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Archived [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Why are military pilots generally a higher rank officer? (Page 1 of 4)
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Posted: 7/31/2017 5:41:38 PM EST
I see a lot of majors and even colonels. What's the reason for this? What's the highest rank the Usaaf or usaf sends into combat?

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:42:31 PM EST
[#1]
Because they're trusted with expensive and powerful shit thousands of feet off the ground?
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:43:38 PM EST
[#2]
Would you give a Marine Lance Corporal an aircraft?

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:46:27 PM EST
[#3]
Experience is a good thing and people tend to rise in rank while they are acquiring it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:46:50 PM EST
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Would you give a Marine Lance Corporal an aircraft?
View Quote
Can't be much worse than 2LTs.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:47:44 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Because they're trusted with expensive and powerful shit thousands of feet off the ground?
View Quote
I get that, but it seems like a lot of them are over LT and in the major/col range

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:47:58 PM EST
[#6]
What? Rank of pilots in the Navy is O-1 to O-10.

CWO fly in other services,

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:48:24 PM EST
[#7]
Don't question the zipper suited sun gods. They all deserve 4 stars and designated parking spots at the commissary.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:48:46 PM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I get that, but it seems like a lot of them are over LT and in the major/col range
View Quote
Most are O3 and below. Active anyway. Guard and reserve are much higher. Usually.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:49:06 PM EST
[#9]
Because the Armed Forces reward valuable, highly trained people?
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:49:13 PM EST
[#10]
It takes a while to get through flight school. Most USMC pilots hit Capt right about the time they get to the fleet.

However in the Army the Warrants typically have more experience than the Commissioned types. It's actually fairly typical to have a CW2 as the pilot in command and a CPT or 1LT as a pilot.

ETA Pilots also have a much longer service commitment. When you have to stick around 6/8/10 years, you tend to be higher ranking. Ground types often get out after 4 and a much shorter training pipeline.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:49:26 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't question the zipper suited sun gods. They all deserve 4 stars and designated parking spots at the commissary.
View Quote
Could care less about stars but the CO/XO parking is so nice.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 5:50:42 PM EST
[#12]
I've flown with pilots that were full bird Colonels but the vast majority were 1LT's, Captains, and Warrant Officer 1-3's.

Of course my only experience has been Army Blackhawks.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:00:09 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Experience is a good thing and people tend to rise in rank while they are acquiring it.
View Quote
Yep
My bud has met or exceeded expectations along the way and others didn't
They are civilians now
That day may come for him one day but he is an 0-4 now and still going strong
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:10:17 PM EST
[#14]
I know several air force pilots and they're all O2s and O3s.  I think you'll usually make O4 at around 10 years in, which is right at the end of a pilot's commitment, and lots of them leave at that time.  You'll definitely have those who stay in and make higher rank, but I would bet that the huge majority are O2 and O3.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:10:45 PM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Because they're trusted with expensive and powerful shit thousands of feet off the ground?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Because they're trusted with expensive and powerful shit thousands of feet off the ground?
WW2 had enlisted US pilots too and those planes were very expensive in the 1940's.


Despite discrimination from some officers, 2,576 enlisted men are known to have graduated as sergeant pilots under this program. Ultimately they flew virtually all types of AAF aircraft.
Half of the first graduating class of flying sergeants went overseas with the P-38-equipped 82nd Fighter Group. Members of this class shot down 130 enemy aircraft, and nine became aces. In all, former sergeant pilots destroyed 249.5 enemy aircraft and 18 became aces flying fighters. William J. Sloan was the leading ace of the 12th Air Force with 12 victories. Four WWII enlisted pilots became general officers (seven pre-WWII enlisted pilots also became generals).

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:13:44 PM EST
[#16]
Uhhh... most AF pilots are O-1 to O3.

Majors and up are usually in leadership/management positions and do much less flying.

Understand that our wings are permanent, they are still "pilots" even once no longer actively flying aircraft on a regular basis.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:15:42 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Would you give a Marine Lance Corporal an aircraft?
View Quote
I had a "Turn-up and Taxi" license for A-4 Skyhawks as a Lance Corporal.

As for the high ranking officers, we had lots of Butter Bars that were pilots.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:18:30 PM EST
[#18]
Quoted:
I see a lot of majors and even colonels. What's the reason for this? What's the highest rank the Usaaf or usaf sends into combat?
View Quote


My dad was a Major General when we invaded Grenada.  He was on a combat mission. First general officer on the island, too.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:20:49 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


WW2 had enlisted US pilots too and those planes were very expensive in the 1940's.
View Quote
I don't think that's a real comparison...I have a suspicion the attrition rate and the need for pilots had a whole lot to do with that.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:24:40 PM EST
[#20]
Quoted:
I see a lot of majors and even colonels. What's the reason for this? What's the highest rank the Usaaf or usaf sends into combat?
View Quote


You do realize that the USAAF was split off into the USAF in September of 1947, yes?

That being said, as pilots rise in experience and time in service, they tend to rise in rank as was stated by others. As an armament tech, by far the worst pilots to work with to fix a fault are the staff officers who only fly enough to maintain qualifications.

Quoted:
Quoted:


WW2 had enlisted US pilots too and those planes were very expensive in the 1940's.
View Quote
I don't think that's a real comparison...I have a suspicion the attrition rate and the need for pilots had a whole lot to do with that.
View Quote
I still don't see why being a pilot requires officer rank. I've seen plenty of enlisted who have college degrees. Hell, I work with one now who is prior SF and has a Masters.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:24:49 PM EST
[#21]
Those college boys would get butt hurt if we let warrants fly zoomies.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:25:38 PM EST
[#22]
You see the higher ranks because they fly the higher profile missions that make the news.  Most of the pilots in my squadron were O-2 and O-3.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:27:26 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What? Rank of pilots in the Navy is O-1 to O-10.

CWO fly in other services,
View Quote
This. I'm my squadron we had ensign pilots. They weren't ensigns for long because it can take up to two years to go from commission to combat squadron. You hit LtJg at two years and Lt at 4 so most pilots are going to be 03 and above.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:28:32 PM EST
[#24]
This USAF brigadier general flew a B52 mission over 'nam.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:29:41 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Those college boys would get butt hurt if we let warrants fly zoomies.
View Quote
Not true. Flying...at least fighters, is a young mans game. Hell, select the best 18yr olds this country has and train em up.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:30:21 PM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You see the higher ranks because they fly the higher profile missions that make the news.  Most of the pilots in my squadron were O-2 and O-3.
View Quote
Ideally, its a leadership thing.  Something particularly difficult, dangerous, or politically sensitive.  You don't send someone else to fly a mission you wouldn't do yourself.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:31:49 PM EST
[#27]
Quoted:
I see a lot of majors and even colonels. What's the reason for this? What's the highest rank the Usaaf or usaf sends into combat?
View Quote




Theres even more junior officers behind the stick than O5/6s  Most of the pilots in my command are O4/3.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:32:03 PM EST
[#28]
My most recent flight review was done by a CFI whose day job was P-3 pilot.  He was an O-3.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:33:26 PM EST
[#29]
After 9-11-01 there were times when the O-6  Base Commander flew armed F16's  at 132 FW.  Far better to have a true bad ass lead you into battle.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:33:35 PM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


WW2 had enlisted US pilots too and those planes were very expensive in the 1940's.
View Quote
As did the Brits.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:37:23 PM EST
[#31]
If im not mistaken

the Brits still allow enlisted to fly!

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:37:37 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
After 9-11-01 there were times when the O-6  Base Commander flew armed F16's  at 132 FW.  Far better to have a true bad ass lead you into battle.
View Quote
We actually winced when the O-6 wanted to fly. It's because at those levels, they spend much more time doing admin than actually flying and skills deteriorate if you don't keep them up.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:39:46 PM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


We actually winced when the O-6 wanted to fly. It's because at those levels, they spend much more time doing admin than actually flying and skills deteriorate if you don't keep them up.
View Quote
Except for CAGs and DCAGs, most O6s days of tactical flying are over. And even CAGs will tailor the types of flying they do. You won't see many doing BFM, 2v1, etc. high G flights.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:42:12 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This USAF brigadier general flew a B52 mission over 'nam.

http://historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2009/Vietnam/Aug%202009/jimmy-stewart-vietnam.jpg
View Quote
Gotta love Jimmy Stewart...

I like this O-6 in 'Nam.


Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:43:06 PM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Gotta love Jimmy Stewart...

I like this O-6 in 'Nam.

https://t5.swiftpic.io/djd1HvZe-RD0Kp8pSPrSa1SP4AU=/2x217:1186x885/970x545//ata/img/56db36d7467f3.jpg
View Quote
Is that Robin Olds?
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:43:47 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Is that Robin Olds?
View Quote
Yes

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:45:06 PM EST
[#37]
Flyin' big aircraft ain't like driving a bus downtown.

And remember, they ALL started as lowly lieutenants. Most of the majors, lieutenant colonels, colonels and generals out there flying have tens of thousands of flying hours. That is a helluva lot of controlled take-offs and successful landings. Millions of air miles logged.

In this case, experience counts.

I for one deeply appreciate their concern for my personal safety having spent significant time being propelled through the sky with them at the controls.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:46:37 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I don't think that's a real comparison...I have a suspicion the attrition rate and the need for pilots had a whole lot to do with that.
View Quote
Yeah, your right. I am sure Nazi's pilots felt bad when they were not shot down by officers.  

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:47:35 PM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This USAF brigadier general flew a B52 mission over 'nam.

http://historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2009/Vietnam/Aug%202009/jimmy-stewart-vietnam.jpg
View Quote
wasn't that as a non duty observer?
(JS was my childhood hero)
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:49:36 PM EST
[#40]
Same reasons military doctors tend to start as O-3's.  Time in the training pipeline.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:49:45 PM EST
[#41]
If you were a fighter pilot would you settle for E-2 pay?
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:50:13 PM EST
[#42]
The USAF enlisted pilots now. http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2017/April%202017/Return-of-the-Enlisted-Pilots.aspx
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:52:00 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't question the zipper suited sun gods. They all deserve 4 stars and designated parking spots at the commissary.
View Quote
Don't forget the dedicated caddy.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:53:25 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Not true. Flying...at least fighters, is a young mans game. Hell, select the best 18yr olds this country has and train em up.
View Quote


That would be the Israeli model.  Can't do that, the knights of the sky, zipper suited sun gods, the exalted Air Force tactical and strategic experts, wouldn't allow it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:53:26 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Don't forget the dedicated caddy.
View Quote
Bullshit. I had to rent my own cart last weekend. Must be an Air Force thing.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:54:36 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The USAF enlisted pilots now. http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2017/April%202017/Return-of-the-Enlisted-Pilots.aspx
View Quote


Those dudes are the furthest thing from pilots.  The RQ-4 doesn't have a single aircraft control.  Might as well call the satellite operators "pilots" too.
Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:55:33 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That would be the Israeli model.  Can't do that, the knights of the sky, zipper suited sun gods, the exalted Air Force tactical and strategic experts, wouldn't allow it.
View Quote
In at 18, keep them in the cockpit with no more bullshit staff duty and war college and eliminate the bullshit collateral duties and GMT. Just fly and fight. But we need "well rounded people".

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:56:39 PM EST
[#48]
Better question is to ask how many are USAF Academy grads? The Zoomy Union is a close knit union.

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:57:44 PM EST
[#49]
Because they actually do something every now and then?

Link Posted: 7/31/2017 6:59:50 PM EST
[#50]
The Zoomie pilots I've BS'd with are Majors
Luke AFB, F-16 guys

Young guys, or at least compared to what I see in the mirror

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