[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 99 of 142)
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Quoted: Gold Star for you Cpt Obvious. Man, nothing gets past you  Quoted: Quoted: The RXM has nothing to do with the 320 except the chassis and it isn't even a similar design. Gold Star for you Cpt Obvious. Man, nothing gets past you ...thus it's not an improved p320. It's an improved g19 though, IMO. Thanks for the condescension
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 Did the SIG P320 Just Kill a U.S. Airman Without Anyone Pulling the Trigger? Says he's not carrying the 320 (and that he pretty much didn't before). eta: beat. |
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Quoted:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NapE4CkWpHkSays he's not carrying the 320 (and that he pretty much didn't before). eta: beat. I like him But also feel that if sig called with enough zeros he'd shill for them |
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Quoted: I like him But also feel that if sig called with enough zeros he'd shill for them The NRA pushed for the NICS system, and Colion has been caught advocating for it too. I heard his answer to a reporter where he said universal background checks would be a good idea, but he went on to question how it could possibly be implemented. |
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Quoted: I'm not going to get into whether my sympathy towards the situation and the tragic death of the Airman is good enough for you or not. That would be pointless. We can just agree to disagree. I remain steadfast on how I feel, and yes it's a shame he is no longer with us and I can only hope the Air Force finds the responsible party, and holds them accountable to the fullest extent. You riding along on your high horse like there is damning evidence the P320 definitively killed the Airman, frankly blows my mind. I didn't think the direct Cause of Death has been established yet, has it? If the SIG is the culprit, than SIG deserves all the punishment it has coming. When that day comes, then I will be disappointed in SIG and look for some new guns. I don't think we are there yet. Why you'd Gaslight like you don't have a choice is funny to me. Quit your job if your a cop or take the ARTY or request the Court Marshall and get separated. They'll vindicate you like they did those that chose separation over the shot, but you got to be able to put your money where your mouth is and stop hoping the echo chamber will do it for you! Back in the day when I was Active Duty I never did anything I didn't want to. If I felt the way you did about the P320 I would definitely hold my line, not tow theirs and carry it! Now you getting worked up because I don't want to rush to assume or accuse without hearing the facts is not my problem. If there was damning evidence maybe I would be convinced but my apologies for not believing in your Bigfoot bro. Since you've done some homework about me before typing, allow me to do the rest.... No, I do not work for SIG but I probably would if given the opportunity. We have had a long and good relationship. They've never let me down and they've gone above and beyond for me. If there's a chance at cleaning up this mess, I would love to be on the clean up team. I'm confident they'd call me the Winston Wolf if they brought me in! Do I post about SIG? Yes, I post about the models I own and the things I like about them. Not to uncommon in a gun forum I would think. Many here are just upset I still have SIG's back but I don't just fold like the masses when I believe in something, so stop being upset and let it go, you don't have to understand my loyalty just like I can't get you to understand how they've earned it throughout the years. Oh and I tend to support those that support me, regardless of their popularity. Fortunately for me, my P320's haven't shot me yet and the other 14 SIG's I own haven't had this issue, but give it time and the echo chamber here will grow to consume every SIG, and your brand will be next. Or my SIG will shoot my dick off, right. Either outcome will be much deserved for whoever is wrong. Personally I hope I'm wrong and you're right... That would mean there's just a few of us loyalist idiots instead of many of you believe it all, Me too idiots! One way or another, the unfortunate death of the Airman has polarized this issue way more than a debate in ARFCOM so I'm curious to see where this goes now. In WA State it will be hard to dig myself out of the SIG hole, but anything is possible just like a SIG shooting by itself so I remain open minded but unconvinced. Just deal with it! Doesn't mean I'm more or less American or lacking of empathy, just means I am not convinced. Attached File Mob mentality in GD? Who woulda thunk it? |
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Quoted: Regardless of what comes of the 320; it isn’t going to bankrupt the company or put them out of business. I don’t know man those military contracts are pretty lucrative. I mean if the military drops them and says they’re shit, who going to keep buying them? |
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Quoted: I don’t know man those military contracts are pretty lucrative. I mean if the military drops them and says they’re shit, who going to keep buying them? Even if they lost the US handgun contract they still have multiple other US based contracts. Dont forget Sig has numerous foreign contracts for multiple weapons and equipment as well. |
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Quoted: Sig stock is gonna be at all time low soon Quoted: Sig stock is gonna be at all time low soon A quick search says that Sig USA is a privately owned company that is not publicly traded. |
| The sig cult keeps spouting off about "holster issues". Do you have any idea for how long other striker guns have been carried around on the cheapest POS uncle Mike's/eBay/Amazon universal holsters (let alone quality ones) and they don't seem to be popping off by themselves regularly, but we're supposed to believe this is due to that when this has now happened multiple times in Safariland and similar highly regarded duty holsters? That doesn't pass the smell test to me. "But but but there's a lot of 320's in circulation! Yeah, and there's more of many other brands/models. And even if it is something holster related, if it's happening repeatedly in quality holsters of different brands, that still seems like a major problem. Some folks need to quit trying to justify their choices by ignoring an obvious issue. Granted the military thing was likely perpetuated by some serious palm greasing, but that's another issue altogether. |
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Quoted: You're wondering if they're going to get cheaper if they stop making them? Quoted: Quoted: If Sig goes tits up do you think the magazines prices for the P365X will drop below $37.50 ? or should you buy a few more now? Asking for a friend . I would think that the manufacture (who ever that is) of them would maybe start selling them. Mec-Gar Metal Form Check Mate would get into the game eventually . |
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Quoted: This, all the comments about well I’ll just buy a P365 instead. No don’t buy anything from those SOBs. They have blood on their hands. People’s lives have been forever changed. Quoted: Quoted: It truly is sinister. Sig has backed themselves into a corner. In order for them to come up with a solution, they have to admit there’s a problem. They repeatedly denied problem in court, so to come out now would cause not only financial problems but possible perjury charges. Remember that they have not even acknowledged the ability of a 320 to fire when dropped. That was a voluntary upgrade and not a recall. Most of us knew it was only a matter time before a police officer, or servicemen, lost their life, and sadly I would venture that it’s only a matter of time before an innocent person, or a child loses their life. Sig truly is an evil company. This, all the comments about well I’ll just buy a P365 instead. No don’t buy anything from those SOBs. They have blood on their hands. People’s lives have been forever changed. Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. |
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Quoted: Even if they lost the US handgun contract they still have multiple other US based contracts. Dont forget Sig has numerous foreign contracts for multiple weapons and equipment as well. Quoted: Quoted: I don’t know man those military contracts are pretty lucrative. I mean if the military drops them and says they’re shit, who going to keep buying them? Even if they lost the US handgun contract they still have multiple other US based contracts. Dont forget Sig has numerous foreign contracts for multiple weapons and equipment as well. IIRC, they are the #1 supplier of small arms worldwide. |
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Quoted: What do you think they are going to do with the 180,000 that they froze shipment on? Quoted: Quoted: Sig clearly intends to keep the 320 in their catalog, with no sales, until they can quietly discontinue it in 3-4 years. It’s a completely sociopathic approach and I hope the market punishes them appropriately. What do you think they are going to do with the 180,000 that they froze shipment on? Sell them to some third world military or police forces that will carry Israeli style? I doubt even CDNN will take them now.  Kharn |
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Quoted: It's even https://distortion.io/i/IMG_5198.jpg Received emails from several ranges as well as scheduled matches in my area banning all 320 variants as of today  How many pitbulls would someone have to own to think this pistol is something they should buy? |
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Quoted: Sell them to some third world military or police forces that will carry Israeli style? I doubt even CDNN will take them now. Kharn Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sig clearly intends to keep the 320 in their catalog, with no sales, until they can quietly discontinue it in 3-4 years. It’s a completely sociopathic approach and I hope the market punishes them appropriately. Kharn 
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Quoted: I don’t get it. I understand Sig is in an unprecedented situation. This issue very well could end company, but I feel like the precedent set by other “unprecedented situations” is that “deny, deny, deny” is not the play. I never cared for Sigs, so I don’t know much about their products or why “FRC(?)” is a thing(like was the dislike for this guy was before this situation?). It seems like they had enough good products to at least sustain the company while they actively try to figure this issue out? If they were to just come out and say “yeah there’s an issue with P320/M17/M18 and we are trying to figure it out”, would their other sales have kept them afloat even if they had to dump a majority of their government contract into actually fixing the issue? It’s very clearly too late for that, but that just seems like what they should have done from the get go. I know, I know… corporate greed and all that, but damn, just nut up, be honest, and accept the fact that the next few years are going to be rough on the company. Again, they have a pedigree. this contract wasn’t their ticket to the big boys table or anything. Just my thoughts, whatever they are worth Eh, both Remington & Taurus had shake awake sears. Taurus was forced to do a complete recall & survived, Remington did not. |
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Quoted: Regardless of what comes of the 320; it isn’t going to bankrupt the company or put them out of business. "Regardless" is a fairly strong term in this context. Trying to figure out how much Sig is worth is hard due to the multi-national nature of the companies. It's hard to get a clear answer of how much Sig USA is actually worth. As a point of reference, though, S&W and Ruger both hover around $500M or so depending upon which site you look at and when. Then the questions are: -How much of Sig USA's revenue is dependent upon P320 variants? -How many P320s are in circulation? -How much would it cost to repair or replace all of those P320s? -What legal liabilities hit when a repair/replacement program is announced? Depending upon Sig's actual financials, and how much cash they can get from the Vaterland, they might be in for a couple of down years, or they could be in for some seriously hard times. |
 Florida official urges law enforcement to suspend SIG Sauer P320 use Did we do this video yet? It sounds like that very experienced police officer had his ankle shattered by a Sig P320. He does not strike me as an inexperienced officer. He is retired now. Maybe this injury pushed that along...   Sig P320 Accidental Discharge Compilation Above is a really good compilation of some video and injuries/x-rays of injuries. It is only 5 minutes 39 seconds if you are trying to catch up with all this quickly. |
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Quoted: A quick search says that Sig USA is a privately owned company that is not publicly traded. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm not going to get into whether my sympathy towards the situation and the tragic death of the Airman is good enough for you or not. That would be pointless. We can just agree to disagree. I remain steadfast on how I feel, and yes it's a shame he is no longer with us and I can only hope the Air Force finds the responsible party, and holds them accountable to the fullest extent. You riding along on your high horse like there is damning evidence the P320 definitively killed the Airman, frankly blows my mind. I didn't think the direct Cause of Death has been established yet, has it? If the SIG is the culprit, than SIG deserves all the punishment it has coming. When that day comes, then I will be disappointed in SIG and look for some new guns. I don't think we are there yet. Why you'd Gaslight like you don't have a choice is funny to me. Quit your job if your a cop or take the ARTY or request the Court Marshall and get separated. They'll vindicate you like they did those that chose separation over the shot, but you got to be able to put your money where your mouth is and stop hoping the echo chamber will do it for you! Back in the day when I was Active Duty I never did anything I didn't want to. If I felt the way you did about the P320 I would definitely hold my line, not tow theirs and carry it! Now you getting worked up because I don't want to rush to assume or accuse without hearing the facts is not my problem. If there was damning evidence maybe I would be convinced but my apologies for not believing in your Bigfoot bro. Since you've done some homework about me before typing, allow me to do the rest.... No, I do not work for SIG but I probably would if given the opportunity. We have had a long and good relationship. They've never let me down and they've gone above and beyond for me. If there's a chance at cleaning up this mess, I would love to be on the clean up team. I'm confident they'd call me the Winston Wolf if they brought me in! Do I post about SIG? Yes, I post about the models I own and the things I like about them. Not to uncommon in a gun forum I would think. Many here are just upset I still have SIG's back but I don't just fold like the masses when I believe in something, so stop being upset and let it go, you don't have to understand my loyalty just like I can't get you to understand how they've earned it throughout the years. Oh and I tend to support those that support me, regardless of their popularity. Fortunately for me, my P320's haven't shot me yet and the other 14 SIG's I own haven't had this issue, but give it time and the echo chamber here will grow to consume every SIG, and your brand will be next. Or my SIG will shoot my dick off, right. Either outcome will be much deserved for whoever is wrong. Personally I hope I'm wrong and you're right... That would mean there's just a few of us loyalist idiots instead of many of you believe it all, Me too idiots! One way or another, the unfortunate death of the Airman has polarized this issue way more than a debate in ARFCOM so I'm curious to see where this goes now. In WA State it will be hard to dig myself out of the SIG hole, but anything is possible just like a SIG shooting by itself so I remain open minded but unconvinced. Just deal with it! Doesn't mean I'm more or less American or lacking of empathy, just means I am not convinced. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/toast_gif-994.gif Mob mentality in GD? Who woulda thunk it? Yep its gotten pretty bad |
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Quoted: Eh, both Remington & Taurus had shake awake sears. Taurus was forced to do a complete recall & survived, Remington did not. Quoted: Quoted: I don’t get it. I understand Sig is in an unprecedented situation. This issue very well could end company, but I feel like the precedent set by other “unprecedented situations” is that “deny, deny, deny” is not the play. I never cared for Sigs, so I don’t know much about their products or why “FRC(?)” is a thing(like was the dislike for this guy was before this situation?). It seems like they had enough good products to at least sustain the company while they actively try to figure this issue out? If they were to just come out and say “yeah there’s an issue with P320/M17/M18 and we are trying to figure it out”, would their other sales have kept them afloat even if they had to dump a majority of their government contract into actually fixing the issue? It’s very clearly too late for that, but that just seems like what they should have done from the get go. I know, I know… corporate greed and all that, but damn, just nut up, be honest, and accept the fact that the next few years are going to be rough on the company. Again, they have a pedigree. this contract wasn’t their ticket to the big boys table or anything. Just my thoughts, whatever they are worth Eh, both Remington & Taurus had shake awake sears. Taurus was forced to do a complete recall & survived, Remington did not. Both of those are companies that I don't exactly hold in high regards, and would pretty much never recommend. Sig has joined them. I never trusted their rifles, now I don't trust their pistols. You may question why, but I don't. |
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Quoted: Both of those are companies that I don't exactly hold in high regards, and would pretty much never recommend. Sig has joined them. I never trusted their rifles, now I don't trust their pistols. You may question why, but I don't. You fellas really are the bearers of bad news... What is wrong with their rifles? I happen to own a few NH built rifles and they work fine, what am I missing? ETA... I actually haven't shot my Cross so maybe that one has issues. |
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Quoted: Both of those are companies that I don't exactly hold in high regards, and would pretty much never recommend. Sig has joined them. I never trusted their rifles, now I don't trust their pistols. You may question why, but I don't. This 100% I was Sig holdout supporter till April of 25, Sig ended there for me. Sold everyone of the ones I had and a few of my friends did as well after seeing me a tout them for the last 5yrs drop them like a hot rock. No more, I would not touch guns, company or anything they have their fingers in. There are simply better options to put my faith in. |
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I think the interwebz forums are piling on the hate of SIG since it is at the forefront of interest. I see this similar to the Volkswagen ~diesel-gate~ where the maker shows the CARB tests were bananas and Obama was just punishing them for showing the tests didn't save the environment. But the environmentalists were louder than others, so they paid their fines. And I still don't know anyone who did not have a delete on their diesels on either cars or trucks. Another class action that did not go far was all of those runaway Prius cars that had uncommanded acceleration claims. Typically, there would be more claims when there is a panic of that nature, and I do not know anyone who was affected by the uncommanded accelerations. And back to the P320... I think SIG is having a Corvair / Ralph Nader issue. |
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Quoted: IIRC, they are the #1 supplier of small arms worldwide. I highly doubt that claim, the only information to that tune that I've been able to find is that in 2017 they were the largest exporter in the US, but even then, they fell behind in 2022 with Ruger and Mossberg taking the lead and seem to have stayed that way, I can't imagine them going any higher right now. |
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Quoted: Read about the moonies first. Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. M&P Shields look more attractive every day. |
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Quoted: Read about the moonies first. Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Just be like the army a decade ago and buy a Glock 43, 43x, 26, or 48. |
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Quoted: You fellas really are the bearers of bad news... What is wrong with their rifles? I happen to own a few NH built rifles and they work fine, what am I missing? ETA... I actually haven't shot my Cross so maybe that one has issues. Quoted: Quoted: Both of those are companies that I don't exactly hold in high regards, and would pretty much never recommend. Sig has joined them. I never trusted their rifles, now I don't trust their pistols. You may question why, but I don't. You fellas really are the bearers of bad news... What is wrong with their rifles? I happen to own a few NH built rifles and they work fine, what am I missing? ETA... I actually haven't shot my Cross so maybe that one has issues. There were issues with bolts being bumped causing NDs and safeties getting stuck between safe and fire. |
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Quoted: I would think that the manufacture (who ever that is) of them would maybe start selling them. Mec-Gar Metal Form Check Mate would get into the game eventually . Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If Sig goes tits up do you think the magazines prices for the P365X will drop below $37.50 ? or should you buy a few more now? Asking for a friend . I would think that the manufacture (who ever that is) of them would maybe start selling them. Mec-Gar Metal Form Check Mate would get into the game eventually . Magpul is making them now as well. Soon to be released anyways. |
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Quoted: That remains to be seen. It's different, but a bit early to say it's improved. Quoted: Quoted: ...thus it's not an improved p320. It's an improved g19 though, IMO. Thanks for the condescension That remains to be seen. It's different, but a bit early to say it's improved. Again, IMO. I have both, love the reliability of Glocks, the ergos have always been meh to me. The RXM fixes that and a ton more. I do agree though that time will tell, it's still young versus the glock that is the same design it has been for....40 years? Anyways, back on topic - absolutely nothing in common with the rube goldberg MIM CAD bullshit design of the p320. When the design is so bad that you can't even tell exactly where it is failing, that's a sign. But muh service pistol! |
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Quoted: Read about the moonies first. Yeah, I remember we supposed to hate them as well. Quoted: Just be like the army a decade ago and buy a Glock 43, 43x, 26, or 48. At least Glock's side quest just involves jacking off horses! Quoted: Religious cult that runs Kahr. If you're looking to replace a SIG at this point, your logical options are Smith, Ruger, Glock, or Springfield (gross). Smith and Wesson? |
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Quoted: Religious cult that runs Kahr. If you're looking to replace a SIG at this point, your logical options are Smith, Ruger, Glock, or Springfield (gross). Quoted: Quoted: Moonies????? Religious cult that runs Kahr. If you're looking to replace a SIG at this point, your logical options are Smith, Ruger, Glock, or Springfield (gross). Yeah a cult runs Kahr. The question that I’ve never had answered by anyone is “why does that matter”? I can’t find allegations of any real wrong doing. I own two Kahr pistols. They’re very well made and have a very good double action trigger (or at least that’s what they call it given it is a striker design). It’s said that they have good customer service too. So, serious question, why does it matter that Moonies run Kahr? |
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Quoted: $400-$500 is what deniers or people who don't know about the issue pay Once the knowledge becomes more widespread you can drop that figure substantially. I recently told a guy on my church team about the issues with the P320. He had no idea, but I sent him some links and now he has a PDP. Quoted: Quoted: Looking at used M17's and M18's on gunbroker, most have sold in the $400-500 mark. Used Glock 19 gen 5's are going for around the same price used. Comparatively, the M18 retails for around $100 more than a G19 gen 5, so it does seem demand for the Sig is dropping off. $400-$500 is what deniers or people who don't know about the issue pay Once the knowledge becomes more widespread you can drop that figure substantially. I recently told a guy on my church team about the issues with the P320. He had no idea, but I sent him some links and now he has a PDP. I'd probably pay $100 FTF if I knew someone who was selling one. Not because I want to use it, but because I want to tear it down and fiddle with the components out of curiosity. But that's only worth about $100 to me, and not worth the hassle of going through an FFL for something I won't even shoot. I agree with the video someone posted a few days ago asking people to please not sell them or carry them. |
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Quoted: Read about the moonies first. Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Why? I don’t think there’s anything about the Moonies that’s a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. |
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Quoted: Why? I don't think there's anything about the Moonies that's a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Briefly thought about replacing my 320's with 365's and then realized I would be happier buying from a company that hasn't behaved like Sig. Pondering kahr now. Read about the moonies first. Why? I don't think there's anything about the Moonies that's a deal breaker for unrelated business. What he should read about is Kahr firearms. There was a time when they were competitive, but that ended a long time ago. Kahr was outperformed by the single stack striker guns, and that was before we got the micros we have now. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SIG “ The P320. It ends today.” (Page 99 of 142)
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