User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:16:24 PM EST
[#1]
Whatever you say doesn't matter
Lead them into a dark alley and punch them in the nose |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:18:30 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whatever you say doesn't matter Lead them into a dark alley and punch them in the nose Is that a metaphor for something? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:21:16 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I simply look up what the .gov spends per person on medicare and medicaid, then times it by 330 million people, and give them a price tag. Also I use the same per person number and tell them their taxes will have to go up twice that amount, to cover those who dont work ( kids and seniors plus others ). $7,153 for a working age person $19,098 for over 65 so lets split the middle call it 13k, times 330 million equals 4,290,000,000,000. or almost doubling the current fed spending. and if your a worker who has to pay to cover them selves, with those who dont work you will be paying at least 26k more a year in taxes to cover it. Most drop it at that point https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NHE-Fact-Sheet I'm already paying for non workers Not that Medicare for all is the answer, but your argument kind of sucks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:21:27 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By eliminating 80% of them, and removing the incentives to make a career of “public service”. Not realistic nor desirable |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:23:28 PM EST
[#5]
Nothing free about Medicare that I have seen for me. I paid for it up until I turned 65 then I continue to pay for it after I got it. Medicare took money and continues to take money. If I don't want to get in an advantage plan and want good coverage I still wind up paying buying a supplement for it, a prescription plan, and a dental plan on top of what is taken out for part B medicare.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:27:56 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These questions. Have they seen the VA ? How will you pay for it ? There is no right to healthcare. The majority of our country believes in a "right" to healthcare. As well as a "universal livable wage", affordable housing, a gun-free society, and other idiotic "rights". Let me spell it for you: M-a-j-o-r-i-t-y. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:28:55 PM EST
[#7]
It’s best to not argue with the mentally challenged.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:29:52 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not realistic nor desirable Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: By eliminating 80% of them, and removing the incentives to make a career of “public service”. Not realistic nor desirable Of course it's not realistic to just delete 80% of the government. It sure is desirable though!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:30:23 PM EST
[#9]
Who pays for it and how soon does it fall apart such that no one gets any medical care?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:31:01 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The majority of our country believes in a "right" to healthcare. As well as a "universal livable wage", affordable housing, a gun-free society, and other idiotic "rights". Let me spell it for you: M-a-j-o-r-i-t-y. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These questions. Have they seen the VA ? How will you pay for it ? There is no right to healthcare. The majority of our country believes in a "right" to healthcare. As well as a "universal livable wage", affordable housing, a gun-free society, and other idiotic "rights". Let me spell it for you: M-a-j-o-r-i-t-y. I agree, and when I realized that, I also realized this country is doomed to fail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:31:14 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally I don't believe in an absolute form of society/government. Some socialist elements can be effective, just as some areas are more conducive to a completely free-market solution. Healthcare is an area where I think socialist principles could be a benefit. I just got out of a 4 day hospital stay, I had a rhinovirus that caused my own immune system to attack my lungs. I have great insurance, but my CoPay is still going to be north of $6k. I'm lucky in that I can afford it, though it's not exactly comfortable, but for a lot of people that could be a life-altering bill. There's got to be some middle ground on these issues, whether it's government funded research to reduce the eventual costs of medications and treatments, or some other kind of coexistence between the government and the free market, but healthcare isn't always something you can just do without if you can't afford it. I don't know what the right answer is, but it isn't what we have now, and it isn't on either extreme either. Where does the Government get its money (when it's not printing fiat currency out of thin air)? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:33:22 PM EST
[#12]
Medicare for all doesn't make much sense, but out current system is full of fuck also
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:33:56 PM EST
[#13]
What do i say? As a surgeon, i say: i personally know 6 surgeons who left Canada because their patients’ wait for appropriate care was so poor, they left;
I also ask if they really want the USA like many European & Scandinavian countries that make physicians “holiday” for 2 months so only true emergencies are done? Penultimate, are they as patients ready to wait? Non-urgent/ non-emergent cases are put off for weeks to months in socialized settings. Lastly, are they willing to sign over their lives & healthcare to algorithms set by non-physicians? For example: in most socialized medicine, anyone older than 75y cannot have a screening colonoscopy every decade. People regularly live to 100+yrs. In general, colon cancer grows so slowly, it’s not worth the risk of complication from a colonoscopy, which occurs roughly 1/1000 cases. So, if you have a colon polyp that started at age 73 that could have been removed by a simple colonoscopy AND PREVENTED COLON CANCER—you now die at 80y to 83y from a preventable cancer, or now need an operation for something that was preventable. Well—those rules only apply to others—not entitled Americans, right? My decades of dealing with Medicaid & Medicare patients who don’t take care if themselves, is that when the results of their choices lead to bad outcomes—they now want everything possible done. They’ll quit smoking….lose weight….have the procedure they refused for 10 years…. Yes—socialized medicine and Dr Google FTW! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:36:31 PM EST
[#14]
it's quietly happening. they just expanded medicaid eligibility yugely. anybody making under 17k/year eligible.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:36:54 PM EST
[#15]
Medicare for all also means ownership of your health decisions—make bad choices, that’s your responsibility as an adult, and i don’t have to spend $$$millions to fix your bad choices.
But that’s never how it works. Everyone wants redemption when death is the result of bad diet, sedentary life, smoking, drinking, ad nauseum…. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:38:49 PM EST
[#16]
"Who's gonna pay for it?"
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:41:18 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Who's gonna pay for it?" china |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:44:52 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: my mediocre health insurance for 3 costs my company 25k a year, I pay in 9.6k and I have to spend another 7k deductible before it kicks in. I'm already paying for non workers Not that Medicare for all is the answer, but your argument kind of sucks. Sound like your ins really sucks. I pay 200 a month, the cost on top of that to my employer iirc is another 200. My yearly deductible is 1200, then it 80/20 and max out of pocket iirc 7k. also I am talking for a single person I dont have kids, those with kids should pay more. @Rumrunner358 |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:45:29 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These questions. Have they seen the VA ? How will you pay for it ? There is no right to healthcare. That’s technically not true, you have a right to access it but not for someone else to pay for it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:48:55 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure Skippy, I'm all for that. Just give me the equivalent return for the S&P for the 43 years I worked on every fucking dime that either I or my employer paid into the system and I'll go away. You’re going to have to live a long time to get that back out of SS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:51:36 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sound like your ins really sucks. I pay 200 a month, the cost on top of that to my employer iirc is another 200. My yearly deductible is 1200, then it 80/20 and max out of pocket iirc 7k. also I am talking for a single person I dont have kids, those with kids should pay more. @Rumrunner358 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: my mediocre health insurance for 3 costs my company 25k a year, I pay in 9.6k and I have to spend another 7k deductible before it kicks in. I'm already paying for non workers Not that Medicare for all is the answer, but your argument kind of sucks. Sound like your ins really sucks. I pay 200 a month, the cost on top of that to my employer iirc is another 200. My yearly deductible is 1200, then it 80/20 and max out of pocket iirc 7k. also I am talking for a single person I dont have kids, those with kids should pay more. @Rumrunner358 |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:53:59 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s technically not true, you have a right to access it but not for someone else to pay for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: These questions. Have they seen the VA ? How will you pay for it ? There is no right to healthcare. That’s technically not true, you have a right to access it but not for someone else to pay for it. Another thing that I mentioned is the fact that forced labor has no place in a free country. What hallens when doctors are no longer paid what they're worth and stop working? We are all fucked. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 7:58:46 PM EST
[#23]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:08:41 PM EST
[#24]
Most likely, “I’d like a large mocha, please.”
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:11:44 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're way off on the cost to your employer. No I do the estimating for the company, I have access to all the costs including taxes and ins. I actually just changed our average labor bid rate for the field guys because it went up last year. With it going up my share did too, but the fun part is when I negotiated my salary I said the company actually pays my share. But in maryland if anyone get "paid" for health care everyone has to. So I have a salary and then they add the share I have to pay on top of it, so I really dont pay anything. My salary is $xx,xxx a year + my share of the cost. I have seen the crazy costs for ins in some places, and for those with kids, my boss "pays" like 2500 a month for his kids. His personal share is the same as mine offset on his salary. Maryland is a cheaper state for health care. The company loaded payroll cost is 27% on top of hourly including health care, the companys part of SS, other taxes and vacation. So if you make 30 an hour its another 8 bucks in loaded rate. That even includes unemployment ins just looked it up, apparently "my share" is higher than the average in maryland clicky here |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:15:59 PM EST
[#26]
"If you want to save on health care costs why not implement cost saving measures that socialized systems have in place while retaining our cutting edge medical care? Ohh because you think you will not need to do so."
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:25:23 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they were actually on Medicare they would soon understand that you still have to buy Part G (private insurance plan) and Part D (private insurance plan for RX drugs) or go to a Medicare Advantage Plan (huge scam where you are locked in with doctors who they don't pay much and don't authorize needed testing). The up - side of Medicare is they set the rate that the hospital is allowed to charge. Medical expenses are not a comparison of apples to apples the health care industry is crooked as hell they bill huge costs and settle with different insurance companies for different amounts. You can also negotiate the cost if you are paying cash. It's such a misleading billing system that rather than have Medicare for all the law should say that the Medicare rate is all that they can bill anyone. Before the HMO ACT OF 1973 it was ILLEGAL to profit off Healthcare. Repeal that and you fix the system. So doctors and other medical staff worked for free before 1973? Interesting. I learned something new today. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:28:44 PM EST
[#28]
Medicare cost me over $500 a month.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:29:35 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call/ask around and find out how many doctors and clinics do not take medicare at all. There's a reason for that. My wife used to see a doctor that didn't take any insurance. He (the doctor) found that he had enough patients who would pay out of pocket and do their own insurance reimbursement. The doctor felt he saved enough on not having to pay for someone to fill out all the insurance forms, follow up with insurance billings etc. Patients paid at every visit when they checked in at the front desk...cash, check, or credit card or no doctor visit. The doctor wouldn't carry any account balances. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:32:00 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife used to see a doctor that didn't take any insurance. He (the doctor) found that he had enough patients who would pay out of pocket and do their own insurance reimbursement. The doctor felt he saved enough on not having to pay for someone to fill out all the insurance forms, follow up with insurance billings etc. Patients paid at every visit when they checked in at the front desk...cash, check, or credit card or no doctor visit. The doctor wouldn't carry any account balances. That's exactly how it should work. Medical costs would go WAY the fuck down, and people would then know what a procedure, office visit, etc, really costs. Would also cut down on the welfare rats constantly going to the ER because they stubbed their toe, had a sniffle, etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:35:49 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My wife used to see a doctor that didn't take any insurance. He (the doctor) found that he had enough patients who would pay out of pocket and do their own insurance reimbursement. The doctor felt he saved enough on not having to pay for someone to fill out all the insurance forms, follow up with insurance billings etc. Patients paid at every visit when they checked in at the front desk...cash, check, or credit card or no doctor visit. The doctor wouldn't carry any account balances. There used to be a doctor in baltimore that took no insurance at all. You paid cash or card for the visits, a simple doctor apt was like 30 bucks. Obviously things like tests where more. He was forced to shut down his office by the state, they told him you either have to take insurance of stop seeing patients. Its due to some single source law in maryland, not sure how it works my dad tried to explain it once and I dont remember. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:54:48 PM EST
[#32]
Tell them to look at VAHS 10 years ago, then add 290 million patients and cut doctors by 50%
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 8:58:12 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, health insurance companies are a scam, in collusion with the .gov and the hospitals and pharmas. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:02:39 PM EST
[#34]
I say nothing to them. I refuse to debate idiots
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:10:42 PM EST
[#35]
1. Healthcare is a privledge and NOT a right. We are only guaranteed life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness along with the amendments.
2. Universal Healthcare is nice in theory, but when they have to wait a month or more to be seen along with substandard care, people will start to think otherwise. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:14:45 PM EST
[#36]
You dont say anything. You slap the retardation out of them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:17:58 PM EST
[#37]
Remind them that you still pay 20% with Medicare.
There is no free lunch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:22:49 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want Medicare for everyone, you can pay for everyone to have Medicare. Worked great for the Soviets and the Cubans. And the Norks, and the Venezuelans... and the Canadians.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:24:12 PM EST
[#39]
Why should working people pay to provide health care for the super rich?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:29:45 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course it's not realistic to just delete 80% of the government. It sure is desirable though!No, not really. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:37:59 PM EST
[#41]
I'd probably listen to what they have to say and then agree with them to fit in with the 90%+ of the country that enjoys socialism.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:41:27 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sit down and talk with them and explain that it is an excessive bill. You may get it dropped substantially. He deserves it for going to the hospital for a cold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:42:07 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do i say? As a surgeon, i say: i personally know 6 surgeons who left Canada because their patients’ wait for appropriate care was so poor, they left; I also ask if they really want the USA like many European & Scandinavian countries that make physicians “holiday” for 2 months so only true emergencies are done? Penultimate, are they as patients ready to wait? Non-urgent/ non-emergent cases are put off for weeks to months in socialized settings. Lastly, are they willing to sign over their lives & healthcare to algorithms set by non-physicians? For example: in most socialized medicine, anyone older than 75y cannot have a screening colonoscopy every decade. People regularly live to 100+yrs. In general, colon cancer grows so slowly, it’s not worth the risk of complication from a colonoscopy, which occurs roughly 1/1000 cases. So, if you have a colon polyp that started at age 73 that could have been removed by a simple colonoscopy AND PREVENTED COLON CANCER—you now die at 80y to 83y from a preventable cancer, or now need an operation for something that was preventable. Well—those rules only apply to others—not entitled Americans, right? My decades of dealing with Medicaid & Medicare patients who don’t take care if themselves, is that when the results of their choices lead to bad outcomes—they now want everything possible done. They’ll quit smoking….lose weight….have the procedure they refused for 10 years…. Yes—socialized medicine and Dr Google FTW! Nah. Thats what they say to you and to the mirror. We all know they left Canada for the money, surprise they know it too. However, the socialized system sucks. The only silver lining of the socialized system is you can give absolute shit care and the patient can not do anything about it. Basically treat the patient as well as they treat you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:42:38 PM EST
[#44]
Quoted: People who are pushing the socialist healthcare bullshit? Apparently health insurance companies are all a scam. Medicare will save everyone with no downsides. I could roll my eyes so hard my neck would break. Wouldn’t it be great if no one could have a sick day because doctors didn’t cost anything? What about jobs for all? If you can have free healthcare we need everyone working like socialized countries or else we run out of money. You’re more than welcome to spend your money buying other people health insurance. Check out the local emergency room and offer to pay for people’s visits. If you aren’t willing to pay for it right now why would you e willing to pay for it if it was a law? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:43:36 PM EST
[#45]
I tell them healthcare is NOT a right. They normally go away right afterwards.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:45:17 PM EST
[#46]
I love the threads where everyone pretends they are against socialist policies while they love the socialist policies that are already in place.
Arfcom has someone the staunchest defenders of socialism. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:48:34 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Medicare can get away with paying a pittance for procedures because the private insurance companies can be overcharged. It’s a hidden tax and how they got the Medicare system as big as it is. If everyone got Medicare, Medicare would have to actually pay a proper rate. Did college costs go up when the government got involved, or go down? When healthcare is subsidized, the cost won’t be going down. But your taxes sure as hell will go up. The Doctors will still get their vacation and that new boat. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:50:03 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Taking money from younger, poorer, healthier people and distributing it to older, people who end their careers typically making the most money in their lives, unhealthy people seems like boomer socialist shit. Either Medicare for all or just get rid of it Younger people who think they will always be young. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:53:19 PM EST
[#49]
Can we do the same thing with lawyers? I mean everyone has a right to free law care.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/23/2021 9:53:20 PM EST
[#50]
Quoted: People who are pushing the socialist healthcare bullshit? Apparently health insurance companies are all a scam. Medicare will save everyone with no downsides. I could roll my eyes so hard my neck would break. Dont expect it to stay the same and checkout the VA |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
