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Quoted: That's just it: she didn't act recklessly, given the facts as she knew them at that moment. What is she supposed to do, ask him to take a picture of his bullet wound and text it to her before she responded? She had absolutely no reason to doubt anything she saw at that moment wasn't exactly what it appeared to be. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: At my own private range the rules are know your target and what's beyond it. For the cops it's, "My buddy screwed up and I murdered someone I never even saw but it's ok because I believed my fuck-up buddy who heard an acorn fall or something." These dopes are somehow held to a lower standard than a 10 yo with a 22lr at my place Wonder if this woman would have been swiftly cleared if she lit up the police chief's kid in the exact same manner lol https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7892-3129572.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7890-3129574.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7891-3129576.jpg "Oops, my bad. Next time maybe I'll double-check before I try to kill someone, just to make sure they actually did something wrong." Obviously I'm looking at this from the standpoint that she gambled the facts would justify her reckless actions...and whoops, that's not what happened so there should be consequences. You're in the "reasonable belief" camp and that's fine too. Either way her buddies cleared her of any wrongdoing This is kind of where I am, too. All she had to go on in the moment was her partner/subordinate yelling he was shot by the guy in the car, she was in a tough spot with only the information she later found out to be erroneous. |
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Quoted: Ultimately Officer Skittish created the situation. So yes I agree he's culpable for the whole event. However, I also accept responsibility for every bullet I fire...... shouldn't we all? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was indeed a reasonable basis for her belief and actions, but not for his. Report https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7885-3129158.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7886-3129159.jpg Listen, even that comes back to exactly what I posted: shooting at noises. The difference is that the department's brass seems to think that shooting, mag-dumping really, is a reasonable response to a noise, and apparently you agree. Did you take note that these LE professionals evidently can't proofread well enough to catch "interrupted" where they presumably meant to use "interpreted"? Color me skeptical about their conclusions in general. She didn't know her target. She shouldn't have shot. Tactically she did well. My concern is when one cop makes a mistake they all go full in and extreme all the damn time.....it's a danger to all. Would your position be different if she killed the guy? How did she determine lethal force was necessary, blindly? If the officer skittish gets to shoulder criminal responsibility for every bullet fired by both officers, then I'll accept nothing happening to the female officer. But he departed the department and will likely just show up to another one. So we all know what kind of accountability there is likely to end up being. Ultimately Officer Skittish created the situation. So yes I agree he's culpable for the whole event. However, I also accept responsibility for every bullet I fire...... shouldn't we all? Different rules for the better ones because reasons. "I was scared!". "well I was totally reasonable thinking [insert retarded justification] Until cops stop being able to skate away from responsibility, they will continue to do shit like this. And you can safely bet the most a cop will face will be having to bounce to another department. That's been proven time and time again. |
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Quoted: Different rules for the better ones because reasons. "I was scared!". "well I was totally reasonable thinking [insert retarded justification] Until cops stop being able to skate away from responsibility, they will continue to do shit like this. And you can safely bet the most a cop will face will be having to bounce to another department. That's been proven time and time again. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was indeed a reasonable basis for her belief and actions, but not for his. Report https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7885-3129158.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7886-3129159.jpg Listen, even that comes back to exactly what I posted: shooting at noises. The difference is that the department's brass seems to think that shooting, mag-dumping really, is a reasonable response to a noise, and apparently you agree. Did you take note that these LE professionals evidently can't proofread well enough to catch "interrupted" where they presumably meant to use "interpreted"? Color me skeptical about their conclusions in general. She didn't know her target. She shouldn't have shot. Tactically she did well. My concern is when one cop makes a mistake they all go full in and extreme all the damn time.....it's a danger to all. Would your position be different if she killed the guy? How did she determine lethal force was necessary, blindly? If the officer skittish gets to shoulder criminal responsibility for every bullet fired by both officers, then I'll accept nothing happening to the female officer. But he departed the department and will likely just show up to another one. So we all know what kind of accountability there is likely to end up being. Ultimately Officer Skittish created the situation. So yes I agree he's culpable for the whole event. However, I also accept responsibility for every bullet I fire...... shouldn't we all? Different rules for the better ones because reasons. "I was scared!". "well I was totally reasonable thinking [insert retarded justification] Until cops stop being able to skate away from responsibility, they will continue to do shit like this. And you can safely bet the most a cop will face will be having to bounce to another department. That's been proven time and time again. And just like that.... applying universal gun safety laws shut the jack boots up. |
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Quoted: Ultimately Officer Skittish created the situation. So yes I agree he's culpable for the whole event. However, I also accept responsibility for every bullet I fire...... shouldn't we all? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was indeed a reasonable basis for her belief and actions, but not for his. Report https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7885-3129158.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7886-3129159.jpg Listen, even that comes back to exactly what I posted: shooting at noises. The difference is that the department's brass seems to think that shooting, mag-dumping really, is a reasonable response to a noise, and apparently you agree. Did you take note that these LE professionals evidently can't proofread well enough to catch "interrupted" where they presumably meant to use "interpreted"? Color me skeptical about their conclusions in general. She didn't know her target. She shouldn't have shot. Tactically she did well. My concern is when one cop makes a mistake they all go full in and extreme all the damn time.....it's a danger to all. Would your position be different if she killed the guy? How did she determine lethal force was necessary, blindly? If the officer skittish gets to shoulder criminal responsibility for every bullet fired by both officers, then I'll accept nothing happening to the female officer. But he departed the department and will likely just show up to another one. So we all know what kind of accountability there is likely to end up being. Ultimately Officer Skittish created the situation. So yes I agree he's culpable for the whole event. However, I also accept responsibility for every bullet I fire...... shouldn't we all? Pfffft... personal responsibility and common sense is only expected from us peasants. |
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Quoted: you ALREADY know that answer! TBL folks will be here to defend this shortly. whole lotta WTF in that video. View Quote Some of you are more paranoid than quickdraw McGraw in the video. There's no arfcops here that will make a seriously defense of this guy, just speculating on the rediculousness of this case like everyone else FFS. |
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Quoted: Late to this thread, but did that guy actually say, "I'm hit!?" View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That dudes composure is shit under duress. Late to this thread, but did that guy actually say, "I'm hit!?" Because in his training he’s never been shot so he assumed that he was hit. Just like neither of them were never trained on what suppressed weapons sounded like so they assumed that a falling acorn was a suppressed shot. All stuff that reasonable officers do. |
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Quoted: Some of you are more paranoid than quickdraw McGraw in the video. There's no arfcops here that will make a seriously defense of this guy, just speculating on the rediculousness of this case like everyone else FFS. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: you ALREADY know that answer! TBL folks will be here to defend this shortly. whole lotta WTF in that video. Some of you are more paranoid than quickdraw McGraw in the video. There's no arfcops here that will make a seriously defense of this guy, just speculating on the rediculousness of this case like everyone else FFS. LOL literally the next post after yours above, was someone who called what that cop did "what reasonable officers do" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Edit: it MUST be sarcasm lol....... |
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Quoted: Really? You can't hear 100+ decibels near you? How did she hear him yelling then? View Quote This deputy was a fucking idiot, plain and simple. However, have you ever heard suppressed handgun fire from inside an enclosed object near you? I'm guessing it's going to be under 100dB given that most suppressed, non-subsonic handgun rounds are about 110-120dB at the muzzle. I've also had some acorns hit my car with a loud enough bang that I ducked (but did not do a double barrel roll to double mag-dump while screaming that I'd been shot). I could see the stimulus (noise) being confusing for a second, but the response to said stimulus gets out of |
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Quoted: Some dont go through selection and qualification before joining a unit. Especially if theyre just doing administrative stuff. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No wonder he blew it up so fast When asked about prior military experience, Deputy Hernandez said he attended West Point, and was an infantry officer and an officer in special forces for the army for a total of ten years. Deputy Hernandez said he had two combat rotations to Afghanistan, but noted as an officer, he was not in direct combat Commissioned SF officers don't go out on patrol? That whole reaction kind of shocks me from a former military guy. This video was sent out on the department email the other day. I giggled. |
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Man is that department getting slagged on their Instagram page, lol.
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Cop was likely an awesome guy caught in a series of unfortunate events while under an immense amount of tension. With the hostility LEOs have had to deal with these last few years who can blame him for being so stressed out while patrolling the streets? Could have happened to anyone.
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Quoted: Cop was likely an awesome guy caught in a series of unfortunate events while under an immense amount of tension. With the hostility LEOs have had to deal with these last few years who can blame him for being so stressed out while patrolling the streets? Could have happened to anyone. View Quote Heaven help anybody in eyeshot if a car ever backfires. |
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Ricky Bobby - Invisible Fire (HD) |
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Quoted: I'm a fat, useless retired cop now. But I used to investigate officer-involved shootings. We had to explore every avenue in our investigations, even what some may consider to be moot issues that the officers' defense counsel may bring up. Try these issues on for size: -My client received absolutely no training at the academy regarding the functioning and/or the actual report that results from suppressed firearms. Here's a copy of the classroom and range training lesson plans. You'll notice that no such information was included. -My client received no training from his FTO in the area of suppressed firearms. Here's a copy of his satisfactory completed FTO book. -My client had no prior incidents wherein he was shot at or any rounds were fired by him or any partner officers. -My client was informed that the suspect had possession of a suppressed firearm at some point in time prior to the incident in question. -My client recognized that the suspect had not been thoroughly searched prior to being placed in the marked police unit, which had tinted windows, thus making it difficult or impossible to see what the suspect may have been doing while inside. -My client had previously experienced suspects who were able to bring their properly cuffed hands to the front of their bodies by "walking through" the cuffs, thus making them far more dangerous to officer safety than had their hands remained behind their backs. A secreted firearm could then be aimed and fired as though the suspect had not been handcuffed. -As documented in the IA report, a sound emanated from the marked police unit just as my client approached it. He interpreted the sound made by an acorn onto the vehicle as a bullet exiting from inside the vehicle, aimed at him. -As my client fell to the ground to avoid being shot, he immediately felt pain throughout his body and believed that he had been shot. That belief, as well as his conclusion that the sound made by the acorn was suppressed gunfire, led him to alert the sergeant with him on the call that shots had been fired. He reacted by firing his duty pistol into the vehicle where he believed that shot had emanated from. The sergeant, seeing that my client was down, responded in kind by firing her duty pistol at the marked unit in an attempt to stop the threat. If you think these assertions are outlandish, you ain't seen nothing compared to real LEO IA defense cases. View Quote That axe needs to swing both ways when a private citizen is approached by someone claiming to be le that exhibits behavior outside the advertised claims of le and what the private citizen has familiarity and training with. You have brought up good info because that also explains another part of why there is such a deterioration of society. |
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Quoted: Quoted: At my own private range the rules are know your target and what's beyond it. For the cops it's, "My buddy screwed up and I murdered someone I never even saw but it's ok because I believed my fuck-up buddy who heard an acorn fall or something." These dopes are somehow held to a lower standard than a 10 yo with a 22lr at my place Wonder if this woman would have been swiftly cleared if she lit up the police chief's kid in the exact same manner lol https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7892-3129572.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7890-3129574.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/214740/IMG_7891-3129576.jpg Closed business does not equal no people inside. |
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I recall many years ago, I was working alongside a deputy. I was working private security at a government building.
Deputy and I had to deal with a combative individual, who ended up leaving the building. As soon as we got him out the door, we heard a loud *BANG*. It sounded just like a gunshot. But these people are searched thoroughly, and there was no way he would have gotten his hands on a gun. Deputy and I looked out the door, and turns out the person had thrown a large rock at the door. Door was wooden or metal... don't recall which, but it had no window on it, or if it did... the window was really small and possibly blocked out. But it seriously did sound like a gunshot. My heart actually did jump when I heard that bang, as my first reaction was "GUNSHOT". Deputy probably thought the same thing, but we knew situationally there was no possibility that person had a gun... Deputy opened the door, and combative person was dancing around taunting us like a crazy person, and then fled the scene. Deputy couldn't give chase due to being required to remain at the facility,... but did call him in to local PD. Neither of us pulled our weapons... nor even reached for it. So I hear cops say "Yeah, you think its so easy... YOU do better!" Yeah, well when it comes to mr-Acorn-shooting-cop over here... pretty sure that's a pretty low bar to beat. |
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Quoted: Some of you are more paranoid than quickdraw McGraw in the video. There's no arfcops here that will make a seriously defense of this guy, just speculating on the rediculousness of this case like everyone else FFS. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: you ALREADY know that answer! TBL folks will be here to defend this shortly. whole lotta WTF in that video. Some of you are more paranoid than quickdraw McGraw in the video. There's no arfcops here that will make a seriously defense of this guy, just speculating on the rediculousness of this case like everyone else FFS. But they are defending the chick that shot without identifying her target. |
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Quoted: Cop was likely an awesome guy caught in a series of unfortunate events while under an immense amount of tension. With the hostility LEOs have had to deal with these last few years who can blame him for being so stressed out while patrolling the streets? Could have happened to anyone. View Quote Dear God please be sarcasm. If that was a hard day than you are a weenie. Unacceptable performance no matter how much you cuck about it. |
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Quoted: This deputy was a fucking idiot, plain and simple. However, have you ever heard suppressed handgun fire from inside an enclosed object near you? I'm guessing it's going to be under 100dB given that most suppressed, non-subsonic handgun rounds are about 110-120dB at the muzzle. I've also had some acorns hit my car with a loud enough bang that I ducked (but did not do a double barrel roll to double mag-dump while screaming that I'd been shot). I could see the stimulus (noise) being confusing for a second, but the response to said stimulus gets out of View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Really? You can't hear 100+ decibels near you? How did she hear him yelling then? This deputy was a fucking idiot, plain and simple. However, have you ever heard suppressed handgun fire from inside an enclosed object near you? I'm guessing it's going to be under 100dB given that most suppressed, non-subsonic handgun rounds are about 110-120dB at the muzzle. I've also had some acorns hit my car with a loud enough bang that I ducked (but did not do a double barrel roll to double mag-dump while screaming that I'd been shot). I could see the stimulus (noise) being confusing for a second, but the response to said stimulus gets out of It's going to have to exit the vehicle which is also not going to be quiet. |
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Quoted: Who shot 1st or was it a " I heard " shots. View Quote An acorn fell on the roof of a car. Suspect was alleged to have multiple weapons and a silencer, but was unarmed at the time of the incident. For reasons unknown the male deputy, Hernandez, not only thought the sound was a gun shot, but also that he had been hit. |
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Quoted: You know i’m right. Maybe someday when you grow up and see things more objectively you’ll evolve to that position too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The more time I spend in GD the more i think that most of you shouldn’t have access to anything more dangerous than a can of beans. Of course you do. You know i’m right. Maybe someday when you grow up and see things more objectively you’ll evolve to that position too. Deadly high-capacity No. 2 cans of assault beans should only be available to trained professionals. Civilians have no need for these silent but deadly weapons of war. |
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Quoted: Because in his training he’s never been shot so he assumed that he was hit. Just like neither of them were never trained on what suppressed weapons sounded like so they assumed that a falling acorn was a suppressed shot. All stuff that reasonable officers do. View Quote He was former special ops. You think he would have had some training. |
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Quoted: As stupid as these cops were in this incident, the vast majority of citizens are still even more stupid. And certainly not capable of policing themselves. Pretty scary. View Quote Cops ARE citizens. Participation in a paramilitary organization that is not under the Uniform Code of Military Justice does not confer "non-citizen" status. |
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View Quote God damn |
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I want to see the body cam footage from after as his partner starts to figure out what happened.
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