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I am sort of surprised that supposed "engineers" and those in "science" on this forum would frown upon change and new scientific advances, but part of me isn't surprised since certain "engineers" here never want to change their 1960's Colt DI platform.
Why would anyone be opposed to if a private company on their own dime put out a high end expensive AR 15 made of more rare expensive materials? Why would that cause members here to be scared? How does that impact your life? Where does it say all AR 15's have to be $900 dollar Colt DI guns and we can never move away from the Colt 6290? We don't and I don't have to be held hostage by some Colt 6290 DI faithful who refuse change. Reading on the forums the wars between the DI faithful vs the short stroke piston faithful it seems certain AR people just like certain AK people are afraid of change, modernity and progressing forward if it increases costs. As if all AK's should always be stamped receivers that cost $200 - $600 and all AR's need to be aluminum $800 $900 Colt DI platform. And why would anyone supposedly into "science" use oil over grease for an open operating system? I question the background of the supposed "engineers" here especially those who still recommend using CLP to lubricate a BCG especially for a DI operated open system... |
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Over on the Cherry Balmz vs Slide Glide thread it really opened my eyes on the lack of understanding of gun engineering and lubrication from certain members here. The 1960's called, they want their technology back. I COMPLETELY agree with the owner of Cherry Balmz and how he had to sit certain people down here and explain to them why their CLP and oil is not meant for their dirty DI open operating system. Your gun is not a closed internal combustion engine. The "engineers" here still think it's normal practice to only get 100 to 500 rounds of semi-auto fired from their gun and then have to completely lubricate their AR again. See for yourselves... https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/-ARCHIVED-THREAD-CherryBalmz-vs-SlideGlide/5-2105715/?page=1 The science and materials exist today for a private company to produce their own high end exotic AR 15 if they want to for the private consumer and if the DOD could get congressional approval and the funding to give our soldiers more expensive guns they damn well sure would as senator Tom Cotton would support it just like the HK M27 IAR replacing the Colt DI. But, some here are just scared the AR prices would increase and they wouldn't be able to afford them and they couldn't get the parts for their garage home builds. So, it has nothing to do with the science or being impossible to build, it has to do with "YOU" and your garage home built AR's and your 1960's Colt DI mentality. Don't worry, you'll always have your cheap sensitive brittle AR's that over heat after 500 rounds of semi-auto, but there is also the $12,000 AR's like the KAC and HK rifles and someday magnesium and supper alloy AR's. |
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I am sort of surprised that supposed "engineers" and those in "science" on this forum would frown upon change and new scientific advances, but part of me isn't surprised since certain "engineers" here never want to change their 1960's Colt DI platform. Why would anyone be opposed to if a private company on their own dime put out a high end expensive AR 15 made of more rare expensive materials? Why would that cause members here to be scared? How does that impact your life? Where does it say all AR 15's have to be $900 dollar Colt DI guns and we can never move away from the Colt 6290? We don't and I don't have to be held hostage by some Colt 6290 DI faithful who refuse change. Reading on the forums the wars between the DI faithful vs the short stroke piston faithful it seems certain AR people just like certain AK people are afraid of change, modernity and progressing forward if it increases costs. As if all AK's should always be stamped receivers that cost $200 - $600 and all AR's need to be aluminum $800 $900 Colt DI that people can cheaply build in their garages and basements and use the same old CLP or grampa's Hoppes that, "fills up the air that brings back memories." And why would anyone supposedly into "science" use oil over grease for an open operating system? I question the background of the supposed "engineers" here especially those who still recommend using CLP to lubricate a BCG especially for a DI operated open system... View Quote Improvement is great. Forward thinking is rare. When ARs produced from exotic metals add up to sum total in the neighborhood of $5-6k very few will buy them. And anybody will have one fuck of a time pitching $2k barrels. Anywhere. |
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Change is fine. Improvement is great. Forward thinking is rare. When ARs produced from exotic metals add up to sum total in the neighborhood of $5-6k very few will buy them. And anybody will have one fuck of a time pitching $2k barrels. Anywhere. View Quote But, many people don't have a problem paying over $2000 for AR's like the KAC, HK, LMT, POF and then on top of that spending thousands more Gucci'ing up their AR's with Eotech, Trijicon, lasers and so forth to be as "tacticool" and "operator" as possible. |
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Quoted: When did I ever imply throughout this entire thread that "ALL" AR'15's will be very expensive? I only implied that the ones made out of exotic materials will be, you can still buy your aluminum AR's for $700 to $2000. But, many people don't have a problem paying over $2000 for AR's like the KAC, HK, LMT, POF and then on top of that spending thousands more Gucci'ing up their AR's with Eotech, Trijicon, lasers and so forth. View Quote You seem to have a chip on your shoulder or some hidden vendetta against the "other" AR owners out there? Or possibly just enjoy arguing? Or just rebutting reason? You can "what if" this shit until the cows come home, listen to some here that are in the Engineering and Manufacturing industries. You will likely learn more than you realize. Talk with some PMS, Engineers, and facilities that actually make finished products. Talk to material suppliers. Put the time/effort/funds into the research. Then report back. Or....keep posting random links to super cool exotics and bickering. Oh, and don't hate on the guys with the "Eotech, Trijicon, lasers and so forth", somebody actually put the effort into product development to bring these advances. |
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I will advise the OP though that he needs to spend some time thinking about the actual failure mechanisms that he is proposing to thwart. Most of the alloys advertised as temperature resistant are designed to resist the metallurgical and corrosion reactions that cause deterioration after thousands of hours of sustained temperatures over 800°C. Guns get moderately hot, but only for brief periods usually measured in minutes, and most of the failure mechansisms commercial alloys are designed around won't apply. View Quote How would you increase the life span of the barrel for full auto sustained fire? And how would you improved the strength of the receivers and prevent them from cracking? |
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Oh, and don't hate on the guys with the "Eotech, Trijicon, lasers and so forth", somebody actually put the effort into product development to bring these advances. View Quote |
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Quoted: When did I ever imply throughout this entire thread that "ALL" AR'15's will be very expensive? I only implied that the ones made out of exotic materials will be, you can still buy your aluminum AR's for $700 to $2000. But, many people don't have a problem paying over $2000 for AR's like the KAC, HK, LMT, POF and then on top of that spending thousands more Gucci'ing up their AR's with Eotech, Trijicon, lasers and so forth. View Quote Basing a business model on the bargain-hunting shooter is actually not bad, as the customer is always there, the newbie, the casual shooter, and let's not forget the experimenter*,and so forth. Basing a business model on being "Gucci", is more risky as people who are willing to pay over top-dollar for minor improvements are far fewer. ___________________________ * I think a red-dot might be useful - goes and buys a cheap $40 NCstar and uses it for a while, and finds that the idea of a red dot is useful, but specifically, NCstars leave a lot to be desired, so he goes and buys something better, or he finds that he prefers a true scope, so he tosses the red-dot and hasn't broken the bank on it. |
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With regards to cost benefit analysis...
Would it be cheaper in the long run to supply the military with a very expensive rifle up front that ends up saving money and is cheaper to maintain in the long run due to it's high quality and durability? For example, not having to replace barrels or cracked receivers... If an AR has a super strong magnesium alloy receiver and super alloy barrel of (pick your alloy) that lasts a lifetime say around 500,000 rounds, wouldn't that in the long run save money compared to aluminum receivers that crack, BCG's and bolts, pins, gas tubes, hammer springs, and barrels that break? I don't want to just limit this to AR 15's, but what about barrels in M240's and M249's too? How many barrels were replaced in AR 15's, M240's and M249s since the War On Terror began? How many receivers, BCG's, bolts, pins, hammer springs were replaced? How much did that cost? Lets say hypothetically that the U.S. Military was using super alloy barrels the last 20 years and they never wore out and didn't have to be replaced, would that have saved the tax payer money in the long run? That would depend on how much these super alloy barrels cost per barrel. I'm looking at this with regards to money saved over the long run, sort of like putting solar panels on your roof, the initial cost of the solar panel up front is very expensive but over a 15 to 20 year period it could save you a lot of money on energy bills/payments. This requires mathematicians/statisticians to analyze all of it. |
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Quoted: If you could upgrade the AR 15 platform how would you and what materials would you use? How would you increase the life span of the barrel for full auto sustained fire? And how would you improved the strength of the receivers and prevent them from cracking? View Quote |
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Quoted: I don't know enough to answer most of that. I would want a dozen or more failed examples made available to me for analysis before I would comment on it. How often do the receivers crack in service? I've never heard of that as a prevelant failure mode. View Quote But not just limit it to damaged receivers, like my post above mentioned, what about damaged barrels, BCG's, bolts, pins, gas tubes, hammer springs etc? Over on the Battlefield Las Vegas thread, in a controlled environment they have lots and lots of parts failures on guns. They run their guns hard on full auto. They have Colt receivers that have cracked, barrels snapping off where it connects to the bolt on the upper receiver and the HK 416 broke in half... Colt barrels snapping off the upper receiver... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/?page=32 HK 416 barrel snapped off... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/?page=34 Colt cracked receiver... https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/High-round-count-AR-M4-s-over-100-000-rounds-and-how-they-have-handled-on-our-range/118-677135/?page=36 Ron at Battlefield Las Vegas mentions often on that forum how his armorers are replacing parts often on all sorts of guns. They have to lube guns twice a day and fully clean them every other day, they still break. They use Slip2000, MilComm and Lucas for oil and grease. |
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Behind the scenes interview with an armorer at Battlefield Las Vegas on the guns he repairs...
Battlefield Vegas Visit & Extreme Round Count Failure Points (AR-15, AK-47s, 1911s, Glocks)... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PApRcRE-ft8 |
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I’d argue that the Battlefield guns see far more abuse than theater weapons. And if the cost required a long term period to recoup the investment then I see the .mil passing and possibly investing in new technology altogether versus a bandaid fix.
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I’d argue that the Battlefield guns see far more abuse than theater weapons. And if the cost required a long term period to recoup the investment then I see the .mil passing and possibly investing in new technology altogether versus a bandaid fix. View Quote Ron mentioned that for their AR's he only use good quality parts from Daniel Defense and LMT for their BCG's. They use J&T barrels which are pretty good. Ron mentioned how it actually saved them money in the long run by using more expensive higher quality parts that break less often. They no longer use cheap red dots since they break so quickly. Battlefield Las Vegas' most reliable gun is the Scar 16, they got 200k rounds through them and still don't break according to the armorers. |
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If this thread is still about using nickel based alloys then I'm happy to help. I'm a metallurgist for a primary metals producer specializing in nickel alloys (inconel 718, waspaloy, etc.) used in the hot sections of jet engines.
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If this thread is still about using nickel based alloys then I'm happy to help. I'm a metallurgist for a primary metals producer specializing in nickel alloys (inconel 718, waspaloy, etc.) used in the hot sections of jet engines. View Quote Would it save the govt money over the long run if super alloys could increase the life span of the barrel? Could you give a rough estimate on the cost of per barrel that is made out of either nickel or cobalt alloy? I know there are lots of different nickel and cobalt alloys but since you're a metallurgist can you pick the alloys you think are best suited for that specific purpose and go from there? |
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Ron mentioned that for their AR's he only use good quality parts from Daniel Defense and LMT for their BCG's. They use J&T barrels which are pretty good. Ron mentioned how it actually saved them money in the long run by using more expensive higher quality parts that break less often. They no longer use cheap red dots since they break so quickly. View Quote |
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OP, are you in an engineering program by any chance? View Quote I'm curious about that super duper strong magnesium alloy. Also just what that means. HKPOF is curious, so he might develop some interest in pursuing engineering or one of the materials sciences. |
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Quoted: Would it be possible to use a super alloy from nickel or cobalt to make rifle barrels out of for the U.S. military for AR 15's, M240 and M249 machine guns to increase the barrel's lifespan? Would it save the govt money over the long run if super alloys could increase the life span of the barrel? Could you give a rough estimate on the cost of per barrel that is made out of either nickel or cobalt alloy? I know there are lots of different nickel and cobalt alloys but since you're a metallurgist can you pick the alloys you think are best suited for that specific purpose and go from there? View Quote My pick would be 718. It's typically hot forged to a near net shape and then machined to hold turbine blades. Lifetime guarantee against corrosion! Anybody game for a machining trial? |
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Let's not just limit super alloys to barrels only.
What about super alloys for BCG's and cam pin? This is an idea, different kind of bolt and nut but they can make them in large quantities... https://www.ganpatind.com/inconel-718-bolt-nut-supplier-exporter/ https://www.ganpatind.com/hastelloy-bolt-nut-supplier-exporter/ https://www.specialmetals.com/assets/smc/documents/pcc-8064-sm-alloy-handbook-v04.pdf |
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Special Metals... oh boy...
Again it comes down to cost/benefit. In my registered, single shot musket used only for hunting, I would never see conditions that mimic rocket engines. |
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Quoted: Would it be possible to use a super alloy from nickel or cobalt to make rifle barrels out of for the U.S. military for AR 15's, M240 and M249 machine guns to increase the barrel's lifespan? Would it save the govt money over the long run if super alloys could increase the life span of the barrel? Could you give a rough estimate on the cost of per barrel that is made out of either nickel or cobalt alloy? I know there are lots of different nickel and cobalt alloys but since you're a metallurgist can you pick the alloys you think are best suited for that specific purpose and go from there? View Quote The M60 barrel is Stellite lined and costs $2400 to $3600 each, the M240 barrel is a chromium plated bore, conventional monobloc steel barrel and cost about $400 to $500 each. The general rule of thumb is the return on investment needs to be around 75% over say ten years, or the remaining life, to make the project worth funding. The "investment" is both the non-recurring cost (development cost, testing, data package stuff) and the recurring cost (mainly procuring, but the is some product support cost). These two price tags added together have to be 3/4 what you would spend over ten years, or the remaining life. Let's take M4 barrels, they cost Uncle Sam about $100 each, let's say they go through 20,000 barrels per year, over ten years that's $20 million, so for the effort to develop a new barrel you can spend around 15 million. And, let's assume they are ten times better so over ten years, you only need to buy 20,000 of them at the price of a Stellite lined barrel $2 grand, each. Why 75%? because while you are spending time and money developing new and better stuff, you still have to support spares for the legacy stuff, so your budget now has to be bigger, and you only get to see savings down the road. Oops, you have to spend $40 million to buy 20,000 barrels twice what ten years worth of cheap regular barrels cost plus your development cost, and that's really still to low because in order the get the full 10 years worth of saving you would have to replace all the barrels currently in service, which is a couple million. You better believe the Defense Department looks for new and fantastic technology that will make things better and last longer, but developing things cost money and there isn't an infinite supply of that despite what some of our members of Congress seem to think. The money needs to go where it yields the greatest effect. And if the effect you are looking for is killing enemy combatants, the M4 and even the GPMG are low on the food chain. Artillery, mortars and aerial bombs yield the biggest bang for the buck in that area.... (yeah, that pun was intended) |
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Since this is not the first time this sort of expedition has been forged on this topic, some input from another member here that appears to have some grasp of metallurgy and reality:
"Nickel based superalloys are a poor choice for rifle barrels. Inconel 625, Hastelloy X, SuperTherm, etc perform very well in high heat application or corrosive atmospheres, but since nickel is relatively soft, they are poor performers in high wear applications. Passivation on the surface layer will withstand extreme heat and resist corrosion in some very nasty solutions (look up a test solution known as "green death") But the passivation layer is largely nickel oxide it is quite easily damaged by high friction surface loads, like a bullet travelling at 3000 fps. People tend to confuse nickel based superalloys with stainless steel. Stainless steel has a lot of iron in it, as where superalloys have little to no iron and very low carbon content, (Inco 625: 5% Iron and .10% carbon) This makes for poor anti-wear qualities. We can talk about face cubic centered and body cubic centered structures, intermetalic phases and creep resistance until we bore everyone to death. But none of that is related to wear, it is all related to heat and corrosion resistance. On the other side of the superalloy game you have the wear resistant alloys. Stellite being one of the most widely recognized tradenames. These alloys are very hard and as such have excellent wear resistance properties. These alloys also have little to no iron but very high carbon content (1-2% not fractions of a percent) since nickel is soft it isn't used. But cobalt, chrome and tungsten are very hard, and make up the bulk of the alloy. Seems like the perfect solution. The alloy is hard, so it offers fantastic wear resistance properties, but it's next to impossible to machine, it can have cracking problems (hydrogen embrittlement as well as inter-granular attack) So, not really a good choice for rifle barrels. Forging. Yes Inconel 625 can be forged, in fact forging is quite common and maximizes the properties of superalloys by further grain refinement. Unfortunately forging of nickel based alloys doesn't yield the same resulting strength increase as it does in carbon steel. Alloys are a lot like AR15s, someone always wants to know "what's the best one to buy?" The answer in both cases is the same...it depends on what you want to do with it. I've worked with nickel and cobalt based alloys my entire working life, they are pretty amazing. But even after 30 years of this, I'm still impressed at how good steel is for a lot of applications. There have been a lot of very smart people that have selected the material used for rifle barrels. Steel is pretty hard to beat." |
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This was posted by someone else back in 2011 on here but I'll re-post it...
Picatinny cobalt alloys show promise for sustained firepower... https://www.army.mil/article/52605/picatinny_cobalt_alloys_show_promise_for_sustained_firepower |
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This was posted by someone else back in 2011 on here but I'll re-post it... Picatinny cobalt alloys show promise for sustained firepower... https://www.army.mil/article/52605/picatinny_cobalt_alloys_show_promise_for_sustained_firepower View Quote LINK (For anybody else that has interest). |
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Quoted: Yeah, well you never been to Battlefield Las Vegas. View Quote Ron's input is amazing, and appreciated by many (myself included). It gives many an idea of which manufacturers' components stand out, gives us a baseline type data point of what to expect. 200-500k rds a month is something that likely none of us will ever encounter. And many of us want our guns to group past 25 yrds. IIRC, the highest round count from a single bbl from Ron's range was ~82k. Gas port erosion was horrid and rifling was nearly non existent past the port, but the weapon still printed groups at 25 yrds well enough to make the tourists grin. That being a 4150 ordanance grade chromed bore steel barrel. No black magic/voodoo/exotic formula there. |
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Quoted: Planar fracture with multiple visible initiations, pretty clearly a high-cycle fatigue failure. Solutions to extend life are to design for lower stress, or select a material with a higher fatigue strength. However, that is almost certainly going to mean a heavier material. View Quote |
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If super alloys are out of the question for barrels, are there any steels that have not been used yet for barrels that could be looked into for use? What about Hardox? It's suppose to be excellent for wear resistance...
https://www.ssab.us/products/steel-categories/wear-resistant-steels |
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This could be used to line the inside of a barrel to increase it's longevity...
Platinum-gold alloy is the most wear-resistant metal in the world... https://www.mining.com/platinum-gold-alloy-wear-resistant-metal-world/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/adma.201802026 "Using an example to explain their achievement, the researchers said that the alloy is so durable that if car tires were fabricated with it, it’d be possible to skid around the Earth’s equator 500 times before wearing out the tread." |
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The Govt gets volume pricing deals. They pay less than $50 each for an stripped upper. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: Or, replacing a $150 component every 200k rds. I could definitely live with that. (Not that any AR that I own will ever see that type of round count). Unfortunately. Unfortunately a Colt M4 receiver costs me in the neighborhood of $150. |
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This could be used to line the inside of a barrel to increase it's longevity... Platinum-gold alloy is the most wear-resistant metal in the world... https://www.mining.com/platinum-gold-alloy-wear-resistant-metal-world/ https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/adma.201802026 "Using an example to explain their achievement, the researchers said that the alloy is so durable that if car tires were fabricated with it, it’d be possible to skid around the Earth’s equator 500 times before wearing out the tread." View Quote |
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I am sort of surprised that supposed "engineers" and those in "science" on this forum would frown upon change and new scientific advances, but part of me isn't surprised since certain "engineers" here never want to change their 1960's Colt DI platform. Why would anyone be opposed to if a private company on their own dime put out a high end expensive AR 15 made of more rare expensive materials? Why would that cause members here to be scared? How does that impact your life? Where does it say all AR 15's have to be $900 dollar Colt DI guns and we can never move away from the Colt 6290? We don't and I don't have to be held hostage by some Colt 6290 DI faithful who refuse change. View Quote For some reason you've decided that a material change is the answer to a problem that you: A.) Haven't defined This is where design begins. Just like I can't make (or even quote) you a barrel without you providing me specifications (material chemistry & mechanical specs, dimensional specifications, inspection methods, coatings/surface treatment, delivery & shipping), you can't design a product without establishing what that product is supposed to do in the first place. Until you figure that out and can articulate it with specific and measurable criteria you're just throwing shit at the wall. A reasonable adult would understand this, I stand by my assertion that you're a teenager goofing off on the internet (BTDT). Which is fine, but getting pissy when professionals poke holes in your half baked thought process isn't helpful. You're wrong, we're trying to set you right. A little humility goes a long way. |
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New “Super Strong” Barrel Steel Released by Aubert & Duval...
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/01/new-super-strong-barrel-steel-released-aubert-duval/ In the comments section in the link above someone mentioned that steel mentioned in the article is VIM VAR... "It stands for Vacum Induction Melting Vacuum Arc Melting. It is a remelt process that removes sulfur and phosphorus from steel." He then added. "If I were to pick an AISI steel for gun barrel use, H11 or H13 oil well drill rod would be my top choice." |
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A.) Haven't defined This is where design begins. Just like I can't make (or even quote) you a barrel without you providing me specifications (material chemistry & mechanical specs, dimensional specifications, inspection methods, coatings/surface treatment, delivery & shipping), you can't design a product without establishing what that product is supposed to do in the first place. View Quote If you think it does need improvements in certain areas and If you could improve the AR 15 platform what are some of the things you would do? Do you have a creative imaginative mind or do I have to come up with all the ideas and mathematics to show you? Often the best ideas don't come from an engineer or mathematician, it comes from someone from the arts and a imagination in a non-abstract way. Corporations have different departments (marketing, creative design, engineering). After the idea and design has been created on paper or computer it''s up to the engineers to see if it's possible to make that image on paper or a computer screen into reality as a physical object as you know. Look at automotive corporations (Honda, Toyota, BMW etc) who do use exotic materials on their vehicles in mass production. And consumer electronic corporations. Or Hollywood's relationship with the Pentagon. Yes, you know math and engineering, but do you have a vision? Is your vision confined to someone else's budget, authority and pessimism? |
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As if Inconel hasn't been used in mass production for consumers?
Inconel is also used in the automotive industry: Tesla is now using Inconel in place of steel to upgrade the main battery pack contactor in its Model S so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. Tesla claims that this allows upgraded vehicles to safely increase the maximum pack output from 1300 to 1500 amperes, allowing for an increase in power output (acceleration) Tesla refers to this as "Ludicrous Mode". Ford Motor Company is using Inconel to make the turbine wheel in the turbocharger of its EcoBlue diesel engines introduced in 2016. The exhaust valves on NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car drag racing engines are made of Inconel. Inconel is also used in the manufacture of exhaust valves in high performance aftermarket turbo and Supercharged Mazda Miata engine builds (see Flyin' Miata). BMW has since used Inconel in the exhaust manifold of its high performance luxury car, the BMW M5 E34 with the iconic S38 engine, withstanding higher temperatures and reducing back pressure. Jaguar Cars has fit, in their Jaguar F-Type SVR high performance sports car, a new lightweight Inconel titanium exhaust system as standard which withstands higher peak temperatures, reduces backpressure and eliminates 16 kg (35 lb) of mass from the vehicle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel |
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There are inconel gas tubes (often the first failure point of sustained full auto fire), magnesium receivers, lithium alloy or magnesium alloy receivers and handguards. KAC has done the E3 bolt with radiused lugs and smaller cam pin hole to increase the life of these parts.
Again, it boils down to business with points of diminishing returns and the lowest bidder to deliver the product that meets the specs. |
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There are inconel gas tubes (often the first failure point of sustained full auto fire), magnesium receivers, lithium alloy or magnesium alloy receivers and handguards. KAC has done the E3 bolt with radiused lugs and smaller cam pin hole to increase the life of these parts. Again, it boils down to business with points of diminishing returns and the lowest bidder to deliver the product that meets the specs. View Quote https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/v7-extreme-environment-gas-tube/ Below are comments and reviews from customers in the link above... Quote from one of the reviews in the link above, "This gas tube has seen over 32k rounds and still looks new, besides the discoloration from heat. I've replaced the barrel, a titanium gas block, trigger, a hammer, three hammer springs, a trigger spring, and two BCGs and this inconel tube just keeps this rifle moving. I don't know when, or if I'll need to replace this tube but it will surely be with another V7 extreme environment gas tube. It's probably the best, most reliable part on the rifle. Fantastic part guys/girls! Thank you for making this available to us high round count shooters." Quote: "Imagine if you would........your in a heavy firefight, then the enemies gas tube melts. But yours doesnt because you purchased the Extreeme Environment Gas Tube. MONEY WELL SPENT!" Quote: "This is a must have. I'm an aerospace technologist and inconel is the same material used in the x-wing to break the sound barrier. You want this. If these came standard in the early stages of the Vietnam war there wouldn't have been bad reputations. Have you seen a stainless steel gas tube melt? Well you won't see it ever again with one of these gas tubes 100% I put my life on it. V SEVEN is breaking barriers with all their technologies, very smart people at work here!" |
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As if Inconel hasn't been used in mass production for consumers? Inconel is also used in the automotive industry: Tesla is now using Inconel in place of steel to upgrade the main battery pack contactor in its Model S so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. Tesla claims that this allows upgraded vehicles to safely increase the maximum pack output from 1300 to 1500 amperes, allowing for an increase in power output (acceleration) Tesla refers to this as "Ludicrous Mode". Ford Motor Company is using Inconel to make the turbine wheel in the turbocharger of its EcoBlue diesel engines introduced in 2016. The exhaust valves on NHRA Top Fuel and Funny Car drag racing engines are made of Inconel. Inconel is also used in the manufacture of exhaust valves in high performance aftermarket turbo and Supercharged Mazda Miata engine builds (see Flyin' Miata). BMW has since used Inconel in the exhaust manifold of its high performance luxury car, the BMW M5 E34 with the iconic S38 engine, withstanding higher temperatures and reducing back pressure. Jaguar Cars has fit, in their Jaguar F-Type SVR high performance sports car, a new lightweight Inconel titanium exhaust system as standard which withstands higher peak temperatures, reduces backpressure and eliminates 16 kg (35 lb) of mass from the vehicle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inconel View Quote |
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Quoted: Do you believe the AR 15 needs improvement or is it perfectly fine in your opinion? If you think it does need improvements in certain areas and If you could improve the AR 15 platform what are some of the things you would do? Do you have a creative imaginative mind or do I have to come up with all the ideas and mathematics to show you? Often the best ideas don't come from an engineer or mathematician, it comes from someone from the arts and a imagination in a non-abstract way. Corporations have different departments (marketing, creative design, engineering). After the idea and design has been created on paper or computer it''s up to the engineers to see if it's possible to make that image on paper or a computer screen into reality as a physical object as you know. Look at automotive corporations (Honda, Toyota, BMW etc) who do use exotic materials on their vehicles in mass production. And consumer electronic corporations. Or Hollywood's relationship with the Pentagon. Yes, you know math and engineering, but do you have a vision? Is your vision confined to someone else's budget, authority and pessimism? View Quote What he and the other SMEs are saying is not that one should lack vision, it's that if you know why a rule exists, you know when you should follow it, when you should bend it and when you should break it altogether. Based on your postings, you lack a fundamental understanding of why the engineers and material scientists live by the rules that they use in their professional lives. They're not saying the AR has reached it's pinnacle of development, they're just saying that in the scenarios you're providing, the juice just isnt't worth the squeeze at this time. All you're doing is googling every exotic material you can think of, saying "what if..." and then getting mad when someone explains to you why it doesn't work that way. Followed by you accusing them of having a lack of vision. This could have been an interesting tech thread, but you haven't actually contributed anything technical aside from snippets you've googled off the internet and the big chip on your shoulder. What a train wreck. |
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Quoted: "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" - Pablo Picasso What he and the other SMEs are saying is not that one should lack vision, it's that if you know why a rule exists, you know when you should follow it, when you should bend it and when you should break it altogether. Based on your postings, you lack a fundamental understanding of why the engineers and material scientists live by the rules that they use in their professional lives. They're not saying the AR has reached it's pinnacle of development, they're just saying that in the scenarios you're providing, the juice just isnt't worth the squeeze at this time. All you're doing is googling every exotic material you can think of, saying "what if..." and then getting mad when someone explains to you why it doesn't work that way. Followed by you accusing them of having a lack of vision. This could have been an interesting tech thread, but you haven't actually contributed anything technical aside from snippets you've googled off the internet and the big chip on your shoulder. What a train wreck. View Quote |
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Quoted: "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist" - Pablo Picasso What he and the other SMEs are saying is not that one should lack vision, it's that if you know why a rule exists, you know when you should follow it, when you should bend it and when you should break it altogether. Based on your postings, you lack a fundamental understanding of why the engineers and material scientists live by the rules that they use in their professional lives. They're not saying the AR has reached it's pinnacle of development, they're just saying that in the scenarios you're providing, the juice just isnt't worth the squeeze at this time. All you're doing is googling every exotic material you can think of, saying "what if..." and then getting mad when someone explains to you why it doesn't work that way. Followed by you accusing them of having a lack of vision. This could have been an interesting tech thread, but you haven't actually contributed anything technical aside from snippets you've googled off the internet and the big chip on your shoulder. What a train wreck. View Quote But the engineers over at V Seven who make AR 15's disagree with you and the SME's here. Since when has the entire scientific community agreed with 3 SME's here? Do the 3 SME's here represent all engineers globally? Do the SME's here support the DI platform or the short stroke piston platform? Do the SMEs here agree with the U.S. Marines switching over to the more expensive HK M27 IAR or want to keep using the Colt DI ? The owner, engineers and tribologists at Cherry Balmz disagree with the 3 SME's here on proper lubrication for the AR 15 who thought using CLP and oil in a open operating system was the proper way to lubricate a AR 15 DI system... https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/CherryBalmz-vs-SlideGlide/5-2105715/ I notice a trend here. When a company that has a product that was designed by engineers releases it to the public you have 3 SME's here who bad mouth it. SME's here have bad mouthed short stroke piston AR's (HK's, POF's) SME's here bad mouth advanced lubricants engineered by people smarter then them. Which SME's here designed, produced and built their own AR's with their own factory with their own materials? There's a reason why Jim Fuller no longer posts on the AK forums because the garage builder "engineers" thought Rifle Dynamics were too expensive for their $600 AK's. Again, the biggest fear of people here isn't that it's not possible, it's just their fear is the industry might move away from their precious 1960's Colt DI system. |
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Quoted:
Mass produced for customers. It's been subjected to corrosive environments. Workable. High heat applicable. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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