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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:26:42 PM EST
[#1]
The saw is good, but its not built with how the military expects belt feds to be treated. The fleet needs a refresh every decade or so to maintain adequate reliability. The Magwell was also a terrible idea. Hopefully the 250 holds up better because dropping 5 lbs off and picking up crazy performance is ideal for dismounted units is a win.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:27:02 PM EST
[#2]
Want
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:27:13 PM EST
[#3]
Quoted: For folks that didn't get a chance to play with them and rely on those who did to determine it's awesomeness...you will hear lies. 99% of them come down to lazy infantrymen unwilling to pack the extra weight (the same losers that ditch their 60mm rounds on the march). It isn't a 240 by any means but it is so much better than an M4 for area fire and suppression that it isn't even comparable. I have carried both. The SAW is the best thing that ever happened to the fire team since the smoke grenade. Fight me. When it works.. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:27:38 PM EST
[#4]
The ones I used in the 82nd were beat. Constant jams.
In the 25th we got brand new ones and those were pretty cool. You could really ruin someone’s day with UTM rounds through one. It would have been a lot better without the magwell. Always got links or brass or whatever stuck in there and causing jams. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:27:49 PM EST
[#5]
I would not argue that my ar is better if confronted by one...
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:27:56 PM EST
[#6]
Yes ! Everyone should have at least one .
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:28:49 PM EST
[#7]
I never had a problem with mine. Lots of guys would bitch about them not being reliable. Most were either guys who were just repeating what they had heard, and others were guys who didn't take care of them.
200rd drum dumps will make even the grumpiest infantryman crack a smile. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:29:12 PM EST
[#8]
First guy I ever saw killed online was from two 3rd bursts from a m249. Blew my mind when I read the gunner was over 100yds away from the RPG dude, making accurate hits with a machine gun.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:30:35 PM EST
[#9]
I have a few photos of me firing one off the deck of a ship. It was a hoot.
There's one in this photo. It's not mine, but the owner (SOT) let me fire it.  
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:33:29 PM EST
[#10]
I liked the one I had….
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:33:46 PM EST
[#11]
OP is spot on. Properly maintained, the 249 is a life altering tool in a near ambush!
18Z50 |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:34:12 PM EST
[#12]
MK 46 beats the 249 all day erday.
I have used both for work. 249 is pretty good doe |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:36:56 PM EST
[#13]
My unit ran a qual with magazines ( leadership didn't understand the STRAC and why we had 14k rounds of M855A1 on clips and zero linked ammo )
So I convinced them to run the qual with magazines. Ran 12 SAWS with zero malfs with magazines. Mix of old ass USGI mags with black, green and tan followers as well as some soldier's personal PMAGS. Not one failure to feed. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:39:59 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My unit ran a qual with magazines ( leadership didn't understand the STRAC and why we had 14k rounds of M855A1 on clips and zero linked ammo ) So I convinced them to run the qual with magazines. Ran 12 SAWS with zero malfs with magazines. Mix of old ass USGI mags with black, green and tan followers as well as some soldier's personal PMAGS. Not one failure to feed. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:42:06 PM EST
[#15]
in decent condition : absolutely no question
don't know that it would be the preferred weapon in a CQB type environment was OIC of a SAW range once in the 25th when we happened to have a couple thousand rounds left over at the end of the training.  good times |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 12:58:02 PM EST
[#16]
Did it give the fireteam a higher volume of fire? Yes, absolutely. And if you were strictly conducting defensive or vehicle ops, then it is a great option.
But you also severely limited the movement of one of your four members. You had to train that person differently, equip that person differently. And at the end of the day, you were still slinging 5.56 at the problem. I think there might be a greater argument for a 6mm ARC DMR role in the fireteam with a 1-8 variable. Now one person has a similar weapon but gains 3-400 yards in terms of max effective range, while still generally being able to conduct core infantry tasks. It isn't black or white (like getting rid of tanks, without a viable replacement for the associated firepower). But I think history will prove that the SAW wasn't enough additional firepower to justify the costs in weight/mobility. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:00:43 PM EST
[#17]
I did get the SAW to feed 100% from brand new mags. I think Lot of the bad rap the SAW has received has been from end users (looking at you USMC) being issued clapped out rattle traps with worn parts.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:02:43 PM EST
[#18]
I hear it's great for what it's meant to do, as long as it's maintained.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:07:16 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP is spot on. Properly maintained, the 249 is a life altering tool in a near ambush! 18Z50 This is my take too….I watched an almost brand new one basically start a mini-forest fire during a training exercise once because it actually fed blanks properly….the barrel was so hot we could essentially use it to bound through our objective at EENT…man, that was a hoot…good time, good times |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:08:07 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hear it's great for what it's meant to do, as long as it's maintained. And its new......like the M60 when it gets old and beat to hell its worthless. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:08:45 PM EST
[#21]
I loved mine in the Corps!
The semi version from FN even worked well with the mags and I kick myself for not buying the demo gun they sent me at times. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:10:20 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When it works.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For folks that didn't get a chance to play with them and rely on those who did to determine it's awesomeness...you will hear lies. 99% of them come down to lazy infantrymen unwilling to pack the extra weight (the same losers that ditch their 60mm rounds on the march). It isn't a 240 by any means but it is so much better than an M4 for area fire and suppression that it isn't even comparable. I have carried both. The SAW is the best thing that ever happened to the fire team since the smoke grenade. Fight me. When it works.. Please tell us more about your hands on experience with the SAW. @Dragoth-Ur |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:17:17 PM EST
[#23]
I was the happy carrier of a SAW in Iraq. Suppressing fire is always a hoot. Well worth the burden of carrying the weight extra ammo.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:17:29 PM EST
[#24]
Quoted: For folks that didn't get a chance to play with them and rely on those who did to determine it's awesomeness...you will hear lies. 99% of them come down to lazy infantrymen unwilling to pack the extra weight (the same losers that ditch their 60mm rounds on the march). It isn't a 240 by any means but it is so much better than an M4 for area fire and suppression that it isn't even comparable. I have carried both. The SAW is the best thing that ever happened to the fire team since the smoke grenade. Fight me. Mine folded rounds in half at the worst possible times. I had the pre heat shield and straight almost wire looking stock model. When they gave me a brand new one I liked it. Not loved it. Heat shield and oil buffer I was happy again. I did miss the gas adjustment though |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:18:44 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP is spot on. Properly maintained, the 249 is a life altering tool in a near ambush! 18Z50 Also helps if it's not one that should have been DXed years prior |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:23:05 PM EST
[#26]
I miss mine. I don't miss carrying it on road marches, but I do miss shooting it. Some of ours were pretty beat up and didn't run well, but most of them did. Our armorer did his best.
OP, never heard of or saw anyone ditching mortar rounds. That would've got someone beat to shit. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:23:37 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And it's new......like the M60 when it gets old and beat to hell it's worthless. You don't don't have an irreparable M249 or M60 until you wear the receiver out (and even then, it could be repaired, but DoD doesn't bother). Lots of users talk about misfeeds that crush cases and mangle links in the M249. That's from a weak recoil spring. Easily replaced. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:24:01 PM EST
[#28]
The military expects things to go ridiculous amounts of time on deferred maintenance then acts surprised when it doesn't hold up. Manufactures build to the specs the military request, they give service recommendations on that equipment, then the .gov completely ignores those recommendations. After 20-30 years the decide they to replace said equipment because it's falling apart, only to repeat the cycle with the next piece. It's completely asinine.
I have no doubt that the SAW, M9, Hmmwv, etc are all fines pieces of kit when properly serviced. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:24:05 PM EST
[#29]
I carried one when my unit got deployed for OIF3. I thought it was way cool, but last belt fed I got to mess with was the M60s while I was in the Corps.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:25:44 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ones I used in the 82nd were beat. Constant jams. In the 25th we got brand new ones and those were pretty cool. You could really ruin someone’s day with UTM rounds through one. It would have been a lot better without the magwell. Always got links or brass or whatever stuck in there and causing jams. Mk 46 
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:25:51 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I miss mine. I don't miss carrying it on road marches, but I do miss shooting it. Some of ours were pretty beat up and didn't run well, but most of them did. Our armorer did his best. OP, never heard of or saw anyone ditching mortar rounds. That would've got someone beat to shit. Yeah this. All that shit was accounted for. I like shooting the SAW. Long range patrolling and jumping it not o much |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:28:12 PM EST
[#32]
OP fucking nailed it ! I humped one in Afghanistan and I wouldn't have traded it for anything .
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:28:39 PM EST
[#33]
All belt-fed machine guns have an inherent design flaw of the metal receivers stretching out until they're no longer usable and need to be completely replaced. Something to always keep in mind, no matter how cool the brrrrrrrrrrrrrrt is
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:31:48 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would have been a lot better without the magwell. Always got links or brass or whatever stuck in there and causing jams. I've been dogpiled by douchebags on this site for saying that. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:32:14 PM EST
[#35]
Downtown 3 is in position. Downtown 3 approves this thread.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:33:03 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never had a problem with mine. Lots of guys would bitch about them not being reliable. Most were either guys who were just repeating what they had heard, and others were guys who didn't take care of them. 200rd drum dumps will make even the grumpiest infantryman crack a smile. Yup. Unless you had parts that were worn out of spec, proper maintenance and a little forethought went a LONG way. I had to treat it like an M60, but she danced when I asked.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:33:09 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine folded rounds in half at the worst possible times. I had ye pre heat shield and straight almost wire looking stock model. When they gave me a brand new one I liked it. Not loved it. Heat shield and oil buffer I was happy again. I did miss the gas adjustment though Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For folks that didn't get a chance to play with them and rely on those who did to determine it's awesomeness...you will hear lies. 99% of them come down to lazy infantrymen unwilling to pack the extra weight (the same losers that ditch their 60mm rounds on the march). It isn't a 240 by any means but it is so much better than an M4 for area fire and suppression that it isn't even comparable. I have carried both. The SAW is the best thing that ever happened to the fire team since the smoke grenade. Fight me. Mine folded rounds in half at the worst possible times. I had ye pre heat shield and straight almost wire looking stock model. When they gave me a brand new one I liked it. Not loved it. Heat shield and oil buffer I was happy again. I did miss the gas adjustment though Mine was admittedly new. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:33:35 PM EST
[#38]
I never had issues with my Para and I humped it around Afghanistan for 12 months and used it almost daily in gun fights around RC South Kandahar.
I don't even know how many rounds I fired but probably in the hundreds of thousands all said and done - and she kept on tickin'. She was my baby and I made sure she was well maintained and she took care of me when I needed her. Didn't love carrying 1200 rounds of ammo plus all my gear since we don't get an ammo bitch like the 240 gun teams get. Don't get me wrong, I've also seen my share of dog shit ones that were mistreated or needed to be junked that couldn't feed 20 rounds before jamming. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:34:14 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I miss mine. I don't miss carrying it on road marches, but I do miss shooting it. Some of ours were pretty beat up and didn't run well, but most of them did. Our armorer did his best. OP, never heard of or saw anyone ditching mortar rounds. That would've got someone beat to shit. My kid’s a Charlie. You should hear his tales of the bravos. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:34:18 PM EST
[#40]
M60 master race checking in!
.......I'm old as fuck
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:38:02 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did get the SAW to feed 100% from brand new mags. I think Lot of the bad rap the SAW has received has been from end users (looking at you USMC) being issued clapped out rattle traps with worn parts. Worn out and/or poorly maintained was definitely a problem with some of the SAWs I saw in the suck. Also I think a lot of people's negativity about the SAW comes from the majority of their SAW experience being shooting blanks and the problems with those and not much time shooting live rounds which happens in a lot of the support type units. We had some brand new out of the wrapper "para" SAWs in one unit I was in and those things ran like raped apes from what I SAW. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:43:55 PM EST
[#42]
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:46:13 PM EST
[#43]
I loved carrying it, very accurate and reliable, for me.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:56:52 PM EST
[#44]
What was the comparison that came from one of the other arfcomers, something along the lines of
The M249 is the hot girl out of your league. High maintenance and have to treat her right to get her to put out The M240 is the old whore, as long as you feed her she’ll put out every time. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:57:05 PM EST
[#45]
It was the 80%+ solution. Not perfect, but not terrible either; 10,000 x better than a rifleman issued the cheap, stamped, spring loaded folding bipod for his M16A1 and then called an “automatic rifleman” out of desperation.
Not sure the USMC didn’t make a mistake replacing it with the mag fed M27, but I guess we’ll see. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 2:10:26 PM EST
[#46]
Are there alternatives to the m249 that can be produced and fielded in large Number? Were there in the 1980s?
I think It Is as good as a m16a2 Is good as a line infantry rifle. The saw concept was good and It brought much needed FirePower to the small fire team. The m249 was the result of those requirements and i don't think there were alternatives at the time. It works, but It definitely Need proper maintenance and they get worn more than the rifle due to the volume of Fire. I fired and for a very Little time carried both the Classic long One and the para type with tubular stock, with rails and M4 type stock privately purchased from eBay, go figure. It Is not a light weapon and not comfortable with the tubular para stock, i never used It but i think the mk46 May handle Better and removing the whole magazine feed system should remove a good chunk of weight I never used It, but i Heard from former colleagues that IDF Negev Is an outstanding weapon I fired the spanish miniaturized mg42 and to me It Is a good weapon too, Maybe It Is Just the nostalgia factor and the fact that we had held our mg42/59 in High regard and the AMELI looks identical. The Germans at the time had nothing more than G36s with snail magazines (which i fired) that were definitely not suitable for SAW TTPs. Anedocte: the m249 was the culprit because many italians, me included, didn't manage to get the EIB during joint trainings because our manual of arms for the m249 was slightly different than the US one and we always did something in the wrong order, failing |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 2:15:02 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are there alternatives to the m249 that can be produced and fielded in large Number? Were there in the 1980s? I think It Is as good as a m16a2 Is good as a line infantry rifle. The saw concept was good and It brought much needed FirePower to the small fire team. The m249 was the result of those requirements and i don't think there were alternatives at the time. It works, but It definitely Need proper maintenance and they get worn more than the rifle due to the volume of Fire. I fired and for a very Little time carried both the Classic long One and the para type with tubular stock, with rails and M4 type stock privately purchased from eBay, go figure. It Is not a light weapon and not comfortable with the tubular para stock, i never used It but i think the mk46 May handle Better and removing the whole magazine feed system should remove a good chunk of weight I never used It, but i Heard from former colleagues that IDF Negev Is an outstanding weapon I fired the spanish miniaturized mg42 and to me It Is a good weapon too, Maybe It Is Just the nostalgia factor and the fact that we had held our mg42/59 in High regard and the AMELI looks identical. The Germans at the time had nothing more than G36s with snail magazines (which i fired) that were definitely not suitable for SAW TTPs. Anedocte: the m249 was the culprit because many italians, me included, didn't manage to get the EIB during joint trainings because our manual of arms for the m249 was slightly different than the US one and we always did something in the wrong order, failing You are a go at this station. Preceded by a no. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 2:27:12 PM EST
[#48]
KAC LWMG > MK46 > 249
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Posted: 2/15/2024 2:32:25 PM EST
[#49]
I always liked our MK46s, except humping the extra nutsacks. The SAWs we trained with in RTB were all run down, and very prone to various issues-mostly from blanks. The MK46s we took on deployment were tits.
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Posted: 2/15/2024 2:57:13 PM EST
[#50]
Mine sucked. Wouldn't run right with belt or mag. Pretty sure it was the first SAW ever made, it had some features that no other SAW in the company had. Ejection port cover was shaped different for one. And then one time the grip bolt hole stripped out and deadlined it forever. Good riddance, I hated that fucking thing.
Got in a firefight once in Mosul and it kachunked every other round. I had the only bolt action SAW in the country. Great timing. And don't tell me I didn't maintain that piece of shit either. I maintained the shit out of it. |
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