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I'd always heard that the "ship moving sideways when the big guns were fired" thing was a myth, but looking at your picture, the turbulence at the knife edge of the fo'castle looks like evidence that it is not. It's myth. What you're seeing is the water being disturbed by the outgoing rounds. |
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I remember that incident when there was the explosion in one of those turrets (in the 80s I believe). Initially they tried to blame it on one of the sailors (suicide attempt pehaps?) but later I think determined some of the gun powder bags exploded. Here is a Japanese video showing the explosion. Those people who think the U.S. Military is above reproach and criticism should read about the cover up the U.S. Navy tried to pull. |
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I remember that incident when there was the explosion in one of those turrets (in the 80s I believe). Initially they tried to blame it on one of the sailors (suicide attempt pehaps?) but later I think determined some of the gun powder bags exploded. Here is a Japanese video showing the explosion. The Navy F'd up with the cover up epic proportions that they cooked up with that. Blamed it on a Sailor and said it was a homosexual lovers quarrel. Washed everything out of the gun turret, threw pieces of the gun overboard amongst other items from the turret. The powder flats were flooded and the men down there died from gas poisoning and fire. It was quite the debacle. My Grandfather had NIS visit him at his home over the ordeal because he retired less than a year before it happened. He knew all of the men in the turret and it deeply upset him with what went on. He always said he knew from day one what happened and how. After it was all said and done, he was right. They had used powder that he knew wasn't any good. It had sat in a magazine that had no temp controls and became unstable over time in the heat. Reports said that some of the last things that were heard over the sound powered phones were, " Oh my God, the bags are glowing" and "Get out". I couldn't imagine. My paw paw on the far right. He wasn't very photogenic. http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg538/joecoastie99/pawpaw.jpeg Damn. |
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Love the big ship guns..but nothing quite like Atomic Annie!(poor guinea pigs in the trench!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2RO6lo84Hc
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http://www.nps.gov/goga/historyculture/new-gun.htm New Gun for Battery Townsleyhttp://www.nps.gov/goga/images/banner-gun-photo.jpg A 16-inch gun barrel being moved through San Francisco, circa 1939. PARC, GGNRA It's huge, it's heavy, and it's historic!
On October 1, 2012, a 16-inch naval gun was transported to Fort Cronkhite for display at Battery Townsley. The giant weapon, 68 feet long and weighing 120 tons, was once on the battleship USS Missouri and is identical in size and caliber to the ones that protected the bay during World War II.
The gun is now displayed outside Battery Townsley, while plans are developed to fabricate a replica gun carriage inside the casemate (south gun room).
The 16-inch gun barrel, designated U.S. Navy Mark VII #386, is a key interpretive feature of Fort Cronkhite, helping tell the stories of Battery Townsley and the men who served here and at the other harbor defense sites during World War II, as well as the military's role in preserving the future Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
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16-inch gun #386 aboard USS MISSOURI during the Japanese surrender ceremonies in Tokyo Bay, 2 September 1945. The barrel was removed from the battleship turret during the Korean War and put into storage. Kind of off topic, but the larger ship in the background in USS Ancon. My Grandfather was on board that day. He saw the whole war from Operation Torch to the signing of the surrender. |
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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18125605.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18131409.jpg I keep wanting to go see the Alabama in person. It's less than an hour away. Its awesome. Future GTG? Im about an hour the other way. |
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I always wondered how much trouble/what kind of task was involved with unloading a shell from the barrel. I mean, you're engaging a target, you load/reload several times, and finally are told to stand down. You've got to have several barrels loaded at that point that need to be made safe.... And then you've got the rotator band engaging the rifling, I know it's got to be snug. The only to get the shell out it to shoot it out once it's in the barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: you're [snip] So I missed one detail, about the Shimano. It has been a little while (several months at least) since I last read up on the BBs and their armor. Sorry if I failed to hold up to your standards of perfection. Oh...welcome to my ignore list. Out of a membership of about 200,000 on this site, you join the company of just five others that I find to be insufferable and beneath my dignity to respond to further. |
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If you're ever in Troy NY go across the river to the Watervliet Arsenal. They make these barrels there and have a nice little museum to boot. I believe they're the only arsenal left that does this size barrel.
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http://www.nps.gov/goga/historyculture/new-gun.htm New Gun for Battery Townsleyhttp://www.nps.gov/goga/images/banner-gun-photo.jpg A 16-inch gun barrel being moved through San Francisco, circa 1939. PARC, GGNRA It's huge, it's heavy, and it's historic!
On October 1, 2012, a 16-inch naval gun was transported to Fort Cronkhite for display at Battery Townsley. The giant weapon, 68 feet long and weighing 120 tons, was once on the battleship USS Missouri and is identical in size and caliber to the ones that protected the bay during World War II.
The gun is now displayed outside Battery Townsley, while plans are developed to fabricate a replica gun carriage inside the casemate (south gun room).
The 16-inch gun barrel, designated U.S. Navy Mark VII #386, is a key interpretive feature of Fort Cronkhite, helping tell the stories of Battery Townsley and the men who served here and at the other harbor defense sites during World War II, as well as the military's role in preserving the future Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
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16-inch gun #386 aboard USS MISSOURI during the Japanese surrender ceremonies in Tokyo Bay, 2 September 1945. The barrel was removed from the battleship turret during the Korean War and put into storage. Kind of off topic, but the larger ship in the background in USS Ancon. My Grandfather was on board that day. He saw the whole war from Operation Torch to the signing of the surrender. Ancon also at Omaha on D-Day as flagship. Was a passener/cargo running to Panama. WWI USS Ancon was first to transit Panama Canal. |
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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18125605.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18131409.jpg I keep wanting to go see the Alabama in person. It's less than an hour away. Just do it!! I was there about a year ago.It's IMPRESSIVE!! There is also a SMALL aircraft museum that has some very interesting displays,including a YF-12. It's very easy access from Interstate 10 http://www.ussalabama.com/visitor_info.php |
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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18125605.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18131409.jpg I keep wanting to go see the Alabama in person. It's less than an hour away. Its awesome. Future GTG? Im about an hour the other way. Sounds like a possibility if I ever get some spare time. IM? |
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I have always been amazed that the turrets never were attached to the ship but merely rested in the ring with gravity.
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http://www.nps.gov/goga/historyculture/new-gun.htm New Gun for Battery Townsleyhttp://www.nps.gov/goga/images/banner-gun-photo.jpg A 16-inch gun barrel being moved through San Francisco, circa 1939. PARC, GGNRA It's huge, it's heavy, and it's historic!
On October 1, 2012, a 16-inch naval gun was transported to Fort Cronkhite for display at Battery Townsley. The giant weapon, 68 feet long and weighing 120 tons, was once on the battleship USS Missouri and is identical in size and caliber to the ones that protected the bay during World War II.
The gun is now displayed outside Battery Townsley, while plans are developed to fabricate a replica gun carriage inside the casemate (south gun room).
The 16-inch gun barrel, designated U.S. Navy Mark VII #386, is a key interpretive feature of Fort Cronkhite, helping tell the stories of Battery Townsley and the men who served here and at the other harbor defense sites during World War II, as well as the military's role in preserving the future Golden Gate National Recreation Area.
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16-inch gun #386 aboard USS MISSOURI during the Japanese surrender ceremonies in Tokyo Bay, 2 September 1945. The barrel was removed from the battleship turret during the Korean War and put into storage. Kind of off topic, but the larger ship in the background in USS Ancon. My Grandfather was on board that day. He saw the whole war from Operation Torch to the signing of the surrender. Ancon also at Omaha on D-Day as flagship. Was a passener/cargo running to Panama. WWI USS Ancon was first to transit Panama Canal. Yep, my Grandpa told me about the ME 109s flying right over his ship on D-Day, he said everybody with a gun was shooting at them, even the guys on the landing craft. Ancon was also at Sicily, Italy, and Okinawa. If Yamato wouldn't have been stopped on her 1 way trip to the allied beachhead, I probably wouldn't be here. That thing would have been bad news in the middle of a landing force. I gave the eulogy for his wife, my Grandmother, last Saturday. They got married during the war, when Ancon was overhauled after the Normandy Invasion. He had a few weeks off, then when through the canal and into the Pacific. |
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The AP shells were explosive. They were designed to penetrate and then explode a fraction of a second after initial impact. During the Vietnam war, a tactic against pillboxes was to drop an AP shell a little short of the target. It then burrowed into the ground and exploded under the pillbox.
The Arizona was destroyed by a modified AP shell dropped by a plane flying some 10,000 feet above the ship. |
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http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18125605.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o184/SWINGRRRR/2012-07-18131409.jpg I keep wanting to go see the Alabama in person. It's less than an hour away. Just do it!! I was there about a year ago.It's IMPRESSIVE!! There is also a SMALL aircraft museum that has some very interesting displays,including a YF-12. It's very easy access from Interstate 10 http://www.ussalabama.com/visitor_info.php Easy access from the bay too! |
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Quoted: I have always been amazed that the turrets never were attached to the ship but merely rested in the ring with gravity. Well, fully equipped, they only weigh about 2100 tons each. How much more retaining force do they need? The only time they'd come out is if lifted out in drydock or if the ship flipped over, in which case not only does it probably not matter, but in that situation, if the ship were to shed 6300 tons (all three turrets) then it might float longer, allowing more crewmen to get out and survive. I don't think it was deemed necessary to bolt the turrets in. The greater challenge would be, how do you built such a large and heavy structure in such a way that it can be accurately and reliably turned in its mounts? |
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Were the Japanese Yamato type BB's technically superior to the Ohio's? I know they had bigger guns but how did the rest of the specs and steel quality stack up?
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They used to make those shells not far from here at Mcalaster ammunition plant. When I was a kid I would see truckloads of them going down the hiway in front of our house.
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Quoted: Were the Japanese Yamato type BB's technically superior to the Ohio's? I know they had bigger guns but how did the rest of the specs and steel quality stack up? http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-040.htm This is an interesting read that will answer some of your questions. In short, the Japanese were capable of making excellent armor plate but they had not as of WWII mastered the art of making top quality armor in very high thicknesses. So the turret armor plating on the Yamato class ships was not as good as it could have been. CJ |
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Were the Japanese Yamato type BB's technically superior to the Ohio's? I know they had bigger guns but how did the rest of the specs and steel quality stack up? http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-040.htm This is an interesting read that will answer some of your questions. In short, the Japanese were capable of making excellent armor plate but they had not as of WWII mastered the art of making top quality armor in very high thicknesses. So the turret armor plating on the Yamato class ships was not as good as it could have been. CJ Very interesting, expecially the last line. Thanks. |
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I had the pleasure of touring the North Carolina when I was in Wilmington.I got to go inside a turret.Holy fuck is it cramped!I can't even imagine being in there during firing.Claustrophobic as hell. I felt the same on the Alabama. |
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Quoted: and could launch 1,900 pound high explosive (or nuclear) projectile at 2700 fps, hitting targets 24 miles away. If my calculations are correct, that's 235,000,000 ft-lbs of energy. |
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Quoted: The AP shells were explosive. They were designed to penetrate and then explode a fraction of a second after initial impact. During the Vietnam war, a tactic against pillboxes was to drop an AP shell a little short of the target. It then burrowed into the ground and exploded under the pillbox. The Arizona was destroyed by a modified AP shell dropped by a plane flying some 10,000 feet above the ship. SOME AP shells may have been explosive, but they fired non-explosive AP shells as well. In the article I posted a few posts above this reply, it mentions using AP shells to test Japanese armor, and the rounds were undamaged except for windscreen damage even after passing through 24 inches of steel. Clearly that was not an explosive round. |
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The AP shells were explosive. They were designed to penetrate and then explode a fraction of a second after initial impact. During the Vietnam war, a tactic against pillboxes was to drop an AP shell a little short of the target. It then burrowed into the ground and exploded under the pillbox. The Arizona was destroyed by a modified AP shell dropped by a plane flying some 10,000 feet above the ship. SOME AP shells may have been explosive, but they fired non-explosive AP shells as well. In the article I posted a few posts above this reply, it mentions using AP shells to test Japanese armor, and the rounds were undamaged except for windscreen damage even after passing through 24 inches of steel. Clearly that was not an explosive round. Test rounds would not have been. Warshots were. |
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I have always been amazed that the turrets never were attached to the ship but merely rested in the ring with gravity. I think there are clips on the Iowas to secure the turrets to their foundations. When they would ever come into play is a mystery to me. Someone else asked about removing a shell once rammed. I don't know what the practice was on the Iowas, but I have a book about the USS Ariizona that describes elevating the mount and repeatedly slugging the shell with a weight. This may have been only for training but there it is. A good site for those interested in these guns is www.navweaps.com |
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The AP shells were explosive. They were designed to penetrate and then explode a fraction of a second after initial impact. During the Vietnam war, a tactic against pillboxes was to drop an AP shell a little short of the target. It then burrowed into the ground and exploded under the pillbox. Don't know if that would really work, AP rounds had very little explosives, and HC round would have buried itself prior to detonating and may be more likely to have that effect. |
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Bring back the Battleship! No. Just no. Just begin. |
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If any of you have the opportunity, I highly recommend both the USS NC and USS AL. Both allow you to go below deck, and inside the turrets.
I visited the Mighty MO when she was in mothballs at Bremerton WA when I was probably seven, but you couldn't do anything but walk around on the deck as everything was sealed up. There was a big plaque on the deck where the Japs signed their surrender. When the USS WI was recommissioned in the '80s, a surplus store in San Jose had somehow ended up with a crate of NOS WWII M1 steel helmets that had been in the hold of the ship since she was last put away. All had khaki chin straps sewn to the helmet bails, and I purchased three of them. They had never seen the light of day. The crate was marked with the ships name. I wish I had purchased the whole thing at $10.00 per helmet. |
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I always wondered how much trouble/what kind of task was involved with unloading a shell from the barrel. I mean, you're engaging a target, you load/reload several times, and finally are told to stand down. You've got to have several barrels loaded at that point that need to be made safe.... And then you've got the rotator band engaging the rifling, I know it's got to be snug. The only to get the shell out it to shoot it out once it's in the barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is from very long memory, but when I first read about the explosion in that gun turret, they said something about putting a special oil down the barrel to remove a rammed round. Maybe someone that knows can tell us. (Dport?) |
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There's a long Wiki article about the Iowa turret explosion and the circumstances surrounding it.
In that article, it describes the use of Break Free in the bore of the gun to help unstick the projectile, which was carefully examined. I just read that today. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bring back the Battleship! No. Just no. Just begin. Aye Gunny. Requesting Mast, Gunny! |
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1588 Spanish Armada vs. an Iowa class battleship. Who wins? I am pretty sure I could win that one without a shot. "Ramming Speed" Spanaish Armada versus Taffy 3? |
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The AP shells were explosive. They were designed to penetrate and then explode a fraction of a second after initial impact. During the Vietnam war, a tactic against pillboxes was to drop an AP shell a little short of the target. It then burrowed into the ground and exploded under the pillbox. The Arizona was destroyed by a modified AP shell dropped by a plane flying some 10,000 feet above the ship. SOME AP shells may have been explosive, but they fired non-explosive AP shells as well. In the article I posted a few posts above this reply, it mentions using AP shells to test Japanese armor, and the rounds were undamaged except for windscreen damage even after passing through 24 inches of steel. Clearly that was not an explosive round. Test rounds would not have been. Warshots were. Those armor test plates are sitting down by the river on display in the Washington Navy Yard, aren't they? |
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EOD has procedures for removing a stuck round out of a 16 inch gun. It involves a lot of water and a pretty hefty explosive charge.
60A-X-X-XX |
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I was on the ground when my infantry battalion was trying to take a hill called Chop Vum west of Tam Ky, Vietnam. The hill was occupied by a large force of unknown size of NVA.
The hill had a very thick cap of granite and the NVA had undercut positions into the mountain under the cap. It was a bad scene for us with well prepared and well thought out defensive positions all around the base. We had 2 days of airstikes on the positions with little effect. Spooky was flying over all the hours of darkness. I went 72 hours with absolutely no sleep and little food and water. I guess what I am trying to explain is that it was very unpleasant. On the 3rd day the New Jersey pulled up off shore and began shelling. The comparatively flat trajectory of the 16 incher was just about ideal for sealing up those caves in that mountain. After several rounds of the big stuff our guys were able get up to the caves and blast them out. If you think the sight of the guns firing is impressive, you should hear the shell going over and impacting into a mountain near you. |
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I remember that incident when there was the explosion in one of those turrets (in the 80s I believe). Initially they tried to blame it on one of the sailors (suicide attempt pehaps?) but later I think determined some of the gun powder bags exploded. Here is a Japanese video showing the explosion. My father was on board the ship when this happened. He was part of the RPV team. From what his brothers tell me was that he assisted in the effort to put the fire out and drag bodies out. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'd always heard that the "ship moving sideways when the big guns were fired" thing was a myth, but looking at your picture, the turbulence at the knife edge of the fo'castle looks like evidence that it is not. It's myth. What you're seeing is the water being disturbed by the outgoing rounds. Ahh. I see. Thank you. |
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I have always been amazed that the turrets never were attached to the ship but merely rested in the ring with gravity. I think there are clips on the Iowas to secure the turrets to their foundations. When they would ever come into play is a mystery to me. Someone else asked about removing a shell once rammed. I don't know what the practice was on the Iowas, but I have a book about the USS Ariizona that describes elevating the mount and repeatedly slugging the shell with a weight. This may have been only for training but there it is. A good site for those interested in these guns is www.navweaps.com I would think if the seas got rough enough it might cause them to lift out a bit. I would also think the falling back down part could cause some damage like brinelling what every they are turning on. |
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I always wondered how much trouble/what kind of task was involved with unloading a shell from the barrel. I mean, you're engaging a target, you load/reload several times, and finally are told to stand down. You've got to have several barrels loaded at that point that need to be made safe.... And then you've got the rotator band engaging the rifling, I know it's got to be snug. The only to get the shell out it to shoot it out once it's in the barrel. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is from very long memory, but when I first read about the explosion in that gun turret, they said something about putting a special oil down the barrel to remove a rammed round. Maybe someone that knows can tell us. (Dport?) No idea. I know I wouldn't want the job! I have images of Bugs Bunny hitting shells with a hammer and writing "Dud" on the side. |
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