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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:07:40 PM EST
[#1]
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Pete Brownell would demand a refund. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Bring him and DanTSX back, and make them both mods.  Take the money and run! |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:09:56 PM EST
[#2]
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The trick with this, is that "trolling" is so subjective, that I'm not even sure how a prohibition on it can be enforced without making a lot of mistakes. If you think moderation is over the top now, just wait until we start handing out warnings for what we perceive as trolling. For my part, I'm more inclined to err on the side of caution (i.e. moderate using a less is more philosophy), rather than warn somebody for trolling mistakenly. Out of curiosity though, if you were in my shoes, how would you decide when a comment is trolling and deserves a warning? It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:15:26 PM EST
[#3]
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:16:28 PM EST
[#4]
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It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. 
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:18:21 PM EST
[#5]
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The definition does not include polite disagreement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:18:24 PM EST
[#6]
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Don't worry, "If you don't like it you can leave." is exactly what the users are hearing. I think that's exactly the message that the new ownership intends to send, though. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:19:33 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who can't figure out what trolling is, is a social illiterate who should not be allowed to vote. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:21:23 PM EST
[#8]
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Write out a concise and all encompassing definition if you will. With the duck and cover smiley to sort of point it out. I suppose our arfcom definition is “designed to elicit a negative response.” Which is still a judgement call of course. My comment, though devoid of cursing, finger pointing, name calling, etc, could be construed as such. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:22:11 PM EST
[#9]
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I’ve seen mods and above say those exact words multiple times since all this. I’m not too worked up about the ruckus either direction, but having that mentality towards your membership is absolute trash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't worry, "If you don't like it you can leave." is exactly what the users are hearing. I think that's exactly the message that the new ownership intends to send, though. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:24:07 PM EST
[#10]
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Absolutely. If you can't control yourself, push away from the keyboard and go outside. The other day I decided to step away from these threads for a day. People need to learn self control and realize that not everyone with a different opinion is a troll. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, the topic was people trolling, and being successful in getting people to bite. So by your saying don' blame others, are you implying it's the person being trolled's fault if they fall for it? It's not the opinion, it's the repeated pattern in post structure over time. There is a difference between blatant trolling and a trolling couched as an opinion. But it takes time, a whole lot of precious time, to do it right. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:24:44 PM EST
[#11]
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I was trying to provide an example of very light trolling. With the duck and cover smiley to sort of point it out. I suppose our arfcom definition is “designed to elicit a negative response.” Which is still a judgement call of course. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Write out a concise and all encompassing definition if you will. With the duck and cover smiley to sort of point it out. I suppose our arfcom definition is “designed to elicit a negative response.” Which is still a judgement call of course. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:25:11 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then when almost 3/4 of the guests tell you to put the other station back on, you listen to them, not the 1/4 that wanted it changed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/7C9FE647-F6AC-4C5F-A1E9-B9966E6A88F5_jpeg-1131640.JPG |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:26:15 PM EST
[#13]
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Then another nugget pops up. The squeaky wheels don't necessarily represent the actual majority of party-goers, just the weird anti-social guys standing in the corner of the party. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Then when almost 3/4 of the guests tell you to put the other station back on, you listen to them, not the 1/4 that wanted it changed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/7C9FE647-F6AC-4C5F-A1E9-B9966E6A88F5_jpeg-1131640.JPG |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:27:19 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was trying to provide an example of very light trolling. With the duck and cover smiley to sort of point it out. I suppose our arfcom definition is "designed to elicit a negative response." Which is still a judgement call of course. My comment, though devoid of cursing, finger pointing, name calling, etc, could be construed as such. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:28:21 PM EST
[#15]
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Polite disagreement is fine. Being an obnoxious ass and straffing page after page with bullshit doesn't constitute polite disagreement though. Hypothetically speaking of course. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:29:28 PM EST
[#16]
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I disagree. Members are guests. Guests need to have respect for the host's rules, or run the risk of being shown the door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Don't worry, "If you don't like it you can leave." is exactly what the users are hearing. I think that's exactly the message that the new ownership intends to send, though. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:29:33 PM EST
[#17]
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Your goalposts move so much that even carnies think your game is crooked. If I'm losing you, just say so. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:30:13 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Selling the site was a really smart move. Take the money and run! |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:30:25 PM EST
[#19]
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Me too.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well I've been told (to paraphrase), as long as people are adults and don't fall for it, then nothing will happen. If they do fall for it, then it shows they don't have control. Adults can post without breaking the rules. 
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:32:58 PM EST
[#20]
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So polite disagreement can only be a single post stating so, and then fade away to not say anything further? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Polite disagreement is fine. Being an obnoxious ass and straffing page after page with bullshit doesn't constitute polite disagreement though. Hypothetically speaking of course. Read through this thread and look for the one guy hammering out the same post over and over and over again just waiting for somebody to take the bait while offering nothing of substance. That would be trolling. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:33:25 PM EST
[#21]
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Let loose the floodgates. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:34:27 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryIf I'm losing you, just say so. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:35:41 PM EST
[#23]
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I'm making analogies to the commentary directed to me If I'm losing you, just say so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Your goalposts move so much that even carnies think your game is crooked. If I'm losing you, just say so. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:36:25 PM EST
[#24]
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RELEASE THE KRAKEN !!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let loose the floodgates. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:37:03 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your goalposts move so much that even carnies think your game is crooked. 
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:39:36 PM EST
[#26]
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Not at all what I said. Read through this thread and look for the one guy hammering out the same post over and over and over again just waiting for somebody to take the bait while offering nothing of substance. That would be trolling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Polite disagreement is fine. Being an obnoxious ass and straffing page after page with bullshit doesn't constitute polite disagreement though. Hypothetically speaking of course. Read through this thread and look for the one guy hammering out the same post over and over and over again just waiting for somebody to take the bait while offering nothing of substance. That would be trolling. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:40:16 PM EST
[#27]
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Polite disagreement is fine. Being an obnoxious ass and straffing page after page with bullshit doesn't constitute polite disagreement though. Hypothetically speaking of course. A person doing that may or may not be trolling, but could maybe use a fatherly discussion of what is in his best interest foing forward. Or medicine. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:40:25 PM EST
[#28]
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Oh no, I got you. You're one of the ones who want GD to go fully bootlick g-rated so you'll just twist every piece of evidence that shows you're in the minority to make it look like everyone thinks like you. Nor do I expect everyone to think as I do, but they can certainly be polite and adult in how they post. If you call that G rated, so be it. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:40:40 PM EST
[#29]
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The trick with this, is that "trolling" is so subjective, that I'm not even sure how a prohibition on it can be enforced without making a lot of mistakes. If you think moderation is over the top now, just wait until we start handing out warnings for what we perceive as trolling. For my part, I'm more inclined to err on the side of caution (i.e. moderate using a less is more philosophy), rather than warn somebody for trolling mistakenly. Out of curiosity though, if you were in my shoes, how would you decide when a comment is trolling and deserves a warning? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well I've been told (to paraphrase), as long as people are adults and don't fall for it, then nothing will happen. If they do fall for it, then it shows they don't have control. Adults can post without breaking the rules. With your attitude Dave_A should be let back in GD right? Dave_A did nothing wrong, OTHER posters just couldn't be adults. Out of curiosity though, if you were in my shoes, how would you decide when a comment is trolling and deserves a warning? As owner of the bar, I state as fact, that as owner of said hypothetical bar I make the rules and this situation is purely fiction and not meant as a callout for any site trolls and my desire to poke anyone in the nose I also state that if any may take issue with my hypothetical situation, that I resume the right for you to take it up with my attorney, NoloCheck is in the mail for retainer Nolo
ETA @Subnet |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:44:19 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point him out. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:56:49 PM EST
[#31]
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I’ve seen mods and above say those exact words multiple times since all this. I’m not too worked up about the ruckus either direction, but having that mentality towards your membership is absolute trash. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 4:59:10 PM EST
[#32]
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RELEASE THE KRAKEN !!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Let loose the floodgates. Oh, wait. Those would the the Moderators. Never mind. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 5:28:44 PM EST
[#33]
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Trolling isn't that subjective though. I've posted research papers on it here before, there's enough decades of examples that define it within narrow scopes and styles of trolling. . I moderated a large multi-sectioned forum on a well known gun forum back in the early 2000's... I saw moderator after moderator on the various forums twist this word "trolling" to their opinions and "facts" If you want to see a fucked up forum, put the word "trolling" in the CoC... Subguns did it and moderators abused the hell out of it and ruined the forum.... Sturmgewehr did it, fucked it up and the list goes on and on. If the phrase "slippery slope" was in the dictionary, the word "trolling" would be its synonym. If it's not patently illegal or threatening to anyone, let it go IMO. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 5:40:52 PM EST
[#34]
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It's been going on for nearly a century, but the left has shored up their holdings in social media quite a bit in the last ten years. I expect this is what the owners and staff are wrestling with; how much "real" pro-2A talk to allow and how much to stifle in an effort to self preserve. I have no doubt the owners and at least a majority of the staff understand the true intent of the 2A. Preserving this platform in overwhelmingly hostile waters is a tightrope though. I don't envy them right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Few things: 
1. I don't have his email address (only staff can see that). 2. Only the staff member who locked him out of GD can bring him back (Aimless). Mods don't have the ability. 3. I floated the idea of unlocking him a couple few years ago, before I was a moderator. Knowing what I know now, bringing him back would make my job a fucking nightmare, even if Dave_A behaved like a saint. He would be trolled relentlessly, because arfcommers have loooooong memories and don't forgive. Considering how our gov. and legal system is set up, thought this site would be similar in some way. idk, w/e I expect this is what the owners and staff are wrestling with; how much "real" pro-2A talk to allow and how much to stifle in an effort to self preserve. I have no doubt the owners and at least a majority of the staff understand the true intent of the 2A. Preserving this platform in overwhelmingly hostile waters is a tightrope though. I don't envy them right now. The flaw I pointed out is a good example. And has already been exploited by the bee keeper guy from what I've read. And if what I've also read was true, if he came back, he would be welcomed by staff. Never saw that disputed. I think there is some weird shit going on internally and it needs fixing from the top. But from what I have also read, [just my opinion from what little is said] the top may not want to fix, and also may be in a situation were this is the last of his concerns. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:11:17 PM EST
[#35]
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Polite disagreement is fine. Being an obnoxious ass and straffing page after page with bullshit doesn't constitute polite disagreement though. Hypothetically speaking of course. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:43:54 PM EST
[#36]
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The worst trolls are obnoxiously self important contrarians who spam up every page with brainless comments which don’t actually have any point. It’s not easy to give a concise definition, but it’s very easy to spot who they are. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:45:32 PM EST
[#37]
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Show examples of their posts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quoted:
Show examples of their posts. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:46:17 PM EST
[#38]
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The worst trolls are obnoxiously self important contrarians who spam up every page with brainless comments which don't actually have any point. It's not easy to give a concise definition, but it's very easy to spot who they are. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:49:32 PM EST
[#39]
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Show examples of their posts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quoted: Point him out. Quoted: Show examples of their posts. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:54:12 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show examples of their posts. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:56:08 PM EST
[#41]
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But if you ban them this place will be just like DU! (the standard defense people use for trolling/ shitposting) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 6:59:19 PM EST
[#42]
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quoted: Point him out. Quoted: Show examples of their posts. Produce posts in which I've done any of it. On the other hand, I've been accused of being all of those. They aren't hard to find. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:04:19 PM EST
[#43]
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I've been polite. I've not accused anyone of being a troll, ass kisser, dick sucker, shareblue, or anything else. Produce posts in which I've done any of it. On the other hand, I've been accused of being all of those. They aren't hard to find. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. Quoted: Point him out. Quoted: Show examples of their posts. Produce posts in which I've done any of it. On the other hand, I've been accused of being all of those. They aren't hard to find. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:06:03 PM EST
[#44]
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Take off the muzzle, and watch them run. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. The site leadership didn't go that direction though, so while it would be fun, entertaining, and the best way put trolls in check, it's a blue sky dream at this point. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:07:50 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who can’t figure out what trolling is, is a social illiterate who should not be allowed to vote. Going to take my socially illiterate self back out of here now. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:11:12 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point him out. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:12:30 PM EST
[#47]
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Well that's what I would prefer personally. But I came up in jobs where you had to be good at talking mad shit or you'd get dog-piled. If you couldn't hang slagging each other, or got butthurt no one would want you around. Same on early chat rooms and such (myspace groups and AIM messenger, cars and guns, zero moderation) The site leadership didn't go that direction though, so while it would be fun, entertaining, and the best way put trolls in check, it's a blue sky dream at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think of it like pornography. I might not be able to clearly define it but I know it when I see it. It's not possible to write out a clean cut definition. Hypothetically speaking of course. If members were allowed to vote, they would be cleared out quickly. The site leadership didn't go that direction though, so while it would be fun, entertaining, and the best way put trolls in check, it's a blue sky dream at this point. Edit..nor is it the early days of myspace etc. |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:13:24 PM EST
[#48]
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Your goalposts move so much that even carnies think your game is crooked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Then when almost 3/4 of the guests tell you to put the other station back on, you listen to them, not the 1/4 that wanted it changed. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/58021/7C9FE647-F6AC-4C5F-A1E9-B9966E6A88F5_jpeg-1131640.JPG |
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:26:29 PM EST
[#49]
Inmates don't run the asylum. Though they often think they should.
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Posted: 10/20/2019 7:27:55 PM EST
[#50]
Ok, everyone STFU for a while. The game is on.
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