The both of you have very good points.

But, given that recessions are fueled by excesses, and besides for a select few real estate markets, I am not seeing excess.

Sure, excessively low unemployment on paper, IMO not really, my POV is that the boomers are skewing the workforce because they didn't save enough and still have to work or choose to still work, remember for a lot of boomers work is what defined them.

Until they either retire or die, those vacancies won't need to be filled by new blood paying half the wages but 3/2s the person.

In order for me to get into defense mode I need to see excesses along with other indicators.

It's sad to see the "US vs Them mentality" that goes on between Boomers and Millennial's.

For the most part you see that Millennial's accept responsibility for the public image we have, and while some fit the stereotype others don't and work hard to have a better life. I think a lot of us are trying to be responsible adults, and are working hard to secure our future with the unfortunate reality's of 2018. There are also the people who fit the category of "me me me" and want it all handed to them without any effort.

Boomers for the most part only want to sit back, and call us all lazy gender studies losers who deserve to be homeless and are all "Bernesters". You refuse to acknowledge that things are drastically different then when you were our age, and continue to chastise us for mistakes that were made during your generation's control.

Either way, the reality for us is different. It's not that I don't want a house, or a retirement account that's filled with money for when I can finally stop working, it's unobtainable for a lot of people right now. I personally started working at 12 to help my Boomer dad's business survive because he was a poor steward of his money. I sacrificed my education and career goals to keep my parents from filing bankruptcy for many years. I got Crohn's at 16 and my best chance at a good life vanished overnight. I personally would have loved to follow my dreams and joined the Marines at 18 but the reality was that it would never happen. Instead I got to keep working for my dad, to keep him and my mother from loosing their house after they had the bright idea to keep opening antique shops in the fucking rescission. It was my choice, but how many of you would walk away from loving parents who needed you? My dad lives paycheck to paycheck to this day and for the longest time that meant that I was paid when he was. And that meant that I could go 3 weeks without seeing any money, and then get a chunk at once. But you can't exactly save anything when bill's pile up and you have to dip into savings to pay what's owed and when you do get a chunk I would save it all for the next drought. Now admittedly this was largely my fault for not doing what's best for myself and walking away, finishing college and getting a job with a steady income.

The sad thing is that I know my dad, and even with his failing health he would keep doing the same thing until the day he died (probably at work) leaving me and my brother with a mountain of debt and myself without any fallback. That's why last year I went back to school to become a welder. My wife contributes to her matching IRA but with both of us in school, the pile of monthly bills there simply isn't much left to think about retirement with. But even with that little bit that's left I have STILL managed to save thousands for a rainy day.

So it's not a black and white problem. Some people have it better, some people have it worse. Either way, the purchasing power of my dollar is not the same as what it was when you were my age. For fuck's sake were still charging what we were in the 2000's per job just to stay competitive.

This is another solid point. When I was desperate for work I got on at Macy's during "holiday help" and eventually worked my way up from price flexing to a commission sales job. The only problem was that 90% of the workforce were above 60 and had been working there for 18-19 years. They had the only full time jobs, and other older people who were managers set the hours. You can guess who always got 40 hrs plus overtime. There was not a SINGLE person under the age of 40 who worked there full time. We all got "part time" hours and were paid less than 10 an hour.

You see it all the time, from Boomers working fast food, to door greeters at WallMart. They have taken a LOT of jobs that traditionally would have gone to the younger workers in past generations. Imagine this Boomers. Remember that first job? Well imagine that you applied to 15 places and had still had no callbacks because a massive amount of Gen X's were desperate for work because the cost of living was so high that SS and retirement didn't cover the expenses you needed covered.

Read the * portion at the bottom.  There isn't much of a solution, it just sucks.  The only advice I'd give is to pursue companies too small for HR types to play those games, and who don't farm out their HR work to firms.  I got my current job cold-calling/cold-emailing CEOs of small businesses in the field & region I was interested in.  Six months in I got two bites, and one of them declared bankruptcy within days of responding that they'd pay most of my salary in stock options, lol.

Oh yeah; how'd you Boomers use all your stock options to pay your bills?  What, your employers paid you enough in cash that those sorts of Wimpy-style incentives weren't needed?

I will just mention something I read about during the Greek/Spanish/Italian debt crises;  apparently in Italy, government regulation on industries is so stifling that practically all of them only have ten or fewer nominal employees.  Everyone else is a temp contractor.  Moreover, due to the same sort of aging workforce issues we have, but far worse generational stagflation over there, the old geezers stay in the workforce as long as possible to keep the lights on.  The young folks have such a high demand for work, that they will work as *unpaid interns for YEARS* for these companies before earning a paying position.  Like, there's literal slavery going on, but with the understanding that you can earn your way out of bondage at some point.  But they don't starve to death, because the state provides assistance, as well as their families (though I suppose the family that slaves together, stays together)

That kind of crap is what I fear taking hold here, more than anything.

I'm still hoping the "Masters/PhD preferred" will go away for engineering jobs.  At 33 I have a BS in mechanical engineering and 10 years of experience in manufacturing.  Our resident PhD has about 3 years worth of experience in manufacturing, and 1.5 years in purchasing... He's currently telling me how he's an "expert" and i should learn from him.  The dude is a 47 year old joke...

"networking"*

*not with HR people

that's all that has worked for me, unfortunately O&G still isn't doing very well (economy in general isn't very good) and I can't leverage any of my dad's connections as I have in the past
(I've had no luck applying for retail or food service jobs)

from what I've heard, very few people in the engineering tech program I'm currently in were able to land a summer internship, I personally only know of 2 and neither of them are at O&G companies

I don't have anything saved for retirement yet.

No debt though.

Probably won't need student loans (thanks to the money I was saving as a down-payment for a place).

My goal is start earning six figures ASAP, preferably without having to leave Alberta (or Saskatchewan).

Don't forget about the trend to buy expensive cars with 60+ month loans.

That bubble is going to burst when people realize they can't get a new truck in 2 years.

no one forced them to become  lazy pot smoking zombies.  with tons of college debt.

I started working at 14 moved hear & retired at 39.  you create your own future.

You couldn't be more wrong. Age should show you wisdom but for now you are young and inexperienced. You'll see. Go back, no way. I had a great time in a better world than we have now. As a world our best years are behind us and nothing can change that.

Fucking boomers

Old people are funny.

"We did a shit job of raising our kids and gave them a fucked up social security system but it's their fault."

Completely out of touch with reality.  A lot of companies don't even have paper applications anymore and if you send them a resume' they're going to email you a link to their application page.

Because they work under the table, live in a 100 sq ft crackhouse apartment that they share with 10 other people, and utilize every welfare scheme they can as illegal immigrants.

They are the reason so many millenuals are FUCKED. Blue collar Americans used to be able to save for retirement and have decent health coverage AND still support a modest family. Today!? Have fun working your add off like a slave for money that can't even afford a cardboard box on the street.

No wonder so many millenials are fucked. I get paid $12 hr... and I have a house paid off...but I still find it hard to make ends meet FFS.

Going to college isn't even a guarantee anymore as you are likely to end up having to compete against an Indian H1B visa worker who will do your job for gas station attendant wages.

Our generation did raise these people.

Need some advice.

I'm reaching 35. I have $5,000 in credit debt and about $6,200 home equity loan. No mortgage.

I'm only currently earning $12/hr ($27-28k per yr w/ OT). My wife is currently overseas waiting on our spousal visa to be approved. Once she arrives... We are planning to have her work full time so we can pay off the house and be completely debt free.

I am currently looking for better work. My company just approved a slight promotion at work... But still not worth sticking around at. I have an interview at a job that would pay $15.50/hr and GREAT State govt employee bennies.

Worst case scenario... I get a different job that pays $14hr and make around $30kyr and use Christian h3althshare ministries for health ins.

I am also taking online coursework to get my Cisco CCNA cert. Im hoping someday i can work as a network engineer.

I figure at the least, once my wife gets here, she can get a full time job doing day care ... We can have all our debt gone in 3-6 months. Problem is... she is 31 and wants to start having kids. I do too. But I have no idea how that will work. I figure she can still make some extra money babysitting other people's kids while at home? Not sure if anyone here does that.

How bad a situation would we be in if I'm at 35...paid off house, kids on the way... and just now starting to contribute to retirement? I don't have much in my accounts right now at all. My fault... I know,  but trying to figure out how to fix this Shit.

My dad lost most of his life savings during the dot com bubble burst... and was able to recover from it to a nice retirement by 2015.

Having a house paid off at 35 is a big benefit but at the income you're looking at you're still not going to be able to put much into retirement.

Honestly?  Take a look at getting into the trades.  I'm looking at getting out of it for a firefighting job but it's still not a bad gig at all.  70k+ a year plus benefits.  401k and pension paid into by the employer plus an optional annuity.  Even at your age without a mortgage to worry about you could set yourself up to retire comfortable.

"There's two types of fair. County and state."

Tempe PD is accepting online applications July 5- July 19th, $56k starting pay. Chandler and Gilbert PDs are accepting applications again in the fall, they both start at $53k. A guy I worked with bailed on NY and went to work for Chandler PD, he loved it there.

Could you maybe get a room-mate and split the rent for a time?

Well, let me offers a few life lessons:

Retirement. No job owes you a retirement plan. A business is in business for their own profit/well-being. Doesn't mean they have to be dicks, but they didn't start the business for you. No one will take care of you better than YOU. YOU plan for YOUR retirement.

Savings. Control your urges and spending and you can save. It's really that easy. Doesn't mean you can't have fun or do whatever, but you cannot spend more than you have and save at the same time. Remember math class? Put something aside through automatic deduction from your pay check, or deposit cash in a bank, and live like it isn't there. It only gets touched in an emergency, and you need to define for yourself right up front what an 'emergency' is. I suggest that you not deem a new iphone or concert tickets an emergency.

Student loans. You were bullshitted. I know that degree in cultural studies was supposed to help unite the world, and your counselor told you you would make $80K out the gate, but you were bullshitted. It is YOUR responsibility to pursue a relevant educate, and, reality check, all education is not relevant. No one is going to pay you $80K without any experience. Yes, you have to start at the bottom, and show a company you can perform and are worth more, before you get more. Face facts, you have a bunch of information and theory swimming around your head and no real idea how to put it into meaningful/productive action; you are still learning. So, if you keep holding out for $80K, you'll still be trying to pay your loan off working at McDonald's. Oh, and no, I'm not for loan forgiveness. YOU were bullshitted, not me. Life lesson.

Sorry about the hurt feelings kids, but you need to face the facts. Again, no one will take care of you like YOU. Stop waiting on the world to care and give you what it owes you because it doesn't owe you anything, and just doesn't care. Don't approach tomorrow like yesterday or you'll stay right where you are.

I don't have the qualifications necessary. Doesn't it require an associated degree at the least?

Then no Millennials in their right mind would ever vote for a fucking democrat...…….yet...………...

I can't find the requirements on Tempe or Gilbert's site but Chandler only requires a GED.

Thirty five years old is definitely young enough to start saving for retirement.

Figure you will earn about 7 percent a year and also figure how much you will need to live a decent life in retirement (i.e., $500K in retirement times 7 percent would equal $35K per year without reducing principal).

This is VERY dependent on your spending habits and personal desires that ONLY you can provide the answers to.

But 35 is definitely young enough IMHO.

And this is something I disagree with because companies wait until that old boomer retires or dies before hiring new blood and then wanting someone already trained for the position. [which in my field is 0%]

Want a bonus and to be a lazy manager or higher up? It's easy, just never replace those who retire and take that employee savings [due to not hiring a replacement] against your budget. You'll look like a ''genoius'' to the next lazy person up the ladder and what the hell, you'll both be gone and promoted elsewhere in the company when the SHTF down the road. Sorry for the poor sucker that is in charge when it all goes to shit in the department.

Seen it over and over again, bonuses and quarterly earnings always beat long term planning and that includes employees and retirements, especially when you have a huge portion of your work force in certain positions within 2-5 years of retirement and YOUR training and work experience requirements means that you are years behind the turnover schedule and that there won't be any old guys to help mentor the newer employees when they run across something unknown or have trouble shooting issues.

Prior WWII, the majority of Americans worked until they died. Retirement is a new relative made up term.

@seatbelts

yep....the greatest generation for the most part weren't big spenders, remember they went through the Great Depression, they maybe had 1 hobbie, and lived in the same house they bought when they got married (excpetions of course if you moved for a job), The boomers on the other hand, for the most part did not realize that you need to save for retirement for the most part and henceforth why they aren't retiring. They can't, they are getting into their 60s with too much debt to service.

needing to be filled and actually filling them don't always happen.

Sounds like you guys have some poor management that isn't concerned with the workers.

@Miami_JBT

Us Cajuns had out own retirement system.

Once you got old, you just moved into or lived in a little house on the property of your kids.

https://www.indeed.com/l-Arizona-jobs.html

Not sure of you location but sometimes you have to move.

@midcap

Not just Cajuns. That was what retirement was, your kids taking care of you when you needed help.

As for excess, saw this chart from a hedge finder on twitter last week. Nothing to go wrong here.

Attached File

Should have made better choices

To be fair I work for .gov, own a small consulting company, own rentals, and teach 4 CC classes a year. Some of us aren't lazy millennials and work multiple jobs.

You have been preaching doom and gloom since the day you came. You entire is post history is like the stock market thread "Monday".

Screw that noise.

25, Married, about to have first kid, own my own home, have emergency fund, saving aggressively for retirement, debt free, own more guns than most members here.

Stupid to let stereotypes define you.  If someone wants to call me a millennial, let them.

Congrats on your recent success and growth.

As for my internet machine. I work in an industry that interacts with all facets of the economy.  Jobs availability may have increased, but most of that is low skilled work. The BLS employment report indicates as such. Combine that with massive student loans, increasing health care costs and living expenses, it isn’t sustainable.

Since the day I came.

I knew when I graduated college retirement would be challenging  and most of the millennials won’t be able to. The boomers baked the cake and want to eat it too. I know how to do the math.  Doing the math is why I get paid. Well, my John Hancock matters too.

"Monday"

you are right.....we tend to still do it these days also. I have a lot of clients who have their elderly parent or inlaw living with them.

That chart looks excessive, but you need to remember my time frame is 6-12 months, while I agree with you and rino_hunter on the long term I still have to generate returns in the short.

Which chart is that?

There's no reasoning with that level of stupid.

*click*

I fully get the short term vs long term. My short term looks different as I get to deal with government stupidity.

Chart is AMZN. Nice parabola.

yeah I know you get it.

As far as Amazon, at least the tech sector has earnings and cash flow this time.

I forgot....Amazon is now Cons Disc.

No personal responsibility?

Scary isn't it?

I don't feel like I have enough and compared to most I've talked to I have a shit ton.

They have to work longer to make up for all the time spent on cell phone while at work!

Since the average lifespan for Americans is a bit under 79 years, they will never get to retire.

LOL.
Wrong.
Late boomer here.
BS then a few grad courses.
Worked .my way through college, took 7 years, paid as I went. In the trades.

Took a BIG pay cut for a gov job, started at just over $6/ hr. Decent bennies. Married, wife in school. Lived in a shack, converted carraige house on an old farm.

Drove 20 yo vehicles. Wife started small business. Still has it. Very modest income.
No vices, very few vacations, and those were cheap.

Doable, just have to want to do it.
FWIW one of my brothers is a HS dropout, 6 figure income.