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Posted: 8/5/2013 6:58:48 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a POWERFUL message............ Yes it is. I have no reason to doubt it. |
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Posted: 8/5/2013 7:06:19 PM EST
[#2]
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Yes it is. I have no reason to doubt it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's a POWERFUL message............ Yes it is. I have no reason to doubt it. me either -Gen NUCdt04 Supreme Allied commander of NATO, leader of the Mongol horde, and ruler of the north |
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Posted: 8/5/2013 8:18:53 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are never going to defeat them like Germany or Japan, all you can hope for is to beat them down every now and then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Couldn't that be done by bombing the terrorist camps with B52's? It's not like we did not know where they were at and what they were doing. I must be confused because I'm pretty sure that is what they have been doing all along. Come to Afgan to fignt for a bit flow back into Paki for some R&R, rearm and then come back and fight some more. You are giving it two years? That place will be back in Taliban control in three months or less.You can bet your ass anyone in the Afgan .govt that could line their pockets has done so, the French/Swiss accounts are ready and their exit plan is in place. You can't bomb an enemy into defeat...... We are never going to defeat them like Germany or Japan, all you can hope for is to beat them down every now and then. |
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Posted: 8/5/2013 8:30:31 PM EST
[#4]
And it's all enabled by our own terrible leadership, where a lieutenant is telling a captain that things are shitty, the captain is telling the lieutenant colonel that things are shitty, and then the lieutenant colonel is telling the colonel that we're winning hearts, battles, and shitting rainbow sherbert. Things just get cheerier up the chain from there. People who don't go along to get along get gone in a hurry. This, combined the Afghans absolute willingness to lie, cheat and steal from us until we finally leave has just magnified the disastrous results of our policies there.
My view on Afghanistan has always been that we (conventional forces) never should have been there. I think the brass that didn't get to "lead troops in combat" in Iraq had hurt feelings and rumbled enough to where all of a sudden we're deploying armor brigades with no armor to Afghanistan. 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 3:33:20 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My view on Afghanistan has always been that we (conventional forces) never should have been there. I think the brass that didn't get to "lead troops in combat" in Iraq had hurt feelings and rumbled enough to where all of a sudden we're deploying armor brigades with no armor to Afghanistan. That's more of an indictment of our military than our political leadership, isn't it? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:34:59 AM EST
[#6]
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I think the brass that didn't get to "lead troops in combat" in Iraq had hurt feelings and rumbled enough to where all of a sudden we're deploying armor brigades with no armor to Afghanistan. Actually, with troop levels in Afghanistan surging and the pullout of Iraq those armored BCT's had to pick up some of the slack. If we deployed all of our light assets at once in AFG who would RIP with them if we weren't using mech units there? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:35:46 AM EST
[#7]
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There was nothing to bomb. Other than TICs, there isn't anything to bomb, now. Nothing that would make anyone give up. Warden's Five Rings of Doom doesn't mean shit to people, here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I agree with him. Give military commanders 90 days to destroy any and all military or government infrastructure, then leave. There was nothing to bomb. Other than TICs, there isn't anything to bomb, now. Nothing that would make anyone give up. Warden's Five Rings of Doom doesn't mean shit to people, here. Government buildings, ammunition depots, banks, factories, vehicles, medical facilities. Destroy salvage yards, drug processing areas, raze opium crops. Leave. Of there's not much there the it shouldn't take long, |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:38:43 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a POWERFUL message............ And the message is DON'T FUCKING NATIONBUILD Get in, kill the fuckers that need killing, get out. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:42:04 AM EST
[#9]
The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle.
I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:57:39 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. I don't think those are necessarily comparable. Both Countries has recently been superpowers and developed nationas (despite germanys economic issues) we weren't starting from an apocalyptic wasteland. I don't think our world would have been better off long term, just different, but major mistakes were made in the German split and in the Japanese economy. I would say that if Germany had ended up part of the soviet block they would likely not have the ability to stabilize Europe financially. That's assuming in alternate reality planet that anyone pitches the euro zone. At the end f the day, no nation building effort could ever be perfect - but like my ex brother in law, Afghanistan should have never been talked about as something that there was enough money in the world to fix. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 4:58:06 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. Those enemies were civilized modern cultures. Brutal but also civilized. Do you really think the Afghanis are capable of being civilized as a whole? Having industry and such? Just wondering. I never been there (only Iraq and that was back in 91). |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 5:52:10 AM EST
[#12]
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Government buildings, ammunition depots, banks, factories, vehicles, medical facilities. Destroy salvage yards, drug processing areas, raze opium crops. Leave. Of there's not much there the it shouldn't take long, Of all of the facilities you state, none of that really existed in Afghanistan in 2001. Except for opium, which would have required a multi-brigade response, for minimal success, and it would have faced a generalized uprising. Honestly, you're suggesting cowing the people of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, and Kansas by forcing starvation onto their families (most of whom don't know who the Taliban is, who Osama Bin Laden is or what the World Trade Center was, and then expecting them to just say, "Oh, OK, that's cool." |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 6:18:09 AM EST
[#13]
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+ If I could.....would that make me a Christian? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They may not be able to read it, as a vast majority of Muslims cannot. However many can recite it from memory in classic Arabic, although even most Arabs cannot understand classic Arabic. I can quote the bible...........  Can you recite the whole thing in a say latin from memory? + If I could.....would that make me a Christian? no. Even Satan can recite the Bible. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 6:29:23 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 6:33:24 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of all of the facilities you state, none of that really existed in Afghanistan in 2001. Except for opium, which would have required a multi-brigade response, for minimal success, and it would have faced a generalized uprising. Honestly, you're suggesting cowing the people of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, and Kansas by forcing starvation onto their families (most of whom don't know who the Taliban is, who Osama Bin Laden is or what the World Trade Center was, and then expecting them to just say, "Oh, OK, that's cool." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Government buildings, ammunition depots, banks, factories, vehicles, medical facilities. Destroy salvage yards, drug processing areas, raze opium crops. Leave. Of there's not much there the it shouldn't take long, Of all of the facilities you state, none of that really existed in Afghanistan in 2001. Except for opium, which would have required a multi-brigade response, for minimal success, and it would have faced a generalized uprising. Honestly, you're suggesting cowing the people of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, and Kansas by forcing starvation onto their families (most of whom don't know who the Taliban is, who Osama Bin Laden is or what the World Trade Center was, and then expecting them to just say, "Oh, OK, that's cool." Sure there were. Most of the militant strongholds had the fuck bombed out of them, or were seized by the northern alliance. I understand the personnel it would take to comb the country looking for that stuff. Destroy what exists that you know about or can find, then leave. Use air and signal surveillance for the next few months to determine if there's anything else worth fucking up. Forcing starvation on their families? That shit ain't new to those people. Who gives a fuck if they think its cool. Shower them with psyop picture pamphlets for simple kids. Will a 30-90 speed round really hurt thepeoplemof Afghanistan more than 13 years of fucking pussy footing with a changing leadership and strategy shift every four to six months? (I'm including overall "strategy changes" that happened during every single RIP at the company, battalion, bde, div, RC, and theater levels.) If afghans can do one thing, its adapt to a shit life and squeak by. We're hurting them more by changing their shit lives ever few months while throwing the tax money of Americans into the black hole of thei thirdiest of worlds. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 6:58:18 AM EST
[#16]
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Sure there were. Most of the militant strongholds had the fuck bombed out of them, or were seized by the northern alliance. I understand the personnel it would take to comb the country looking for that stuff. Destroy what exists that you know about or can find, then leave. Use air and signal surveillance for the next few months to determine if there's anything else worth fucking up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure there were. Most of the militant strongholds had the fuck bombed out of them, or were seized by the northern alliance. I understand the personnel it would take to comb the country looking for that stuff. Destroy what exists that you know about or can find, then leave. Use air and signal surveillance for the next few months to determine if there's anything else worth fucking up. No, there really wasn't. Believe what you want. Forcing starvation on their families? That shit ain't new to those people. Who gives a fuck if they think its cool. Shower them with psyop picture pamphlets for simple kids. I'm all for total war, but shit, let's have a reason, at least. If 30 Gangster Disciples had gone to Pakistan, and Pakistan had reponded by starving 1/3 of the US to death, I don't give a fuck what started the war at that point. If you don't think that the Pashtoon have a similar calculus, you're dead wrong. Your starvation plan, while emotionally appealing, doesn't get us any closer to ending the war on our terms than before. Will a 30-90 speed round really hurt thepeoplemof Afghanistan more than 13 years of fucking pussy footing with a changing leadership and strategy shift every four to six months? (I'm including overall "strategy changes" that happened during every single RIP at the company, battalion, bde, div, RC, and theater levels.) More hoo-ah bullshit. Again, if we can't do a COIN campaign, what makes you think a bombing campaign, at great remove, would ANY other effect that coalesing the population around the Taliban, the Taliban around the majority of Muslims and all of them violently against us. If afghans can do one thing, its adapt to a shit life and squeak by. We're hurting them more by changing their shit lives ever few months while throwing the tax money of Americans into the black hole of thei thirdiest of worlds. Your argument is that we either starve them to death, or not touch them. The undecided Pashtoon population is the center of gravity in this war. The fact that the Army was too dumb to see it isn't the fault of the Pashtoons, its ours, and no bombing campaign would have fixed the fundamental misunderstanding of much of the .mil. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:10:13 AM EST
[#17]
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No, there really wasn't. Believe what you want. I'm all for total war, but shit, let's have a reason, at least. If 30 Gangster Disciples had gone to Pakistan, and Pakistan had reponded by starving 1/3 of the US to death, I don't give a fuck what started the war at that point. If you don't think that the Pashtoon have a similar calculus, you're dead wrong. Your starvation plan, while emotionally appealing, doesn't get us any closer to ending the war on our terms than before. More hoo-ah bullshit. Again, if we can't do a COIN campaign, what makes you think a bombing campaign, at great remove, would ANY other effect that coalesing the population around the Taliban, the Taliban around the majority of Muslims and all of them violently against us. Your argument is that we either starve them to death, or not touch them. The undecided Pashtoon population is the center of gravity in this war. The fact that the Army was too dumb to see it isn't the fault of the Pashtoons, its ours, and no bombing campaign would have fixed the fundamental misunderstanding of much of the .mil. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sure there were. Most of the militant strongholds had the fuck bombed out of them, or were seized by the northern alliance. I understand the personnel it would take to comb the country looking for that stuff. Destroy what exists that you know about or can find, then leave. Use air and signal surveillance for the next few months to determine if there's anything else worth fucking up. No, there really wasn't. Believe what you want. Forcing starvation on their families? That shit ain't new to those people. Who gives a fuck if they think its cool. Shower them with psyop picture pamphlets for simple kids. I'm all for total war, but shit, let's have a reason, at least. If 30 Gangster Disciples had gone to Pakistan, and Pakistan had reponded by starving 1/3 of the US to death, I don't give a fuck what started the war at that point. If you don't think that the Pashtoon have a similar calculus, you're dead wrong. Your starvation plan, while emotionally appealing, doesn't get us any closer to ending the war on our terms than before. Will a 30-90 speed round really hurt thepeoplemof Afghanistan more than 13 years of fucking pussy footing with a changing leadership and strategy shift every four to six months? (I'm including overall "strategy changes" that happened during every single RIP at the company, battalion, bde, div, RC, and theater levels.) More hoo-ah bullshit. Again, if we can't do a COIN campaign, what makes you think a bombing campaign, at great remove, would ANY other effect that coalesing the population around the Taliban, the Taliban around the majority of Muslims and all of them violently against us. If afghans can do one thing, its adapt to a shit life and squeak by. We're hurting them more by changing their shit lives ever few months while throwing the tax money of Americans into the black hole of thei thirdiest of worlds. Your argument is that we either starve them to death, or not touch them. The undecided Pashtoon population is the center of gravity in this war. The fact that the Army was too dumb to see it isn't the fault of the Pashtoons, its ours, and no bombing campaign would have fixed the fundamental misunderstanding of much of the .mil. I never said starve them to death. I said bomb government and military infrastructure. What exactly were we dropping bombs on then, and why didn't we leave afterwards (aside from congress  )
But i didn't say anything like "drive around and rip up all water pumps and tell people they could have em back when they gave me info about the Taliban" (any 10th mtn here?) Eta- I agree with having a reason. I would have been fine with bombing training camps, clandestine and covert operations to disrupt cash flow and transit of Hvi's, and possibly clearing out the countries central banks (don't remember if they had one.) |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:12:06 AM EST
[#18]
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Apease the muslims. that is what Obama is doing. That's because he is a muslum. <CoC #1> |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:16:31 AM EST
[#19]
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free men or statists... pick your side. OK I've chosen..... 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:23:47 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? They have been waiting for that, so a few more attacks to fuel their propaganda machine.... Wont take long at all 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:39:58 AM EST
[#21]
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Actually, with troop levels in Afghanistan surging and the pullout of Iraq those armored BCT's had to pick up some of the slack. If we deployed all of our light assets at once in AFG who would RIP with them if we weren't using mech units there? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think the brass that didn't get to "lead troops in combat" in Iraq had hurt feelings and rumbled enough to where all of a sudden we're deploying armor brigades with no armor to Afghanistan. Actually, with troop levels in Afghanistan surging and the pullout of Iraq those armored BCT's had to pick up some of the slack. If we deployed all of our light assets at once in AFG who would RIP with them if we weren't using mech units there? There never should have been that quantity of conventional forces in Afghanistan to begin with. The fact that we were having to send armor brigades is just a consequence of a bad strategy. The goals we should have had could have been conducted with Special Operations forces supported by a decent amount of light fighters (for security.) Instead we brought war (and wasted money\lives) to people across the vast majority of Afghanistan who had no idea what 9/11 was. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:44:34 AM EST
[#22]
Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan.
For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 7:45:30 AM EST
[#23]
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You win Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Holy hell. An anonymous post to a blog that pretty much says what everyone has known about Afghanistan since _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_ was written by TE Lawrence. I need to get to the fainting couch! You win |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 8:02:02 AM EST
[#24]
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Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan. For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" Update your rant |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 8:06:49 AM EST
[#25]
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Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan. For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" Its September 12, 2001. What does Cyborg543 do? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 8:11:47 AM EST
[#26]
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Its September 12, 2001. What does Cyborg543 do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan. For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" Its September 12, 2001. What does Cyborg543 do? Throw cats at recruiting offices? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 8:54:42 AM EST
[#27]
Was shooting on a 600 yd range a few years back. The older guy next to me, shooting a heavily modified AR. We start talking and he tells me he started shooting in the late 70s/early 80s "cause the reds were gonna come over the border...LOL" He chuckled at the humor of his former belief. Now he shoots for fun.
It made me think that just about every generation thinks their generation is THE GENERATION that will preside over the end. I felt that way myself in my 20s and 30s. Now I think the truth is far more banal, and MUCH less exciting. It will be a slow descent, not a nose dive into a mountain. This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper. T.S.Eliot This post makes me think of this.... |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 8:58:54 AM EST
[#28]
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is it wrong that laughed at this? I'd do it again, too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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As a military officer I agree with my fellow soldier. I hope the time to free America comes soon. Really??? What's your MOS? http://offload.goarmy.com/soldier-life/becoming-a-soldier/advanced-individual-training/quartermaster/jcr:content/contentpar/header.png The Kid whispers to the female Captain "And then he puts it where I poop..." is it wrong that laughed at this? I'd do it again, too. Welcome 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 9:53:08 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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As a military officer I agree with my fellow soldier. I hope the time to free America comes soon. Really??? What's your MOS? http://offload.goarmy.com/soldier-life/becoming-a-soldier/advanced-individual-training/quartermaster/jcr:content/contentpar/header.png Look at that sexy NTM-A left sleeve action! 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:01:16 AM EST
[#30]
I regard anonymous letters from highly placed "sources" to be BS, no matter how plausible, and no matter how much I agree.
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:06:02 AM EST
[#31]
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How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:08:22 AM EST
[#32]
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I regard anonymous letters from highly placed "sources" to be BS, no matter how plausible, and no matter how much I agree. He's not highly placed, just some Captain that sees the same stuff we all see. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:15:32 AM EST
[#33]
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No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. So what's your (revisonist, not in the bad way) timeline and solution? Do you think avoiding Iraq would have had a profound difference on the AFG conflict? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:18:02 AM EST
[#34]
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He's not highly placed, just some Captain college student that sees the same stuff we all see regurgitates Popular talking points. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I regard anonymous letters from highly placed "sources" to be BS, no matter how plausible, and no matter how much I agree. He's not highly placed, just some Captain college student that sees the same stuff we all see regurgitates Popular talking points. FIFY |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 10:25:19 AM EST
[#35]
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So what's your (revisonist, not in the bad way) timeline and solution? Do you think avoiding Iraq would have had a profound difference on the AFG conflict? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The genius of the American model of the post war world was to acknowledge that revenge only perpetuates a never ending conflict cycle. I get a kick out of those making Japan and Germany references. We kissed both countries asses, provided them guarantees of security, and built them up as allies - often much to the chagrin of many of our allies from the war. If anyone seriously thinks we should have nuked Japan and left them to the Soviets, or put Germany under another regime of reparations, and our world would have been better off long term, I have a bridge to sell you. How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. So what's your (revisonist, not in the bad way) timeline and solution? Do you think avoiding Iraq would have had a profound difference on the AFG conflict? Interesting question. I don't think so. If anything, Iraq prepared us to better handle Afganistan. of course, the asinine shit we did in one carried off to the other as well. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 12:59:44 PM EST
[#36]
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Throw cats at recruiting offices? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan. For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" Its September 12, 2001. What does Cyborg543 do? Throw cats at recruiting offices? So we're all done paying? Isn't that swell? Jim fuckin dandy "total cost of the war to the U.S. economy is estimated to be $6 trillion, including interest rates, by 2053." SIX TRILLION GWB said the war would cost X. Some people said it was going to cost 3X and that made all the RINO warhawks angry and start their namecalling The people who said the war was going to cost 3X turned out to be dead wrong, it cost 120X. EVER HAD THE VAGUE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED OVER? All that modern politics amounts to is keeping a tribe of illiterate morons in a high state of spirits while you shit on them. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 1:37:04 PM EST
[#37]
A projection of cost 40 years out is meaningless; it is nothing more than a swag
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Posted: 8/6/2013 1:39:35 PM EST
[#38]
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FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I regard anonymous letters from highly placed "sources" to be BS, no matter how plausible, and no matter how much I agree. He's not highly placed, just some Captain college student that sees the same stuff we all see regurgitates Popular talking points. FIFY Yeah ok. 
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Posted: 8/6/2013 1:42:11 PM EST
[#39]
We seemed to have learned nothing from the Russians..kill the folks that attacked us and go home you cannot change a culture..
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:01:35 PM EST
[#40]
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So we're all done paying? Isn't that swell? Jim fuckin dandy "total cost of the war to the U.S. economy is estimated to be $6 trillion, including interest rates, by 2053." SIX TRILLION GWB said the war would cost X. Some people said it was going to cost 3X and that made all the RINO warhawks angry and start their namecalling The people who said the war was going to cost 3X turned out to be dead wrong, it cost 120X. EVER HAD THE VAGUE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED OVER? All that modern politics amounts to is keeping a tribe of illiterate morons in a high state of spirits while you shit on them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Throw cats at recruiting offices? So we're all done paying? Isn't that swell? Jim fuckin dandy "total cost of the war to the U.S. economy is estimated to be $6 trillion, including interest rates, by 2053." SIX TRILLION GWB said the war would cost X. Some people said it was going to cost 3X and that made all the RINO warhawks angry and start their namecalling The people who said the war was going to cost 3X turned out to be dead wrong, it cost 120X. EVER HAD THE VAGUE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED OVER? All that modern politics amounts to is keeping a tribe of illiterate morons in a high state of spirits while you shit on them. you are correct, it's too expensive to fight our enemies.
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:26:16 PM EST
[#41]
ISAF has had 15 different commanders.
Department of State has had 9 different Ambassadors to Afghanistan. How do you carry out a long term plan with so many changes in leadership in 11 years? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:36:28 PM EST
[#42]
The US at the height of the Surge in Iraq had 165,000 service personnel in country. The bulk of them in Iraq and the "rings" around it. Iraq didn't have the terrain and didn't have a FATA on its border.
We never made the commitment to Afghanistan that was necessary to carry out an effective counter-insurgency. Like all things American we tried to appease the hawks and the doves all at the same time so that's why our counter-insurgency "nation building" will fail in Afghanistan. However, it's not a total loss and it wasn't all for nothing. We were able to seriously disrupt the operations of Al Qaeda and strike at their leadership in ways we never did prior to our Invasion of Afghanistan. Our control of Afghan air bases has also afforded us the ability to collect high value intelligence from Iran. Pakistan, and perhaps China. The conflict has been good for our Defense and Aerospace industry, which offers the highest ROI for our tax dollars in terms of real GDP. It's not on us if Afghanistan becomes a failed state. The "you broke it you bought it" statement doesn't apply to Afghanistan since it was broke well before we showed up. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:36:52 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ISAF has had 15 different commanders. Department of State has had 9 different Ambassadors to Afghanistan. How do you carry out a long term plan with so many changes in leadership in 11 years? The problem in Afghanistan is that we allied with the most useless and unreliable fuck-ups in town. Afghan forces are nothing but shit.
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:39:33 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we're all done paying? Isn't that swell? Jim fuckin dandy "total cost of the war to the U.S. economy is estimated to be $6 trillion, including interest rates, by 2053." SIX TRILLION GWB said the war would cost X. Some people said it was going to cost 3X and that made all the RINO warhawks angry and start their namecalling The people who said the war was going to cost 3X turned out to be dead wrong, it cost 120X. EVER HAD THE VAGUE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED OVER? All that modern politics amounts to is keeping a tribe of illiterate morons in a high state of spirits while you shit on them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't worry guys, we're only pissing away one billion dollars a day on Iraq and Afhanistan. For forever So what if the whole thing is a giant fiasco? blame it on the "hippies" Its September 12, 2001. What does Cyborg543 do? Throw cats at recruiting offices? So we're all done paying? Isn't that swell? Jim fuckin dandy "total cost of the war to the U.S. economy is estimated to be $6 trillion, including interest rates, by 2053." SIX TRILLION GWB said the war would cost X. Some people said it was going to cost 3X and that made all the RINO warhawks angry and start their namecalling The people who said the war was going to cost 3X turned out to be dead wrong, it cost 120X. EVER HAD THE VAGUE FEELING YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED OVER? All that modern politics amounts to is keeping a tribe of illiterate morons in a high state of spirits while you shit on them. When did "GWB" announce the war would cost a certain amount? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:47:49 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We seemed to have learned nothing from the Russians..kill the folks that attacked us and go home you cannot change a culture.. Cultures change and have changed throughout history. The influence of domination by major world powers over culture is an ever present reality of history. The Spanish forever changed much of Central and South America. Spanish culture itself was permanently influenced by the Moors, and before that heavily Roman. The Romans themselves were strongly influence by the Greeks, and vice versa. The Greeks left their cultural mark as far away as, well, Afghanistan. As for the Russians, tell me what you know about the Khanates of Khiva or Kokand. The Emirate of Bukhara? |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 2:52:19 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. I'm all for killing bad guys, they bring more bad guys, we are never going to win so long as the Pakis protect the sources of supplies and fighters routes. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 3:07:53 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We seemed to have learned nothing from the Russians..kill the folks that attacked us and go home you cannot change a culture.. Considering that was most definately NOT what the Russians did, I'd consider your handle on recent Afghan history suspect. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 3:10:29 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for killing bad guys, they bring more bad guys, we are never going to win so long as the Pakis protect the sources of supplies and fighters routes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How long will it take for the Taliban to take it back over after we leave? No clue. But our inability to get it right does not negate what is right and what works. I'm all for killing bad guys, they bring more bad guys, we are never going to win so long as the Pakis protect the sources of supplies and fighters routes. But the PakMil haven't nearly as much since 2008, to the point of letting us conduct a highly unpopular bombing campaign in their country. So, now that the biggest condition to a better peace than the skids of our helicopters presents itself, rock-ribbed defenders of the US say "Pull OUT!" like Cindy Sheehan. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 3:11:26 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cultures change and have changed throughout history. The influence of domination by major world powers over culture is an ever present reality of history. The Spanish forever changed much of Central and South America. Spanish culture itself was permanently influenced by the Moors, and before that heavily Roman. The Romans themselves were strongly influence by the Greeks, and vice versa. The Greeks left their cultural mark as far away as, well, Afghanistan. As for the Russians, tell me what you know about the Khanates of Khiva or Kokand. The Emirate of Bukhara? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We seemed to have learned nothing from the Russians..kill the folks that attacked us and go home you cannot change a culture.. Cultures change and have changed throughout history. The influence of domination by major world powers over culture is an ever present reality of history. The Spanish forever changed much of Central and South America. Spanish culture itself was permanently influenced by the Moors, and before that heavily Roman. The Romans themselves were strongly influence by the Greeks, and vice versa. The Greeks left their cultural mark as far away as, well, Afghanistan. As for the Russians, tell me what you know about the Khanates of Khiva or Kokand. The Emirate of Bukhara? Or, lets compare and contrast say...Switzerland pre Confederation and Afghanistan in local and regional terms. |
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Posted: 8/6/2013 3:18:17 PM EST
[#50]
Frankly, as long as we have access to Afghanistan to conduct Counter-Terrorist operations we're MUCH better off than we were pre-9/11.
If we're going to nation build we should concentrate on our own hemisphere where the bulk of our economic trade takes place. Mexico is a failed socialist state and we should go in and start to put it right. Why legalize million of illegals when it would be better for them and the USA to liberate Mexico from its corrupt narco funded government? That might be an investment worth making and would certainly have economic benefits. |
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