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Link Posted: 12/18/2015 11:17:16 PM EST
[#1]
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And so am I, and assuming that you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, so are you.

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Edit and she's a saint


And so am I, and assuming that you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, so are you.



How do you define saint?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 9:24:51 AM EST
[#2]
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Did you look at the sources?

Hutchinson is used extensively, as is one study from the ultra-liberal Université de Montréal, Vijay Prashad, and a host of "criticisms" for accepting honors from people or political leaders later found to have been suspected of bad actions. In short, she was not politically savvy enough to know who did what in world politics, and some liberals have taken issue with her.

All of her work was in vain, I guess.

You should know better than this. The citation used is akin to attacking gun rights and using Chuck Schumer, Berkley, and some MSNBC broadcasts reports.
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Where do you guys think all that money went? Because she sure wasn't spending it on improving conditions, providing medical care, or lessening suffering.

How can you really defend someone that thinks that poor people suffering is a good thing?



Cite


Here you go...

Here's your cites, 23 to be exact.

Yeah, it's Wiki, but cites are noted along with several web links.


Did you look at the sources?

Hutchinson is used extensively, as is one study from the ultra-liberal Université de Montréal, Vijay Prashad, and a host of "criticisms" for accepting honors from people or political leaders later found to have been suspected of bad actions. In short, she was not politically savvy enough to know who did what in world politics, and some liberals have taken issue with her.

All of her work was in vain, I guess.

You should know better than this. The citation used is akin to attacking gun rights and using Chuck Schumer, Berkley, and some MSNBC broadcasts reports.


You asked for cites, they've been provided.

There are far more critics of her than just the 3 your reference, but you've proven in this post and others that anything or anyone connected to the Catholic Church is infallible or at least have some sort of excuse for it if they can provide you a cite.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 9:30:01 AM EST
[#3]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 9:55:08 AM EST
[#4]
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I'm always pleased to see how religion atheistic hatred brings people together.
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FIFY


There is some serious darkness in this thread.  

I wonder why?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 9:55:34 AM EST
[#5]
I love all the haters, listen bitches, the more you hate, the more you are envious!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:00:52 AM EST
[#6]
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TRADITIONS need to be measured against the Biblical teaching. If it doesn't align with the scriptures it is wrong. That can become IDOL WORSHIP real easy. When you lift a human up you create an idol. She did nothing special. I have seen many miracles through the years and as far as I know no one received any credit for them. God hears and answers prayers for all his children. Maybe not the way we would like sometimes but he does answer.
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She's no more a Saint than any other Born Again Christian. Simply a tradition of the Catholic church. They apparently don't study their Bible but take what the priest and pope a dope have to say about it. The Bible is full of contradictions to this fable.
<snip>


Did you try writing them a letter?

ETA: ...or, their church, their rules?


I don't dispute that..However this is a man made tradition and is completely UN-Biblical. I can call you a moron but that doesn't make you one


But what does it mean, calling her a saint?  It doesn't "make" her anything.  She's still dead.  It's nothing more than the Catholic Hall of Fame.  As for un-biblical traditions, every Bible-based church there is does things a different way.  Is yours the only one that's right, or are those just traditions?


TRADITIONS need to be measured against the Biblical teaching. If it doesn't align with the scriptures it is wrong. That can become IDOL WORSHIP real easy. When you lift a human up you create an idol. She did nothing special. I have seen many miracles through the years and as far as I know no one received any credit for them. God hears and answers prayers for all his children. Maybe not the way we would like sometimes but he does answer.


Yeah,yeah yeah, and anything but the Kings Jame's version in English is false.  

Listen--your interpretation of the Bible might disagree with theirs but it is silly to say that it's non-biblical.


Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:03:11 AM EST
[#7]
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Intercessory prayer is practiced by Catholics.

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Protestants are just pissed because their prayers don't do shit.


Nope, the results are orders of magnitude different, positive, and real, and there are no intermediate approvers, conduits, or intercessories.  Protestant prayer is amazing like that.






There is none in Catholicism either.


Intercessory prayer is practiced by Catholics.




And protestants don't ask each other to pray for them?  All of those "my family member is sick, please pray for us" threads must be from Catholics then.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:05:46 AM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:09:01 AM EST
[#9]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:09:22 AM EST
[#10]
“At the end of our lives, we will not be judged by how many diplomas we have received, how much money we have made or how many great things we have done.  We will be judged by 'I was hungry and you gave me to eat.  I was naked and you clothed me.  I was homeless and you took me in.'...  This is Christ in distressing disguise.”
(Mother) Teresa of Calcutta

“There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God.  I have always said that we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic.”
(Mother) Teresa of Calcutta

Mary London, a volunteer in Calcutta wrote concerning (Mother) Teresa's home for the dying, “There is two rooms w/ 50 to 60 men in one and 50 to 60 women in another.  They're dying.  They're not being given painkillers really beyond aspirin...for the sort of pain that goes with terminal cancer...”

It was not for a lack of funds.  One investigative reporter stated that “Mother Teresa's global income is more than enough to outfit several first class clinics in Bengal.  The decision not to do so, and indeed to run a haphazard and cranky institution... is  a deliberate one.  The point is not the honest relief of suffering but the promulgation of a cult based on death and suffering and subjection.  Mother Teresa (who... checked into some of the finest and costliest clinics and hospitals in the west during her bouts with heart trouble and old age) once gave this game away in a filmed interview.  She described  a person who was in the last agonies of cancer and suffering unbearable pain.  With a smile, Mother Teresa told the camera what she told this terminal patient: 'You are suffering like Christ on the cross.  So Jesus must be kissing you.”

You see (Mother) Teresa was only expressing her doctrine, her beliefs.  She believed that personal suffering helped to earn salvation.  That is like saying that a man beating his wife helps her grow emotionally.

At the 1993 Presidential Prayer Breakfast she stated: “ One of the most demanding things for me is travelling everywhere- and with publicity.  I have said to Jesus that if I don't go to heaven for anything else, I will go to heaven for all the traveling with all the publicity, because it has purified me and sacrificed me and made me really ready to go to heaven.”

Michael Freze, author of They Bore the wounds of Christ glorifies the saints, who supposedly in response to Christ's request, “offer themselves up to suffer in union with Christ for the sins of the world.”  He calls them, “other Christs among us.”  He also says: “A lot of people, catholics and others, say, “What about the crucifixion wasn't that our salvation once for all?  'No it wasn't.  It was the beginning of salvation...the redemption plan is ongoing.  God chooses people to participate in Christ's passion...Jesus is always offering Himself...”
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:10:49 AM EST
[#11]
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All Protestants define it as the Bible does.

Acts 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

ALL Christians are "saints".


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Edit and she's a saint


And so am I, and assuming that you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, so are you.



How do you define saint?


All Protestants define it as the Bible does.

Acts 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

ALL Christians are "saints".




Cool.  Do you lay hands on the sick to heal them?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:14:47 AM EST
[#12]
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That is a far different practice than pleading for a saint, a dead person, to pray for us.

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...

The practice of prayers of intercession is found AND recommended in Scripture, but the Church is Christo-centric and there is no path through Heaven, but through Christ himself.

So you have never prayed on behalf of anyone else, a mother, friend, wife?




That is a far different practice than pleading for a saint, a dead person, to pray for us.


The Bible tells us that those who die in Christ are not dead.  Why don't you follow scripture?

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.  
John 11:26
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:22:27 AM EST
[#13]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:22:41 AM EST
[#14]
We grading miracles on a curve now?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:25:33 AM EST
[#15]
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Many Protestant denominations do just that.  Some also anoint with oil.

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Cool.  Do you lay hands on the sick to heal them?


Many Protestant denominations do just that.  Some also anoint with oil.



I mean you personally.

ETA:  I'm not being a wise guy.  Listen for a prompt from the Holy Spirit, don't be afraid, don't be afraid to "fail", and especially don't be afraid to make a "fool" out of yourself.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:26:16 AM EST
[#16]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:29:11 AM EST
[#17]
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Yes, me personally. We lay hands on them to pray for them.  God heals them as He sees best.  I can't "heal" anyone.



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Cool.  Do you lay hands on the sick to heal them?


Many Protestant denominations do just that.  Some also anoint with oil.



I mean you personally.


Yes, me personally. We lay hands on them to pray for them.  God heals them as He sees best.  I can't "heal" anyone.





Good for you.  Blessings.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:30:07 AM EST
[#18]


Good thing she was there to lend God a hand or that poor bastard would be dead right now.

Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:30:21 AM EST
[#19]

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Protestants are just pissed because their prayers don't do shit.
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No, protestants are just happy catholics are no longer burning them at the stake for distributing Bibles.



 
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:34:25 AM EST
[#20]
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I heard the other one was a card trick.
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Lol right.....a miracle.  Got it.


Hey, I would be skeptical, too, if this wasn't her second one.







I heard the other one was a card trick.


Bitch took me for a hundred bucks and I never did find the red lady!!

Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:35:52 AM EST
[#21]
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Of course we do.  We ask other Christians that are still alive here on earth to pray with and for us.

But the Bible does not give even one single instance of suggesting that we ask dead people to pray for us.

(But you are free to so as you please.  I was only answering your seemingly sincere question.)

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And protestants don't ask each other to pray for them?  All of those "my family member is sick, please pray for us" threads must be from Catholics then.


Of course we do.  We ask other Christians that are still alive here on earth to pray with and for us.

But the Bible does not give even one single instance of suggesting that we ask dead people to pray for us.

(But you are free to so as you please.  I was only answering your seemingly sincere question.)




Christ said that those who believe in Christ are not dead but have eternal life.  Catholics take Christ at his word.  Scripture teaches us that those who die in Him are not dead and thus are still part of the Christian family.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:38:40 AM EST
[#22]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:40:31 AM EST
[#23]
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Again, cite.
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It is too bad they did away with the devil's advocate in canonizing saints.    Issues like these were aired in the past.  
 



Again, cite.



where do you think the term "devil's advocate" comes from?

Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:43:22 AM EST
[#24]
Lol stupid catholics
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:45:41 AM EST
[#25]
If one would believe "the dead know not anything" part of the Bible, then this issue would go away......ymmv



I believe we are to pray for each other and to God but only God can forgive sins. We can forgive each other but not their sins. ymmv
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:47:53 AM EST
[#26]
Protestant chiming in.

According to the Bible all Christians are "Saints", in other words, "Set Aside".  

There is no Pope to demand two miracles to prove Sainthood.

The Pope should read the Bible.

And NO, I am not bashing Catholics, nor claiming that Catholics are going to hell.

I fully trust that there are many Catholics whom are saved, just as I have faith that there are many
Protestants that are saved.  Many are not.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:48:43 AM EST
[#27]
Canonization, sainthood ..... where's all that stuff in the New Testament?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:51:41 AM EST
[#28]
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Lol stupid catholics
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hey! reported.












Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:53:46 AM EST
[#29]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:55:46 AM EST
[#30]
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That's rude and unnecessary.

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Lol stupid catholics


That's rude and unnecessary.




I disagree

You gotta be pretty stupid to follow that man
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 10:57:27 AM EST
[#31]
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I disagree

You gotta be pretty stupid to follow that man
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Lol stupid catholics


That's rude and unnecessary.




I disagree

You gotta be pretty stupid to follow that man


I think in this case your statement is the equivalent of saying "Arfcommers have to be pretty stupid to follow Obama".
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:01:41 AM EST
[#32]
Anti Catholic fate is wrong in the tread. Facts are meaningless. Take possibly the single best example of a living Saint (in our time) with a fully documented life-and still the haters hate
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:02:10 AM EST
[#33]

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So should the office of the POTUS.  FBHO.



ETA: If he wants respect for his position, he should stick to his position, and stay out of politics.
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No fucks given.....the idiot is coming here to the El Paso area, (Juarez  mx)to visit a prison then give a speech on immigration





Fuck him and his "approval"




You know, I'm not catholic, and I have my issues with the religion, but I think the position of Pope should garner at least a bit of respect.




So should the office of the POTUS.  FBHO.



ETA: If he wants respect for his position, he should stick to his position, and stay out of politics.




 
He is a head-of-state too
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:02:50 AM EST
[#34]
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Can you give me one scripture, just one will do, that tells us to pray to those that have died?

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Can you give me one scripture, just one will do, that tells us to pray to those that have died?





First of all, you get the concept incorrect. We don't pray to the saints, we ask them to pray for us, just as I might ask you to pray for me.  Scripture tells us that those who believe in Christ will never die so, spiritually, they are not dead but still live. Thus we are not even asking "the dead" to pray for us, but rather fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:  
John 11:25.  Christ said Himself that they are not dead, thus the premise of your question does not fit. They are not dead.

As for further verses:

    the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8).        


    "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).      


Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

In summary: scripture tells us that it is good to pray for each other, that the prayers of the righteous have weight, and that those who die in Christ live still, even after their earthly death.

Now, I understand that you may disagree with the interpretation of these scriptures and certainly do not begrudge you that at all as you always have struck me as a wise and thoughtful man.  However, it is incorrect to state that these beliefs have zero Biblical support.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:05:11 AM EST
[#35]
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I think in this case your statement is the equivalent of saying "Arfcommers have to be pretty stupid to follow Obama".
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Lol stupid catholics


That's rude and unnecessary.




I disagree

You gotta be pretty stupid to follow that man


I think in this case your statement is the equivalent of saying "Arfcommers have to be pretty stupid to follow Obama".


So you are saying no catholics follow the pope?
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:05:18 AM EST
[#36]
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You asked for cites, they've been provided.

There are far more critics of her than just the 3 your reference, but you've proven in this post and others that anything or anyone connected to the Catholic Church is infallible or at least have some sort of excuse for it if they can provide you a cite.
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Where do you guys think all that money went? Because she sure wasn't spending it on improving conditions, providing medical care, or lessening suffering.

How can you really defend someone that thinks that poor people suffering is a good thing?



Cite


Here you go...

Here's your cites, 23 to be exact.

Yeah, it's Wiki, but cites are noted along with several web links.


Did you look at the sources?

Hutchinson is used extensively, as is one study from the ultra-liberal Université de Montréal, Vijay Prashad, and a host of "criticisms" for accepting honors from people or political leaders later found to have been suspected of bad actions. In short, she was not politically savvy enough to know who did what in world politics, and some liberals have taken issue with her.

All of her work was in vain, I guess.

You should know better than this. The citation used is akin to attacking gun rights and using Chuck Schumer, Berkley, and some MSNBC broadcasts reports.


You asked for cites, they've been provided.

There are far more critics of her than just the 3 your reference, but you've proven in this post and others that anything or anyone connected to the Catholic Church is infallible or at least have some sort of excuse for it if they can provide you a cite.



You provided examples of weak, biased critics. Yes there are more than the sources I listed, but they are just as weak or feeble. The Catholic Church is NOT infallible, nor does it claim to be.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:06:30 AM EST
[#37]
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So you are saying no catholics follow the pope?
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Lol stupid catholics


That's rude and unnecessary.




I disagree

You gotta be pretty stupid to follow that man


I think in this case your statement is the equivalent of saying "Arfcommers have to be pretty stupid to follow Obama".


So you are saying no catholics follow the pope?



So you are saying no Arfcommers follow Obama?

Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:09:19 AM EST
[#38]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:09:47 AM EST
[#39]
Canon is a standard of measure. We consider our church laws as canon, as we use them to measure the morality of other laws and lifestyles.



A canonized Saint is a person whose life has been deemed worth to immitate-a life to measure ours against.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:10:08 AM EST
[#40]
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Of course we do.  We ask other Christians that are still alive here on earth to pray with and for us.

But the Bible does not give even one single instance of suggesting that we ask dead people to pray for us.

(But you are free to so as you please.  I was only answering your seemingly sincere question.)

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And protestants don't ask each other to pray for them?  All of those "my family member is sick, please pray for us" threads must be from Catholics then.


Of course we do.  We ask other Christians that are still alive here on earth to pray with and for us.

But the Bible does not give even one single instance of suggesting that we ask dead people to pray for us.

(But you are free to so as you please.  I was only answering your seemingly sincere question.)




If you care to take the time to read a long explanation, then here is a pretty good discussion on the false idea that Catholics are in err of "praying to the dead":

 In his book, Answers to Catholic Claims, A Discussion of Biblical Authority, James White attempts to make that discussion a moot point when he says there shouldn’t be any of this praying to dead folks to begin with:

The Bible strongly condemns communication with the dead. It does not matter if those who died were good or bad, saintly or evil, there is to be no communication between the living and the dead. The only communication with spirit beings that originates with man that is allowed in Scripture is that of prayer to God and He alone.

Biblical texts like Deut. 18:10-11 and Isaiah 19:3—each of which condemns necromancy—are employed to say “communication with the dead” is condemned absolutely.

Actually, what is being condemned in these texts from Deuteronomy and Isaiah is conjuring up the dead through wizards and mediums, not praying to saints. The Church has always condemned this. Mediums attempt to conjure up spirits and manipulate the spiritual realm at will. This is categorically different from Christians asking for the intercession of their brothers and sisters in Christ. We do not “conjure up” or manipulate anything or anyone. True prayer—whether to God or the angels and saints—changes the pray-er, not the pray-ee.

If one says recklessly as Mr. White said, “… there is to be no communication between the living and the dead,” where does this leave Jesus? He is clearly guilty according to Luke 9:29-31:

And as [Jesus] was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Elijah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem.

According to Deuteronomy 34:5, Moses was dead. And yet Jesus was communicating with him and Elijah about the most important event in human history—the redemption. Obviously, Jesus does not agree with Mr. White.

FIRST CONTACT

There is another point to White’s argument that requires a deeper level of response. Notice, he said, “The only communication with spirit beings that originates with man that is allowed in Scripture is that of prayer to God and He alone.” This point taken alone would not exclude communicating with the dead in any context. It would only exclude such communication if contact originates from the earth dweller.

In one sense, it seems Mr. White, as well as our Protestant friends he represents by his statement, is stuck in an Old Testament mindset. It is true that we do not see Old Covenant faithful initiating prayer to the dearly departed, but this is to be expected because the faithful dead before Christ and the beatific vision afforded by him would not have had the power to either hear or respond to those prayers. Moreover, the Old Covenant People of God did not have the developed understanding of the after-life that only came with the Revelation of Christ.

Jesus Christ introduces a radical development the Old Covenant saints could not have imagined when he clearly initiates the communication with the faithful departed unlike anything we saw in the Old Testament. I say "clearly" because even Protestant Apologist Eric Svendsen seems to see it, though I'm not sure how cognizant he was of the rammifications of this statement he made about the Transfiguration in his book, Evangelical Answers:

The transfiguration was an apocalyptic event choreographed directly by the Son of God to give the apostles a glimpse of his eschatological glory…

If Jesus “choreographed” it, then he initiated it. Some may say, “Well, he's God, so he can do that.” Yes, he is. But he is also fully man and we are called to imitate him. If Jesus initiated communication with the dead, there is no reason to believe followers of Jesus cannot do the same. This is precisely what we mean as Catholics when we say we "pray to the saints."

THE BIBLE SAYS SO

The New Testament presents to us very plain examples of the faithful on earth initiating communication with the saints in heaven. First, we have Hebrews 11-12. Chapter 11 gives us what I call the “hall of faith” wherein the lives of many of the Old Testament saints are recounted. Then, the inspired author encourages these to whom he referred earlier as a people who were being persecuted for their faith (10:32-35), to consider that they are “surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses,” encouraging them to "run the race" of faith set before them. Then, beginning in 12:18, he encourages these New Covenant faithful by reminding them that their covenant—the New Covenant—is far superior to the Old:  

For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire … darkness … gloom … and the sound of a trumpet, and a voice whose words made the hearers entreat that no further messages be spoken to them…

But you have come to… the city of the living God… and to innumerable angels… and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven… and to… God… and to the spirits of just men made perfect… and to Jesus…

Notice, in the Old Covenant the faithful approached God alone and with trepidation. But in the New Covenant, the faithful have experienced a radical change for the better. “But you have come to … and to … and to … and to.”  In the same way we can initiate prayer and in so doing “come to” God and Jesus, we can also “come to” the angels and “the spirits of just men made perfect.” Those would be the saints in heaven. In the fellowship of the saints, we have the aid and encouragement of the whole family of God.

The Book of Revelation gives us an even better description of this communication between heaven and earth:

The twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints … the elders fell down and worshipped (5:8-14).

These “elders” are offering the prayers of the faithful symbolized by incense filtering upward from the earth to heaven. And because they are seen receiving these prayers, we can reasonably conclude they were both directed to these saints in heaven and that they were initiated by the faithful living on earth. We also see this same phenomenon being performed by the angels in Revelation 8:3-4:

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

The bottom line is this: Both the faithful on earth and our brothers and sisters in heaven (and let’s not forget our “cousins,” the angels) are all acting just as Catholics would expect. Believers on earth are initiating prayers which the saints and angels in heaven are receiving. Is this the necromancy condemned in Deuteronomy and Isaiah? Absolutely not! This is New Testament Christianity.  
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:12:06 AM EST
[#41]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:12:23 AM EST
[#42]
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And, as I knew, you could not find even one Scripture that says, "Ask the dead saints to pray for your needs."

I understand your position and honestly am not trying to change your mind, as I know that is not very likely.

I was just answering an honest question that you had asked above.

You and your family have a wonderful Christmas season.

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Merry Christmas to you too.  



However, it's a bit of a strawman question because we do not "Ask the dead saints to pray for your needs"--we ask fellow Christians, alive in Christ as He told us they are, to pray for us, just as I ask you to pray for me.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:14:46 AM EST
[#43]
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There are happy protestants?  
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Protestants are just pissed because their prayers don't do shit.

No, protestants are just happy catholics are no longer burning them at the stake for distributing Bibles.
 
There are happy protestants?  


There COULD be if they wanted to be.

Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:18:10 AM EST
[#44]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:21:40 AM EST
[#45]
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And, as I knew, you could not find even one Scripture that says, "Ask the dead saints to pray for your needs."

I understand your position and honestly am not trying to change your mind, as I know that is not very likely.

I was just answering an honest question that you had asked above.

You and your family have a wonderful Christmas season.

View Quote



You are stuck on an inherently false premise. Because there is no explicit phrase that specifically says, "Ask the dead Saints for your needs", though much proof has been shown that Christ indeed called upon us to do so, you are dismissing it. This is yet another example of the rigidity and limitations of Sola Scriptura. Taking your logic further, there can be no "Christians", "Bible", or  "Holy Trinity" as none of these are mentioned in the Bible. Moreover, there can be no Baptist Church, no Lutheran Church, etc.

Of course this is not the case. I am merely pointing out the fallacy of your position. Again, you are free to worship as you see fit, and I am grateful for any brother in Christ.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:21:41 AM EST
[#46]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:22:17 AM EST
[#47]
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And protestants don't ask each other to pray for them?  All of those "my family member is sick, please pray for us" threads must be from Catholics then.
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Protestants are just pissed because their prayers don't do shit.


Nope, the results are orders of magnitude different, positive, and real, and there are no intermediate approvers, conduits, or intercessories.  Protestant prayer is amazing like that.






There is none in Catholicism either.


Intercessory prayer is practiced by Catholics.




And protestants don't ask each other to pray for them?  All of those "my family member is sick, please pray for us" threads must be from Catholics then.


Key difference. Protestants sometimes ask the living to pray for them, Catholics are asking the DEAD to pray for them, and more specifically to intercede with God on their behalf.
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:25:46 AM EST
[#48]
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:27:07 AM EST
[#49]
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Non Catholics spend a lot of time worrying about what Catholics get up to
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Protestants are just pissed because their prayers don't do shit.


Non Catholics spend a lot of time worrying about what Catholics get up to


True, I think they just jelly
Link Posted: 12/19/2015 11:29:00 AM EST
[#50]
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Thanks, I've read it before.

I am reminded of my old Catholic friend Sgtar15 from years ago.  He and I had these conversations many times over the years.

He once told me that he often went to the cemetery and sat by his mother's grave and prayed to her and asked her to pray for him.  He once asked me if we Protestants did that.  I told him definitely not.

He was amazed and could hardly believe me.  He continued to ask me about it and was amazed to find that no Protestant denomination prayed to any dead saint for help.

It is one of those "big differences" between Catholics and Protestants.  One so big that Catholics are often amazed to find out how different we are on this subject.

And understand that I and most Protestants also believe that this belief will not "send any Catholic to Hell".  We just agree to disagree about this doctrine.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

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If you care to take the time to read a long explanation, then here is a pretty good discussion on the false idea that Catholics are in err of "praying to the dead":



Thanks, I've read it before.

I am reminded of my old Catholic friend Sgtar15 from years ago.  He and I had these conversations many times over the years.

He once told me that he often went to the cemetery and sat by his mother's grave and prayed to her and asked her to pray for him.  He once asked me if we Protestants did that.  I told him definitely not.

He was amazed and could hardly believe me.  He continued to ask me about it and was amazed to find that no Protestant denomination prayed to any dead saint for help.

It is one of those "big differences" between Catholics and Protestants.  One so big that Catholics are often amazed to find out how different we are on this subject.

And understand that I and most Protestants also believe that this belief will not "send any Catholic to Hell".  We just agree to disagree about this doctrine.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.




Some Anglican, Methodists, and older orders of Lutherans still pray to the Saints.
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