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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:25:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GM cannot fire strikers. GM cannot dump the union. Only a vote of employees in unionized positions can decertify a union. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:25:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about cut management's pay and put them into the GM retirement plan? If they don't like it, they can... oh, wait. They get taken care of by their buddies on the BoD. 
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:30:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:32:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Might have, I'm not familiar with the railroad industry. I know it's quasi-government owned, so it could be a different beast. My example above is how things have worked out for the UAW in the past 20 years or so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish they would just hold a hiring conference in another city to replace all these greedy bastards Nothing prevents GM from hiring a bunch of temps, sending salaried employees to the production line, and resuming operations as normal. Union gets locked out, strike goes on for years, and the UAW runs out of money. The few remaining picketers can either retire or go back to work at 1/2 pay. Cat defeated the UAW in the late 90s this way, and so could GM - if only it had the balls. Without a contract in place, GM has no obligation to use union labor. My example above is how things have worked out for the UAW in the past 20 years or so. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:33:54 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
good. They should fire them all and hire non union workers who want to be a part of the GM team, not the UAW team. Came down to "show up tomorrow or be replaced". The vast majority showed up for work. Ironically CAT is a UAW shop. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:35:57 AM EDT
[#6]
They’ll still get their yearly bonus this Christmas and the technicians fixing these crybabies mistakes will lose money doing so.
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In to see how many union haters, have union built vehicles in their driveways. Here’s a list of union built items that union haters can avoid. 
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:43:44 AM EDT
[#8]
What makes firing them all any different than when the air traffic controllers were fired? If the laws have changed, how about an EO.
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:49:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm old enough to have heard the stories about my grandfather who died from working in a coal mine before the unions could improve the safety conditions. Management never even went into the mines. Communists made inroads into labor unions because greedy fucks in management opened the door for them. It sounds to me that you believe strongly in the ideals that created the unions, but due to the fog of nostalgia (and in this case, a strong family history), you might not fully see the unions for what they truly have become. The more I read, the more this scenario seems to correspond with what we've recently seen regarding the NRA. Just like many NRA supporters were unable to see past their memory of what the NRA once stood for, many here seem to support the unions of yesteryear and the good things that they have accomplished, but fail to see the worm that's eating the organization from the inside out. Unfortunately, just like the NRA, the worm has become too powerful to remove by any normal means. There are too many pockets being lined and too many hands in the cookie jar for those in charge to ever willingly relinquish command. Why would the BoD vote to end the corruption, when they're the ones benefiting from it? You would have to destroy the entire head of the organization, and possibly even a few more layers down depending on how deep the corruption goes, before you'll ever get to the point that it can be corrected or reversed. It's sad when you see these two organizations, both created solely for protecting people's rights, have now become nothing more than a giant ponzi scheme for the sole benefit of those in charge. Better keep paying your dues, boys! Those in charge are counting on you!
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:55:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every dollar they spend on strike pay ($12.5M per week) and COBRA (likely more than strike pay) is a dollar they can't give the Democrats. If the unions weren’t totally in bed with the Democrats, open borders, etc., perhaps many people would have a different opinion of them... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 12:55:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is wrong with contract negotiations? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? That's not negotiation - it's ransom. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:00:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Doesn’t Obama own GM?
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:01:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we're cheering for American manufacturing employees to have worse lives at the expense of a shitty corporation simply because they collectively bargain instead of individually and everyone voluntarily did this? Cool, got it. 
The private market should be allowed to sort this shit out. Don't want shit wages? Go work elsewhere... Oh, but then again, union aren't paid shit wages now are they... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:02:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then do it. Quit making excuses and go out and earn more money. You might make $15/hr at Walmart. Eventually. Your benefits will suck, your hours will suck, and your retirement will suck. And, unlike the cushy job at GM, Walmart can fire your ass at a moments notice, for any reason.
Companies should be able to fire you at any time, for any reason, as long as they're not breaking a contract or any other laws in the process. They should be no more beholden to employ you than you are beholden to work for them. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:12:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea, that’s a real alternative, right? Another tactic to get rid of someone was to transfer them with no notice, across the country. When you signed on, you agreed to work when and where the deemed necessary. If you did not take the xfer, you were terminated (with cause). |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:18:19 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes firing them all any different than when the air traffic controllers were fired? If the laws have changed, how about an EO. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:30:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In some businesses it really is an option. Literally shut a site down, pack up and move to open another site. Lay off all the local hires and xfer all the travelers. Come back later and reopen the site and get new locals. Another tactic to get rid of someone was to transfer them with no notice, across the country. When you signed on, you agreed to work when and where the deemed necessary. If you did not take the xfer, you were terminated (with cause). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Yea, that’s a real alternative, right? Another tactic to get rid of someone was to transfer them with no notice, across the country. When you signed on, you agreed to work when and where the deemed necessary. If you did not take the xfer, you were terminated (with cause). Olin calls workers' bluff: Ammo plant to Mississippi Nov. 4, 2010 EAST ALTON • The Olin Corp. said Wednesday that it will put its money where its mouth is — in Mississippi. A day after union workers rejected for a second time a contract that might have saved their jobs, the Metro East company told them it was moving about 1,000 ammunition production jobs from Metro East to Oxford, Miss. As members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 9 left the East Alton catering hall where the ballots were tallied Tuesday night, more than a few of the employees ventured that Olin was bluffing. The company, they maintained, had no intention of following through on its threat to move their jobs. On Wednesday, Olin called their bluff by announcing that it would build a 500,000-square-foot facility when it moves its ammunitions operations. ... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 1:59:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No; as stated I have ZERO info about GM/UAW. Assumed it was just a strike for better work place. Assumed wrong. I don't want to derail this thread so ill just read for info. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:20:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Every dollar they spend on strike pay ($12.5M per week) and COBRA (likely more than strike pay) is a dollar they can't give the Democrats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are idiots. This is a headline for "eff unions" Same Union has 850 million in strike funds, the interest of which will cover these members insurance. The UAW will get paid back for whatever they spend on strikes. It's a no win situation for GM. But hey, it sounds like a zinger right!  Fed law prohibits dues and other union funds from being donated to political causes. Tgat is why unions have PACS and that money can not come from dues and can not be mingked with dues money, it needs to be strictky donated voluntarily to the Political Action fund |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:27:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Explain to me how a company is forced to employ union workers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:38:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under what other circumstances can a person, or an entire group of people, cease working until their contract is renegotiated to their liking? Under what other circumstances could a person do this and not only retain their job, but somehow get paid for the time they weren't working, as well? Do you honestly consider this a fair example of "contract negotiations"?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What is wrong with contract negotiations? Do you honestly consider this a fair example of "contract negotiations"? Does anybody know why they are striking? What is the big issue? |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:42:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, not exactly. The legacy UAW membership is making top wages and benefits for the work they do. Wages/benefits aren't free, somebody got to pay for them, that's I don't care one way or another, I vowed to never buy another G/Ford/FCA vehicle and I meant it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So we're cheering for American manufacturing employees to have worse lives at the expense of a shitty corporation simply because they collectively bargain instead of individually and everyone voluntarily did this? Cool, got it. I don't care one way or another, I vowed to never buy another G/Ford/FCA vehicle and I meant it. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:46:23 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm a union worker. Just buy foreign. Fuck America am I right? When this country collapses, and when you're in the shit hole with the rest of us, I hope you can look back and think "I sure showed them!".
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:48:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it had nothing to do with management decisions to design and build pieces of crap, yes there have also been quality control issues with assembly, but it isnt all the union's fault that GM vehicles suck I would bet easily against a non union employee against a union employee that a union guy would be better than any non union. If you was in the trades it's not even an comparison, unless you're cheap and retarded. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:49:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UAW should burn through around $37.5 million per week that the strike is ongoing. They have an $850 million war chest. If GM can survive for 23 weeks, they'll bleed the UAW dry. I don't buy GM vehicles, but if they'd commit to go 23 weeks without agreeing to UAW terms, I'd donate to GM's cause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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GM has a few months inventory, nothing will happen until that is gone. Fuck GM They have an $850 million war chest. If GM can survive for 23 weeks, they'll bleed the UAW dry. I don't buy GM vehicles, but if they'd commit to go 23 weeks without agreeing to UAW terms, I'd donate to GM's cause. Nobody wins in a strike, but the union has the most to lose IMO |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:52:39 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that looks like it will happen, the UAW will institude additional dues on the workers of the other UAW represented companies to pay for it. Nobody wins in a strike, but the union has the most to lose IMO |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:52:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it had nothing to do with management decisions to design and build pieces of crap, yes there have also been quality control issues with assembly, but it isnt all the union's fault that GM vehicles suck What are your thoughts on the numerous examples of union bosses committing crimes like embezzlement, theft, and fraud? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/feds-investigating-current-and-former-uaw-union-bosses-for-yearslong-embezzlement-scheme *Edit* Jinxsters, I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:54:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Different money Fed law prohibits dues and other union funds from being donated to political causes. Tgat is why unions have PACS and that money can not come from dues and can not be mingked with dues money, it needs to be strictky donated voluntarily to the Political Action fund Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are idiots. This is a headline for "eff unions" Same Union has 850 million in strike funds, the interest of which will cover these members insurance. The UAW will get paid back for whatever they spend on strikes. It's a no win situation for GM. But hey, it sounds like a zinger right! Fed law prohibits dues and other union funds from being donated to political causes. Tgat is why unions have PACS and that money can not come from dues and can not be mingked with dues money, it needs to be strictky donated voluntarily to the Political Action fund Even if dues money doesn’t directly flow into a Democrats campaign coffer, it is completely delusional to think at least some of those dollars aren’t spent for the benefit of Dem politicians... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:56:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You seem to be a pro-union guy... What are your thoughts on the numerous examples of union bosses committing crimes like embezzlement, theft, and fraud? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/feds-investigating-current-and-former-uaw-union-bosses-for-yearslong-embezzlement-scheme *Edit* Jinxsters, I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 2:58:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a union worker. Just buy foreign. Fuck America am I right? When this country collapses, and when you're in the shit hole with the rest of us, I hope you can look back and think "I sure showed them!". So that is a stunningly stupid statement for you to make. Making America a shithole is the Democrats’ plan, which they are executing with the help of many unions... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:00:00 AM EDT
[#31]
Look Unions set the standards. Period. DO you think Toyota, Honda, etc, would pay as high as they do here in America do keep jobs in America if the UAW didn't fight for as high as standards as they do for us? Holy shit they have record breaking profits, and they still want to take it out of us, the PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE VEHICLE, AND GIVE THEM THEIR PROFIT, out of us. You think we're just going to be like "Okay pay us like we're in a third world country, while you make record profits"? Are you guys fucking high?
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:01:48 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fun fact: there are companies manufacturing stuff in America that aren’t union. (And foreign companies that are) So that is a stunningly stupid statement for you to make. Making America a shithole is the Democrats’ plan, which they are executing with the help of many unions... |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:01:53 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@40xb I have a serious question for you, and I hope this doesn't get passed over too quickly, considering how fast the thread is moving. Do you truly support modern unions and all that they stand for (including all of the bad things, such as Democratic donations, bribery, theft, embezzlement, threats, violence, vandalism, assault, etc...), or do you support the idea of unions as they once were, as seen through nostalgia-tinted glasses? You have been very staunch in your support of unions, but I've noticed an interesting similarity in your support of unions when compared to SWIRE's unwavering support from the NRA. In both examples, it seems to me that the idea of a union (or the NRA, in SWIRE's example) somehow means more to you than what the union actually accomplishes. More importantly, this nostalgic idea of what unions mean is somehow able to completely overshadow all of the horrible things they have done in recent history, things that are blatantly obvious to those not blinded by nostalgia. Just as WLP's rampant abuse of NRA funding was often overlooked, ignored, or even excused by the most staunch NRA supporters, the UAW's blatant history of wrongdoing by management (embezzlement, theft, fraud, etc...) never seems to get addressed by you. I understand completely if you truly support the idea of unions, and the ideals that they were intended to represent, but how can you in good conscience support the current UAW, given it's extensive and well-documented history of crooked union bosses, scams, and schemes? How do you justify supporting what is now essentially a criminal organization, and one that goes against our very constitutional rights? To me, the cancer at the top of the UAW is almost identical to the cancer that has consumed the NRA. How anyone can continue to support these organizations while they are rotten to the core is completely beyond me. I support the idea behind both, but only if they are completely purged of the rot and the filth that now consumes them, and then rebuilt to their once proud ideals. Even if the original cause was just, how can one continue to support an organization that is now ran almost entirely by criminals? |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:04:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is just as much if not more corruption and putting money to taking our rights by corporations ( management employees ) as there is by unions ( labor employees ). Reference Googke, Facebook, Walmart, Gillette, and many others. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:04:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They never do, negotiations are behind closed doors, and unless the union agrees to put it to a vote, the workers will never know what’s discussed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was thinking about this earlier, and have a theory on how this whole deal could play out. GM makes quite a few of their vehicles outside of the US, and since those plants are unaffected, they should have a pretty decent cash flow. If they hold out until mortgages start coming due, the paycheck to paycheck workers will be begging to come back, and will sign whatever GM offers them. So they see exactly what they are not accepting and they need to vote to go on strike At least where I am, that is how it works. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:08:58 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is just as much if not more corruption and putting money to taking our rights by corporations ( management employees ) as there is by unions ( labor employees ). Reference Googke, Facebook, Walmart, Gillette, and many others. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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@40xb I have a serious question for you, and I hope this doesn't get passed over too quickly, considering how fast the thread is moving. Do you truly support modern unions and all that they stand for (including all of the bad things, such as Democratic donations, bribery, theft, embezzlement, threats, violence, vandalism, assault, etc...), or do you support the idea of unions as they once were, as seen through nostalgia-tinted glasses? You have been very staunch in your support of unions, but I've noticed an interesting similarity in your support of unions when compared to SWIRE's unwavering support from the NRA. In both examples, it seems to me that the idea of a union (or the NRA, in SWIRE's example) somehow means more to you than what the union actually accomplishes. More importantly, this nostalgic idea of what unions mean is somehow able to completely overshadow all of the horrible things they have done in recent history, things that are blatantly obvious to those not blinded by nostalgia. Just as WLP's rampant abuse of NRA funding was often overlooked, ignored, or even excused by the most staunch NRA supporters, the UAW's blatant history of wrongdoing by management (embezzlement, theft, fraud, etc...) never seems to get addressed by you. I understand completely if you truly support the idea of unions, and the ideals that they were intended to represent, but how can you in good conscience support the current UAW, given it's extensive and well-documented history of crooked union bosses, scams, and schemes? How do you justify supporting what is now essentially a criminal organization, and one that goes against our very constitutional rights? To me, the cancer at the top of the UAW is almost identical to the cancer that has consumed the NRA. How anyone can continue to support these organizations while they are rotten to the core is completely beyond me. I support the idea behind both, but only if they are completely purged of the rot and the filth that now consumes them, and then rebuilt to their once proud ideals. Even if the original cause was just, how can one continue to support an organization that is now ran almost entirely by criminals? |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:10:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apparently, the UAW folks there want to strike as well. Ford, Fiat-Chrysler workers call for all-out strike alongside GM workers Do it!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So people shouldn't be able to associate with other people or groups freely? 1. Accept the terms we are giving 2. Counter with terms that are acceptable to GM 3. Pack your bags we will hire outside of the union. It's probably too early to know what either side is planning to do. Strikes can and have last(ed) days, months, or years. Yes, the UAW, has enough $$ to carry out a strike for the near term. Probably not for months or years though. And GM has just taken the first of its contigency planning steps - by pulling the UAWs healthcare funding. My money is on GM to win this one, but who knows? How long the UAW members can survive on $250 per week (which they will owe taxes on!) is another story. I'd be surprised if the UAW could make it more than 7 weeks (which would be two mortgage payments for most members). If so, they can’t burn it all on GM. Ford, Fiat-Chrysler workers call for all-out strike alongside GM workers Do it!! that is retarded |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:14:35 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lmfao, you talk like they're working in early 1900s America and go home to live in cardboard boxes
The private market should be allowed to sort this shit out. Don't want shit wages? Go work elsewhere... Oh, but then again, union aren't paid shit wages now are they... I hate what unions have become and what they have been for a long time. They did great things for working conditions, benefits, and working hours. My grandfather was an aircraft mechanic who worked on C130s. He worked for the same company (changed names a few times) for 30 plus years. When I was a kid, He and I roofed houses when he was on strike. One of the saddest days of my life was when I got a job doing power line construction at 21 years old. We were sitting at the kitchen table and he realized that I made more money. I made $14 per hour. (early 90s) he was an expert on the airframe and systems. He was in the Air Force in the late 50s and early 60s. He worked on C130s through the 90s. F@&k UAW and a special F@&@ you to the management who get rich being hypocrites. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:14:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes firing them all any different than when the air traffic controllers were fired? If the laws have changed, how about an EO. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:16:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I guess if one fuckhead does it everyone is guilty? Seriously, I thought we believed everyone is an individual on arfcom.
How many examples would you like?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-teamsters-boss-guilty-extort-20190730-eaxqre3b2vaufl36abcfypxgky-story.html?outputType=amp https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/08/23/former-union-boss-charged-massive-fraud-embezzlement-indictment/ https://amp.freep.com/amp/1005763001 https://www.unionfacts.com/article/crime-and-corruption/union-leader-fraud/ Google has plenty more examples to look at, if these aren't enough for you. 
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:19:34 AM EDT
[#41]
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Look Unions set the standards. Period. DO you think Toyota, Honda, etc, would pay as high as they do here in America do keep jobs in America if the UAW didn't fight for as high as standards as they do for us? Holy shit they have record breaking profits, and they still want to take it out of us, the PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE VEHICLE, AND GIVE THEM THEIR PROFIT, out of us. You think we're just going to be like "Okay pay us like we're in a third world country, while you make record profits"? Are you guys fucking high?
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:22:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about whats going on. From my no info point of view I see nothing funny of mocking men fighting for a better work environment and wage. should they just shut up taking less? Everything you dont like is a socialist right? The rights socalist is the lefts nazis. Shits old. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:24:04 AM EDT
[#43]
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You seem to be a pro-union guy... What are your thoughts on the numerous examples of union bosses committing crimes like embezzlement, theft, and fraud? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/feds-investigating-current-and-former-uaw-union-bosses-for-yearslong-embezzlement-scheme *Edit* Jinxsters, I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So it had nothing to do with management decisions to design and build pieces of crap, yes there have also been quality control issues with assembly, but it isnt all the union's fault that GM vehicles suck What are your thoughts on the numerous examples of union bosses committing crimes like embezzlement, theft, and fraud? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/feds-investigating-current-and-former-uaw-union-bosses-for-yearslong-embezzlement-scheme *Edit* Jinxsters, I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well. I am in a union but I am not a very pro union guy. Not even moderately pro union. In fact not pro union at all. The company ussually gets the union they deserve. But in the airline case there is a long history of air line management pressuring unsafe and illegal decisions with job consequences due to bean counting and the FAA enforcement on pilots for following FAA rules. So pilots are stuck in the middle. Fortunately I work for a company that does not pressure their pilots and will not second guess my safety decisions for the most part. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:25:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Going on strike because they want more job security.... That always struck me as odd.
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:27:57 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So are you saying that you are against companies making a profit, or that you feel entitled to your fair share of their profits? |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:28:09 AM EDT
[#46]
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Wow - some day you should look up the difference between theory and practice. Even if dues money doesn’t directly flow into a Democrats campaign coffer, it is completely delusional to think at least some of those dollars aren’t spent for the benefit of Dem politicians... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are idiots. This is a headline for "eff unions" Same Union has 850 million in strike funds, the interest of which will cover these members insurance. The UAW will get paid back for whatever they spend on strikes. It's a no win situation for GM. But hey, it sounds like a zinger right! Fed law prohibits dues and other union funds from being donated to political causes. Tgat is why unions have PACS and that money can not come from dues and can not be mingked with dues money, it needs to be strictky donated voluntarily to the Political Action fund Even if dues money doesn’t directly flow into a Democrats campaign coffer, it is completely delusional to think at least some of those dollars aren’t spent for the benefit of Dem politicians... It is a myth. On the other hand plenty of fools voluntarily give money to the PACs so they have plenty. Maybe you coukd give soecific examples of dues money being dpent to benefit politicians. I know of none. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:29:31 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Going on strike because they want more job security.... That always struck me as odd. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:31:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is corruption and greed on both sides. I am in a union but I am not a very pro union guy. Not even moderately pro union. In fact not pro union at all. The company ussually gets the union they deserve. But in the airline case there is a long history of air line management pressuring unsafe and illegal decisions with job consequences due to bean counting and the FAA enforcement on pilots for following FAA rules. So pilots are stuck in the middle. Fortunately I work for a company that does not pressure their pilots and will not second guess my safety decisions for the most part. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:33:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...and many people here don’t support those companies, either, for one of the same big reasons: those companies support stripping away rights. So that’s not a logical counter argument... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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@40xb I have a serious question for you, and I hope this doesn't get passed over too quickly, considering how fast the thread is moving. Do you truly support modern unions and all that they stand for (including all of the bad things, such as Democratic donations, bribery, theft, embezzlement, threats, violence, vandalism, assault, etc...), or do you support the idea of unions as they once were, as seen through nostalgia-tinted glasses? You have been very staunch in your support of unions, but I've noticed an interesting similarity in your support of unions when compared to SWIRE's unwavering support from the NRA. In both examples, it seems to me that the idea of a union (or the NRA, in SWIRE's example) somehow means more to you than what the union actually accomplishes. More importantly, this nostalgic idea of what unions mean is somehow able to completely overshadow all of the horrible things they have done in recent history, things that are blatantly obvious to those not blinded by nostalgia. Just as WLP's rampant abuse of NRA funding was often overlooked, ignored, or even excused by the most staunch NRA supporters, the UAW's blatant history of wrongdoing by management (embezzlement, theft, fraud, etc...) never seems to get addressed by you. I understand completely if you truly support the idea of unions, and the ideals that they were intended to represent, but how can you in good conscience support the current UAW, given it's extensive and well-documented history of crooked union bosses, scams, and schemes? How do you justify supporting what is now essentially a criminal organization, and one that goes against our very constitutional rights? To me, the cancer at the top of the UAW is almost identical to the cancer that has consumed the NRA. How anyone can continue to support these organizations while they are rotten to the core is completely beyond me. I support the idea behind both, but only if they are completely purged of the rot and the filth that now consumes them, and then rebuilt to their once proud ideals. Even if the original cause was just, how can one continue to support an organization that is now ran almost entirely by criminals? How many people here continue to support those companies and let's not forget Paypal on the EE even. I try not to support any of those companies if I can help it. I try not to support corruot unions if I can help it too. I am just pointing out that corrupt unions are not solely the problem as many here would claim. |
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Posted: 9/18/2019 3:35:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you don’t actually know if GM could hire non-union replacements? But you speak with such authority.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My current job is the first time I have ever been in a union of any form or really around one at all. So my experience is limited. |
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