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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:48:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the difference is that a lot of "farmers" work outside the farm and just use the farm to write off expensive toys (trucks, side by sides, tractors, etc). Their profit motive is weak. Seems like a lot of work to just own some "expensive toys" like a truck or tractor. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:50:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, well, get back to me when your Utopia is achieved. Utopia? Hardly. I’d settle for a country that doesn’t tax the red states to pay the blue ones. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:50:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Arthur Godfrey: "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could be just as proud for half the money."
George Sutherland: "The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether to avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted." |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:54:30 PM EDT
[#4]
Warren and Howard Buffett…
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:54:58 PM EDT
[#5]
The only way to turn a profit with ranching, at least in my AO, is if someone else paid/pays for the land.
The guys I know turning the best profits have bought homesteads that are used for hay production and keeping prize/project animals. They use their equipment to make hay for others or “lease” (for basically nothing) small parcels to allow owners to get property tax AG exemption on those parcels Their baby factories are on “leased” land (again for little or nothing) owned by others who have bigger more suitable parcels and want the property tax AG exemption. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Still trying to justify it here. I have all the info I need but trying to decide if the juice is worth the squeeze. You have to find the right tax guy: aggressive, conservative, one who hates the Government as much as you do. We found one, and he retired, and we are working with his son. Money well spent. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:05:12 PM EDT
[#7]
There’s a lot more fuckery with seed and implements. Some of the stories from farmers makes it sound like seed companies and tractor companies are doing everything they can to stop profitable farmers. Or just take the farms directly. Last I heard Monsanto never lost a case.
The GPS systems on tractors are impressive. I went out there about five years ago to check it out. All the tractor operator had to do is turn around and press a button and it tracks the rows better than most people could. That doesn’t come cheap and manufacturers increasingly make much of the stuff factory serviceable only. With the budget farmers have and time constraints that just kills profit. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:12:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are using exactly these kinds of strategies to limit our personal and business tax liabilities. I’ve had two farmers tell me they couldn’t afford to not buy a new truck.  We used to write off mileage but haven’t in a couple years. Not sure how that would work with the CPA if we triggered an audit. I expect they would stand behind their work but nothing about |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#9]
Anyone have any books or anything on doing this? I would like to start a little farmstead business and would like to take advantage of any (legitimate) benefits.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:17:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Lol.
If you can raise $250k of beef with $50,000, I would like you to show me how. Costs of raising beef cattle |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:23:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. If you can raise $250k of beef with $50,000, I would like you to show me how. Costs of raising beef cattle Seems like somebody made a lot of money on cattle futures… |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:25:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You gotta do it like the oil men, get a farm, plant some corn, disk it up and hunt over it.  Does this corn have to be in a HOA? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:27:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know a lot of small time farmers who have another gig on the side. It tends to be grading, construction, or the like. Often something that overlaps their tool and skill use. Because generally speaking without some boutique thing you have to have a lot of land and overhead to make a real profit farming. But I dont see what you're getting at as being much different from most other small businesses. This. That off farm income is often a spouse working at the local bank, etc too. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:28:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the difference is that a lot of "farmers" work outside the farm and just use the farm to write off expensive toys (trucks, side by sides, tractors, etc). Their profit motive is weak. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: look at the median number......and that is the net profit on the schedule F So for example, let's say I have a cattle ranch. I sell enough F1 steers to get a check for $250,000 I have normal expenses for the year like feed, meds, fuckin bull tore up the fence again, fuel, oil, etc. That adds up to $50,000 so now I have a NOI of $200,000. Well looks like I need a new F250 and a new tractor. That's $200,000 section 179 it and thus 0 income. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/confused-britney-spears--83.gif What am I missing? how is this different than any other business? I can buy new cranes and welding machines instead of a tractor. I can get myself a new truck. If I spend or reinvest all of my earnings....wait for it....I have no earnings. But, who wants to run a business and have no earnings? I actually own and run a business and I have no idea what you're getting at. What am I missing? I think the difference is that a lot of "farmers" work outside the farm and just use the farm to write off expensive toys (trucks, side by sides, tractors, etc). Their profit motive is weak. When you have large Cat tractors that are upwards to $500K and seed, fertilizer, etc costs, not hard to have write-offs. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:28:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bill Gates is the largest single owner of farmland in the US. 242,000 acres. Owning farmland doesn't make one a farmer. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:30:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had two farmers tell me they couldn't afford to not buy a new truck. We used to write off mileage but haven't in a couple years. Not sure how that would work with the CPA if we triggered an audit. I expect they would stand behind their work but nothing about Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We are using exactly these kinds of strategies to limit our personal and business tax liabilities. I've had two farmers tell me they couldn't afford to not buy a new truck. We used to write off mileage but haven't in a couple years. Not sure how that would work with the CPA if we triggered an audit. I expect they would stand behind their work but nothing about The tax guy told my wife she had to spend a bunch of money this year or pay it in taxes. So, she bought a two year old Dodge Ram. He also told her to finance part of it, though she could pay cash. I don't understand it, but there it is. How far can you push it? Well, if you're worried about audits, your option is just to bend over for them. My wife takes every opportunity she can to show ranch property on horseback. Guess what gets written off? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:32:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Go here for actual costs
This sample shows the ranch losing $42000 on 227 calves. Click on cow/calf at the top right. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:33:22 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:33:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Owning farmland doesn't make one a farmer. Does the tax code know that? No, not really. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:34:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arthur Godfrey: "I'm proud to pay taxes in the United States; the only thing is, I could be just as proud for half the money." George Sutherland: "The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether to avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted." -Look at all the able bodied idle urban freeloaders. -Look at all the military equipment they just handed to the Taliban. -Look at all the Government bastards in DC enriching themselves. Do you think you OWE them a dime? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:34:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The tax guy told my wife she had to spend a bunch of money this year or pay it in taxes. So, she bought a two year old Dodge Ram. He also told her to finance part of it, though she could pay cash. I don't understand it, but there it is. How far can you push it? Well, if you're worried about audits, your option is just to bend over for them. My wife takes every opportunity she can to show ranch property on horseback. Guess what gets written off? Do you use the horses for anything else? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:34:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Warren and Howard Buffett And Jimmy. Don't forget Jimmy. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:35:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: -Look at all the Mexicans swarming in lining up for Free Shit. -Look at all the able bodied idle urban freeloaders. -Look at all the military equipment they just handed to the Taliban. -Look at all the Government bastards in DC enriching themselves. Do you think you OWE them a dime? All those farmers lined up too apparently. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:36:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you use the horses for anything else? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The tax guy told my wife she had to spend a bunch of money this year or pay it in taxes. So, she bought a two year old Dodge Ram. He also told her to finance part of it, though she could pay cash. I don't understand it, but there it is. How far can you push it? Well, if you're worried about audits, your option is just to bend over for them. My wife takes every opportunity she can to show ranch property on horseback. Guess what gets written off? Do you use the horses for anything else? Not today, Mr. Tax Man. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:37:40 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All those farmers lined up too apparently. Here are some differences: -THEY work for a living. -THEY have a right to be in this country. -THEY aren't Taliban, or thieving politicians. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:43:45 PM EDT
[#26]
I have a family member who built a beautiful house on a couple dozen acres - he planted a few dozen pine trees and has officially registered his home as a Christmas Tree farm zero maintenance and every 10 years or so (or however long it takes for a pine tree to grow into Christmas tree size) he hires someone to cut them down and sell them. If he makes a few dollars, great. If he doesn't, then he claims all as a loss. Writes off the new F350 and pays lower tax.
I need enough money to be able to hatch these kind of bullshit schemes up |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:45:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are some differences: -THEY work for a living. -THEY have a right to be in this country. -THEY aren't Taliban, or thieving politicians. The tax rate should be the tax rate. The way the Dems got taxes as high as they did was by carving out special cases for people so they’d resist attempts to lower taxes of it didn’t preserve some group or individuals favorite subsidy. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:45:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 114 acres of mountain side the county taxes as an "vacant farm" or something like that. Please teach me the ways of .gov farm cheese Christmas. Tree. Farm. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:46:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: haters gonna hate ..... go get you some land and do it too I know I've never met a "rich" farmer around here. Just good people getting by actually working their farms. Do you want to know how to make a million dollars farming? Start with two million. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 2:50:49 PM EDT
[#30]
If you're operating a farm, which generally requires the use of machinery that gets old or worn out over time, why would you prefer to pay taxes when the same money could be used to purchase newer machinery? There are years where you actually don't make enough money to afford new machinery, so when you do make enough money to afford to buy something, why wouldn't you do that?
Some folks are in a different situation, but that is how it generally works. New trucks, etc. work on the same principle. If it is something I can update, why wouldn't I when it might be several years before I could afford to again? Farming is just a business that functions similar to anything else. If you have the choice to pay taxes or invest in the business, you do whichever works better for your needs. I have known many farmers who buy a lot of new equipment, who had to slow down on their purchases when income dropped and cash got tight. Older equipment tends to break down more often, and some people prefer to keep rolling through new equipment as often as possible. Down time is a major issue when farming, so one strategy to address that is to keep new equipment. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:03:34 PM EDT
[#31]
[newspapercat'ishouldbuyanotherfarm']
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:10:53 PM EDT
[#32]
My grampa was a poor farmer all his life, and hated all the racketeering schemes. My gramma died under a hay wagon, pulling bales, at almost 80. They never had a spare cent until he sold the farm.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:17:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My grampa was a poor farmer all his life, and hated all the racketeering schemes. My gramma died under a hay wagon, pulling bales, at almost 80. They never had a spare cent until he sold the farm. Sounds like he left a lot of money on the table and worked far too long. Maybe should have taken some business classes. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:18:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now I understand what you're saying. So let's say I lived on 30 acres and have some apple trees on it. I should sell those apples each year under an LLC and then write off my night vision that I use to protect my crop? And the side by side I use to harvest them? Why didn't I think of this before, I makes so much sense now that you say it, but it never occurred to me before. NOW you're thinking. Ask your richest self-employed friend who their accountant and tax guy are and see if they'll take a meeting with you. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:19:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s fine on a personal level but it’s shit policy for a country. Taxes should be low, but uniformly set so that the government can pick favorites or change your behavior to match their goals any more than is necessary. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You say "tax reduction" like it was a bad thing. I will not pay a dime in taxes that I can avoid. That’s fine on a personal level but it’s shit policy for a country. Taxes should be low, but uniformly set so that the government can pick favorites or change your behavior to match their goals any more than is necessary. "Should" is the most empty, useless word in the English language. You're going to pay taxes or risk jail and asset seizure. Why would you not limit them as much as possible? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:19:13 PM EDT
[#36]
I have a pine tree farm in TN.
1/3 of it is planted pine trees, another 1/3 is farm land I lease out every year, the other 1/3 is for wooded deer/turkey hunting and dirt bike/sidexside trail riding. I don't pay taxes on anything I purchase for the farm, I get passive income, and value appreciation from land prices increasing and the trees maturing. I could lease the hunting part out for more passive income, but it's not worth it since I use it for myself and close friends. Is it a 'good' investment? Not really, due to big upfront cost, but the property has tripled in value since 2006 and gives me a little play money. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:20:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's almost like the system is set up to encourage small businesses. And I hope that continues. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wat? look at the median number......and that is the net profit on the schedule F So for example, let's say I have a cattle ranch. I sell enough F1 steers to get a check for $250,000 I have normal expenses for the year like feed, meds, fuckin bull tore up the fence again, fuel, oil, etc. That adds up to $50,000 so now I have a NOI of $200,000. Well looks like I need a new F250 and a new tractor. That's $200,000 section 179 it and thus 0 income. It's almost like the system is set up to encourage small businesses. And I hope that continues. Small farmers are decreasing year by year. And if you think they government encourages small businesses, look again. Unless you are the right TYPE. Then the money faucet is open. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:21:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: haters gonna hate ..... go get you some land and do it too I know I've never met a "rich" farmer around here. Just good people getting by actually working their farms. Ever notice how people tend to romanticize the things they like or understand? No, you probably don't. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:22:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thought it was well known ‘tree farms’ were always a big tax write off. best tree farmer there ever was on this side of the Rockies was Julien Watson. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:22:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know half a dozen guys who have "Farm" tags on their brand new brodozers. All their trucks are pavement princesses and I guaran-damn-tee you those Blake Shelton looking motherfuckers haven't planted 3 kernels of corn put together. I don't know what it takes to get your property classified as a "farm" but from what I've seen it's just something the semi-rich do to get extra tax cuts. They're all the "daddy's money" types who have family businesses that aren't farm related like car dealerships, construction, commercial property development, etc. Sounds highly preferable to actually having to be a farmer. Much respect to them, but they work WAY too hard. Also, can I get the tax breaks without dressing up like Blake Shelton? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:23:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this really news to anyone? If you're not a mega farm most of them do it as a hobby to rake in the sweet gov cash, it's just another form of welfare. There's a small subset of boutique farmers market type operations but that's small in comparison If they didn't image the cost of imported food. And forget about fresh milk and eggs. My buddy owns a dairy farm and drives a new F350, I see what he does and fuck that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:25:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What did he do? I'm guessing that he was baited by some of the newer members who might fit in a little better at DU. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Too bad Tactical Garand is in ARFCOM jail. He would have lots of input on this. What did he do? I'm guessing that he was baited by some of the newer members who might fit in a little better at DU. In my perfect world anyone who baits anyone else should not have recourse for the consequences. Real world or virtual. I got an account warning for telling someone to ask his mom if he needed confirmation I wasn't gay, AFTER he called me a faggot. The rules around here are starting to resemble a public school staffed by fat 25 year old White chicks who celebrate Kwanzaa. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:25:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disneyworld is listed as agricultural land. Do they grow some stuff and have cattletechnically yes. Is that why they list themselves that way, no. Tax breaks baby. Tax breaks are awesome. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:25:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have two farms that are leased for farm, ranch and wind power. I married into it and am not involved but it seems like a huge scam. It makes maybe a little money yet shows as a loss. There’s a rent house involved and maybe 1100 acres. The government pays the farm, the farm pays the government, and we cut a big check to the accountants every year. Only time it seemed like an honest deal is when we had it leased for oil exploration. They should pay more taxes on purpose? Because the money would be so well spent? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:26:51 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't forget that thermal and night vision to protect the crops and livestock. It's a vital expense. Does your land get a lot of sun on the rock faces? Biden might well legalize weed federally if the election looks iffy. If your state's into that kind of thing. |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:28:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's wrong with having some land and using it as a tax shelter? Fuck the thieving government and their relentless taxation of everything. They created these tax havens, they can fuck off. Never said it was wrong...you must have missed my post where I said I wanted to do it also
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:28:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ugh, Midcap thread. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/114465/troll-1532605_jpg-2137012.JPG ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:28:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Good for them.
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:29:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 114 acres of mountain side the county taxes as an "vacant farm" or something like that. Please teach me the ways of .gov farm cheese @maddmatt? You lease it to hunt? |
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Posted: 10/20/2021 3:30:38 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: usually you got to be able to sell your harvest i n order to qualify for farm status property tax exemptions. not sure if you just need to show revenues or need to be profitable too I am sure I can get top dollar for my casa banananas |
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