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Link Posted: 9/5/2024 12:11:17 PM EST
[#1]
One of the things my ETC became responsible for was approving personal electronic equipment for use on board.  Not quite sure how that happened and not the Electrician's Mates?  This would have been mostly "Boomboxes" or cassette players, etc.  He may have been suggested by the Eng gang because he was strictly following (I guess) NAVSEA(?? 40 years) Safety requirements and he'd squirt the external plug jacks full of RTV before stickering them.  After making several new "friends" we got the word to be less persnickety about it.  The issue was safe compatibility with the ship's wiring system and proper, safe grounding. So this commercial besides being a security risk, it could well have been a safety risk (mounted on a pallet??).  On the exterior of a ship with specific "stealth" design features.

Reading more up on this, I'm not surprised a not ship's company member spotted it and questioned it.  I would have expected it. Homeported in Yokosuka, we'd also have shipyard availabilities in Subic (not these days of course) for exterior maintenance, gear work, we'd have MOTU assistance on particularly wonky gear, any or all of which I'd expect to spot it.  They had to run cabling, add other gear - extenders, etc.  This wasn't a DIY vcr to tv on the mess decks.  And they swap Bue/Gold crews.  The Goat Locker should have expected it to be discoverable.  Maybe had they played the Welfare and Rec/Morale side openly, some sort of accommodation might have been developed (sometimes "unofficial" command participation can do things.  "Shocked, shocked I tell you!").  But this has OpSec, electrical safety, fire safety, penetrating the skin of the ship? issues. Looks like the whole Chief's Mess is compromised to some extent.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 12:14:15 PM EST
[#2]
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Oh, but we're so far ahead of China it won't matter
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I've been out for awhile--retired in 2005--but I'm still working for the Navy as a civilian.

Here's the thing about Chiefs--there is an incredibly rigorous, complicated selection process for making Chief (E7) in the Navy, and while mistakes get made--it's a human system--they're not made very often.
In my 20 years, I saw two Chief selectees that probably weren't the best choices...Two.  And that doesn't account for personal animosity, which I definitely had.

If you make it past a Chief's selection board and actually get to put on anchors, you're pretty much top notch.  Not just in your field, but against everybody else that's up for it.

What is shocking to me isn't that a single CMDSC displayed such poor judgement--I'm shocked that every other Chief in the mess went along with it.  Not something that I've ever seen before, or even heard of.
Having said all that--not my world.  I never made Chief, so wasn't privvy to a lot of their inner workings until after I retired.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 12:30:55 PM EST
[#3]
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I can't imagine the depth of stupidity it took to do this.
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I was in the same unit with her about 12 years ago and turned duties over with her in Afghanistan. She was toxic then and only cared about herself but I have to admit even this level of dumbassery surprised me. Sailors will always find out if the Mess is fucking up and will be quick to report it. Super dumb to think she could just keep this quiet.


I can't imagine the depth of stupidity it took to do this.


Probably more a factor of arrogance than stupidity, or at least equal amounts.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 12:46:36 PM EST
[#4]
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Women don't belong in the armed forces,you can not make any sense  to them,try with the wife!
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I agree.

Nurses are OK.  Clerks in non combat areas OK.  Otherwise no.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 12:56:06 PM EST
[#5]
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Quoted:
One of the things my ETC became responsible for was approving personal electronic equipment for use on board.  Not quite sure how that happened and not the Electrician's Mates?  This would have been mostly "Boomboxes" or cassette players, etc.  He may have been suggested by the Eng gang because he was strictly following (I guess) NAVSEA(?? 40 years) Safety requirements and he'd squirt the external plug jacks full of RTV before stickering them.  After making several new "friends" we got the word to be less persnickety about it.  The issue was safe compatibility with the ship's wiring system and proper, safe grounding. So this commercial besides being a security risk, it could well have been a safety risk (mounted on a pallet??).  On the exterior of a ship with specific "stealth" design features.

Reading more up on this, I'm not surprised a not ship's company member spotted it and questioned it.  I would have expected it. Homeported in Yokosuka, we'd also have shipyard availabilities in Subic (not these days of course) for exterior maintenance, gear work, we'd have MOTU assistance on particularly wonky gear, any or all of which I'd expect to spot it.  They had to run cabling, add other gear - extenders, etc.  This wasn't a DIY vcr to tv on the mess decks.  And they swap Bue/Gold crews.  The Goat Locker should have expected it to be discoverable.  Maybe had they played the Welfare and Rec/Morale side openly, some sort of accommodation might have been developed (sometimes "unofficial" command participation can do things.  "Shocked, shocked I tell you!").  But this has OpSec, electrical safety, fire safety, penetrating the skin of the ship? issues. Looks like the whole Chief's Mess is compromised to some extent.
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The simple fact that most if not all of that Mess was in on this deception, and that not a single Chief thought twice about it and tried to correct it, is depressing to me.  Because all that does is further destroy the hard-earned respect and excellent reputation the Chiefs before us handed down to successive generations going back to 1 April 1893.  To make matters worse, Chiefs are supposed to train junior officers (which in the Navy goes to O-4) on how to do their jobs the right way, and that's kinda hard to do when you have E8s/E7s behaving like this.

JOs don't forget shit like this, and they grow up to be officers who then don't trust the Mess to guide them correctly on enlisted affairs and mission completion.  And officers who aren't trained correctly can very quickly fuck shit up.  But when this happens, the Mess will have no one to blame except themselves.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 1:05:15 PM EST
[#6]
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Even assuming that the wireless encryption was secure, you are still broadcasting either a 2.4 or 5Ghz signal, likely both, constantly. Do you think that maybe, just maybe, enemy assets could detect and track that signal?

That's not stupid, that's not giving a shit.

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LOL - If they can see the WiFi signal they can literally see your ship.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 1:07:20 PM EST
[#7]
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Rank does not equal intelligence.
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Especially with the spoken, out loud, policy of women and minorities receiving promotion preference.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 2:58:06 PM EST
[#8]
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LOL - If they can see the WiFi signal they can literally see your ship.
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In 50 years when current capabilities are declassified, people will be amazed at what can be today.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 3:11:57 PM EST
[#9]
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LCS, yes.  Only LCS though.
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And ESBs
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 3:16:11 PM EST
[#10]
Supposed training and experience in Naval Intelligence and IT...Yikes
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 3:48:46 PM EST
[#11]
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I agree.
Nurses are OK.  Clerks in non combat areas OK.  Otherwise no.
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Quoted:Women don't belong in the armed forces,you can not make any sense  to them,try with the wife!
I agree.
Nurses are OK.  Clerks in non combat areas OK.  Otherwise no.
While I don't necessarily disagree, this is a character issue more than any inherent gender issue.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 3:51:38 PM EST
[#12]
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I'm having a bit of trouble looking at that picture and a few others I've found getting a feel for the location.  My ETC, eventually ET1, would have had fits if he'd seen that.  He was somewhere on the spectrum and not popular because his social and crew member skills were almost non-existent but he'd have gone goofy over the various electronic issues, grounding, bonding, potential interference, security.  He'd have had a stroke.  But he'd have told me.  It doesn't look like an area usually manned.  But still close to areas maintained and operated by probably Ops and Weaps personnel.  There are a range of antennas and signal flag lines, etc., there.  They've changed ratings around but my (then) EWs would have been aware of it as would my comms ETs as they would be maintaining gear in the area.  Any visit to a shipyard with maintenance or repair on anything in the area would give it away.

I think she's the "fall guy" but didn't read the article so not sure just how extensive the shenanigan ran.
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They merged the EWs into the CT ratings.

"EWs do it with frequency!"
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 4:45:36 PM EST
[#13]
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The bust down one grade is largely inconsequential, it looks like just a slap for sheer stupidity as opposed to a full-up bust for a hard criminal act. I don't know Navy policy, but in general I'd bet good money she's done and will be pushed into retirement as an E-7.

Won't be surprised if she has company off that boat, too. Lack of judgment at that level should be grounds for clearing the entire group of complicit SNCOs.
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In general terms. A cmc who has an unsuccessful tour is removed from the navy. They cannot go back to their old rating and are no longer assignable as a CMC.

So regardless she’s out.

Also, guilty pleas at courts martial nearly always include a waiver of the right to contest administrative separation.

Yes, the court martial punishment was only a reduction in grade, but the effect is probably to strip her of most of her benefits including retirement.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 4:47:03 PM EST
[#14]
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And ESBs
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LCS, yes.  Only LCS though.

And ESBs

Ah ok.
Literally never heard of that before. I think we had one visit out in Yokosuka when I was there once but nobody knew anything about them.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 4:48:32 PM EST
[#15]
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I agree.

Nurses are OK.  Clerks in non combat areas OK.  Otherwise no.
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Quoted:
Women don't belong in the armed forces,you can not make any sense  to them,try with the wife!



I agree.

Nurses are OK.  Clerks in non combat areas OK.  Otherwise no.


This has nothing to do with her being a woman. The vast majority of misconduct in the military is committed by men.

There are shitbag women in the military and shitbag men. It’s not related to gender in my experience.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 4:57:50 PM EST
[#16]
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In 50 years when current capabilities are declassified, people will be amazed at what can be today.
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LOL - If they can see the WiFi signal they can literally see your ship.

In 50 years when current capabilities are declassified, people will be amazed at what can be today.


That.  Just from what's already been declassified, I'm in awe.  Something like Rhyolite, with modern signal processing algos?  

What's the radiated power on a typical 5Ghz Wi-Fi router anyway, and how does that signal correspond to things that ELINT etc platforms are supposed to be able to see?
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 5:10:53 PM EST
[#17]
what about side lobes or superstructure scattering of the main uplink RF?
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 5:16:06 PM EST
[#18]
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LOL - If they can see the WiFi signal they can literally see your ship.
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Hold up. Do you think that because your phone or laptop can only pick up a wifi signal from inside the house, something like the RC135 can’t detect it from across the ocean and vector in a missile/bomb truck on it?
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 6:19:39 PM EST
[#19]
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....

Also, guilty pleas at courts martial nearly always include a waiver of the right to contest administrative separation.

Yes, the court martial punishment was only a reduction in grade, but the effect is probably to strip her of most of her benefits including retirement.
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Wow, I had no idea. If that holds in this case it wasn't just a slap, it was a punch. I went looking, she enlisted in Aug 2002, making her retirement eligible now. If that holds and she loses her retirement she's just lost hundreds of thousands in lifetime annuity.

Worth reading the entire article in the OP. Long and very detailed...she has it coming.
Link Posted: 9/5/2024 7:00:19 PM EST
[#20]
Maybe. When I served on the Mount Whitney and the Arthur W Radford forty years ago you didn't see any nonsense like this from the Senior Enlisted.  Maybe you are right and the male sailors are just as bad as the females now. It's pretty sad.


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You're gonna have a hard time making that make any sense unless you can somehow make the hordes of male COs, XOs, and CMCs who have been relieved of command for misconduct of similar or worse nature irrelevant.
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Link Posted: 9/5/2024 8:05:46 PM EST
[#21]
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Wow, I had no idea. If that holds in this case it wasn't just a slap, it was a punch. I went looking, she enlisted in Aug 2002, making her retirement eligible now. If that holds and she loses her retirement she's just lost hundreds of thousands in lifetime annuity.

Worth reading the entire article in the OP. Long and very detailed...she has it coming.
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Quoted:
....

Also, guilty pleas at courts martial nearly always include a waiver of the right to contest administrative separation.

Yes, the court martial punishment was only a reduction in grade, but the effect is probably to strip her of most of her benefits including retirement.


Wow, I had no idea. If that holds in this case it wasn't just a slap, it was a punch. I went looking, she enlisted in Aug 2002, making her retirement eligible now. If that holds and she loses her retirement she's just lost hundreds of thousands in lifetime annuity.

Worth reading the entire article in the OP. Long and very detailed...she has it coming.


I actually just looked it up (all court martial results are published), and it looks like they didn't address the admin sep issue -- so she might get to retire, she might not.  Hard to tell, and adsep info isn't published as its privacy act protected.  

Link Posted: 9/5/2024 8:07:14 PM EST
[#22]
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Maybe. When I served on the Mount Whitney and the Arthur W Radford forty years ago you didn't see any nonsense like this from the Senior Enlisted.  Maybe you are right and the male sailors are just as bad as the females now. It's pretty sad.



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Maybe. When I served on the Mount Whitney and the Arthur W Radford forty years ago you didn't see any nonsense like this from the Senior Enlisted.  Maybe you are right and the male sailors are just as bad as the females now. It's pretty sad.


Quoted:
You're gonna have a hard time making that make any sense unless you can somehow make the hordes of male COs, XOs, and CMCs who have been relieved of command for misconduct of similar or worse nature irrelevant.



Forty years ago, Sailors didn't get in trouble?  What Navy were you in?

I joined the Navy 30 years ago and I can absolutely tell you that 30 years ago they certainly did get in trouble.

Link Posted: 9/7/2024 9:58:26 AM EST
[#24]
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It was a contributing factor.
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That's not why he was relieved of command. She lost one rank and will likely be out of the Navy soon.

It was a contributing factor.

Now granted, I am not a ship captain, but in my uneducated opinion I'd assume almost crashing the ship is what got him relieved, not having a scope on backwards. But I'll defer to you.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-navy-fired-captain-didnt-fix-steering-problem-near-miss-2024-9

It also sounds like he got fucked by big navy based on this article, but there may be missing details.
Link Posted: 9/7/2024 11:48:18 AM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 9/7/2024 12:50:56 PM EST
[#26]
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Definitely sounds like they set him up to fail, but he apparently owned his own failure during the refueling operation.  And I would guess that there were maintenance issues that contributed to the situation, and the buck will stop with him for that.
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Now granted, I am not a ship captain, but in my uneducated opinion I'd assume almost crashing the ship is what got him relieved, not having a scope on backwards. But I'll defer to you.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-navy-fired-captain-didnt-fix-steering-problem-near-miss-2024-9

It also sounds like he got fucked by big navy based on this article, but there may be missing details.

Definitely sounds like they set him up to fail, but he apparently owned his own failure during the refueling operation.  And I would guess that there were maintenance issues that contributed to the situation, and the buck will stop with him for that.

Yeah I wonder what the full story is here. It says he sent multiple casreps in, requested the contractors go to sea to complete the work and the Navy said no. Supposedly he said it was beyond his crews ability to fix... What exactly did they expect him to do?
It does also say that the correct procedures during the refuel were not followed, so there's that too.


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