I think deep down everyone knows that there is God. Some folks tend to think that they ARE God.

Of course not.  But if you truly want to make a persuasive argument against Islam you have to understand why people believe in the religion.  Islam proclaimed that it was God's final message to mankind through the prophet Muhammed.  As proof, Islam offered it's success on the battlefield.  For the first 1200 years, Islam had an almost unbroken chain of success against the infidels.  When Christianity leapt past Islam in the last two centuries, Islam was thrown into confusion.  Now that the western world is in the process of committing suicide, Islam has again felt confident enough to wage war against it.  Yet even then, it is maintained largely by the sword.

I think you should learn elementary level English before calling other people stupid.

We don't have enough information to prove that the sky is blue.  At some point, you have to make a conscious choice as to what seems like the best way to proceed.  

Correction in brackets.  Your sentence needs a verb there.  

Goose, gander, whatever.

>it's a "let's argue using the conception of religion that a 12 year old would create" thread

We certainly can't use any of the absolutely mind boggling ideas that are rooted in religions such as Christianity though, because obviously science makes a compelling case for the sanctity of the individual, that everyone is "created" equal, and most of the founding principals of the greatest nation on Earth.

The problem with rationalism and science based value centers is that people aren't rational, and science is in its infancy. Especially compared to religions which have been evolving in parallel with us over millions of years.

Unsurprisingly, some atheists have an issue with religion that is deeply rooted and manifested within their value system(not unlike hardcore evangelicals), thus lash out it, hilariously parodying their claims of "rationalism". It's no different then how cetain religious people lash out at all science.

Checkmate, atheists.

"why people believe in the religion."

Most people believe in religion because they're brainwashed into it. That's why religion is a very geographic-specific. It's not like people are making their mind up objectively in a vacuum. That's not even getting into the "Believe this specific thing or you'll BURN IN HELL FOREVER!!!!!", cult-like verses ("the more you're hated, the more you're really right!", "faith is evidence for things unseen", etc.) in the Abrahamic texts.

Islam wasn't exposed to the Enlightenment for hundreds of years, people (in general) don't have good critical thinking skills. Forgive me for getting on my Atheist high-horse, but I have no idea how many times I've had to explain how a scientific theory is different from a layman's definition of a theory, etc.

Religious fundamentalism is a rejection of Modernity.

In the West, Modernity/the Enlightenment won. The religious wand-waving about ignoring getting to the actual truth and instead believe these old lies failed. Like it or not, Christianity was similar to ISIS during the Dark Ages.

In the Middle-East, they tried Modernity (see Egypt, Iran, etc.), but they never really questioned their God, they just learned pharmacology/engineering/etc. without learning the humanities/critical thinking/etc. When things with Modernity didn't go well, they just went full Allah Ackbar (and people didn't have the tools to say "you're an idiot").

I'm hopeful with the Internet, that many will secularize (there's plenty of people in the Middle-East [Saudi Arabia, etc.) commenting on/interacting on sites like Youtube). The thing is their religion is pretty much a brown-skinned Evangelicalism where it's a very closed-minded system. If you attack them as a whole, you'll radicalize more people. "LOOK! WE'RE BEING ATTACKED! THE BOOK SAID THIS WOULD HAPPEN!!". You have to take jabs at specific claims (Quran talks of a literal world-wide flood, semen coming from the back, a literal first-person Adam and Eve [even though some try to make it work with a "God made man from clay" verse where microbes are], etc.).

The taboo about criticizing ideas/beliefs has to go. We live in a nuclear world (Pakistan already has nukes). Humanity is going to have to deal with other's sooner or later. I would much rather that be before more nuclear proliferation. Attacking people with a broad-brush (like it or not) just feeds religious fundamentalism, they thrive off of paranoia and being persecuted ("Look! The book said that it would happen!").

Same with all the religious people who somehow think their religion is the only way to get to heaven lol.  I'm a Christian, everyone else is going to hell.  I'm a Muslim, everyone else is going to hell.  I'm Jewish, everyone else is going to hell.

Why was Rene Descartes a devout Catholic?  Was the father of modern philosophy "brainwashed" into it?

We don't have enough information to prove anything (except "I think therefor I know" to oneself). One can have good objective evidence still. The things science talks about has good objective evidence (though science can go wrong, evolution by natural selection, helicocentrism, etc. is on solid footing. That's a long way away from "I'm very emotional/crying, so now this is true." You should be more skeptical about believing things for those kind of reasons.

We also see a blue sky, but the sky isn't really blue (it has to do with sunlight, etc.).

Should I argue for a still Earth? It doesn't seem like the world is moving.

OMG that is some true shit right there.

I said most people.

I do question though, would he have still been Catholic if he was born in China? The God/religion people have is very geographically-specific (which is kinda weird for a God to do).

I also believe Descartes was a weird deistic-like Catholic.

Regardless of my own beliefs or the beliefs of others, I just want to be left the fuck alone. My life is absolutely no one else's business. Stop hassling me. 

That is both my religious and political belief. What's that called? I need to know who to lump myself in with. 

Fuckoffitarians.

That's most people's conceptions of God/religion.



What founding principals did we get from Christianity? From what I see the First Commandment goes against the First Amendment. The founders were also largely theological liberals and deists, they weren't bible thumpers.

Look into Secular Humanism and The Moral Landscape.

The Enlightenment has been dragging religion kicking and screaming for the last couple hundred, after thousands of years of religious backwardness. Moderation is because of secular knowledge, not because people read the books harder. The civilization we made in the West is largely because of secularism/the Enlightenment/a moving away from religion.

We had morality and ethics before Christianity/Judaism. I really can't think of much new they added. We had civilizations in Rome (justice) and Greece (democracy) as well. We knew it wasn't good to kill and steal before Judaism/Christianity (though of course people still did it, same with the Jews and the Christians). It wasn't like Moses came down with the stone tablets and people were like "Oh! Killing people is wrong! Learn something new everyday!" either.

Sweet. Maybe needs a hyphen. 

Sure, I see the difference. And it strikes to the heart of the matter. But "do you believe X is less than Y?" is one way to phrase a question about a quantitative issue, and while it may sound like you're suddenly not responsible for the consequences of being wrong, it still has an accuracy rating.

I'm perfectly comfortable saying "I don't have enough information to put together a belief or case for either position" all the time. Maybe this is a different mindset thing.

I'm accustomed to being held accountable for the literal and exact opinions I have on objective questions and advice I give.

Do I believe there's a god? No, I don't. I've been given no rational reason to believe so. Do I know there's no god? Not really, I don't actually know anything because I have no information source I can really tap to give me any insight. Nobody does.

I give definitive yes or no questions regularly, but I also give "I don't have the information available to answer that" if I must. This isn't a waffling position, this is an objective and candid answer. Answering "oh I believe X < Y" when X turns out to be greater than Y just means I stated my incorrect belief with less commitment.

You can say the same thing about most atheists.  Most atheists are atheists because their fellow fedora-wearing compatriots are also atheists.  Most people are heavily influenced by their social class in politics, religion and philosophy.  As Plato explains, most of us are sufficiently entertained by the shadows dancing on the wall of the cave that we don't question them.   You seem to be operating under the illusion that atheists are acting according to reason while theists are just acting on some other motive, such as wishful thinking.  

I actually respect the muzzies more, even the snack bars....

How is faith not confirmation bias in a religious format?

How I picture 99.87% of atheists.....

Pre-Christian morality was almost entirely based upon pagan religions.  Greek law came from Zeus.  Roman law came from Jupiter.  Norse law came from Odin.    

But Zeus, Jupiter and Odin (as described) don't exist (to Christians especially). It's almost like people have to think.

What's Christian Western morality? What new thing was added?

It's great that you can make friends. Fundamentalist Christians and Muslims actually have a lot in common.

Sounds like the gay community and the "Look at me! Look at me!" snowflakes who are constantly seeking a news camera to proclaim their gayness in front of.

It incorporated a lot of Greek philosophical as opposed to religious thought.  As Nietzsche says, "Platonism for the People."  In particular, it questioned secular authority in a way that classical paganism did not, and set the stage for the Renaissance and Enlightenment.

But more fundamentally, no one has created a secular morality on a large scale that has been successful.  So far we have two examples, Leninism and Cultural Marxism.  

I spell like an atheist...........am I going to Hell?

 Is this a serious reply?


True how? 

Many simple experiments can be done for yourself if you need proof. Anyone who took high school physics or chemistry can attest to that. 

For more complex things that most people probably aren't able to test themselves the math and experiments and research and procedures and results are available for anyone to read. Whether or not you can understand it is on you. 

Sure they're are things that even to this day we don't understand. But anyone can go out and try to prove or disprove any theory they can come up with. The same can not be said for the Bible. 

Fixed.

Must have been overwhelmed by the sheer intelligence of the OP.

Wishful thinking.

Leninism is a socio-political theory. Morality was subordinate to Marxist thought.

Cultural Marxism is such a weird word. Is it criticizing Critical Theory? Psychoanalysis is definitely unfalsifiable garbage (though it made some good contributions). The mix of the words is honestly weird. Marxism views things in terms of economic class struggle, that's the be all and end all for them. Competing ideas/people/etc. not based on economics would be more Hegel.

Look into Sam Harris - Moral Landscape for objective secular morality.

Good objective evidence (that one can look into it/research/examine/ec.) is on the same level as "You just gotta have faith! Even if it goes against reality/good objective evidence! Even if it does sound blatantly contradictory and God supposedly wants people to know him (then it's mysterious!)." for them.

Those people have as much modesty as people who claim to know the nature of the universe with 100% certainty because God/The Bible tells them so.

In short, they are assholes, and they are a certain percentage of every population.

Look up the Dunning–Krugereffect. It will explain a lot.

I think deep down everyone knows that there is no God. Some folks tend to want to become the God.

Interestingly, the Parable of the Good Samaritan suggests you should help the person directly.  Re-meme?

Atheists are in general smart. The most developed countries are secular, whereas the most backwards are religious based.

But, people posting arrogant comments on a reddit section are probably full of themselves.

Had the thread been.

Why are Christians so smart?

Or

Why are Muslims so smart?

Or

Why are Buddhist so smart?

etc.

The thread would have been fragged before it started.  I would have to assume that in GD, Atheism is not a religion as posited by some religious posters.  

CoC violations?

"Atheist" is not a proper noun and should only be capitalized if it's the first word of a sentence. "Every" and "day" should be separate words in this instance. And since you are speaking of atheists in the collective singular, "are" should be replaced by "is".

You're welcome.

Show me an example of a successful atheist society.  The Second World collapsed.  The most secular states in the west like Sweden and Germany are committing suicide with their cultural marxist policies.  

what's wrong with praying?

That's about what I am! Why you laughing at me bro?

boy OP sure got em

edit- removed a letter to remove a reference.
I feel smarter having posted in this thread. 

Looks to me like a religion is what's destroying those secular states.

Nothing wrong with praying.  But to pull out that first meme, which shows a distinct lack of understanding about Christianity, as legitimate support for any position claiming to be based on understanding, is -- well, it is what it is.

0 for 2 with irrelevant memes.  What's next? 

Hear, hear!

The more religious western states such as the United States, Russia, and Eastern Europe have been the most successful in resisting the Muslim invasion.  

Dominant in what way? It is far from the biggest religion population wise, and it is probably loosing the largest amount of followers as time goes on. Most of Europe and the former European colonies are increasingly non-religious. As this trend accelerated, so has the quality of life (better health, lower murder rates, you name it).

Islam on the other hand is growing, and for the most part it is illiterate nobodies carrying the increased growth. The chances of some industry changing tech, medical breakthrough or similar coming from a majority religious country is becoming exceedingly thin. Even the Asian countries that are prosperous have a clear divide between religion and government. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore - you name it.

There is some truth in this, largely because rival religious beliefs are considered hostile. When most of the population doesn't give a damn (secular countries) they'll probably resist the least. That being said, at the end of the day, crime and whatnot carries determines what people want. Australia is though on immigration. Brexit largely took place because people were getting upset with the recent immigration situation in Europe. Then there is the Czech Republic, who recently told the EU to FOAD with it comes to gun regulations. Even secular people are getting fed up with a religion that is not compatible with the west or freedoms the developed world enjoys; whether you're in the US, Singapore (who saw this issue decades ago) or the UK.

How can you say they're on the same level?

In science even theories can be tested with actual repeatable experiments. How can you test what is in the Bible?

I think the "everyone believes in God but some reject him" idea is due to the fact that some people do just that.  Some people believe in God, are angry about something, and call themselves atheists.  


My life would be easier if I believed in God.  I've looked for that "even a little bit deep down" and it's not there.