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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:35:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean that pipeline cost them however many millions/billions. And its his major tool against the west/germany. Blowing it up means he can't play games with the west anymore. He looses a ton of leverage with the loss of it. And I doubt he's gonna get some major support boost internally with it blown up. You think the oligarchs that run that shit are happy about it? Thats the real power in russia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: im still not saying im 100% sure russia did this, because right now, anyone saying 100% anything with this limited info is a fool. and you bring up a great point, their little war is already on and not only are they losing, but they are losing bigly. its guaranteed he's lost a ton of support internally. if the satan-worshipping western world (seriously, you have to watch his latest speech) is now attacking their pipeline as well, you dont think that will help to solidify support for him internally? i mean, the pipeline was already sitting there unused. I mean that pipeline cost them however many millions/billions. And its his major tool against the west/germany. Blowing it up means he can't play games with the west anymore. He looses a ton of leverage with the loss of it. And I doubt he's gonna get some major support boost internally with it blown up. You think the oligarchs that run that shit are happy about it? Thats the real power in russia. EVERYTHING he does is focused internally. Any Oligarch who is "unhappy" about Putin APPARENTLY becomes SO unhappy that he kills himself and his family. Sad oligarchs have been dropping like flies. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:42:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't a stretch at all. Putin is currently president because of a series of apartment building bombings that were orchestrated by the KBG as false flag operations. Those bombings were blamed on the Chechens and used as the excuse for the second Chechen war. They also served to put Putin in a position where he could take the reins of power from Yeltsin. IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:43:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EVERYTHING he does is focused internally. Any Oligarch who is "unhappy" about Putin APPARENTLY becomes SO unhappy that he kills himself and his family. Sad oligarchs have been dropping like flies. Yeah till that day he eats that polonium popsicle. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:43:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. But our grandchildren will call us "The Greatest Generation" because we went along with the globalist treachery. That's exactly what Biden said would happen. He's not senile, he's a prophet. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:43:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EVERYTHING he does is focused internally. Any Oligarch who is "unhappy" about Putin APPARENTLY becomes SO unhappy that he kills himself and his family. Sad oligarchs have been dropping like flies. It's hard being a Russian oligarch these days. Americans taking your yachts, Putin killing you. So sad. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:45:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's hard being a Russian oligarch these days. Americans taking your yachts, Putin killing you. So sad. Russian oligarchs are the real victims here. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:45:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It isn't a stretch at all. Putin is currently president because of a series of apartment building bombings that were orchestrated by the KBG as false flag operations. Those bombings were blamed on the Chechens and used as the excuse for the second Chechen war. They also served to put Putin in a position where he could take the reins of power from Yeltsin. IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:46:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It isn't a stretch at all. Putin is currently president because of a series of apartment building bombings that were orchestrated by the KBG as false flag operations. Those bombings were blamed on the Chechens and used as the excuse for the second Chechen war. They also served to put Putin in a position where he could take the reins of power from Yeltsin. IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:47:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Looks like a great false flag by Russia judging by how so many here want it to be blamed on America. That's just my OPINION.
Don't get too upset... I am still waiting for actual facts and evidence like everyone else in the world. Russia slammed two missiles into our city at 1am. One by a large bus stop/market that didn't hurt anyone. The other in a residential neighborhood fucking up about 60+ homes. We don't know the actual death toll as they are still digging. Russia is nothing more than a terrorist state. Fuck Putin as his ball lickers. No way they would do something irrational.  "Russian forces carried out a missile strike on the city of Dnipro on the night of 28–29 September, killing at least three and injuring five civilians". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/29/7369561/index.amp |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:49:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It isn't a stretch at all. Putin is currently president because of a series of apartment building bombings that were orchestrated by the KBG as false flag operations. Those bombings were blamed on the Chechens and used as the excuse for the second Chechen war. They also served to put Putin in a position where he could take the reins of power from Yeltsin. IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Beat me to it. It is working greatly if that is what it truly was. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:53:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:54:25 PM EDT
[#12]
More cold water on the tin foil circle jerk (sounds painful).
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/28/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-leak-russian-navy-ships/index.html First on CNN: European security officials observed Russian Navy ships in vicinity of Nord Stream pipeline leaks. European security officials on Monday and Tuesday observed Russian Navy support ships in the vicinity of leaks in the Nord Stream pipelines likely caused by underwater explosions, according two Western intelligence officials and one other source familiar with the matter. It's unclear whether the ships had anything to do with those explosions, these sources and others said -- but it's one of the many factors that investigators will be looking into. Russian submarines were also observed not far from those areas last week, one of the intelligence officials said. I know, I know, it's from Globogym MSM CNN spreading the lies of the European MIC or some such. Deal with it.  (H/T @Chaingun) |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:55:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You keep making excuses for the Russians and it's weird. They have a history of using false flag operations to influence their own population. This is absolutely in line with their modus operandi. Lol what excuses am I making. I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense to me, and I reject the assertion that a false flag actually helps him at this point. Sorry not sorry that I don't like your pet theory. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:57:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol what excuses am I making. I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense to me, and I reject the assertion that a false flag actually helps him at this point. Sorry not sorry that I don't like your pet theory. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You keep making excuses for the Russians and it's weird. They have a history of using false flag operations to influence their own population. This is absolutely in line with their modus operandi. Lol what excuses am I making. I'm just saying it doesn't make any sense to me, and I reject the assertion that a false flag actually helps him at this point. Sorry not sorry that I don't like your pet theory. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:57:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Europe has resigned itself to making due without Russian gas. Putin knows this. He probably knew it before they did. Do you REALLY believe that they were willing to ease sanctions on Russia or stop sending weapons to Ukraine in exchange for gas? EVERYTHING Putin does is focused internally, and about maintaining power. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 2:59:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Europe has resigned itself to making due without Russian gas. Putin knows this. He probably knew it before they did. Do you REALLY believe that they were willing to ease sanctions on Russia or stop sending weapons to Ukraine in exchange for gas? EVERYTHING Putin does is focused internally, and about maintaining power. I think Europe is democratic, and this winter is gonna pretty unpopular over there. And I don't think most europeans give that much of a shit about Ukraine when the rubber hits the actual road. And I do think Putin was counting on those facts. Now he's fucked with no options. And I'm sure he'll do whatever he can to play it internally but still, it leaves him with far fewer choices to negotiate with Europe. And in terms of false flags, he could easily come up with something far easier, cheaper and more dramatic if he wanted to, and still have the nordstream option on the table. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:00:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Russia has always been paranoid. Finding a way of conveniently making himself the victim instead of the aggressor to cover his failings is classic Russian for Putin. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:02:14 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He has the facts. If Brennon said it was Russia... We KNOW it wasn't. Germany Believes High Explosive Devices Equivalent To "500 Kilograms Of TNT" Used To Destroy Nord Stream WW3 is upon us all Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Given that Brennan is now blaming Russia, it's fair to assume U.S. or Ukraine actually did it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p6mWnT8G2cHaving facts eliminate the need to assume. Do you have facts? I'm willing to accept anything as long as I see proof. He has the facts. If Brennon said it was Russia... We KNOW it wasn't. Germany Believes High Explosive Devices Equivalent To "500 Kilograms Of TNT" Used To Destroy Nord Stream only a state actor can be behind the action....Russian leadership, however, described the process as international terrorism directed against Russia...And now NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg called the Nord Stream attack "sabotage" and said it would be met with a "determined response." WW3 is upon us all |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:02:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the escaping gas will subside once the pressure is greater outside the pipeline? As I understand it, sea water is not just bad inside pipelines, it’s a pipeline killer. So nordstream 1 and 2 are out of commission permanently? Who is responsible for leaks in the suspected area? Joint venture between Russia and the recipients? Is there not something akin to shutoff valves at certain lengths to minimize any potential breach? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Someone help me out... If the gas was “cut off” then why is it leaking? I’m not schooled on undersea pipelines so my question may be easy to answer. It was still pressurized, now the gas that was in the pipes is bubbling up and water is filling the pipes. So the escaping gas will subside once the pressure is greater outside the pipeline? As I understand it, sea water is not just bad inside pipelines, it’s a pipeline killer. So nordstream 1 and 2 are out of commission permanently? Who is responsible for leaks in the suspected area? Joint venture between Russia and the recipients? Is there not something akin to shutoff valves at certain lengths to minimize any potential breach? Excellent questions. I would think that intermediate shutoff valves would protect much of the pipeline but I really don’t know if that is possible. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:04:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Admit what? That Soros, Hillary, WEF, Globohomo, MSM, blah, blah, blah? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He challenges his guests and he says things that need to be said about American politics. Everything Tucker says is usually on point. Unless he's talking about Russia and Ukraine. Then he becomes a Russian Propagandist's dream come true. He invites known Russian propagandists and apologists on and NEVER challenges them. This is 100% undeniable. Geez. I’m sure you don’t see the sheer absurdity of such a statement. But on the other hand you also believe the us MSM is lying all the time, except about the Ukraine topic…. Biden, Soros, the MSM etc lie about everything. Except Ukraine. Everything they tell us about Ukraine is absolutely, handed down from god on stone tablets, true and if you question ANYTHING they put out about Ukraine you're a Putin dick sucking Russian shill. Straw man It’s less of a straw man than your arguments on the topic. You sound like Hilary Clinton promulgating a bogeyman to hide her own nefariousness. Choosing a boogeyman who is an asshole is just good tradecraft, not resounding evidence. He will never admit it. Admit what? That Soros, Hillary, WEF, Globohomo, MSM, blah, blah, blah? Admit the logical fallacies in your arguments. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:04:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It isn't a stretch at all. Putin is currently president because of a series of apartment building bombings that were orchestrated by the KBG as false flag operations. Those bombings were blamed on the Chechens and used as the excuse for the second Chechen war. They also served to put Putin in a position where he could take the reins of power from Yeltsin. IDK, that was then, this is now. And I don't think russians are gonna go all rah rah muh putin over this. And its far more valuable to have the pipeline as a lever. It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. I'm not sure what to believe with all this. But, doesn't it seem odd he would decide it's worthless right before winter, when it has the most value? Russian gas has been off through only mild/hot months so far. NG was never going to be a big deal until November. Now, when shortages potentially start meaning life endangerment - that's the moment he wants to lose leverage? If he wanted to motivate his populous, why not fake an attack on something more emotional - civilians (he clearly doesn't care about their lives), symbolic structures, etc. That would be far more effective in this goal, and wouldn't be cutting off his foot at the same time. I'm not discounting he did it. But if he did, the reasons are not obvious at all. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:06:51 PM EDT
[#22]
The coming days will tell us more.
If Russia moves to severe the trans-Atlantic internet cables we'll know it wasn't the Russians. If the Russians do nothing we'll know it was either them or the Russians themselves believe it was an accident. If the Russians sincerely believed that the US was responsible I find it hard to believe they would not do anything. You would expect at the very least some kind of cyber attack or something in response. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:07:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure what to believe with all this. But, doesn't it seem odd he would decide it's worthless right before winter, when it has the most value? Russian gas has been off through only mild/hot months so far. NG was never going to be a big deal until November. Now, when shortages potentially start meaning life endangerment - that's the moment he wants to lose leverage? If he wanted to motivate his populous, why not fake an attack on something more emotional - civilians (he clearly doesn't care about their lives), symbolic structures, etc. That would be far more effective in this goal, and wouldn't be cutting off his foot at the same time. I'm not discounting he did it. But if he did, the reasons are not obvious at all. Yeah, like I said it makes 0 sense for Putin to do this. And as you say, plenty of alternate ways to get his folks riled up without taking his Euro-lever offline at the exact moment it starts to become useful. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:07:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The coming days will tell us more. If Russia moves to severe the trans-Atlantic internet cables we'll know it wasn't the Russians. If the Russians do nothing we'll know it was either them or the Russians themselves believe it was an accident. If the Russians sincerely believed that the US was responsible I find it hard to believe they would not do anything. You would expect at the very least some kind of cyber attack or something in response. 
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:09:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The coming days will tell us more. If Russia moves to severe the trans-Atlantic internet cables we'll know it wasn't the Russians. If the Russians do nothing we'll know it was either them or the Russians themselves believe it was an accident. If the Russians sincerely believed that the US was responsible I find it hard to believe they would not do anything. You would expect at the very least some kind of cyber attack or something in response. IDK, I'd assume china might have the capability to do it too, and US/russia fight kinda benefits them too. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:10:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Admit the logical fallacies in your arguments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He challenges his guests and he says things that need to be said about American politics. Everything Tucker says is usually on point. Unless he's talking about Russia and Ukraine. Then he becomes a Russian Propagandist's dream come true. He invites known Russian propagandists and apologists on and NEVER challenges them. This is 100% undeniable. Geez. I’m sure you don’t see the sheer absurdity of such a statement. But on the other hand you also believe the us MSM is lying all the time, except about the Ukraine topic…. Biden, Soros, the MSM etc lie about everything. Except Ukraine. Everything they tell us about Ukraine is absolutely, handed down from god on stone tablets, true and if you question ANYTHING they put out about Ukraine you're a Putin dick sucking Russian shill. Straw man It’s less of a straw man than your arguments on the topic. You sound like Hilary Clinton promulgating a bogeyman to hide her own nefariousness. Choosing a boogeyman who is an asshole is just good tradecraft, not resounding evidence. He will never admit it. Admit what? That Soros, Hillary, WEF, Globohomo, MSM, blah, blah, blah? Admit the logical fallacies in your arguments. I presented no fallacy or strawman. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:11:49 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like a great false flag by Russia judging by how so many here want it to be blamed on America. That's just my OPINION. Don't get too upset... I am still waiting for actual facts and evidence like everyone else in the world. Russia slammed two missiles into our city at 1am. One by a large bus stop/market that didn't hurt anyone. The other in a residential neighborhood fucking up about 60+ homes. We don't know the actual death toll as they are still digging. Russia is nothing more than a terrorist state. Fuck Putin and his ball lickers. No way they would do something irrational. "Russian forces carried out a missile strike on the city of Dnipro on the night of 28–29 September, killing at least three and injuring five civilians". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/29/7369561/index.amp AMEN! |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:13:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, I'd assume china might have the capability to do it too, and US/russia fight kinda benefits them too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The coming days will tell us more. If Russia moves to severe the trans-Atlantic internet cables we'll know it wasn't the Russians. If the Russians do nothing we'll know it was either them or the Russians themselves believe it was an accident. If the Russians sincerely believed that the US was responsible I find it hard to believe they would not do anything. You would expect at the very least some kind of cyber attack or something in response. IDK, I'd assume china might have the capability to do it too, and US/russia fight kinda benefits them too. Russia has a dedicated fleet that is specifically focused on attacking undersea infrastructure such as communication cables and pipelines. It's a part of their warfighting doctrine. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:16:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone thinking that they're a 9x18 away from becoming the next new boss, turning on the pipeline and going back to normal has to be doing a fair bit of reevaluation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've been mulling over the espionage and treachery of this, and I think I can see where @Cincinnatus is coming from finally. At first I was certain Russia would not blow up a giant piece of leverage like this. But, what if Putin needed that leverage gone to solidify the ranks INTERNALLY? As in, shut down options for peace and negotiations that his potential dissenters or usurpers would use as a rallying point to overthrow or weaken him? A bit like salting the fields so your successors are fucked over if you will... Anyone thinking that they're a 9x18 away from becoming the next new boss, turning on the pipeline and going back to normal has to be doing a fair bit of reevaluation. That is the most rational explanation for Russia doing it that I have heard so far. A false flag for sympathy or to rally the troops doesn’t make sense. The only other thing I have come up with is he will use it as justification to blow up someone else’s pipeline but that is more trouble than it is worth IMO. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:19:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia has a dedicated fleet that is specifically focused on attacking undersea infrastructure such as communication cables and pipelines. It's a part of their warfighting doctrine. I'm well aware of that. I'd assume China might have similar capabilities too, the US does as well. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:19:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, I'd assume china might have the capability to do it too, and US/russia fight kinda benefits them too. I would be very surprised if China would do it given their current economic situation. Although under good times for China a conflict between the USA and China might benefit them China is currently in the midst of a serious economic crisis and I imagine they want stability of global markets right now. Remember, above all else the CCP fears its own people and if times get any worse for China the CCP could have a serious problem on its hand either from its own citizens of Xi from the various factions within the CCP that would be happy to see him step down. Honestly, I think at the end of the day it's going to turn out to be just an accident. Shitty Russian natural gas line probably not being properly maintained during a conflict. I don't know a great deal about pipeline, but I'm guessing they do take considerable monitoring, regulation, and maintenance particularly when they sit at depth along a cold ocean floor. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:19:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This event is exactly the same thing as cutting off Japans metal/oil. We'll also have a false flag like Pearl Harbor, radar knew they were coming . I never trusted that squirrelly little bastard.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:21:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm well aware of that. I'd assume China might have similar capabilities too, the US does as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Russia has a dedicated fleet that is specifically focused on attacking undersea infrastructure such as communication cables and pipelines. It's a part of their warfighting doctrine. I'm well aware of that. I'd assume China might have similar capabilities too, the US does as well. All modern navies have the "capability." But Russia has a dedicated force that is equipped specifically for the mission, and trains to fight that way. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:23:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia has a dedicated fleet that is specifically focused on attacking undersea infrastructure such as communication cables and pipelines. It's a part of their warfighting doctrine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The coming days will tell us more. If Russia moves to severe the trans-Atlantic internet cables we'll know it wasn't the Russians. If the Russians do nothing we'll know it was either them or the Russians themselves believe it was an accident. If the Russians sincerely believed that the US was responsible I find it hard to believe they would not do anything. You would expect at the very least some kind of cyber attack or something in response. IDK, I'd assume china might have the capability to do it too, and US/russia fight kinda benefits them too. Russia has a dedicated fleet that is specifically focused on attacking undersea infrastructure such as communication cables and pipelines. It's a part of their warfighting doctrine. I just don't see why Putin would blow them up when he controls the outflow of natural gas. What's the advantage to Russia of damaging their own pipeline? False flag? Why? Russia is certainly in no position to take on all of NATO right now. I think it was just shitty Russian engineering and maintenance/monitoring combined. From what I understand these pipelines aren't set and forget, they require a massive amount of on going maintenance and monitoring. Let's also remember that Russia is super corrupt and likely much of the money that was invested for this project was probably siphoned off so some oligarch could have a yacht and super model girlfriends meaning corners were probably cut in multiple areas. Unless we're dealing with some Tom Clancy like rogue actors within the Russian Navy. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:26:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don't see why Putin would blow them up when he controls the outflow of natural gas. What's the advantage to Russia of damaging their own pipeline? False flag? Why? Russia is certainly in no position to take on all of NATO right now. I think it was just shitty Russian engineering and maintenance/monitoring combined. From what I understand these pipelines aren't set and forget, they require a massive amount of on going maintenance and monitoring. Let's also remember that Russia is super corrupt and likely much of the money that was invested for this project was probably siphoned off so some oligarch could have a yacht and super model girlfriends meaning corners were probably cut in multiple areas. Unless we're dealing with some Tom Clancy like rogue actors within the Russian Navy. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:26:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would be very surprised if China would do it given their current economic situation. Although under good times for China a conflict between the USA and China might benefit them China is currently in the midst of a serious economic crisis and I imagine they want stability of global markets right now. Remember, above all else the CCP fears its own people and if times get any worse for China the CCP could have a serious problem on its hand either from its own citizens of Xi from the various factions within the CCP that would be happy to see him step down. Honestly, I think at the end of the day it's going to turn out to be just an accident. Shitty Russian natural gas line probably not being properly maintained during a conflict. I don't know a great deal about pipeline, but I'm guessing they do take considerable monitoring, regulation, and maintenance particularly when they sit at depth along a cold ocean floor. Yeah, maybe its just a happy accident. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:27:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have routinely killed their own citizens and blown up their own buildings in false flag attacks. Disabling a pipeline in a way that can be fixed in a couple of weeks is very low stakes compared to their past operations. IDK, can this be fixed in a few weeks? From what I've read it looks like its pretty well fucked and inoperative for near future and possibly permanently. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:28:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AMEN! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like a great false flag by Russia judging by how so many here want it to be blamed on America. That's just my OPINION. Don't get too upset... I am still waiting for actual facts and evidence like everyone else in the world. Russia slammed two missiles into our city at 1am. One by a large bus stop/market that didn't hurt anyone. The other in a residential neighborhood fucking up about 60+ homes. We don't know the actual death toll as they are still digging. Russia is nothing more than a terrorist state. Fuck Putin and his ball lickers. No way they would do something irrational. "Russian forces carried out a missile strike on the city of Dnipro on the night of 28–29 September, killing at least three and injuring five civilians". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/09/29/7369561/index.amp AMEN! Totally rational. Denatzified that neighborhood real good! What a pile of fucking shit Russia is. If some of you trust Russia more than the US, perhaps move there. Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:28:38 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, like I said it makes 0 sense for Putin to do this. And as you say, plenty of alternate ways to get his folks riled up without taking his Euro-lever offline at the exact moment it starts to become useful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not sure what to believe with all this. But, doesn't it seem odd he would decide it's worthless right before winter, when it has the most value? Russian gas has been off through only mild/hot months so far. NG was never going to be a big deal until November. Now, when shortages potentially start meaning life endangerment - that's the moment he wants to lose leverage? If he wanted to motivate his populous, why not fake an attack on something more emotional - civilians (he clearly doesn't care about their lives), symbolic structures, etc. That would be far more effective in this goal, and wouldn't be cutting off his foot at the same time. I'm not discounting he did it. But if he did, the reasons are not obvious at all. Yeah, like I said it makes 0 sense for Putin to do this. And as you say, plenty of alternate ways to get his folks riled up without taking his Euro-lever offline at the exact moment it starts to become useful. That pipeline became become useless abandoned infrastructure as soon as he invaded Ukraine, and Putin knows it. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:31:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, can this be fixed in a few weeks? From what I've read it looks like its pretty well fucked and inoperative for near future and possibly permanently. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They have routinely killed their own citizens and blown up their own buildings in false flag attacks. Disabling a pipeline in a way that can be fixed in a couple of weeks is very low stakes compared to their past operations. IDK, can this be fixed in a few weeks? From what I've read it looks like its pretty well fucked and inoperative for near future and possibly permanently. Posted a pre existing contingency paper from a few years ago earlier, as well as some professional estimate and a some clearly WAGs. Depending on what's actually damaged and who you believe, a number of weeks to at least a year, tho the Hong Kong pipeline took longer, with different challenges |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:33:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have routinely killed their own citizens and blown up their own buildings in false flag attacks. Disabling a pipeline in a way that can be fixed in a couple of weeks is very low stakes compared to their past operations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just don't see why Putin would blow them up when he controls the outflow of natural gas. What's the advantage to Russia of damaging their own pipeline? False flag? Why? Russia is certainly in no position to take on all of NATO right now. I think it was just shitty Russian engineering and maintenance/monitoring combined. From what I understand these pipelines aren't set and forget, they require a massive amount of on going maintenance and monitoring. Let's also remember that Russia is super corrupt and likely much of the money that was invested for this project was probably siphoned off so some oligarch could have a yacht and super model girlfriends meaning corners were probably cut in multiple areas. Unless we're dealing with some Tom Clancy like rogue actors within the Russian Navy. The same country that, even in post-Soviet times, was content to let dozens of its own seamen suffocate to death in a damaged sub before accepting Western assistance to rescue them. Cutting its nose off to spite its face is de rigueur for Russia. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:33:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It became worthless as a lever, so he determined it was of greater value as a false flag target. Nah, I very much doubt that. The timing of this right before winter is pretty spot on. He already turned off the gas, and best case for him, in December Europe reconsideres and comes to the table. Now he can't do shit. And I don't buy this is propping him up internally much if at all. Besides, where’s the flag? A false flag scenario contains evidence against an innocent party. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Besides, where’s the flag? A false flag scenario contains evidence against an innocent party. For Putin's audience, the evidence is whatever he says it is. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:36:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posted a pre existing contingency paper from a few years ago earlier, as well as some professional estimate and a some clearly WAGs. Depending on what's actually damaged and who you believe, a number of weeks to at least a year, tho the Hong Kong pipeline took longer, with different challenges So months is a pretty easy middleground. Or "till after winter". |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:40:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For Putin's audience, the evidence is whatever he says it is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Besides, where’s the flag? A false flag scenario contains evidence against an innocent party. For Putin's audience, the evidence is whatever he says it is. Seems the same for Biden’s audience. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:41:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He has the facts. If Brennon said it was Russia... We KNOW it wasn't. Germany Believes High Explosive Devices Equivalent To "500 Kilograms Of TNT" Used To Destroy Nord Stream WW3 is upon us all Maybe you could tell your Russian friends to back off and stop starting it |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:42:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That pipeline became become useless abandoned infrastructure as soon as he invaded Ukraine, and Putin knows it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure what to believe with all this. But, doesn't it seem odd he would decide it's worthless right before winter, when it has the most value? Russian gas has been off through only mild/hot months so far. NG was never going to be a big deal until November. Now, when shortages potentially start meaning life endangerment - that's the moment he wants to lose leverage? If he wanted to motivate his populous, why not fake an attack on something more emotional - civilians (he clearly doesn't care about their lives), symbolic structures, etc. That would be far more effective in this goal, and wouldn't be cutting off his foot at the same time. I'm not discounting he did it. But if he did, the reasons are not obvious at all. Yeah, like I said it makes 0 sense for Putin to do this. And as you say, plenty of alternate ways to get his folks riled up without taking his Euro-lever offline at the exact moment it starts to become useful. That pipeline became become useless abandoned infrastructure as soon as he invaded Ukraine, and Putin knows it. From OUR perspective, it may have not appeared useless. But Putin knows where he is taking this conflict, and it is apparently a place where that pipeline BECOMES useless. |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:42:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So months is a pretty easy middleground. Or "till after winter". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Posted a pre existing contingency paper from a few years ago earlier, as well as some professional estimate and a some clearly WAGs. Depending on what's actually damaged and who you believe, a number of weeks to at least a year, tho the Hong Kong pipeline took longer, with different challenges So months is a pretty easy middleground. Or "till after winter". Yep official words from Nordstream AG until assessments done there's no way to tell. Swedes found a 4th leak. Keep in mind Yamal-Europe (through Poland and Belarus) is readily viable (may need compressors) but shut down by Gazprom in May. So there's alternatives, even outside the greatly reduced Soyuz//Bratstvo. Nords weren't the only, just the most modern and efficient |
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:43:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm pro-Trump and pro-Ukraine, as are many others here. The idea that one precludes the other is bizarre. Same 
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Posted: 9/29/2022 3:44:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From OUR perspective, it may have not appeared useless. But Putin knows where he is taking this conflict, and it is apparently a place where that pipeline BECOMES useless. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure what to believe with all this. But, doesn't it seem odd he would decide it's worthless right before winter, when it has the most value? Russian gas has been off through only mild/hot months so far. NG was never going to be a big deal until November. Now, when shortages potentially start meaning life endangerment - that's the moment he wants to lose leverage? If he wanted to motivate his populous, why not fake an attack on something more emotional - civilians (he clearly doesn't care about their lives), symbolic structures, etc. That would be far more effective in this goal, and wouldn't be cutting off his foot at the same time. I'm not discounting he did it. But if he did, the reasons are not obvious at all. Yeah, like I said it makes 0 sense for Putin to do this. And as you say, plenty of alternate ways to get his folks riled up without taking his Euro-lever offline at the exact moment it starts to become useful. That pipeline became become useless abandoned infrastructure as soon as he invaded Ukraine, and Putin knows it. From OUR perspective, it may have not appeared useless. But Putin knows where he is taking this conflict, and it is apparently a place where that pipeline BECOMES useless. Once the Kremlin made Energy Workers 100% conscriptable, you knew where this was going |
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