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So when's the first movie with a bitcoin based plot coming out?
Will it be like "Sneakers" or "The Net"? |
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Bitcoin? It's the same thing as that number you see when you log into your bank account except that the government can't make more of them appear out of thin air when it needs more money to spend on useless shit.
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It is. I think you mean to use the word utility. Bit coin and the US dollar have nearly identical utility both close to zero. Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. |
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Near as I can figure.
Bill creates a crypto program that "creates" bitcoin. He then offers to sell bitcoins to anyone for $1.00 each. You need a computer of some sort and the program in order to buy and sell a bitcoin. Bill gives you the program. Bill has also included a "transaction fee" built into the program. Bill has set the fee at 2% of the total bitcoins bought and 2% of any transaction made on the bitcoin network. The bitcoins are not released until you make the payment + fee and Bill receives the payment +fee. Your two computers must agree on this transaction via a public and private key. Now you and Bill can buy and sell bellybutton lint to each other using bitcoins. Bill has created money from nothing. Now Sally wants to buy into bitcoin because she wants to buy bellybutton lint. She gets the program from Bill, but buys the bitcoin from you. Now her computer and your computer must agree on the transaction. Part of the program allows the agreement to come from other computers, and the first computer that agrees to the transaction gets the transaction fee. Bills computer got Sally's request for the bitcoin even though you are selling it to her. Bill receives the transaction fee for the sale of the bitcoin. In the meantime John has installed the bitcoin program on his stand alone built to mine bitcoin computer but has not purchased any bitcoin. Sally now buys 4 lbs of bellybutton lint from Bill. Because John has a stand alone bitcoin mining computer and it can run the program faster than any other computer on the bitcoin network he gets the transaction fee. |
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The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. |
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As anything other than a currency yes. I think you might have gotten into a conversation over your head. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. |
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The US dollar is fiat currency. So is the Euro. And the Pound. And the Peso. And the Yuan. And the Yen.
NONE are backed up by anything physical. Their valuation is based on a combination of acceptance/utility and supply and demand. Same applies to cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin. BUT...this is possibly the most important part....the existing banker-controlled finanical industry can not tolerate the thought of cryptocurrency because the acceptance of it will put all the bankers in the unemployment line. The banks don't control THIS kind of currency, so it is anathema to then, and as banks have a very significant amount of influence over governments, it is understandable that some governments are moving to restrict cryptocurrency activity. Hey, there's an idea...I should create the Anathemacoin. Symbol: A bank on fire. The more widespread acceptance of cryptocurrency becomes, the more its value will stabilize and start moving in step with economic conditions. But to say that it's nothing but an idea, actually that isn't quite true. In actual fact, to "mine" a bitcoin requires real work to be done in the sense that many processor operations must be performed, which have a real thermal work function. Coins are created in the process of turning electrical power to thermal energy via the mining rig. A fair amount of heat is generated for every coin mined. By way of comparison, when the federal reserve needs to increase the money supply, do you know how this is done? More is simply issued VIA COMPUTER. Someone types in a code that says "Add 500 billion to the currency reserve" and it happens. It was created in a computer. But unlike cryptocurrency, the actual work required was a little typing and a handful of bits moving around. Heat generated to do this: Imperceptible. I'd argue (correctly) that more real work goes into creating a single bitcoin than goes into creating a single "real" (also fiat) dollar. |
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Near as I can figure. Bill creates a crypto program that "creates" bitcoin. He then offers to sell bitcoins to anyone for $1.00 each. You need a computer of some sort and the program in order to buy and sell a bitcoin. Bill gives you the program. Bill has also included a "transaction fee" built into the program. Bill has set the fee at 2% of the total bitcoins bought and 2% of any transaction made on the bitcoin network. The bitcoins are not released until you make the payment + fee and Bill receives the payment +fee. Your two computers must agree on this transaction via a public and private key. Now you and Bill can buy and sell bellybutton lint to each other using bitcoins. Bill has created money from nothing. Now Sally wants to buy into bitcoin because she wants to buy bellybutton lint. She gets the program from Bill, but buys the bitcoin from you. Now her computer and your computer must agree on the transaction. Part of the program allows the agreement to come from other computers, and the first computer that agrees to the transaction gets the transaction fee. Bills computer got Sally's request for the bitcoin even though you are selling it to her. Bill receives the transaction fee for the sale of the bitcoin. In the meantime John has installed the bitcoin program on his stand alone built to mine bitcoin computer but has not purchased any bitcoin. Sally now buys 4 lbs of bellybutton lint from Bill. Because John has a stand alone bitcoin mining computer and it can run the program faster than any other computer on the bitcoin network he gets the transaction fee. View Quote Transaction fees are set by the person sending the bitcoins. Miners have the ability to determine what transactions they enter into the ledger based on the fees if they wish to do so. The average accepted transaction fee rises and falls with network congestion (see bch and their attacks on the bitcoin network). There are other issues with your analogies, but those are the most glaring. |
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a bitcoin is what will separate the young, intelligent and forward thinking from the old, slow and jaded when the us dollar collapses. View Quote The powers that be could squash it in a day. . . . the powers that be could replace it in a day. . . There are a million ways for Bitcoin to die, not that many to see it prosperous |
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I think what most people may be thinking but leaving unsaid is - Does “Crypto” have 5 branches of armed military backing it?
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Yeah, you certainly got into a conversation you don't understand at all. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. |
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Definitions are hard I know. You might want to look some up. I'll wait for your apology. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. plonk. |
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. plonk. |
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As anything other than a currency yes. I think you might have gotten into a conversation over your head. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. You know, like after a disaster. Will the dollar buy more or less than bitcoin then? Which will be more valuable? |
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The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. |
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How much value does bitcoin have if the power is out and the internet is down? You know, like after a disaster. Will the dollar buy more or less than bitcoin then? Which will be more valuable? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. You know, like after a disaster. Will the dollar buy more or less than bitcoin then? Which will be more valuable? As a currency I don't believe crypto is there with or without electricity but in your example we can look at recent large disasters. Crypto is as useful as a credit card with a $50,000 line to buy gas which is to say not at all. This is not to say people don't barter or convert assets to cash, happens all the time. |
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How much value does bitcoin have if the power is out and the internet is down? You know, like after a disaster. Will the dollar buy more or less than bitcoin then? Which will be more valuable? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It’s a joke. An imaginary financial instrument that has absolutely no intrinsic value. It doesn’t represent a unit of anything. We mine gold, silver, uranium, because they have intrinsic as well as monetary value. Calling the equation solving needed to “create” a bitcoin mining is fucking retarded, and so is anyone thinking its anything but a tool for scammers to rip off morons. There’s no intrinsic value backing up the USD you get paid with twice a month either, is there? Intrinsic value is also known as actual value which is not always market value. This is much harder to know and theoretical, hence I gave you a theoretical and not finite answer. The US Dollar has near zero utility? That's one of the silliest things I've ever seen written on this site. The rest of your post doesn't even merit a response. You know, like after a disaster. Will the dollar buy more or less than bitcoin then? Which will be more valuable? |
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Economics is far more powerful than any military. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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At least my paper/cloth dollar can be used for toilet paper, try that with a bitcoin
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Quoted: This. And I had a hard time explaining why people traded colored paper for stuff to my daughter. The paper is backed by silver... or gold... or actually nothing now. Whatever - people act like it has value, so it does. View Quote |
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A couple of weeks ago I read an article that summed up what I've thought was wrong with Bitcoin, aside from the speculative bubble aspect: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-27/bitcoin-is-an-implausible-currency If you are the TL:DR type, the header of the article sums it up: View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
A couple of weeks ago I read an article that summed up what I've thought was wrong with Bitcoin, aside from the speculative bubble aspect: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-27/bitcoin-is-an-implausible-currency If you are the TL:DR type, the header of the article sums it up: It's not competitive as a payment system, so maybe its value is as money. But it makes terrible money. |
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Jim - "I have a bit coin to sell, it's worth $xxxx." ka3b - "I want to buy your bitcoin. How do I do it?" Answer - Buy an expensive computer, install a specialized program, send Jim the money for the bitcoin.....Where in the fuck do I send the money? How do I send the money? View Quote |
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If men with guns and functional civic infrastructure are the vital part of a currency, why do Venezuelans prefer bitcoins to bolivar or gold?
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Quoted: @KA3B This is the best I can surmise: Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. It is essentially a virtual trinket. So no, you can't put on in your pocket. You can put it in a virtual wallet, I believe. But you can't put that wallet in your pocket either, unless it's on your phone and then its in your pocket, but kinda not. It appears to be something akin to the magical swords and potions that are considered rare in computer games like World of Warcraft and other vast RPGs. To that end they are worth what value people attach to them as virtual items, and the value is in their potential uses in the virtual sphere. The value is dictated by demand. They don't exist in real life. They exist in virtual space as a kind of binary lottery ticket. You buy a computer and jam in the most powerful graphics card you can find, because graphics processors are faster and more bettered than normal motherboard processors and then you set the computer out on a mission to dig through cyberspace to find little bits of these virtual trinkets, which you can then add to your virtual wallet. Basically, somebody created something out of nothing, told everybody that the something was the next big thing and that it would make you rich, some people decided to jump on board to mine the nothingness for that something. Some people found bits of something and said "Look I have found bits of something".....others looked on and said "Oooooh bits of something" and they also joined the mining as everybody said it was going become the next big thing. This continues until lots of people were looking for that something and the hype grew. Lots of people said "oooooh shiney" and wanted to jump on board. The real magic comes when you find some bits of virtual something from nothing and you then sell them to the people who are clamouring for some virtual something from nothing. You can then sell them something from nothing for far more money than it is worth (which is essentially nothing) and turn your something from nothing into cold hard cash which actually has some from of guarantee attached to it. It's one of the greatest examples of a self fulfilling prophecy we have seen in modern times. Of course, it's all fun and games until the power goes off and then your something become nothing again unless you have sold it for something which isn't virtual. I will caveat the above by saying that I am no expert in cryptocurrencies. View Quote |
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Correct, its just like fiat in the sense we AGREE it has value. The benefit is it is outside government control. The value will increase or decrease based upon its adoption and usage. if people don't embrace it, it has no value as its not legal tender and a government sanctioned currency. If they do embrace it, the value will be determined by market forces. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: This. And I had a hard time explaining why people traded colored paper for stuff to my daughter. The paper is backed by silver... or gold... or actually nothing now. Whatever - people act like it has value, so it does. Also is fiat currency simply the belief it is money or is it also the fact you want to acquire assets in the US? |
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People are confusing a strong Military and Economy as if it were some “Chicken or the Egg” riddle. Of course a healthy Economy is needed to amass and maintain a strong Military but without a strong Military you will fail to maintain a healthy Economy. But which ultimately allows the other? When there is no money there are still warriors.
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There are lots of forces in this world capable of destruction. Only one has been found to be able to create.
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It's the BitTorrent of Ponzi schemes. It's decentralized so when it blows up there is no Bernie Madoff to go after.
One or two of these crypto coins will survive but the rest will crater to nothing. If you time it right you might make some money. People speculating in crypto become schills since they know if interest in their coin dwindles then it's going to crater. |
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what if your computer crashes and you can't fix it? how do you get your coin? what if somebody breaks into my house and steals my computer? what if the power is out for weeks because of a storm? how do I get my coin?
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It's the BitTorrent of Ponzi schemes. It's decentralized so when it blows up there is no Bernie Madoff to go after. One or two of these crypto coins will survive but the rest will crater to nothing. If you time it right you might make some money. People speculating in crypto become schills since they know if interest in their coin dwindles then it's going to crater. View Quote |
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Crypto is the only 'currency' in which you can literally carry it around in your head.
Granted, it would take some effort to memorize the private key of a wallet. With enough preparation there is literally nothing ANYONE can do that will prove you're holding it - unless you self incriminate. Who was the guy who memorized the engineered drawings of a British textile machine because they wouldn't allow export to the US? |
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what if your computer crashes and you can't fix it? how do you get your coin? what if somebody breaks into my house and steals my computer? what if the power is out for weeks because of a storm? how do I get my coin? View Quote |
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If you have them in a wallet, you should have a key, which will bring your wallet back on another device. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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what if your computer crashes and you can't fix it? how do you get your coin? what if somebody breaks into my house and steals my computer? what if the power is out for weeks because of a storm? how do I get my coin? NO ONE can make 'you' whole, or undo what has been done, or 'fix' a mistake. If someone somehow managed to dump 2000 pounds of gold into the sun, it would be easier to retrieve than crypto for which the private key has been lost. |
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what if your computer crashes and you can't fix it? how do you get your coin? what if somebody breaks into my house and steals my computer? what if the power is out for weeks because of a storm? how do I get my coin? View Quote Yes, power could go out for a few weeks... and banks can be closed or withdrawls limited. I would never advise having everything in crypto... and I would also never having everything in the bank for the same reasons. |
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Quoted: @KA3B This is the best I can surmise: Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. It is essentially a virtual trinket. So no, you can't put on in your pocket. You can put it in a virtual wallet, I believe. But you can't put that wallet in your pocket either, unless it's on your phone and then its in your pocket, but kinda not. It appears to be something akin to the magical swords and potions that are considered rare in computer games like World of Warcraft and other vast RPGs. To that end they are worth what value people attach to them as virtual items, and the value is in their potential uses in the virtual sphere. The value is dictated by demand. They don't exist in real life. They exist in virtual space as a kind of binary lottery ticket. You buy a computer and jam in the most powerful graphics card you can find, because graphics processors are faster and more bettered than normal motherboard processors and then you set the computer out on a mission to dig through cyberspace to find little bits of these virtual trinkets, which you can then add to your virtual wallet. Basically, somebody created something out of nothing, told everybody that the something was the next big thing and that it would make you rich, some people decided to jump on board to mine the nothingness for that something. Some people found bits of something and said "Look I have found bits of something".....others looked on and said "Oooooh bits of something" and they also joined the mining as everybody said it was going become the next big thing. This continues until lots of people were looking for that something and the hype grew. Lots of people said "oooooh shiney" and wanted to jump on board. The real magic comes when you find some bits of virtual something from nothing and you then sell them to the people who are clamouring for some virtual something from nothing. You can then sell them something from nothing for far more money than it is worth (which is essentially nothing) and turn your something from nothing into cold hard cash which actually has some from of guarantee attached to it. It's one of the greatest examples of a self fulfilling prophecy we have seen in modern times. Of course, it's all fun and games until the power goes off and then your something become nothing again unless you have sold it for something which isn't virtual. I will caveat the above by saying that I am no expert in cryptocurrencies. You put real currency in and it gives you a virtual something. If I’m selling my car and you rock up with a virtual wallet full of QR codes to buy it, I’m keeping my car. Rock up with cash and we have the basis of a viable transaction. |
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Bitcoin sounds like bullshit to me. View Quote |
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Quoted: Well, they call them ATMs. You put real currency in and it gives you a virtual something. If I’m selling my car and you rock up with a virtual wallet full of QR codes to buy it, I’m keeping my car. Rock up with cash and we have the basis of a viable transaction. View Quote |
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I first read about Bitcoin here in GD around 2012 sometime. For all those years I thought it was a scam, until I got talked into buying a bunch of Ethereum last summer. I am still very pleased with that decision. On top of that my ETH mining profits cover my electric, internet, and phone bills. It now seems pretty legit to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Bitcoin sounds like bullshit to me. |
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If you want to read something interesting about bitcoin mining google the energy consumption required. It's stunning. View Quote I just showed this thread to my spouse. The place she works (a pot needle warehouse) has Bitcoin generators all over the place. They actually got Bitcoin as a Christmas bonus. So she was out of work a couple days last week sick and when she came back she found they couldn't ship stuff because the circuit breakers kept flipping. She tracked it down to the Bitcoin machines. Apparently they make a lot of noise as well. I guess you can just buy these things for a few thousand bucks and they pay for themselves in a few days. Interesting stuff. The people at work that handle our retirement plan said that some people wanted to take all of their retirement investments and invest in Bitcoin. They couldn't talk a couple people out of doing this. They could have just gotten a Bitcoin generator and kept their retirement. |
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Quoted: I first read about Bitcoin here in GD around 2012 sometime. For all those years I thought it was a scam, until I got talked into buying a bunch of Ethereum last summer. I am still very pleased with that decision. On top of that my ETH mining profits cover my electric, internet, and phone bills. It now seems pretty legit to me. View Quote |
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