Why, because Mormonism stole heavily from the Masons?

I don't know anything about Mormans, but the two biggest rules are you do not discuss religion or politics in a Lodge building....
We don't go there to argue with each other about our beliefs. 

Why are you required to believe in a "supreme being" if religion is an off limits subject at the lodge? Why does it matter then?

Good question.

It's a bit difficult to explain to the uninitiated, but I can offer an example.

Say you're called to testify in court.
You raise your hand and swear to tell the truth.
You take an oath on the name of your supreme being.

If you don't have a belief in a supreme being, how can the oath you took and the declaration you make be binding?

In Freemasonry, part of the journey is taking an oath to do certain things in your life. This oath is sworn to the name of your supreme being, and exists between you and your supreme being.

The reason that religion and politics are prohibited from discussion in Lodge is because Freemasonry seeks to find those common traits that unite all good men, and religion and politics seem to divide rather than unite. That's not to say that a Mason isn't entitled to his personal political and religious beliefs. Freemasonry has long considered all systems of beliefs, except those that run counter to the virtues of Freemasonry, to be equal, and has always worked to be an egalitarian fraternity.

I highly recommend anyone interested in Freemasonry read this: Freemasons for Dummies

This is also an excellent tome about the Civil War and Freemasonry. The Better Angels of Our Nature: Freemasonry in the American Civil War

No secrets revealed, other than to reveal that there are far fewer secrets that you might think.

The "secret society" has long been a misnomer -- my Lodge is listed in the phonebook, has a Facebook page, and a big sign on the road right in front of our building. Our meetings are members only, but that's about it--everything else is out there in the open, including all the charitable works that a Lodge or Grand Lodge does.

Part of our ritual reminds us of the promise of an afterlife.  An Atheist has no such promise.  Therefore the crux of our ritual is meaningless to an Atheist.

Plus, it is one of the ancient landmarks of the Craft.  We cannot vary from it any more than we can allow women to join.

Thanks for the responses

Exactly this. ^


Basically if you were to give a oath without swearing to your God, then what is your oath worth?

Without a belief in a higher power the oath would just be empty words.

Hope this helps some.

Never heard of that...

Could be, I can only speak for what I know.

It is. In every state...

You get out of Masonry what you put into it. And it isn't the right fraternity for every man. Freemasonry requires time, study, and dedication. A lot of men I know just can't find time in their busy schedules to dedicate the time to the studies... But they are still good men.
I know many brothers that are purely "card-carrying members." I never see them at meetings or events, but they'll display their ring or window decal for everyone to see. They may come out for a Masonic Funeral detail if it's a member they knew. These are usually the ones that I have the most trouble with when it comes time to paying their yearly dues. Although they are my brothers, they remind me of the kids that tried out for a sports team just to get a jersey...
That being said, Freemasonry is a great fraternity. I asked to join when I felt I was ready, not because I was asked or told it was right for me. My father has been a brother for 41 years and he never pressured me to do it. When you're ready, you'll know it.
The lodge will never ask you to put it before your family or your job. The lodge asks nothing of you but your loyalty to the ancient beliefs and obligations.

Not commenting on belief or not, but there are plenty of people with a firm belief in a supreme being who fail to honor their oaths and word, and plenty more with no such beliefs who are the most honorable people you'll ever meet.  The two are not mutually dependent.

As I was taught, a man is only as good as his word.  If I make a promise, pledge an oath or give my word, a supreme being doesn't hold me to that, my personal honor holds me to that.

E:


See, THAT is an answer that makes sense.

You're welcome.

Don't tell anyone.   I have a reputation to uphold

Hi.  I've always been interested in history, and freemasonry by association since they've played a large role in modern history. I've always been curious as to a few things.

To my knowledge, masons are expected to respect the law of the land.  How do they view things like unconstitutional gun control laws, or a member being convicted after defending himself rightfully in a place where it's not legal?

How much humility and proper public behavior, i guess for lack of a better term, is expected?  Obviously you don't want members to reflect poorly on the lodge, but some of us young folk are still kicking and not afraid to reply in kind to disrespectful and or violent people we encounter out in the world.  I don't hang out at bars and start fights but I've never been one to turn the other cheek either.

How much of freemasonry is rooted in the love of our country and liberty?

How much of freemasonry revolves around mens trades?  For example talking shop, promoting work ethic, just being men in general.  I assume it was started by masons and incorporates this to an extent.

Thanks in advance.

Good questions blksep.

You are expected to be a civil member of society, but not expected to remove yor concience.  You can act to change your local laws, but not to represent Masonry when doing so.  If you get CONVICTED of a felony you will be suspended in my jurisdiction.  However you are not expected to agree with the laws in your area.  

Being a Masonry does not remove your ability to be politically active.  It does ask that You not represent the Craft when doing so.  We are not a political group.  But we are citizens and are allowed to act with in our political system or to change It civilly.

We can always talk about our work, but we are not expected to use the Craft for profit.

Good answers Brothers... I couldn't have said it any better.  You two are true scholars.

The highlighted part in red... The word Many is a strong word... in my experience, none have been social clubs...All have been great Masonic organizations with a strong emphasis on strengthening our craft, being kind to others outside of the craft, being charitable to those who cant help themselves, helping children with disabilities.  Without Masonry, I would never have had the chance to meet these great men and then socialize with outside of lodge if I choose.

Meh. Worst organization I ever joined.

My genetic brothers never used being a "brother" so much, to impose their needs on me. First "brother" that screwed me over there, tried to steal a good customer of mine. That along with some other BS shenanigans on his part went to Masonic trial and when they informed him that the verdict was going to be expulsion, he took my offer to move to another lodge and never come back.

2nd "brother" who hosed me on a business deal quit rather than be kicked out. 3rd "brother" who had begged me for a job, then used his position to create a lot of unrest among my employees. He also totaled a passenger van, bent another van up badly, got caught sleeping on the job several times. Then I found out he rented heavy equipment on MY account at a heavy equipment rental place. That was the last straw.

I haven't been back to lodge in 5 years. They keep excusing my annual dues in some bizarre hope I will be back. So I guess like it or not, I am still a Mason? Whatever.

I sat in the West last time I attended, and was expected to be WM the following year.

Anyway, it was always about going to help this brother do that. Owning trucks and heavy equipment didn't help. LOTS of fund raising for "brothers in need", but VERY little charitable work in the actual community, which was why I joined.

Good luck with that Masonry hocus pocus.

You have a problem with potential candidates getting the perspectives of other Masons? That should be rather telling to anyone considering it...

As a TEAM member, I feel the PRIVILEGE of posting wherever the hell I feel like it, as long as it's COC compliant.

Not only are you allowed to post your opinion as a team member, anyone no matter what their level of membership can post their opinion too.


Sorry you had this experience... it is not the majority across the board, in fact its quite the opposite. Most men have wonderful experiences.

Have you thought about joining another lodge and seeing how that goes, before defaming the entire organization?

  If you do not want to be part of this fraternity, I would suggest that you contact your lodge and have yourself removed.  Just having your name on the books costs the lodge money every year.  Money that can be used for the upkeep of the lodge or perhaps the good of someone outside of the lodge. 

The title of this thread is :

Non-Masons Official ask-a-question or comment Thread.

Seems Enzo300s comments fit right in line with the thread title.

But I am non mason, so comment may have a different meaning.

...

I didn't come here to "defame" Masonry. It was in my active topics list, and I peeked in. Reading the canned talking points of Beer Slayer, who I see has been a member here for 17 years, is pumping his pet organization, but yet is unwilling to pony up the measly $25 to give BACK to this community compelled me to chime in. It is what I see as TYPICAL behavior in the lodges, and having climbed the ranks, I am PLENTY familiar with the surrounding communities lodges. They're not different.

The lodge knows how I feel, and why. They can do as they please regarding my membership, means not a thing to me either way. They know that. Who am I to tell them not to waste lodge money? They never had a problem doing it before despite my protests.

Look, I don't think it is unfair for candidates to hear dissent. I know it is heavily frowned upon, but I'm not doing it outside of the Masons forum.

These are MY experiences.  NO charity fundraising. You want to help the community? Rotary or KoC do a great job of that, Masons in my experience, not so much outside of a few $100 scholarships that typically end up going to some members friends kid anyway.

We both know the "we don't recruit" thing is nonsense. It's a dying organization, and much discussion and effort goes into how to grow the lodge. Most are in ancient buildings that pretty much eat the membership dues just to maintain. What doesn't go to the building is often eaten up by the FSA members who ask for help from the lodge for themselves or "friends in need".  How many PM's in your lodge still attend? My experience has been that most members move through the chairs, and once they get their PM apron, stop attending unless they hold a position.

The ranks are also filled with "local professionals" (electricians, plumbers, realtors) who DEFINITELY use the lodge to benefit themselves professionally. While it isn't officially sanctioned, there is much pressure to hire "brothers" to do your work, and they are offended if you use some other person.

Whatever. Some people seem to be attracted to the secrecy, handshake, password stuff. I joined thinking it was a community organization and that was a big let down. A lot of people join to make friends. I have plenty already.

I'm not saying all lodges are the same. And there are a few truly good people in every lodge, and a few who the lodge always regrets letting in. There are DEFINITELY people in likely EVERY lodge who are there to take, not give. And those people are a bummer for those who are there to give and not take. You can always tell the takers at the installation dinners. They bring every freaking relative they have for the free fancy dinner. The last guy who hosed me was that guy. He even bought himself, out of lodge funds, a new tuxedo for installation as WM. How is that proper use of funds?

I could have been proud to be a Mason. Unfortunately, the FSA members who always have an eye out for any surplus in the budget made it impossible to do what I hoped to be doing as a Mason. And of course, those FSA guys were NEVER there for work parties to fix things around the lodge, or to help the South with meal preps, or any of that stuff.

Honestly, I am trying to be helpful here. If Masons hope for Masonry to continue, they need to purge their ranks of the leeches and spectators who are only their for their own personal reasons or motivations. WAY too many of them in the lodges I became familiar with. KoC, GoodFellows, many other orgs are on the streets at least a couple times a year to raise money for DEFINED charities under DEFINED rules of fundraising. Where are the Masons? Besides the small town annual parade, they're not out there.  MY experience was that it is a "get out of the house, see my friends and drink beer afterwards" club. That's fine, but seeing it promoted as some kind of benevolent community organization is misleading to prospective candidates, and results in the bitterness you see in my post, from people who joined with the intention of helping their community.

And the "grow" thing, I want to gag. Grow what? Understanding of "the ancient arts, parts and points"? What the hell good does that really do anyone? It's MASONIC knowledge for masonic reasons, and doesn't help a soul.
You're entitled to your opinions, I am entitled to mine. I think Masonry needs to change, drastically, or just go ahead and die. It siphons good intentioned people away from groups (I use KoC as an example, as they are the best community help org in my area) that NEED them, and are actually doing what the better members joined Masonry to do, but cannot, thanks to the FSA's within.

I respect your opinion, BUT

I don't have any of that experience. My lodge doesn't let in FSA and if they get in, its made clear that they wont be getting much out of us.
I'm in PA, we are old school.. Officers wear tuxes, members suits. No booze at meetings. We are all held to high standards. For instance, to be WM, you must be able to confer 2 degrees. Some jurisdictions require more, like a funeral service too.   PA doesn't want slack asses in charge. Stated meetings have 20 or so PM's all the officers and 40 members at least.  There is a several year line to be an officer.
 Every year we give about $20,000 to the non-Mason community like the fire dept, Library, senior center, veterans groups, etc. and 5 $2000 scholarships that go to our kids who get awesome grades... why is that wrong?   Ontop of that we give thousands to the Scottish Rite, DeMolay, Rainbow Girls, York Rite, etc.  This is just my lodge and its similar in my district and across PA.

I want to invite you to see what our Grand Lodge does and I'm going to provide you with some links.
Grand Lodge of PA. https://pamasons.org/

These next two I am most proud of,
Children's Home https://masonicchildrenshome.org/  We provide everything for about 40 kids who don't have parents. They come and live in 8 homes located in Elizabethtown PA. We will send them to college too.   Watch the vids on that page.
Help for our Heroes https://pamasons.org/heroes/ This program has provided baby showers for expectant mothers of servicemen. We provide everything the child needs for 1 full year including food/formula.

5 Senior living centers https://masonicvillages.org/  Masons and non Masons are welcome.
Raising a Reader https://pamasons.org/reader/  Lodges adopt schools in high risk areas to sponsor.
Youth foundation https://pmyf.org/  Its goal is to provide programs and resources for the young people of the Commonwealth through leadership, education, and mentoring. https://pmyf.org/scholarships/ To date, more than 725 awards, totaling in excess of $1,100,000

===============================================================================================

When you say that we don't do anything for anyone.... That doesn't comprehend.

You're right, Grand Lodge's do some very great work, and the members of lodges are its primary supporters. SOME members of the lodges..
Sounds like you have a much tighter ship than what is available to me locally. Those are some fabulous individual lodge numbers too. I'd stay for those kind of numbers, despite the treachery I've experienced.

I'll let my take away on this be that candidates should also vet their lodges, and make sure that their expectations are consistent with the what is happening in that lodge.

Mind sharing your state?

Not at all. PM outbound.

That's wonderful. My sincere apologies for my mistake. I'm apparently jaded about the topic.
Really, I'm sorry for the snide remarks.

Do you tithe in freemasonry? Or do mass, practice abstinence? Lean right or left as a majority?

No offense meant if it comes off like that, just truly interested in it.

No Offense taken... this thread was meant to help outsiders.  I am not a Masonry expert myself, I just happened to create this thread because like all Masons, I like to help people learn about it.

No Brother is required to give any money, outside of the dues amount. Each lodge has  membership dues. My lodge's dues are $75 a year. That  amount is used to help pay for the building, supplies, a newsletter, etc.

Masonry is not a religion, but you must believe in a Supreme Being to join... We don't care  who your God is, that is between you and Him. You cannot be an atheist.

Abstinence is a religious based belief and its none of our business.

Politics isn't discussed in a Lodge meeting... You are free to talk about it outside of Lodge as you see fit.  The members wont push you to vote a certain way and the organization certainly doesn't take a stance one way or the other during an election year.  Its my experience that if your Lodge is located in a Republican area of town, you will have a majority Republican membership and a similar membership in a liberal town.  

Sometimes it feels like a good percentage of my income goes to Masonic uses.  Fortunately I purchased perpetual membership in the core bodies I belong to; Lodge, Chapter, Council and Commandery.  The rest are honorary and invitational so you demit without effecting the core.

Just to be clear to the guy asking the question....

NONE of this is forced like tithing in a church.    You chose to join these extra clubs within Masonry and you knew there were extra fees.

Well said

I apologize if my statement could have seemed as a requirement within Freemasonry.  Many Freemasons join "Appendant" Bodies once they are a Master Mason.  These bodies serve to enhance and expand on the lessons and precepts taught in Symbolic Lodge.  Each body has it's own dues in order to support their expenses; such as rent, supplies, etc.  Some of the organizations a Mason can petition to join, some are honorary and by invitation.  Often a Mason joins because his Brothers and friends are members.

Additionally, Freemasonry has some wonderful charities that we support with both our time and our wallets.

It is not uncommon to join many of this "side" organizations.  Hence my comment.

Which you apparently did not do yourself.

And you wonder why people question freemasonry practices.  You have a fundamental fact about Christianity wrong.

Any church that forces tithing is wrong and unscriptural.  Tithe is required by God for the believer but he never appointed an enforcer.

I can sling some mean floor tile, but have never done mortared brick work.  Is an MCI course an acceptable substitute, or do I need to work on a crew for a while?