[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Revolver challenge (Page 2 of 3)
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My EDC CCW is a S&W 342. No reloads. No tourniquet. I don’t care if the hive disapproves. It’s an individual choice to weigh the pros and cons of concealability, weight, bulk etc. I choose to carry an extremely light weight revolver that holds 5 rounds. If I was expecting trouble, (if I were a bodyguard or a bouncer, for example) I’d be packing a Glock and a couple of reloads. But I’m not going outside the green zone at night so I’m not going to overheat just to keep my CCW covered. Flame all you want. Nothing anyone can say will alter my choice. |
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Quoted: Five shot 642 with two speed strips here. I’m still breathing as well. Eight shot flash bang .357 with a 1 7/8” barrel. 22.6 oz Attached File |
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Quoted: It's his use of pronouns that is possibly incorrect. he refers to Ripley. his refers to Hendrix. Given the previously posted account also claimed the officer was shot w/ an empty gun, I'll wait for more confirmation of this Black Swan event. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That makes no sense. How does an off-duty cop get shot with an empty revolver? Grok's making that shit up. Ya, I saw that too. Here’s the article from Police Magazine https://www.policemag.com/articles/shots-fired-palm-desert-california-03301996 Yeah, also bullshit - they're claiming he was shot w/ an empty revolver. I'm going to say your incident has no credibility whatsoever, and Dean Scoville should be fired for lack of editorial skills. As he dropped his spent revolver to the asphalt, Hendrix could only hope that Ripley might still retain some vestige of humanity and show some mercy. He didn't. Playing Dead Thirty feet away and closing, Ripley continued to fire at Hendrix. The officer could actually see the rounds exiting Ripley's firearm, peppering the asphalt around him. In a bid to protect vital body parts, Hendrix curled up into a fetal position wrapping his arms around his head. Another bullet tore into him, entering his left inner thigh before traversing through his pelvic girdle and out his left hip. Still another round shattered his right cheek. Suddenly, Ripley was right on top of him. Hendrix began to beg and plead with Ripley to please stop shooting him. He told the man that he could go. There was no filter, no false macho bullshit, just a desperate effort to say and do anything that might mitigate his fate. He started to cry, and told Ripley that he wouldn't tell on him. He told him he had a family. He told him that it hurt-all in a desperate hope that some part of the man's humanity might assert itself. Ripley wasn't having any of it. When he did stop firing, it was only to walk over and pick up the officer's handgun off the ground. Then he bent over Hendrix with his own firearm and put it to Hendrix's head. Realizing the cold-blooded bastard was going to execute him, Hendrix raised his arm to cover his face just as Ripley fired. The bullet tore into Hendrix's right elbow and lodged therein. While it could have been written more clearly, "Ripley wasn't having any of it. When he did stop firing, it was only to walk over and pick up the officer's handgun off the ground. Then he bent over Hendrix with his own firearm and put it to Hendrix's head." is still pretty obvious from those sentences that the officer's gun was empty, the bad guy walked over and picked it up then used his own gun to shoot the officer again. The author's sentence structure as well as his use of the officer's thoughts in the narrative makes it confusing. It's his use of pronouns that is possibly incorrect. he refers to Ripley. his refers to Hendrix. Given the previously posted account also claimed the officer was shot w/ an empty gun, I'll wait for more confirmation of this Black Swan event. Maybe he thought it was an empty gun. Halyna Hutchins was killed with an "empty" gun. A high school friend of mine shot himself in the head with am "empty" gun. Or maybe he was shot while holding an empty gun, because he fired all of his ammo, and they should have said "He had an empty gun and was shot". |
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Quoted: How do you like the Max 9? Never handled one but really like my LC9S, Max seems like essentially the same gun with more capacity. @shack357 I like my shield, I shoot very well with it and it was the first gun that I carried consistently after years. Started with a stainless 5 shot, went to a G27 and finally the shield. I was looking at higher capacity for a while Shield plus, 43x, Hellcat, P365, Canik Mete9 even kept picking up and handling Taurus offerings. I'm a firm believer that there are plenty of dependable/lower cost guns. That knocked of the Shield plus, hellcat, 43x and p365. I really like the feel of the small Taurus carry guns but despite me wanting them to succeed, they just seem to fail everytime and I was not going to take a chance on one. Ruger finally put out the lower cost model of the Max and I jumped on it. Got the sku that came with the green dot sight and standard irons for $300. I love it. It feels solid and shoots well. It really is about the same size as my current 7 shot shield. Downside was the manual safety which I did not want but turns out you can easily remove the safety lever. I've been up in the air if I want to keep it or take it off. I also have not mounted the optic and have no plans to. I wish I had bought the non optic sku at this point. I may mount it at some point and try carrying it to see whether it is too cumbersome. Other downside, came with one mag so I had to buy a two pack of mags. After I got the Max they came out with a Shield plus package that was $400 for the pistol, 6 mags and range bag. I may have considered that if I were still looking but already had the Max at that point. Solid thumbs up on the Max. Do recommend. |
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I see the appeal of a light weight 5 shot. Being able to carry something so light that you can drop it in your jogging shorts is handy. The gun you do carry is better than the gun you left at home because it was too heavy or uncomfortable. I would not feel unarmed if I had one. Good training a focus are extremely important at the moment of need as shown in the my first post. The escort/bouncer in that story managed to get a head shot with his first round which took on of the first two attackers out and left him to be able to deal with the one remaining. Despite having picked up a Max 9 I still carry Kahr PM9 most of the time because it is small enough to drop in my front pocket. If I'm going somewhere that I think is a higher value soft target like a mall then I will go for the Max. If I had an airweigt 5 shot I probably would find myself using that too from time to time. |
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Quoted: @shack357 I like my shield, I shoot very well with it and it was the first gun that I carried consistently after years. Started with a stainless 5 shot, went to a G27 and finally the shield. I was looking at higher capacity for a while Shield plus, 43x, Hellcat, P365, Canik Mete9 even kept picking up and handling Taurus offerings. I'm a firm believer that there are plenty of dependable/lower cost guns. That knocked of the Shield plus, hellcat, 43x and p365. I really like the feel of the small Taurus carry guns but despite me wanting them to succeed, they just seem to fail everytime and I was not going to take a chance on one. Ruger finally put out the lower cost model of the Max and I jumped on it. Got the sku that came with the green dot sight and standard irons for $300. I love it. It feels solid and shoots well. It really is about the same size as my current 7 shot shield. Downside was the manual safety which I did not want but turns out you can easily remove the safety lever. I've been up in the air if I want to keep it or take it off. I also have not mounted the optic and have no plans to. I wish I had bought the non optic sku at this point. I may mount it at some point and try carrying it to see whether it is too cumbersome. Other downside, came with one mag so I had to buy a two pack of mags. After I got the Max they came out with a Shield plus package that was $400 for the pistol, 6 mags and range bag. I may have considered that if I were still looking but already had the Max at that point. Solid thumbs up on the Max. Do recommend. Quoted: Quoted: How do you like the Max 9? Never handled one but really like my LC9S, Max seems like essentially the same gun with more capacity. @shack357 I like my shield, I shoot very well with it and it was the first gun that I carried consistently after years. Started with a stainless 5 shot, went to a G27 and finally the shield. I was looking at higher capacity for a while Shield plus, 43x, Hellcat, P365, Canik Mete9 even kept picking up and handling Taurus offerings. I'm a firm believer that there are plenty of dependable/lower cost guns. That knocked of the Shield plus, hellcat, 43x and p365. I really like the feel of the small Taurus carry guns but despite me wanting them to succeed, they just seem to fail everytime and I was not going to take a chance on one. Ruger finally put out the lower cost model of the Max and I jumped on it. Got the sku that came with the green dot sight and standard irons for $300. I love it. It feels solid and shoots well. It really is about the same size as my current 7 shot shield. Downside was the manual safety which I did not want but turns out you can easily remove the safety lever. I've been up in the air if I want to keep it or take it off. I also have not mounted the optic and have no plans to. I wish I had bought the non optic sku at this point. I may mount it at some point and try carrying it to see whether it is too cumbersome. Other downside, came with one mag so I had to buy a two pack of mags. After I got the Max they came out with a Shield plus package that was $400 for the pistol, 6 mags and range bag. I may have considered that if I were still looking but already had the Max at that point. Solid thumbs up on the Max. Do recommend. Thanks. Good to know! |
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Quoted: I'm also not really sure what the point of excluding people who carry a gun professionally is. Just because I'm a civilian doesn't mean that a Springfield 1903 is just as good as an AR15 for home defense, even though it's statistically very unlikely that I'd have to use either. It's like arguing that having money saved for an emergency is a scam because I can survive living paycheck to paycheck. Use whatever you want but not everything is just as good. I would bet you have no idea what the term “duty to act” is, and how or why it pertains to the question posed by the OP. |
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Quoted: Finding an accurate news report about anything is hard enough. An event involving guns; it is impossible. In bullseye it is extremely rare to see someone shoot a better score with revolver than 45. Revolver ergonomics are jacked, double action trigger is much more difficult, and there is no action to mitigate recoil energy. Recoil with 148 wadcutters. 
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Quoted: Most handgun shooters believe “SHTF” will be no different than shooting slow-fire bullseyes with their RDS. In reality, they’ll likely not even see their RDS, let alone sight with it when faced with imminent death, and the threat confronting them isn’t a stationary paper/cardboard /steel target. One guy here even posted that he was immune from fear because he “trained through it”. (Presumably at the shooting matches he competed in, and often posted about.) Quoted: Quoted: Having watched decades of shooting footage of all kinds, the only constant I really ever saw is "it wasn't gonna happen like they expected it to happen”. I've seen the bag guys win because the good guys were still doing "I don't believe this is happening." Even happens to LEOs from time to time. Most handgun shooters believe “SHTF” will be no different than shooting slow-fire bullseyes with their RDS. In reality, they’ll likely not even see their RDS, let alone sight with it when faced with imminent death, and the threat confronting them isn’t a stationary paper/cardboard /steel target. One guy here even posted that he was immune from fear because he “trained through it”. (Presumably at the shooting matches he competed in, and often posted about.) lol The entire premise of combat training is that you practice something A LOT, and then that thing becomes an instinctive reaction to the appropriate stimulus. There are things I practiced in karate as a kid that still show up even though I haven't practiced those things in decades. When Iranian rockets started falling into my FOB in Iraq, I didn't think about it, process it, or follow a checklist. I did what I was repeatedly trained to do, sometimes before the first impact. The same absolutely applies to shooting. Presentation drills are one of the most critical drills a guy can work on. A guy who keeps up with that, doing thousands of reps year after year, is going to have that instinct built in. As for how something is going to go in the real world, it depends. You don't get to choose the distance, the lighting conditions, or target exposure. In a stick-up situation against a target up close at 6 feet or whatever, sure, the sights won't matter. Hope you practice shooting from retention. If you're dealing with an obscured target or a target at distance in something like a mass shooting or an armed robbery gone wrong in public, the sights can become critical, and something like the zero contrast fixed trench sights on a standard model J-frame can become a huge liability. Something as simple as painting the front sight of a standard J-frame or getting one of the Ultimate Carry models with real sights can make a meaningful difference in some situations. |
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Quoted: That makes no sense. How does an off-duty cop get shot with an empty revolver? Grok's making that shit up. That and the part about “severing his femoral artery”. That shit never happened obviously, dude would’ve never made it into custody much less survived after being incarcerated. He would’ve died there on the pavement. |
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Even if you had a magical J frame, that held 15 or 20 rounds but was otherwise the exact same size and weight as the familiar five shot 38 Special J frame, it would still be inferior to most semi autos. The high bore axis and grip angle exaggerate recoil, the lack of a semi automatic mechanical action does nothing to mitigate recoil versus a semi auto, the tiny little snag free sites are more difficult to acquire, and the trigger pull is inferior on orders of magnitude. I have an air weight J framing 38 Special because it was given to me for free by a client. I have a Ruger LCR in 38 Special, again because it was given to me by a client. I have a Taurus six shot snub nose J frame knock off that I purchased when I inherited about 15,000 rounds of 38 Special it had nothing to shoot it through, and of course I have a 1979 colt python because a man ain’t a man if he ain’t got no python. I carry a P365XL with a red dot site, or a P365X with irons. Sometimes I will stick one of the revolvers in my pocket to run out and get the mail. |
| Let’s try to keep this one on track. It’s not about revolver versus semi or what you carry. I am trying to find real world examples of an ordinary citizen, being injured or killed after shooting his five or six shot wheel gun dry. So far one person has made a good faith attempt, though that was an off duty cop acting in a law-enforcement role |
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Quoted: Yeah, also bullshit - they're claiming he was shot w/ an empty revolver. I'm going to say your incident has no credibility whatsoever, and Dean Scoville should be fired for lack of editorial skills. No it's not claiming that Ripley shot Hendrix with Hendrix's empty revolver. Read it again. It's claiming that Ripley picked up Hendrix's empty revolver and then Ripley shot Hendrix with Ripley's Glock 17. |
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Quoted: Most handgun shooters believe “SHTF” will be no different than shooting slow-fire bullseyes with their RDS. In reality, they’ll likely not even see their RDS, let alone sight with it when faced with imminent death, and the threat confronting them isn’t a stationary paper/cardboard /steel target. One guy here even posted that he was immune from fear because he “trained through it”. (Presumably at the shooting matches he competed in, and often posted about.) You have no idea what you’re talking about. Training builds subconscious skill. Which incudes aiming using the dot, including under duress. That’s why it’s called “subconscious” skill. It is performed without thought, in any circumstance. |
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Quoted: I guess people with brains only have gun fights at stand off distance and never get into entangled encounters. I think people with brains just don’t get into gunfights period  (There are solutions for what you list for the very remote chance someone needs to actually use their firearm, but please continue to use unlikely edge cases to support using the inferior weapon) |
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Quoted: Eight shot flash bang .357 with a 1 7/8” barrel. 22.6 oz https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/485085/IMG_0087_jpeg-3732173.JPG Please, please, please show a target you shot with that... Even better, 8 shots at speed... Any distance. |
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Quoted: I think people with brains just don’t get into gunfights period (There are solutions for what you list for the very remote chance someone needs to actually use their firearm, but please continue to use unlikely edge cases to support using the inferior weapon) Quoted: Quoted: I guess people with brains only have gun fights at stand off distance and never get into entangled encounters. I think people with brains just don’t get into gunfights period (There are solutions for what you list for the very remote chance someone needs to actually use their firearm, but please continue to use unlikely edge cases to support using the inferior weapon) I think extreme close quarters/entangled fights are the rule rather than the exception when it comes to street crime. I took a class with Craig Douglas a few years ago, and it was eye opening. |
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Quoted: You might want to talk to Tom Givens. He's had +/-65 students get into gunfights. Several of those went more than 6 rounds, so presumably they would have fared poorly had they not had an auto with higher capacity. I have trained with Tom. Is he still teaching? |
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Quoted: Most of what we worry about in self defense never occurs. I've only ever met one person in real life who had to shoot a gun in self defense in the US. I know it happens a lot, but a lot of it can be easily avoided by choosing your locations and times for all aspects of life carefully. Sometimes the crime comes to you. That's why you carry. But if you don't go to where and when the crime already is, you have done far more to protect yourself than any weapon ever will. |
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Quoted: Even if you had a magical J frame, that held 15 or 20 rounds but was otherwise the exact same size and weight as the familiar five shot 38 Special J frame, it would still be inferior to most semi autos. The high bore axis and grip angle exaggerate recoil, the lack of a semi automatic mechanical action does nothing to mitigate recoil versus a semi auto, the tiny little snag free sites are more difficult to acquire, and the trigger pull is inferior on orders of magnitude. I have an air weight J framing 38 Special because it was given to me for free by a client. I have a Ruger LCR in 38 Special, again because it was given to me by a client. I have a Taurus six shot snub nose J frame knock off that I purchased when I inherited about 15,000 rounds of 38 Special it had nothing to shoot it through, and of course I have a 1979 colt python because a man ain’t a man if he ain’t got no python. I carry a P365XL with a red dot site, or a P365X with irons. Sometimes I will stick one of the revolvers in my pocket to run out and get the mail. Where can one get such clients? |
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Quoted: No it's not claiming that Ripley shot Hendrix with Hendrix's empty revolver. Read it again. It's claiming that Ripley picked up Hendrix's empty revolver and then Ripley shot Hendrix with Ripley's Glock 17. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah, also bullshit - they're claiming he was shot w/ an empty revolver. I'm going to say your incident has no credibility whatsoever, and Dean Scoville should be fired for lack of editorial skills. No it's not claiming that Ripley shot Hendrix with Hendrix's empty revolver. Read it again. It's claiming that Ripley picked up Hendrix's empty revolver and then Ripley shot Hendrix with Ripley's Glock 17. I would agree that's what Dean Scoville means. That's not what he wrote. It also has an off-duty police officer carrying his snub nose revolver in his wife's purse. I think that's taking off-body carry a bit far. |
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Quoted: That and the part about “severing his femoral artery”. That shit never happened obviously, dude would’ve never made it into custody much less survived after being incarcerated. He would’ve died there on the pavement. You would be wrong, very wrong. People have survived all sorts of injuries that, statistically, should have killed them (I fell close to 50' and broke my arm and nose, statistically I should have died). While I question whether the femoral artery was actually severed or just hit, the body has the ability to contract the muscles around the site and retract the vessel into the muscle group (hemostasis- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545263/). There's a member here who got into a gunfight with some would-be robbers. IIRC, he used his handgun then his wife tossed him an AR pistol and he emptied most of that as well. He posted pictures of the aftermath in the thread. |
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Quoted: You would be wrong, very wrong. People have survived all sorts of injuries that, statistically, should have killed them (I fell close to 50' and broke my arm and nose, statistically I should have died). Quoted: Quoted: That and the part about “severing his femoral artery”. That shit never happened obviously, dude would’ve never made it into custody much less survived after being incarcerated. He would’ve died there on the pavement. You would be wrong, very wrong. People have survived all sorts of injuries that, statistically, should have killed them (I fell close to 50' and broke my arm and nose, statistically I should have died). 1963. Rodney Fox shouldn't have made it back to the boat. Then he shouldn't have made it to shore. Should have died in the ambulance then should have died on the operating table. Some 500 stitches later, he's alive today. But sometimes somebody gets punched just one time with a bare fist and dies before he hits the ground too. The human body does weird things. |
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Quoted: While it could have been written more clearly, "Ripley wasn't having any of it. When he did stop firing, it was only to walk over and pick up the officer's handgun off the ground. Then he bent over Hendrix with his own firearm and put it to Hendrix's head." is still pretty obvious from those sentences that the officer's gun was empty, the bad guy walked over and picked it up then used his own gun to shoot the officer again. The author's sentence structure as well as his use of the officer's thoughts in the narrative makes it confusing. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That makes no sense. How does an off-duty cop get shot with an empty revolver? Grok's making that shit up. Ya, I saw that too. Here’s the article from Police Magazine https://www.policemag.com/articles/shots-fired-palm-desert-california-03301996 Yeah, also bullshit - they're claiming he was shot w/ an empty revolver. I'm going to say your incident has no credibility whatsoever, and Dean Scoville should be fired for lack of editorial skills. As he dropped his spent revolver to the asphalt, Hendrix could only hope that Ripley might still retain some vestige of humanity and show some mercy. He didn't. Playing Dead Thirty feet away and closing, Ripley continued to fire at Hendrix. The officer could actually see the rounds exiting Ripley's firearm, peppering the asphalt around him. In a bid to protect vital body parts, Hendrix curled up into a fetal position wrapping his arms around his head. Another bullet tore into him, entering his left inner thigh before traversing through his pelvic girdle and out his left hip. Still another round shattered his right cheek. Suddenly, Ripley was right on top of him. Hendrix began to beg and plead with Ripley to please stop shooting him. He told the man that he could go. There was no filter, no false macho bullshit, just a desperate effort to say and do anything that might mitigate his fate. He started to cry, and told Ripley that he wouldn't tell on him. He told him he had a family. He told him that it hurt-all in a desperate hope that some part of the man's humanity might assert itself. Ripley wasn't having any of it. When he did stop firing, it was only to walk over and pick up the officer's handgun off the ground. Then he bent over Hendrix with his own firearm and put it to Hendrix's head. Realizing the cold-blooded bastard was going to execute him, Hendrix raised his arm to cover his face just as Ripley fired. The bullet tore into Hendrix's right elbow and lodged therein. While it could have been written more clearly, "Ripley wasn't having any of it. When he did stop firing, it was only to walk over and pick up the officer's handgun off the ground. Then he bent over Hendrix with his own firearm and put it to Hendrix's head." is still pretty obvious from those sentences that the officer's gun was empty, the bad guy walked over and picked it up then used his own gun to shoot the officer again. The author's sentence structure as well as his use of the officer's thoughts in the narrative makes it confusing. It always reads like bad pulp magazine writing when I find a story linked to there. Some cop pumps 50 rounds into a guy and he still doesn't go down. No attribution, no link to.the original story, but it certainly makes you feel good to read. 
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Quoted: 1963. Rodney Fox shouldn't have made it back to the boat. Then he shouldn't have made it to shore. Should have died in the ambulance then should have died on the operating table. Some 500 stitches later, he's alive today. But sometimes somebody gets punched just one time with a bare fist and dies before he hits the ground too. The human body does weird things. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That and the part about “severing his femoral artery”. That shit never happened obviously, dude would’ve never made it into custody much less survived after being incarcerated. He would’ve died there on the pavement. You would be wrong, very wrong. People have survived all sorts of injuries that, statistically, should have killed them (I fell close to 50' and broke my arm and nose, statistically I should have died). 1963. Rodney Fox shouldn't have made it back to the boat. Then he shouldn't have made it to shore. Should have died in the ambulance then should have died on the operating table. Some 500 stitches later, he's alive today. But sometimes somebody gets punched just one time with a bare fist and dies before he hits the ground too. The human body does weird things. This in spades. Expect the unexpected and never get complacent. Over the years I've seen some crazy stuff and I'm sure everyone who's worked any of the emergencies services or ERs can tell stories as well. Stuff happens. 
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Quoted: Let’s try to keep this one on track. It’s not about revolver versus semi or what you carry. I am trying to find real world examples of an ordinary citizen, being injured or killed after shooting his five or six shot wheel gun dry. So far one person has made a good faith attempt, though that was an off duty cop acting in a law-enforcement role @StevenH Read my first post. I think I tried to address your point even though there was no revolver involved. Your basic premise applies to low capacity handguns in general whether they are revolvers or semi autos though most people would probably be able to reload a magazine faster than a revolver. Escort facing multiple bad guys with a lower capacity gun. Worked out for him fortunately but he got lucky too. Overall I think there is a more brazen attitude of these yutes these days. Where, in the past, they might have turned and run if the victim produced a handgun, many today feel emboldened enough to stay and shoot it out. Why? Who knows. I see these videos all the time on the street. These yutes today are rocking AR pistols and glocks with drum mags, I think it makes them feel invincible. Not to mention they are usually in a pack so there are more than one shooting back. 38s and 357s are pretty equal in stopping power out of short barrels so why deny yourself the benefits of the extra rounds and faster reloads. I have a 45 shield that I bought at the same time I bought the 9mm shield for off duty. I had planned to eventually switch to the 45 after retirement but soon the higher capacity micro 9s started coming out so that plan never happened. I don't know if actual number of rounds in gun fights has actually gone up over what it was 20 years ago but it sure seems like it has. |
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Quoted: There was an Old man who used a revolver from some crazy distance to take down a guy with an AR in a trailer park in Texas many years ago. I am still looking for the article. https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/citizen-shoots-trailer-park-gunman-saves-texas-officer-STLy7HQgxkb4h2um/ https://www.khou.com/article/news/armed-good-samaritan-praised-for-shooting-suspect-in-trailer-park-standoff/285-339680509 |
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Carry both. |
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Quoted: I would bet you have no idea what the term “duty to act” is, and how or why it pertains to the question posed by the OP. Quoted: Quoted: I'm also not really sure what the point of excluding people who carry a gun professionally is. Just because I'm a civilian doesn't mean that a Springfield 1903 is just as good as an AR15 for home defense, even though it's statistically very unlikely that I'd have to use either. It's like arguing that having money saved for an emergency is a scam because I can survive living paycheck to paycheck. Use whatever you want but not everything is just as good. I would bet you have no idea what the term “duty to act” is, and how or why it pertains to the question posed by the OP. Do you have an actual argument or disagreement with what I said, or are you just trying to put me down with snark? |
| Lance Thomas ran through multiple guns in one of his shoot outs. From the archives |
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Quoted: @StevenH Read my first post. I think I tried to address your point even though there was no revolver involved. Your basic premise applies to low capacity handguns in general whether they are revolvers or semi autos though most people would probably be able to reload a magazine faster than a revolver. Escort facing multiple bad guys with a lower capacity gun. Worked out for him fortunately but he got lucky too. Overall I think there is a more brazen attitude of these yutes these days. Where, in the past, they might have turned and run if the victim produced a handgun, many today feel emboldened enough to stay and shoot it out. Why? Who knows. I see these videos all the time on the street. These yutes today are rocking AR pistols and glocks with drum mags, I think it makes them feel invincible. Not to mention they are usually in a pack so there are more than one shooting back. 38s and 357s are pretty equal in stopping power out of short barrels so why deny yourself the benefits of the extra rounds and faster reloads. I have a 45 shield that I bought at the same time I bought the 9mm shield for off duty. I had planned to eventually switch to the 45 after retirement but soon the higher capacity micro 9s started coming out so that plan never happened. I don't know if actual number of rounds in gun fights has actually gone up over what it was 20 years ago but it sure seems like it has. Quoted: Quoted: Let’s try to keep this one on track. It’s not about revolver versus semi or what you carry. I am trying to find real world examples of an ordinary citizen, being injured or killed after shooting his five or six shot wheel gun dry. So far one person has made a good faith attempt, though that was an off duty cop acting in a law-enforcement role @StevenH Read my first post. I think I tried to address your point even though there was no revolver involved. Your basic premise applies to low capacity handguns in general whether they are revolvers or semi autos though most people would probably be able to reload a magazine faster than a revolver. Escort facing multiple bad guys with a lower capacity gun. Worked out for him fortunately but he got lucky too. Overall I think there is a more brazen attitude of these yutes these days. Where, in the past, they might have turned and run if the victim produced a handgun, many today feel emboldened enough to stay and shoot it out. Why? Who knows. I see these videos all the time on the street. These yutes today are rocking AR pistols and glocks with drum mags, I think it makes them feel invincible. Not to mention they are usually in a pack so there are more than one shooting back. 38s and 357s are pretty equal in stopping power out of short barrels so why deny yourself the benefits of the extra rounds and faster reloads. I have a 45 shield that I bought at the same time I bought the 9mm shield for off duty. I had planned to eventually switch to the 45 after retirement but soon the higher capacity micro 9s started coming out so that plan never happened. I don't know if actual number of rounds in gun fights has actually gone up over what it was 20 years ago but it sure seems like it has. Improved emergency room care may have had some effect. .357 can be counted on to expand & penetrate from a 2" .357 snub, .38 Special cannot. |
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Quoted: Lance Thomas ran through multiple guns in one of his shoot outs. From the archives I thought about that guy but OP said he didn't count because he was acting as a watchman of sorts for his business |
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Quoted: Eight shot flash bang .357 with a 1 7/8” barrel. 22.6 oz https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/485085/IMG_0087_jpeg-3732173.JPG That looks awesome. We really need a like button for this place. |
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Quoted: Do you have an actual argument or disagreement with what I said, or are you just trying to put me down with snark? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm also not really sure what the point of excluding people who carry a gun professionally is. Just because I'm a civilian doesn't mean that a Springfield 1903 is just as good as an AR15 for home defense, even though it's statistically very unlikely that I'd have to use either. It's like arguing that having money saved for an emergency is a scam because I can survive living paycheck to paycheck. Use whatever you want but not everything is just as good. I would bet you have no idea what the term “duty to act” is, and how or why it pertains to the question posed by the OP. Do you have an actual argument or disagreement with what I said, or are you just trying to put me down with snark? Really wasn’t trying to put you down. But my argument, which I assume is what the OP would make is that by having a duty to act you’re really not afforded the ability to just run away. People who have a duty to act like police officers and security guards can find themselves in very different scenarios than ordinary citizens. If a convenience store is being robbed it would not be acceptable for the security guard to run out the back door like I can do. So thus he is forced into confrontations, which someone who does not have a duty to act can merely evade the situation. Basically, the professional hired guns are supposed to push forward in the confrontation. They interject themselves into the situation because of that duty to act. Their definition of a win is apprehending the criminal or preventing a crime, whereas my definition of a win in a confrontation is simply surviving. |
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Quoted: Eight shot flash bang .357 with a 1 7/8” barrel. 22.6 oz https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/485085/IMG_0087_jpeg-3732173.JPG I need to get one of these. Do they make boot grips for those? A pocket carry 8 shot 357 sounds pretty cool. |
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Quoted: Really wasn’t trying to put you down. But my argument, which I assume is what the OP would make is that by having a duty to act you’re really not afforded the ability to just run away. People who have a duty to act like police officers and security guards can find themselves in very different scenarios than ordinary citizens. If a convenience store is being robbed it would not be acceptable for the security guard to run out the back door like I can do. So thus he is forced into confrontations, which someone who does not have a duty to act can merely evade the situation. Basically, the professional hired guns are supposed to push forward in the confrontation. They interject themselves into the situation because of that duty to act. Their definition of a win is apprehending the criminal or preventing a crime, whereas my definition of a win in a confrontation is simply surviving. Got it. I don't disagree that discretion is the better part of valor in general, but for the cases where you can't evade, it's fair to evaluate gear based on history outside OP's very narrow parameters. See the other posts in the thread about people not dying when they should. A civilian might be able to more easily get away with a technologically inferior choice, but it's still technologically inferior. |