Lowest bid slime?


Pg 4 owned.

PFTE / PFPE greases are an animal in their own regard.  Super synthetics so to speak. Extremely expensive, no super down side to them.

Fairly new to the market place. Not widely adopted outside of niche industries where flammability, radiation, or extreme environments (space, deep under water, etc) require something like that.  

Just too expensive in any large quantities to use or be widely adopted.  The cost vs reward curve gets skewed in those situations.  In a situation where something is absolutely not serviceable... well yeah. Go for it.

Now you tell me, I just ordered a case of Mystic.

No kidding eh? I feel kind of foolish buying a couple cans of grease and a tube (with a screw cap not cartridge) myself but thankfully they're cheap enough that once they go bad I can replace for just a few bucks.

@Foxtrot08
Which polyurea grease would you recommend? I want to replace the grease in my drill, angle grinder, and rotary hammer (all Bosch with actual forged, hobbed gears) and the rotary hammer has been leaking as clearly the oil has separated from the thickener. I'm replacing the O-ring that seals the housing which contains the grease but it's obviously compromised. The grease mostly still looks smooth like soft butter but it's compromised. Do I want an EP grease for piece of mind, or is it not necessary for these applications (gears in power tools)? It looks like Mobil Polyrex EM is a top rated polyurea grease but looks like it's more for motor bearings. I want to extend the life of these tools as they are all high quality German and Swiss made products that were made with good parts and now are no longer made in either of those countries and with cheaper parts.

It’s multi-part.

PFPE as the soap/thickener.  

PTFE as the base oil.

Additives dialed in to meet its needs.

But it’s literally like $2500 for 5 gallon bucket.  One of the more expensive greases I’ve seen.

It’s extremely heat resistant.  It’s also basically fire proof.  So it would work great in cans. Just too expensive to use.

Everyone cloned Amacos polyurea. Which when Chevron bought amacos lubricant division, it became Chevron SRI grease.

Chevron SRI and P66 polyurea are extremely close. And I know the Shell one is too.  I do believe Mobil Polyrex is also close to it, but it’s the one I see the least.  

P66 polyurea and Chevron SRI are the most common in what I see.  The shell Gadus T100?  Or 220 would work.

Maybe go down to a NLGI 1 grade.

So EP polyurea isn't needed for this application I see. Makes selection easier.

My concern for a #1 grade is leakage. These gearboxes aren't really well sealed and as fast as they spin get hot quick and that exacerbates the leaking due to the grease "thinning" (for lack of better terminology) at temperature. Unless I have the second part of the previous sentence wrong?

This is quite frankly a fascinating trove of information and I can't believe you're answering questions at 3am. God bless you.

So there’s two ways to look at this.


1. Too heavy of a grease can cause more heat. (Friction)

2.  Too light of a grease can cause more wear.


But given the application and grease we’re talking about, I don’t see the need to get super exotic.

Chevron SRI 2 or P66 Polytac.  

If you wanted to go with an EP additive you could but it’s not required for your application in my opinion. If you put too much of a load on an angle grinder, the disk is the limiting factor.


Angle grinders spin at what, around 10,000rpm?

So yeah, polyurea is excellent in high speed applications.

Lemme see if I have any open cases of it Monday.

I found Chevron SRI grease on Amazon and it'll be here tomorrow so I bought a cartridge. About 2.5x the cost of standard grease but it was still only $13 so not a big investment.

The hard part will be getting all the old grease out of the tools, and with the nooks and crannies it'll be difficult. Would be nice to soak the gearboxes in solvent or spray solvent into them, but that isn't practical. If there is some left behind, and there will be, will it be THAT big of a deal? By some, I mean about as much as the cotton on a Q-tip in a space about the size of a golf ball. Lithium complex is what's in two of them now, possibly all three.

Or you could just mix your own with this and a grease of your choice.
Attached File

@Foxtrot08

Picked JT6 hi-temp #2 for all my greasing needs (u-joints, tie rod ends, splines, etc...)

JT6 multi purpose for everything else on my truck and jeeps undercarriage for its corrosion protection and anti-seize properties. I dont do water fording but it rains A LOT up here, plus I spray my undercarriage off all the time. Im wondering if JT6 marine grease would be a better choice?

Or is it a wash (pun!) between the two?

On my bicycle I use high temp wheel disc brake bearing grease.  Why?  cause its all I have

I should use marine grease.

TW25B

JT6 is a calcium grease.

Unless you’re going to be around water, specifically salt water, a lot, not needed.

Could you use the marine? Absolutely. But if you grease regularly, JT6 high temp and multi purpose will work fine.


For reference, I personally use in my entire truck fleet, P66 multiplex 600. Which is made at the mystik plant. And unofficially, the same as Jt6 HT just a different color.

For my guns? Pretty much whatever is on sale at auto zone. Been using the same tub of Motorcraft High Temp Disc Brake Grease for like 15 years on my favorite 1911 and various other guns.

It's not like it gets abused. A fire 2 or 3 range sessions, and it gets cleaned and relubed.

This. I have probably used ~10 or 20cc's out of a pint can I got about 2005.

Mixing stuff with grease seems really really sketchy to me.

Yup, and it is no where near the same as an actual Krytox type grease. For guns it probably wouldn't matter all that much though but I'd just as soon use a small tube of Krytox if I going to want that kind of performance. A a tiny tube still isn't that cheap but would last a long time for a few guns and be comparable in price to some of the boutique gun brand greases.

What's up with Marine grease?

Is this stuff actually special or just grease with blue dye?

Are there any non-Marine greases that offer the same high level of water resistance?

Normally either a Calcium Sulphate based grease or a Silicone based grease.


Yes.  There are non marine calcium and silicone greases.


Marine greases May also have additives that prevent the “sheen” or rainbow type appearance on water.

So basically it's just calcium grease dyed blue? I think I have some WD40 Specialist Multi Purpose I found on sale for a couple bucks a tube.

Blue, aqua blue, or green is typical for a “marine” grease color.  

I’ve also seen pink marine grease and purple.

Traveler moly grease #2 from Tractor Supply. Works well for a dozer and tractor. Love using a Ryobi elec grease gun with locknlube couplers.
Much easier with 30 or so grease fittings!

I’ve been using Schaffer 283 on backhoe and farm equipment.

They do not make a 283 anymore.  

238?


If it’s 238, sorry. Just light money on fire and you’re screwed.

@Foxtrot08

Since this thread isn't dead yet, what do you recommend for greasing suspension grease points on a large RV? My friend bought a 2006 and I doubt it's been greased either from the factory or a least in 10 years.

JT6 or something else? Moly necessary for this application or is that again more for construction type equipment?

JT6 will be fine.


Moly wouldn't hurt, but I don't think adds anything special.  Again, we use the P66 version of JT6 in my truck shop.  The heavy base oil, good water wash out resistance, that's what you're looking for.


Moly greases are truly designed for hard impact tools.  Jack hammers, bucket pins. Because their entire job is to literally be beaten.

Thank you sir

@Foxtrot08

What do you think about the FP-10/WeaponShield/EngineShield lubes?
The guy who made FP-10 went on to make the Weapon Shield oil. Any thoughts on that?

Pallets of grease anyone?


Customer order going out tomorrow.

I can't find anything about Engine Shield. So no comment on that.


FP10 is owned by Otis now.  Weapon shield is just a base oil, an EP additive of some sort (no product data sheet, so just reading the MSDS), a lubricity / anti scuff agent, and a corrosion inhibitor.   Assuming they didn't go too exotic, it's probably like a  ISO 5 or 10 oil.  So nothing wrong with it, probably works pretty well.   But I doubt it's anything super exotic.

Yea, 238. Is it crappy because you don’t carry it?

Thermalene Magnalube-G.  

I have been using this for years on handgun slides and barrel bushings.

It always stays in place and I have never had it burn off.  Take a look at the specs at the link.

I have used Dupont Krytox in some applications (dry film and grease).  The grease was used for low speed rollers in a film printer environment, so I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a handgun application.  I used the dry film inside AR15 upper receivers when I had a low cost source.  That shit be pricey.

No, it's not crappy.  I just said light money on fire and you're screwed.

It's a full synthetic Aluminum complex grease with moly. By definition, it's very good.

The problems with it are in the details. Aluminum complex greases are rarely used outside of food grade applications, extremely high heat (steel mills, aluminium melt shops, etc.) and extreme mining (hot, underground mining.)

Pros:
- Great for extreme heat applications.
- Great for high impact applications (like mining)
- Great for high moisture / water applications (such as food grade, underground mining, water based quenching.

Cons:
- Not GC-LB rated  - Bad for bearings, especially bad for high speed bearings.
- it has significant electric conductivity issues naturally.
- It can be extremely tacky with pumpability issues in cold weather. (Which is why they make it a full synthetic, to try to counter this issue.)
- It has extreme compatibility issues with other soap thickeners.  (Which is why you're screwed, I'll get into more later.)
- It is extremely expensive for what it is.

Why you're screwed:

Due to the compatibility issues associated with aluminum complex greases, you basically cannot change grease now. Especially in an application like a tractor. You would have to take apart the machine, clean the old grease out completely, then put whatever grease you're going to then use in. And make sure to purge the system with the new clean grease.  This makes it prohibitively expensive to change greases.  In the one Sand and Gravel yard that I supply all the other products with, they completely understand they're burning money with it now.  But they can't afford to clean/purge every grease fitting that has ever had it in it.  They've had a lot of issues with it in colder weather, but again... its cheaper to just warm everything up and run it, then rebuild everything.  But we've switched them to other greases in critical applications that it was causing issues in.  Such as their conveyor belt system, water pumps, electric motors, and all new equipment.

So you're paying ~$8-10 a tube, for a grease that offers, essentially the same protection as a $4 a tube grease.  However, you don't have another choice now, even if you wanted to switch.

Beyond that, the 238 is just an old formulation.  It's not really all that great of a grease in the scheme of things.  

Look at their #1 compared to this:

https://phillips66lubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Moly_Low_Temp.pdf

Their #1 grease is only good to 10f.  P66's is -30F. Big difference.


I can't recommend switching to something like P66's because, it's designed for arctic environments. Not everyday use.  And there isn't a demand for aluminum complex greases, because there's just better technology in Lithium and Calcium greases, for significantly less money and without the headaches that come with Aluminium greases.

I love this guy. No homo.

It's really nice that we have people on this forum who are SME and take the time and have the patience to educate the masses.

FWIW,
I got the gaskets and O-rings I ordered from Bosch for my tools in today and used the Chevron polyurea grease in them. Not sure if it's because it's new grease but they sound better already. Also cleaned a shit ton of dust and crud out of the tools in the process.

The rotary hammer I didn't replace the grease, even though that's the one I most needed and wanted to replace. The mechanism is so fucking complex that I about shit myself when I opened the housing. No way I was going to risk fucking it up cleaning all of the old grease out. Damn Germans and their monuments to their egos. I will have to call Bosch and see if I can get the grease they use for these and just add some so I don't have compatibility issues. For a city dweller I've got a bunch of grease now I'll have to find uses for.

It pumps horribly in the winter, I keep the tubes in a heated place before use. It’s nasty, makes a mess. But I cant see any wear in my backhoe that has essentially ran it for the last 3 years.

Now, why cant I use another grease? What would happen if I just greased more often this summer With another grease to work it out?

Fresh grease and cleaning the crud out goes a long way!

At worst:

Catastrophic failures will occur.  The greases will mix and turn into a solid.  Literally locking up any moving part. Providing no protection to non moving parts such as bucket pins.

At best:

Both greases will turn into liquid and drop out.  Meaning you would just have to actively grease until all the old grease and mixed grease is purged out, with only new grease remaining.


Which will happen? No idea. I’d have get a sample of 238 and whatever grease you want to switch to and have it tested.


Details of the testing and compatibility:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30727/determine-grease-compatibility

They phrase is much better than I do. But also much more long winded than I do. As I’m posting from a phone mostly or sometimes from my laptop.

Grease is a pretty wild world in terms of lubricants. People are so caught up by the passenger car motor oil market where at certain levels, everything is within a small percentage of being the same.  Such as synthetic blend 5w30 vs synthetic blend 5w30.  Or full synthetic vs full synthetic. The differences are so minor it’s hardly worth discussing.

With grease there is no real over reaching network or spec guidance, like the API and ILSAC, or even the oems.  There are certain Astm testing procedures. But that’s about it.  

We have grease custom made for some of our customers.  (Actually the one aluminum complex grease we move a lot of.  We order 20,000lbs at a time regularly.) Meaning, there is nothing else like it on the market.  Period.  

The differences between greases... can be extremely substantial.  Like the differences between metal working fluids. Again, no over reaching governing board.

Hope it makes sense.


The only areas I’d recommend moving away from the 238, is bearings.  Especially if you have a water pump or electric motor that you’re greasing.  You’ll wipe them out ASAP.  Same with trailer bearings or any real high speed bearings.

Well that sucks. What is lithium complex?

90% of the grease sold by volume today is a lithium complex grease.

Major lithium greases by volume:

Mystik JT6 High Temp (arguably the largest volume nation wide.)
Lucas red and tacky
MobilGrease XHP
Delgado Extreme duty
Shell Gadius whateverthefucktheycallittoday
Chevron Delo EP grease


Edit

Please note that chart is still a maybe. Product compatibility and reaction may differ from the chart.  Base oil compatibility, additives, etc. all differ.

I am being very cautious because I don’t want to be the guy on the internet that breaks your shit.

I get it, but you’ve made me aware of something I didn’t know I’m my 30 years of equipment use.

I suppose I could get some red and tacky and mix with 238 to see how they react. Or maybe it takes the ep of use to kick in their non compatibility. I have to order Schaffer as I dont know where its sold in stores. Lithium complex seems to be an easy one to get in a pinch

You're better off with the Mystik JT6 he listed. Lucas...
The Mystik you can find at any auto parts store.

Edit to correct typos

I always thought mystic was walmart grease.

My goal here is strictly education.

Whether you buy a product I recommend, or buy a product that I sell isn’t important.

I want people to understand why I recommend something.  What test to look for, what marketing to ignore. So they can make their own analysis of a product.  Then do their own cost benefit analysis.  

As yeah, a product I recommend might not be easy to get. Or might be more expensive. Or might be cheaper.  I don’t know.

I don’t want people to do as I say.

I want people to understand why, I say what I say.

Ive read moly grease is bad for bearings as it wont allow them to rotate, they winding up sliding instead?


Which is weird because Fords recommended grease for everything is moly grease

I'm a Dapper Dan man.

For ball joints a stuff with a zerk

Mystik JT-6 Multi-Purpose Grease #2

Been using TW25 for years. I buy the large squeeze tube and fill up syringes bought off EBay. Much cheaper than buying the TW25 syringe