're a cop (assuming you're not wearing a "I'M A COP" T shirt) other than your family, so it's not like you're wearing a target on your back. You're just an average Joe on vacation.
That being said, I don't care about the law that much. It's just another minor stab in the back to regular citizens...one of so many I've lost count. |
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Quoted: How does it work for full-time LE? Would they get a separate card for full auto, bolt action, etc. or are these just the 2 types of handgun cards? View Quote LEOSA only applies to handguns. Long guns have nothing to do with this. So being qualed on a agency MG doesn't mean anything anyways. |
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Quoted: In my humble opinion if you're a cop from out of state and you're NOT performing an official duty such as transporting a prisoner you should have no more privilege in the state you're visiting than any other citizen of that state. You're under no more obligation to assist, you have no arrest powers, no uniform, no valid badge in that state and since no one in that state knows you're a cop (assuming you're not wearing a "I'M A COP" T shirt) other than your family, so it's not like you're wearing a target on your back. You're just an average Joe on vacation. That being said, I don't care about the law that much. It's just another minor stab in the back to regular citizens...one of so many I've lost count. View Quote |
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@Blacktide
More than CID.... US Army Counterintelligence (35L) qualifies since they are government employees and have arrest authority. Also of course US Army Military Police, US Navy Master at Arms, US Airforce Security Forces, US Coastguard Boarding Officers, etc.... plus the Army Criminal Investigation Command, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Naval Criminal Investigative Service , and Coast Guard Investigative Service qualify too. |
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Quoted: @Blacktide More than CID.... US Army Counterintelligence (35L) qualifies since they are government employees and have arrest authority. Also of course US Army Military Police, US Navy Master at Arms, US Airforce Security Forces, US Coastguard Boarding Officers, etc.... plus the Army Criminal Investigation Command, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Naval Criminal Investigative Service , and Coast Guard Investigative Service qualify too. View Quote Interesting. Thanks. |
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Quoted: Quoted: @Blacktide More than CID.... US Army Counterintelligence (35L) qualifies since they are government employees and have arrest authority. Also of course US Army Military Police, US Navy Master at Arms, US Airforce Security Forces, US Coastguard Boarding Officers, etc.... plus the Army Criminal Investigation Command, Air Force Office of Special Investigations, Naval Criminal Investigative Service , and Coast Guard Investigative Service qualify too. Interesting. Thanks. http://www.defenseconsultingservice.com/ |
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Quoted: Another thing to remember is that if you are carrying outside of your jurisdiction under LEOSA, nothing in the law requires your agency to back you up (i.e. legally) should you be involved in an incident where you use your gun. If you do act, and even if it was a good shoot in the eyes of "normal people", you could still be charged and/or sued and the cost of defending it will be on you. Welcome to 2020. This is not being said to discourage off-duty LEO's from carrying, rather knowing that if something does occur, you are on your own. With that said, several LE groups such as the FOP do offer LEOSA insurance to cover this type of event at a minimal cost. I would encourage anyone with a CCW to also carry some type of coverage, especially in light of litigious PC/SJW society where the most text book good shoot can be spun by the media to look like an assassination literally. View Quote I have CCW insurance and have a WI CCW permit for that exact reason. |
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Quoted: Back to ccw v LEOSA-are you saying in texas an off duty cop has to abide by a 30.06 or 30.07 sign? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I know everyone hates the NRA now, WLP suits and all that.. But the NRA HQ range in Fairfax,VA does LEOSA qualifications once a month. The range sells ammo too. Fly in, check into hotel. go to the Udvar Hazy Smithsonian Air & Space museum, go grab dinner, get some sleep. Qualify next day, hit the NRA HQ museum and then go back to airport. There's also George Washington's Mt Vernon estate, the Marine Corps museum in Quantico and the Army museum will be opening in Ft. Belvoir soon. No reason to go to DC. LEOSA also doesn't make you immune to magazine capacity restrictions in some states unless you're on duty, on official business. A way to muddy the waters is to download your mags. * Not Legal Advice* Back to ccw v LEOSA-are you saying in texas an off duty cop has to abide by a 30.06 or 30.07 sign? You do not have to qualify in the state you live in. I qualify in NC, but live in VA and am retired from an agency in VA. |
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Quoted: You keep telling people to become a cop when they disagree with LEOSA, while at the same time holding yourself up as a man of the people supporting National CCW. New flash-not everybody wants to be a cop, and it's not always because they don't have the qualifications or couldn't do the job. It ain't that hard, and the qualifications aren't that rigid. View Quote |
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Quoted: Depends on the agency. The last place I worked for, we qualed on our rifles, shotguns, and handguns. The training section kept the records and we got no cards. The agency prior to them, we were given a 3x5 piece of carbon paper with our qual records. LEOSA only applies to handguns. Long guns have nothing to do with this. So being qualed on a agency MG doesn't mean anything anyways. View Quote Not really. See the Drew Peterson case and it's successful defense by asserting LEOSA. https://petersonstory.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/weapons-charges-against-drew-peterson-dismissed/ |
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Quoted: Not really. See the Drew Peterson case and it's successful defense by asserting LEOSA. https://petersonstory.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/weapons-charges-against-drew-peterson-dismissed/ View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Depends on the agency. The last place I worked for, we qualed on our rifles, shotguns, and handguns. The training section kept the records and we got no cards. The agency prior to them, we were given a 3x5 piece of carbon paper with our qual records. LEOSA only applies to handguns. Long guns have nothing to do with this. So being qualed on a agency MG doesn't mean anything anyways. Not really. See the Drew Peterson case and it's successful defense by asserting LEOSA. https://petersonstory.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/weapons-charges-against-drew-peterson-dismissed/ New Jersey for example requires that their qualified separated officers get a "Retired Police Officer Permit to Carry" before they're eligible for LEOSA. No RPO, no gun. The Federal government has said bupkis about it. And the issue with Illinois was is Peterson allowed to possess such a gun under Illinois law as a cop. Basically reading the rendering, the State decided it wasn't worth the effort since they were going agter the guy for murder and had bigger fish to fry. So that said fuck it. Additionally, since separated officers have to qualify yearly to carry. Good luck finding someone to qual you for a rifle or shotgun. I had to qualify with a semiautomatic pistol and a revolver separately just so they're both covered because that is how FL is interpreting LEOSA since it states that qualified individuals must meet Stae or Agency qualification standards and FL requires specific qualifications for each type of firearm. Is it possible that if this is taken before a Federal court that they'd rule in a similar manner? Maybe. But at the moment. To err on the side of caution, LEOSA is for handguns only since there is no Federal ruling that says otherwise. We do know that LEOSA currently on a Federal level does not exempt guns from AWB type laws. I can't carry a G17 with a threaded barrel and a 17rd mag in California. The 2019 LEOSA Reform Act is a bill that was submitted to Congress and addresses some of these issues. So the question about long guns is a legitimate issue. LEOSA’s legislative history, as well as in some cases addressing the intention of the law as to the definition of firearm, may demonstrate that LEOSA applies to all firearms except those specifically exempted in the law. However, those qualified under LEOSA must be aware of the current laws of their state on which firearms are permitted to be carried concealed. Although LEOSA is a federal law and as such preempts any state law, qualified individuals should avoid getting themselves in a criminal prosecution that may or may not end up being dismissed since at the moment there is no Federal ruling on whether or not the carrying long guns are exempt from state law via LEOSA. Since LEOSA is an Affirmative Defense. The only way to get a definitive answer is to have someone charged with violating a state law and it goes before a Federal Appeals Court and the court rules in the defendant's favor. |
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Quoted: Go join a local PD, Sheriff's Department, or Constable. Get your basic LE cert and you can carry in NYC just like those NYPD officers went through the NYS version to get their basic LE cert and got hired. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: NYPD can carry on vacation in Texas but a Texan with LTC can't carry in NYC. https://pitjournal.unc.edu/sites/default/files/styles/img_article/public/field/image/Animal_farm.jpg Attached File |
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