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Posted: 1/21/2014 4:53:19 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 1/21/2014 4:56:01 AM EDT
[#2]
If you are really worried about distance, why not just use 40mm? I know it doesn't frag as much, but still...
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:05:07 AM EDT
[#3]
I've seen a picture of an Israeli tossing a grenade with a string/piece of rope attached to it. I also saw a short description of doing this in a field manual years ago. Apparently you tie the string around the fuze, pull the pin, give it a swing overhead and toss. Given that the fuses can vary a bit, there's no way I want one close to me once the spoon is released so I place that concept in the "Bad Idea" folder.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:11:39 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you don't trow a grenade like a baseball  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can throw a baseball further than I can throw a stick. Are we sure the stick adds an advantage or are we assuming? I get the assumed leverage advantage....think atlatl.....but in practical application I think the stick grenade is a fail. you don't trow a grenade like a baseball well you could if you want your arm to fall off
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:28:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Tag
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:29:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can we just man up already and start using these? 
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/2/27154/1509925-ultra_bolter.jpg The Emperor protects. My armor is contempt My shield is disgust My sword is hatred |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:38:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<a href="http://s394.photobucket.com/user/phobia68/media/idfriflegrenadier.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/phobia68/idfriflegrenadier.jpg</a> The French still use lots of rifle grenades 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:44:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you don't trow a grenade like a baseball Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can throw a baseball further than I can throw a stick. Are we sure the stick adds an advantage or are we assuming? I get the assumed leverage advantage....think atlatl.....but in practical application I think the stick grenade is a fail. you don't trow a grenade like a baseball I was wondering how long it would take to point this out.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:48:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we're going to redesign the hand grenade, I'd prefer to see a single grenade capable of use as either a hand grenade, or as a bullet-through rifle grenade that would snug up on the current issue flash hider. This. I've always thought a handle type grenade would include the option as a rifle grenade; unscrew the fuze assembly from the base of the handle and *voila* rifle ready. I remember seeing some WW2 footage of a German soldier in urban combat run up to a window, smash it out with the grenade then pull fuse and toss in. I saw the same footage with Army soldiers; there's required two men, one would bust the window out with the butt of his rifle then the other would pull the pin and toss the grenade in. Carrying stick grenades wouldn't be that hard. you could carry them head down between your mag pouches or horizontally. They would be no longer than a pop-up flare or a 30rd M-16 mag. You know, with today's technology you could even design the grenade for varying time delays. Turn the handle to the time you want which would be marked where the handle meets the explosive head, from 0 to whatever. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 5:59:17 AM EDT
[#11]
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Thank God for baseball. 
Like chucking rocks. You know, there's a funny story about that. During WW2 developers identified a problem with the common hand grenade. It had too many protuberances that could get hung up, you had to go through a kinda complicated series of actions to ready, prime, then throw the grenade which could be difficult under combat conditions. So they developed a better grenade and came up with a spin activated grenade. The grenade would arm itself when thrown and detonate on contact. This made the process of throwing a grenade under combat conditions much easier - there were no protuberances, no handles to snag, no pin to be pulled or to work loose, nothing, just like chucking rocks. Just a nice round baseball shaped grenade. What's the first thing an all-American boy raised on baseball does when handed a baseball? The concept was quickly shelved. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:02:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I feel like tossing a grenade farther is what we invented the 40mm Grenade Launcher for. Right - unless you don't have one. I also like the idea that it's more likely to stay in the area where it lands instead of ......bounce, bounce, roll, roll, roll.......bang. http://i.imgur.com/DWzfFxJ.jpg http://www.soldiermod.com/volume-6/images/articles/programmes/grenade.jpg  http://youtu.be/iYy-vXRpm_QSwedes make some good stuff |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:06:09 AM EDT
[#13]
IIRC the Germans still use them to some capacity. At a NATO couse back in 2002, we were going out on a patrol and the German E8 hands me "smoke". It was a potato masher type smoke.
Me: 
German E8:
Me:
I did end up using it during the exercise. IIRC, I had to unscrew the top, pull the pin, then throw the damn thing. Worked ok I guess. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:06:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Also, if you combine a stick grenade with a rifle grenade, you can get rid of that fucked up abortion called the M203!
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:09:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, if you combine a stick grenade with a rifle grenade, you can get rid of that fucked up abortion called the M203! I always think of the 203 as a 40mm mortar. I know jack shit about rifle grenades, but always thought they were flatter trajectory, so not really a 203/m79 substitute. Somebody correct me if I'm getting that wrong. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:15:30 AM EDT
[#16]
I would not want to throw a potato masher in a wooded environment.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:23:10 AM EDT
[#17]
I think the current hand grenades are fine.
As for the rifle launched stuff everyone is talking about, I think it's time we re-visited the Brunswick RAW: 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:24:39 AM EDT
[#18]
I'm picturing this, except with grenades instead of rocks...
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:36:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not just use one of these to toss the frags we have now? http://assets.sbnation.com.s3.amazonaws.com/features/Jai-Alai/breaker-2.jpg COBRA beat you to this idea back in the late 80's.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:42:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the current hand grenades are fine. As for the rifle launched stuff everyone is talking about, I think it's time we re-visited the Brunswick RAW: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5379/aaep.jpg Exhibit 1 in favor of AR 600-9. Brunswick RAW, make your portly cigarette smoking infantrychubs even more dangerous!
Cool concept for a weapon though. Reminds me a bit of that brit grenade thingy from WWII |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:48:26 AM EDT
[#21]
The Vietnamese used a small grenade that was about half wood and half metal. The top was a wooden stopper on top of the wooden half with a string inside. I always just assumed they were Chicom but they may have been homemade.
They nearly always threw 2 at once because the little grenades were not very reliable. 
The ones I saw had a shorter wooden handle. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:49:49 AM EDT
[#22]
All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:51:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Note that the screw-off cap was not in the first iteration. The first iteration just had the looped string hanging out of the handle, unprotected. Yeah. The cap was added after a few "bad experiences" in the brush.
Kharn Would have been bad for business. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 6:59:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering how long it would take to point this out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can throw a baseball further than I can throw a stick. Are we sure the stick adds an advantage or are we assuming? I get the assumed leverage advantage....think atlatl.....but in practical application I think the stick grenade is a fail. you don't trow a grenade like a baseball I was wondering how long it would take to point this out. I have only thrown live grenades in basic. I threw plenty of the dumb little blank grenades though...same shell. If not thrown like a ball, that what the hell do you call it? I threw the damned things like a ball. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:02:30 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg Tough to clear a trenchline with that one. Unless they bring back a buckshot round. or flechettes. Also, hand grenades to knock out bunkers come in handy when other methods haven't worked. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:03:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:03:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what could go wrong... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's fucking huge and unwieldy. Wouldn't carry on kit worth a shit. Also it wouldn't go as well through small holes or spaces if need be. The M67 is perfectly fine. The ASM fucks people up better though Again, I would suggest a new model where the handle would be collapsible and constructed of lightweight fiberglass. Our rifle stocks are not made of wood any longer, we can also modernize other gear. what could go wrong... |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:07:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1,3,2 Quote HistoryYes twice, NO, yes once, electrolytes, sleep. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 7:37:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Versus just throwing it? It doesn't take long to understand at all. Added complexity, added cost, added size (even with a collapsible stock) added steps in its usage....I wasn't aware that the GIs are having an issue with the hand grenade as we use it today. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wouldve loved to walk around Iraq with a couple of those stuck in my body armor. Until they got heavy and the stick rubbed me raw. Fuck it... No but they are cool for realz. Again, modernize it with a collapsable, lightweight fiberglass. Too complicated? How long did it take you to understand a collapsable stock? Seconds? All it takes is some guy pulling the pin, realizing he didn't extend the handle, then fumbles it like a monkey fucking a football.
Some people can barely throw a rock to save themselves, let along handle an explosive device that requires any amount of 'finesse'. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 8:50:32 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tough to clear a trenchline with that one. Unless they bring back a buckshot round. or flechettes. Also, hand grenades to knock out bunkers come in handy when other methods haven't worked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg Tough to clear a trenchline with that one. Unless they bring back a buckshot round. or flechettes. Also, hand grenades to knock out bunkers come in handy when other methods haven't worked. 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 10:55:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tough to clear a trenchline with that one. Unless they bring back a buckshot round. or flechettes. Also, hand grenades to knock out bunkers come in handy when other methods haven't worked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. Tough to clear a trenchline with that one. Unless they bring back a buckshot round. or flechettes. Also, hand grenades to knock out bunkers come in handy when other methods haven't worked. Now that I think about it, a grenade launcher projectile with a provision to allow it to be used as a hand grenade makes a lot of sense. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:02:38 AM EDT
[#32]
If this is an example of some of of the "out of the box forward thinking" that OP claims he would bring to the Test Post Forum as a moderator.... then the Avila's made a smart move by not appointing him.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there's a stigma associated with that style of grenade. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I suppose if it worked well, someone today would be using it. I think there's a stigma associated with that style of grenade. They said that in the 1980s when the US adopted those "Nazi" helmets. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have only thrown live grenades in basic. I threw plenty of the dumb little blank grenades though...same shell. If not thrown like a ball, that what the hell do you call it? I threw the damned things like a ball. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I can throw a baseball further than I can throw a stick. Are we sure the stick adds an advantage or are we assuming? I get the assumed leverage advantage....think atlatl.....but in practical application I think the stick grenade is a fail. you don't trow a grenade like a baseball I was wondering how long it would take to point this out. I have only thrown live grenades in basic. I threw plenty of the dumb little blank grenades though...same shell. If not thrown like a ball, that what the hell do you call it? I threw the damned things like a ball. I don't know how it's done in the US military, but we teach soldiers to keep their arms straight. It's easier to control exactly where the grenade goes, than if one uses a baseball-type technique. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:40:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am wondering if they'll go entirely to the little 25 mm ones eventually (for propelled grenades). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg 25mm rounds have an extremely small kill/casualty-radius. The 40x46mm grenades are anemic enough as it is (which is why modern launchers like the M320 can also use 40x51mm grenades). |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:43:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how it's done in the US military, but we teach soldiers to keep their arms straight. It's easier to control exactly where the grenade goes, than if one uses a baseball-type technique. I know what you mean; that is what is taught here too. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:53:58 AM EDT
[#37]
Ummm why would we need extra range? Anything over 30-35 meters (the range m67 are usually thrown at) sounds like perfect territory for 40mm.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:55:02 AM EDT
[#38]
Cumbersome which why they are no longer used
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Posted: 1/21/2014 11:55:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right - unless you don't have one. I also like the idea that it's more likely to stay in the area where it lands instead of ......bounce, bounce, roll, roll, roll.......bang. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I feel like tossing a grenade farther is what we invented the 40mm Grenade Launcher for. Right - unless you don't have one. I also like the idea that it's more likely to stay in the area where it lands instead of ......bounce, bounce, roll, roll, roll.......bang. ever been part of a rifle squad bro? |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:00:38 PM EDT
[#40]
I hate threads that say ...... something something discuss.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:02:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the current hand grenades are fine. As for the rifle launched stuff everyone is talking about, I think it's time we re-visited the Brunswick RAW: http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5379/aaep.jpg Brunswick, huh? I guess what works in the bowling alley could theoretically work on the battlefield, somehow.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:04:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All this nonsense of throwing grenades by hand. http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/grenade/gl06/m79-2.jpg I'd much rather use the M79 or M203. The thought of throwing grenades has always bothered me. 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:14:47 PM EDT
[#43]
We need a lawn dart version. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:18:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Far enough...and as soon as I let go I'd be runnin' the opposite direction. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
how far can you throw this
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX3kNLE_3KHQYMTXT7pJlljqBDrphw_0AlQVxPmlX9sRThzvFwQ3M4aJtg Far enough...and as soon as I let go I'd be runnin' the opposite direction. And my lab would be right behind me with it in his mouth! 
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:23:20 PM EDT
[#45]
More mass? No thanks. Infantryman's load is heavy enough.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:30:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right - unless you don't have one. I also like the idea that it's more likely to stay in the area where it lands instead of ......bounce, bounce, roll, roll, roll.......bang. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I feel like tossing a grenade farther is what we invented the 40mm Grenade Launcher for. Right - unless you don't have one. I also like the idea that it's more likely to stay in the area where it lands instead of ......bounce, bounce, roll, roll, roll.......bang. I do have to say. Never been in a situation where a stick grenade was the thought that crossed my mind as "That is exactly what I need right now." I've never felt there was a gap between M67s, M203, and MK19s. |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:31:40 PM EDT
[#47]
Consulting the book of armaments I find this to be superior
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:50:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Haji still likes those old school grenades.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:56:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haji still likes those old school grenades. <a href="http://s20.photobucket.com/user/fightinghellfish/media/Afghanistan/100_8914.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b250/fightinghellfish/Afghanistan/100_8914.jpg</a> Is that chinese? Russian? Hammered together from goat shit and bubblegum in a cave locally? |
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Posted: 1/21/2014 12:58:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that chinese? Russian? Hammered together from goat shit and bubblegum in a cave locally? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Haji still likes those old school grenades. <a href="http://s20.photobucket.com/user/fightinghellfish/media/Afghanistan/100_8914.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b250/fightinghellfish/Afghanistan/100_8914.jpg</a> Is that chinese? Russian? Hammered together from goat shit and bubblegum in a cave locally? I'd guess it's Chinese, or a Paki copy of a Chinese grenade. |
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