[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SCOTUS upholds the ATF’s rule regulating “ghost guns” under the Gun Control Act (Page 4 of 6)
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Getting mad at the courts is a justifiable but myopic view Court rulings are just words on paper, powerless on their own What makes these rulings/laws real is enforcement. You should be more pissed off at your state/local police who are going to enforce bullshit and illegal laws. |
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Quoted: Exactly. This was not about the constitutionality of the CGA itself. From the questions asked: It was about the definition of a firearm and if it was a frame or receiver per the act. Wonder if the DoJ under Bondi could have intervened to headed off this ruling if it hadn't have been granted and argued under the Biden DoJ. (post edited/updated) Thanks for this. The outcome of all of this is still bullshit, but if there's a silver lining, the constitutionality of the GCA was not decided. That said, as Cargill stated, the courts are clearly not the place to go for overturning the GCA or NFA. We can only rely on SCOTUS for things like AWBs at this point, and even then, that scares me. |
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Quoted: WTF is a ghost gun and WTF do you need one? Jeebus fukn Cripes WTF is with you people? The Chicago ghetto goblins were pumping out handguns made from kits that were purchased without a background check. It was only a matter of time before they started showing up and became a political target like bump stocks and braces. |
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Quoted: I wonder if ATF is going to start kicking down doors looking for Polymer80 kits soon? The law hasn't changed, companies just can't sell a complete kit with the jigs anymore. P80 couldn't be stopped so they sued them until they made a 76% frame. Sad thing is everyone should know the deal behind 80% guns and everyone should be building them vs begging the king's permission to buy a gun. |
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Quoted: I'm sorry, as I read it, it doesn't apply to 80% or even P80 frames. It was P80 frames AND complete parts kits. Even the '76% frames can't be done in the '20 minutes' and don't fall under this. Nor any receiver that involves milling, welding, heat testing, etc. And remember... There's court discussion that says the lower isn't even the legal receiver. Quoted: I'm sorry, as I read it, it doesn't apply to 80% or even P80 frames. It was P80 frames AND complete parts kits. Even the '76% frames can't be done in the '20 minutes' and don't fall under this. Nor any receiver that involves milling, welding, heat testing, etc. And remember... There's court discussion that says the lower isn't even the legal receiver. The only good thing is they made no specific ruling on anything except that the ATF can make more determinations. Third, the plaintiffs criticize ATF’s rule for permitting the agency to consider “jigs,” “tools,” and “instructions” when deciding whether an incomplete “frame or receiver” is close enough to the finished product to fall under subsection (B). Brief for Respondent VanDerStok 25–26. The dissent echoes the complaint, offering a photo from the record depicting various tools and jigs. See post, at 14 (opinion of THOMAS, J.). But if this is a problem at all, it is one for another day. As litigated, this case does not call on us to address what weight, if any, ATF may lawfully give jigs, tools, and instructions when deciding whether a frame or receiver is present. This case requires us to answer only whether subsection (B) reaches some incomplete frames or receivers. Saying that it does is enough to resolve the dispute before us. |
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Quoted: it's an intersting question. I can take a PVC pipe, a tennis ball, a can of hairspray, and a lighter, and have that going in well under 21 minutes. So where did that metric come from? And what other criteria are involved in it's selective application? Quoted: Quoted: Anyone who's ever made a spud gun knows that PVC pipe is readily convertable to expel a projectile using an explosive. So serial numbers for pvc pipe? Background checks at Home Depot? If I need to cut it down to fix my sink do I have to SBR it? Seems like sloppy, wide open wording from SCOTUS. it's an intersting question. I can take a PVC pipe, a tennis ball, a can of hairspray, and a lighter, and have that going in well under 21 minutes. So where did that metric come from? And what other criteria are involved in it's selective application? What is the saying, an unclear or vague law is unenforceable? I think that should pertain to this rule. They seemed to break their toes trying to walk a razors edge here and only focused on a few kits when reality is a ton of basic building materials can be used to make a firearm. I know of an old guy ages ago that made a small cannon out of an axle housing. He'd drag it out and shoot it off every fourth of July. That old dude could make a cannon out of just about anything. Also not considered is the efficiency of someone knowing what they are doing especially if they have the right tools. Equal protection clause should make setting crimes based around time needed to finish something unconstitutional. |
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Quoted: Jokes on them when all you guyz move to free states.  And they are still selling 80% frames and receivers, well at least in free states  What I read of the ruling doesn't change much, just need to make the receiver order at one company and the parts at another. |
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Quoted: nope, those cases were not ripe back in early 2024 when this case was granted Cert. Quoted: Quoted: We have an AWB and mag ban case ripe for the picking, but they choose this? Fuckers nope, those cases were not ripe back in early 2024 when this case was granted Cert. You mean we can’t pick who plays in the 2027 Super Bowl after the playoffs in 2025? Yeah, too many gun owners pay way more attention to sports than gun rights |
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Quoted: We have an AWB and mag ban case ripe for the picking, but they choose this? Fuckers They granted the petition for this case on Apr 22 2024. Snope and Ocean State Tactical have yet to have their petitions granted. |
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Quoted: It's history. Quoted: Quoted: So what happened to History and Tradition? It's history. This case apparently wasn't questioning the constitutionality of the ATF rule, so no text history or tradition. In fact Bruen isn't mentioned once (unless my search terms failed) apparently either in the initial petition or the final opinion. Like most SCOTUS opinions they're structured to cover the questions asked. In this case there were two questions: 1. Whether "a weapon parts kit that is designed to or may readily be completed, assembled, restored, or otherwise converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive," 27 C.F.R. 478.11, is a "firearm" regulated by the Act. 2. Whether "a partially complete, disassembled, or nonfunctional frame or receiver" that is "designed to or may readily be completed, assembled, restored, or otherwise converted to function as a frame or receiver," 27 C.F.R. 478.12(c), is a "frame or receiver" regulated by the Act. |
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Quoted: The Chicago ghetto goblins were pumping out handguns made from kits that were purchased without a background check. It was only a matter of time before they started showing up and became a political target like bump stocks and braces. Quoted: Quoted: WTF is a ghost gun and WTF do you need one? Jeebus fukn Cripes WTF is with you people? The Chicago ghetto goblins were pumping out handguns made from kits that were purchased without a background check. It was only a matter of time before they started showing up and became a political target like bump stocks and braces. This is exactly why we will never have nice things like suppressors sold over the counter without a $200 NFA tax and fingerprints. |
| I have stated for years that Trump's Supreme Court judges are not true conservative. He went more of a lower conservative list rather than going from the top. Barrett is gonna be another turn coat. She will make Roberts look conservative. I'm added Milly against women being on the Supreme Court anyway. |
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In the documentary called “Red Dawn” I learned that a handful of teenagers with a 30/30, Remington 700, Remington 870, colt 45, and a compound bow can very quickly acquire pretty much every small arm their oppressor has. While I’m all for laws and rulings that support the 2A as the founders intended, let’s be real….the genie is already out of the bottle. Private American citizens already possess advanced small arms, optics, night vision and body armor. No laws are going to reverse that reality. |
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Quoted: WTF is a ghost gun and WTF do you need one? Jeebus fukn Cripes WTF is with you people? Last I checked, this was the United States of America and our constitution wasn't based upon "need" or what someone else thinks you "need". Do you "need" a car that goes over 75 mph since that's the speed limit? |
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Quoted: Ghost gun is a leftist slur for self made firearm. Quoted: Quoted: WTF is a ghost gun and WTF do you need one? Jeebus fukn Cripes WTF is with you people? Ghost gun is a leftist slur for self made firearm. Just like "assault weapon" and "Saturday Night Special". I suspect anyone using them in such a way as "Why do you neeeeeeed them" is a gun grabber, anti 2A, anti freedom, anti liberty. |
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Quoted: And yet the nation’s top constitutional authorities have ruled against that on far too many occasions. That belief is a minority opinion to them. Quoted: Quoted: All gun laws are Un-Constitutional. And yet the nation’s top constitutional authorities have ruled against that on far too many occasions. That belief is a minority opinion to them. LOL. That some people can be brainwashed into not understanding what the 2A says ornehat the founders meant or the contemporary definition of the words therein, or that they are willing to intentionally twist the constitution to conform to their own beliefs doesn't mean that the 2A hasn't been infringed upon. It's just a demonstrably absurd notion. |
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Quoted: Lol on registering open source, global software. I could see them tracking 3d printer hardware. Just like modern paper printers print a tracking code on every page you print with nearly invisible ink Attached File |
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The problem with serialization is that the anti-gun states will turn that process into anything they'd like. |
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Theoretically any semi auto can be converted to fire "full auto" via bump firing, shoestring, belt loops, ect. And anyone with a wire coat hanger has a ready made drop in sear. |
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Quoted: I could see them tracking 3d printer hardware. Just like modern paper printers print a tracking code on every page you print with nearly invisible ink https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/285899/1000024382_jpg-3500801.JPG Wouldn't the obvious workaround be to just buy one at a garage sale or Goodwill. |
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Quoted: Seems that they're basically saying that certain kits aren't actually 80% done, but rather closer to the 100% done that makes them a firearm. The 80% rule was very subjective and companies pushed that line until they stepped over it. And while there shouldn’t be a line, there always is and people will push it… in many ways that is the American thing to do. At the same time, the government will push back. The question is who pushes harder in the end? We drove the Brien decision in NY and took a big step forward. Hocunt retaliated with the CCIA… two steps back. Now we are fighting with Antonyuk. It is the ebb and flow of the battle for freedom. |
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Quoted: Jokes on them when all you guyz move to free states. Many of us live in one, yet you always poke fun at us like our state is about to go communist like yours any minute. If gun freedom (and many other freedoms) don’t mean enough for you to you leave “Canada Lite” then enjoy your leftist state. Did you get your 5-year NY semi-auto rifle buyer permit to be able to purchase these?  |
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These morons in black robes ruled against history and traditions they just shit all over Bruen ruling that has had time for the communist to read and Hamilton their way around and words they wrote. In the 1800s you had to make your own gun and they didn't have serials numbers on them. Ivey league illiterates. I didn't study law enough to pick out every word and punctuation mark. When it was written they wrote as plain as they could for people to understand it. How they stretch to eliminate rights not granted by governor. Rights every person knows that God gave us. Impeach those politicians in robes that forward Marxist agendas. |
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Quoted: Many of us live in one, yet you always poke fun at us like our state is about to go communist like yours any minute. If gun freedom (and many other freedoms) don’t mean enough for you to you leave “Canada Lite” then enjoy your leftist state. Did you get your 5-year NY semi-auto rifle buyer permit to be able to purchase these? https://i.ibb.co/5xJG0ycJ/IMG-6845.jpg Dr Suess made an AR15!!! |