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Honestly it's the one thing I agree with democrats about at this point

We neither have the votes nor the balls in the GOP to undo to last 50+ years of government interference in healthcare.  There is zero chance we will every reduce health insurance or premium costs in any reasonable way with the government controlled insurance system.

It's just a fact at this point that m4a is a better deal for everyone.  The taxes would be cheaper than premiums.  You'd no longer be held hostage at a job you hate because you have good insurance.  You could demand raises in place of what your premiums were which would be more than the tax you'd pay for m4a.       Yes care is rationed sometimes but never for serious issues in places where they have it.  Plus it's already rationed to some extent because people can't fucking afford it by the millions and we have been driven Into high deductible plans that still make us come out of pocket thousands of dollars on top of the thousands we spend for premiums

We lost the fight on affordable free market healthcare a long time ago and there's no going back to it.  For sure it would be better than m4a but it's never gonna fucking happen and m4a is better than the shit show we have now.

A larger number of people realize this every year as premiums keep rising and plans get shittier.  M4a will happen within a decade or two.  When you see it coming be a part of making it responsible otherwise the democrats will write all the rules of it and it won't be as good as it could be

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People who are pushing the socialist healthcare bullshit?  Apparently health insurance companies are all a scam.  Medicare will save everyone with no downsides.  I could roll my eyes so hard my neck would break.

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Personally I don't believe in an absolute form of society/government. Some socialist elements can be effective, just as some areas are more conducive to a completely free-market solution.

Healthcare is an area where I think socialist principles could be a benefit.

I just got out of a 4 day hospital stay, I had a rhinovirus that caused my own immune system to attack my lungs. I have great insurance, but my CoPay is still going to be north of $6k. I'm lucky in that I can afford it, though it's not exactly comfortable, but for a lot of people that could be a life-altering bill.

There's got to be some middle ground on these issues, whether it's government funded research to reduce the eventual costs of medications and treatments, or some other kind of coexistence between the government and the free market, but healthcare isn't always something you can just do without if you can't afford it.

I don't know what the right answer is, but it isn't what we have now, and it isn't on either extreme either.

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Tbh, I don't care anymore, Healthcare`s sucked for over a decade now. It'll probably continue sucking regardless of the system in place. I don't get in debates about it.

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What do i say?  As a surgeon, i say: i personally know 6 surgeons who left Canada because their patients’ wait for appropriate care was so poor, they left;

I also ask if they really want the USA like many European & Scandinavian countries that make physicians “holiday” for 2 months so only true emergencies are done?

Penultimate, are they as patients ready to wait?  Non-urgent/ non-emergent cases are put off for weeks to months in socialized settings.  

Lastly, are they willing to sign over their lives & healthcare to algorithms set by non-physicians?  For example: in most socialized medicine, anyone older than 75y cannot have a screening colonoscopy every decade.  People regularly live to 100+yrs. In general, colon cancer grows so slowly, it’s not worth the risk of complication from a colonoscopy, which occurs roughly 1/1000 cases.  So, if you have a colon polyp that started at age 73 that could have been removed by a simple colonoscopy AND PREVENTED COLON CANCER—you now die at 80y to 83y from a preventable cancer, or now need an operation for something that was preventable.

Well—those rules only apply to others—not entitled Americans, right?  My decades of dealing with Medicaid & Medicare patients who don’t take care if themselves, is that when the results of their choices lead to bad outcomes—they now want everything possible done.  They’ll quit smoking….lose weight….have the procedure they refused for 10 years….

Yes—socialized medicine and Dr Google FTW!

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I'd say that, collectively, Americans are paying more for health care in-total than any nation on the planet but we still have a shitton of Americans who can't afford health care. I'd say that if we just spent the money we already spend on health care, but did it intelligently, we could provide health care to all, no problem. I'd say our failure to provide health care to all is costing all of us a huge amount of money in increased premiums, lost productivity and an generally inefficient, ineffective health care system. I'd say the ONLY people who support our ridiculous system are the people getting rich on it. That's what I would say.

Quoted:
Honestly it's the one thing I agree with democrats about at this point

We neither have the votes nor the balls in the GOP to undo to last 50+ years of government interference in healthcare.  There is zero chance we will every reduce health insurance or premium costs in any reasonable way with the government controlled insurance system.

It's just a fact at this point that m4a is a better deal for everyone.  The taxes would be cheaper than premiums.  You'd no longer be held hostage at a job you hate because you have good insurance.  You could demand raises in place of what your premiums were which would be more than the tax you'd pay for m4a.       Yes care is rationed sometimes but never for serious issues in places where they have it.  Plus it's already rationed to some extent because people can't fucking afford it by the millions and we have been driven Into high deductible plans that still make us come out of pocket thousands of dollars on top of the thousands we spend for premiums

We lost the fight on affordable free market healthcare a long time ago and there's no going back to it.  For sure it would be better than m4a but it's never gonna fucking happen and m4a is better than the shit show we have now.

A larger number of people realize this every year as premiums keep rising and plans get shittier.  M4a will happen within a decade or two.  When you see it coming be a part of making it responsible otherwise the democrats will write all the rules of it and it won't be as good as it could be

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2. Universal Healthcare is nice in theory, but when they have to wait a month or more to be seen along with substandard care, people will start to think otherwise.

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People who are pushing the socialist healthcare bullshit?  Apparently health insurance companies are all a scam.  Medicare will save everyone with no downsides.  I could roll my eyes so hard my neck would break.

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I'd say that, collectively, Americans are paying more for health care in-total than any nation on the planet but we still have a shitton of Americans who can't afford health care. I'd say that if we just spent the money we already spend on health care, but did it intelligently, we could provide health care to all, no problem. I'd say our failure to provide health care to all is costing all of us a huge amount of money in increased premiums, lost productivity and an generally inefficient, ineffective health care system. I'd say the ONLY people who support our ridiculous system are the people getting rich on it. That's what I would say.

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Enjoy your big brother government.  

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Ask them what entitles them to another man's wages.

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They ruined social security. Why would anyone want them to ruin healthcare?

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I dunno, I've never had issues with mine.  I pay more for my car insurance and co-pays are all $20, which are rare anyway.

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Well, health insurance companies are a scam, in collusion with the .gov and the hospitals and pharmas.

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Or hospitals couldn’t charge $500 for two aspirin.

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Personally I don't believe in an absolute form of society/government. Some socialist elements can be effective, just as some areas are more conducive to a completely free-market solution.

Healthcare is an area where I think socialist principles could be a benefit.

I just got out of a 4 day hospital stay, I had a rhinovirus that caused my own immune system to attack my lungs. I have great insurance, but my CoPay is still going to be north of $6k. I'm lucky in that I can afford it, though it's not exactly comfortable, but for a lot of people that could be a life-altering bill.

There's got to be some middle ground on these issues, whether it's government funded research to reduce the eventual costs of medications and treatments, or some other kind of coexistence between the government and the free market, but healthcare isn't always something you can just do without if you can't afford it.

I don't know what the right answer is, but it isn't what we have now, and it isn't on either extreme either.

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People who are pushing the socialist healthcare bullshit?  Apparently health insurance companies are all a scam.  Medicare will save everyone with no downsides.  I could roll my eyes so hard my neck would break.

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I think a lot people who lean towards are people who have had a bad experience being burdened with medical bills.

I'll give a recent example . I had to go and get the series of rabies vaccines . I have health insurance but I can imagine if you had
a poor plan or none at all . The total bill for the shots and ER visit because that's the only place in a hospital they do it was $13, 545 .00
My insurance paid something like $12,400.00 but you receive  separate bills in the mail. ER, lab, room fee which I was in for 30 minutes

Then doctor fee . It was a bunch

You think the billing is done then every week you receive another bill in the mail  . I have no clue how much receiving a rabies vaccine should cost but I googled
what is used in it and it's pretty close to the same one my dog gets for $80 dollars

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Why should working people pay to provide health care for the super rich?

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These questions. Have they seen the VA ? How will you pay for it ? There is no right to healthcare.

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And how would you fund government operations? And spare us the suggestion that a huge sales tax would be adequate

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My niece got bit by a monkey while traveling somewhere in southeast Asia (no, she really did, and I don't remember what country). She had to get a series of rabies shots. She got all but one of the shots overseas but had to come home before she was scheduled for the last shot. I don't recall the exact details, but I remember her saying the cost difference between the first shots and the one she got in the United States was unreal. I'm making the numbers up but it seemed like she said the first three or four shots (or however many there were) cost her like $100 each, but the one shot shot she got in the U.S. was in the thousands. Again, I don't remember the details but I clearly remember her describing a HUGE price difference.

Quoted:
Honestly it's the one thing I agree with democrats about at this point

We neither have the votes nor the balls in the GOP to undo to last 50+ years of government interference in healthcare.  There is zero chance we will every reduce health insurance or premium costs in any reasonable way with the government controlled insurance system.

It's just a fact at this point that m4a is a better deal for everyone.  The taxes would be cheaper than premiums.  You'd no longer be held hostage at a job you hate because you have good insurance.  You could demand raises in place of what your premiums were which would be more than the tax you'd pay for m4a.       Yes care is rationed sometimes but never for serious issues in places where they have it.  Plus it's already rationed to some extent because people can't fucking afford it by the millions and we have been driven Into high deductible plans that still make us come out of pocket thousands of dollars on top of the thousands we spend for premiums

We lost the fight on affordable free market healthcare a long time ago and there's no going back to it.  For sure it would be better than m4a but it's never gonna fucking happen and m4a is better than the shit show we have now.

A larger number of people realize this every year as premiums keep rising and plans get shittier.  M4a will happen within a decade or two.  When you see it coming be a part of making it responsible otherwise the democrats will write all the rules of it and it won't be as good as it could be

Sorry, but you are incorrect when you say "We lost the fight on affordable free market healthcare a long time ago."  Research Direct Primary Care.  For specialists, there are plenty of "opted out" providers that you can negotiate with.  The reason that Federal involvement in healthcare is problematic is the same reason that federal government involvement with secondary and post-secondary education.  The majority of money (82%) goes to administrative burden.  Medicare forces every hospital that receives Medicare reimbursement to meet every administrative demand, or risk losing all funding.  That is simply wrong.  Healthcare should be regulated at the State level.  Ever wonder why states are allowed to administer the Medicaid programs, while the Federal government refuses to give up Medicare authority to states?  Demographics....