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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:05:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electronics, no Chocolate, no Beer, no Wine, no Cars, yes Guns, yes Glass, yes So maybe 50% |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:05:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great ovens, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m sure they suck at making pizza Great ovens, though.  |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:08:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we could do without this German over-engineering https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/440308/Audi_S4_V8_Timing_chain_jpg-1471378.JPG The engineering is done to solve problems that aren't always obvious. Rear timing chains are quieter The space reserved for that engine required a pto drive to run accessories. The chains are really not that complex a system, having repaired those chains the engine removal is the most complex part. They are actually very reliable. One of the things often misunderstood is that the complexity is complemented by increaed functionality. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:09:16 PM EDT
[#4]
BMW and a Mercedes awful reliability...
/ thread |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:10:37 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:11:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: German beer and wine are both superb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Electronics, no Chocolate, no Beer, no Wine, no Cars, yes Guns, yes Glass, yes So maybe 50% |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:12:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The engineering is done to solve problems that aren't always obvious. Rear timing chains are quieter The space reserved for that engine required a pto drive to run accessories. The chains are really not that complex a system, having repaired those chains the engine removal is the most complex part. They are actually very reliable. One of the things often misunderstood is that the complexity is complemented by increaed functionality. Really hoping my timing chain tensioner doesnt ever go out in my 3.0 TDI Touareg. Its one tiny part behind the timing cover. My S2000 tensioner can be removed with one socket and a ratchet. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:27:17 PM EDT
[#8]
A German metallurgist could make the hardest steel ever known.
A Japanese engineer would figure a way to drill a hole in it. A Swedish machinist would build a tap and thread the hole. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:31:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I’ve bought a couple Ford products with 100,000 miles and gotten another 150,000 out of them with minimal maintenance.
No way in hell would I try that with a BMW. A buddy did and it ended poorly. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:36:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they werent really good at making war They were excellent at making war just not winning it. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:36:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Americans haven't proven too good at that for some time, either. 
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:37:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they werent really good at making war No they were very good at it. Just not good enough to make up for not knowing when to not make war |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:38:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m sure they suck at making pizza Great ovens, though.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:43:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A German metallurgist could make the hardest steel ever known. A Japanese engineer would figure a way to drill a hole in it. A Swedish machinist would go on vacation for 3 months, come back, take 15 breaks a day to paint dala horses, while selling any actually engineering to china Fixed it. I think you meant Swiss. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:51:27 PM EDT
[#15]
The best everything? No.
The Leopard 2 series MBT's are world class, period dot. The gun on it is used on OUR tanks, too. MG42/MG3? Two of the best MG's ever made, still in service. Other than that, I got nothing. I, too, am of Germanic descent and will say we are among the best Americans in the country. 
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Posted: 6/21/2020 10:54:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Over engineering is the only engineering.  Except when it's a Mistsubishi 3000GT... |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:07:20 PM EDT
[#17]
H&K , VOLKSWAGEN & BMW and german wine ALL suck balls
WALTHER & Mercedes ARE GOOD TO GO Other than that their beer schnitzel cabbage, and Pretzels are awesome 
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:09:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Used to, right?
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:11:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Ta-152
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:12:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Like their zinc framed guns?
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:12:46 PM EDT
[#21]
In film cameras, the German Zeiss' and Leicas were the standard in terms of workmanship and quality, they were built like a Swiss watch. In terms of optics ie lenses those two were the best, back then Lietz built lenses where all of the tolerances were to zero, ie tolerance stacking. Today Zeiss and Lietz spotting scopes are among the best. All of this quality comes at pretty hefty price.
But unfortunately in today's electronic cameras, the Japanese has it all over the Germans, the German didn't quite make the jump to electronics. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:13:37 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm just going to second the Pretzel thing. Best German thing ever.
That, and a good Bavarian Schweinhaxen. Tough to beat. Belgians and Czechs make better beer. Swiss make better chocolate... as do many Latin American countries now. But the Pretzel? Kudos Germans. You win that round. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:13:46 PM EDT
[#23]
Don't forget about the best dogs
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:17:23 PM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:18:11 PM EDT
[#25]
I like my guns American and my watches Swiss. Germany cannot compete with either.
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:20:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: As someone of German descent, I may be rather biased. That being said, it’s impossible to deny that they make good shit. Japs make it better! |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:21:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The last guy who said that went to prison. lol iunderstoodthatreffernce.gif |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:25:46 PM EDT
[#28]
I've worked for the largest German software country for 21 years (yes that one). Spent lots of time over there learning about how to work with the Germans. It was extremely educational, they take design in general really seriously. Software was engineered really well, so much so that our software is used to power a good bit of the electronic world.
But some parts parts of the biz, like UX and implementations, they kept out of and let consultants do it; oftentimes these consultants did not put in same amount of effort to make the implementations and UXs that good. When people say they hate the software, many times it's not the backend that the Germans designed, it's the implementation which ironically is often not a German company, quite frequently it's American and/or Indian. That was in the past though. Now Germany, like most other companies, is much more diverse than it was even 15 years ago. I've been on many projects with my German company where there were very few or even no Germans. It's completely global. I spend about 6 hours a day in calls with people all over the world and other than lots of different accents you wouldn't know it, we are all software nerds in the end. The old school "German engineering" principles are no longer dominant. I've been reflecting a lot about my experiences lately with all the race stuff. I can honestly say that I have worked with so many people over the years who I don't even know what "race" they are. Most times I don't even know what they look like. And I don't care. As long as they are good workers, race and country of birth means very little anymore in the digital world. Like it or not, we are all very much living in a global economy. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:31:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll give you the Swiss watches (even though Langes and Sinns are pretty nice), but Japanese cars are crude appliances. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’d take a Japanese vehicle over German any day of the week, and a Swiss watch over a German 9 times out of 10. I’ll give you the Swiss watches (even though Langes and Sinns are pretty nice), but Japanese cars are crude appliances. My Swiss watch keeps perfect time. My Seiko SARB runs fast. |
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Posted: 6/21/2020 11:37:06 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:04:08 AM EDT
[#31]
If you want a real answer, it boils down to these major things:
1. More than any other nation, Germany is designed for livability. Nothing there is brutally expensive, public transit even goes into small towns, they use apprenticeship systems and don't do massive college debt. This means the average blue collar guy can live a good, dignified life as long as the system works. 2. This is the biggie: like Japan, Germany has a very serious factory culture and their societies respect engineering and production work. If you've never been in a German or Japanese factory I highly recommend it. On average, they excel at creating evironments where workers genuinely care. 3. Germany and Japan are the kings of machine tools—the tools that make the goods you like. Fun fact, in WWII the U.S. only had two machine tool makers that were competitive with European makers: Cincinnati and Monarch are the unsung heroes of U.S. industrial might. Today, it's worse. There's just Haas, which represents the low and small end of the market. There's a strategic gap for you! 4. Germany has short supply chains, giving them tight control over input quality. U.S. manufacturing is often the opposite of that. Other notes: 1. German cars are as reliable as others, they just drive a ton better and have interiors made for humans instead of livestock. 2. German software sucks. 3. Real German cuisine is the most underrated cuisine of all. 4. While watching Swiss factory workers work, it dawned on me why Swiss stuff is so nice: they're as design-y as the French, as persnickety as the Germans, and as slow as the Italians. 5. U.S. guns are just better. For me: drive German, shoot American, bang Latina, marry Jewish 
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:05:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they werent really good at making war Good at it Not good at managing and winning |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:06:37 AM EDT
[#33]
They are the shittiest of the Axis powers in design or execution. Japan makes things very well with excellent engineering. The Italians make beautiful things. Germans copy other designs poorly.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:08:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: HKs are pretty dope.  Supa dope...my favorite. Walther kicks ass. Bohler steel knife blades are the best. BMW and Mercedes make some awesome rides. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:09:02 AM EDT
[#35]
That’s just an opinion. A 20 year old Camry with 300,000 miles on it will have more reliability than a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi with the same age and mileage.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:19:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are the shittiest of the Axis powers in design or execution. Japan makes things very well with excellent engineering. The Italians make beautiful things. Germans copy other designs poorly. Hmmmm... yeahhh...  The Germans invented the modern assault rifle StG 44, jet plane, gas engine, and started the only 2 world wars. What were you saying again??? |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 12:45:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, well, did they ever shoot a rocket to the moon? Oh, damn... 
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Posted: 6/22/2020 1:02:12 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg They also tend to overdo things some times. A Swiss (The more German part of Switzerland) Nuclear Power Plant was having higher rates of failure than the rest of the industry - turned out performing maintenance more often than required is worse for the equipment rather than better. Overambitiousness and overengineering don’t always lead to a better product - sometimes they certainly do, other times...not so much. It’s figuring out when it’s appropriate (I won’t claim H&K is better than other manufacturers, but they have some guns that are just tanks), and when it’s not (Let’s just say BMW, Mercedes, and Volkswagen aren’t the most reliable brands out there. Not the least...but not topping the charts by any stretch). |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 1:04:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg And then Nikonov said "Hey H&K, hold my vodka" and added a cable and some pullies. Mike |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 1:09:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmmm... yeahhh... https://media1.tenor.com/images/8dc39ada8a14db340d606476639ca8b8/tenor.gif?itemid=12024918 The Germans invented the modern assault rifle StG 44, jet plane, gas engine, and started the only 2 world wars. What were you saying again??? World War was invented by Genghis Khan. (I might allow the French some credit with both the Seven Year’s War and the Napoleonic Wars.) M1 carbine predates the STG. The intermediate cartridge concept was invented in the US Civil War with the advent of the .56-56 Spencer and the .44 Henry. Worth Reading. So, did they really invent anything? They did beat the British to the jet and then joined a world war without an operational unit.  I will graciously allow the Germans blame for global warming with the internal combustion engine. I won’t bring up the patents of John Barber or Thomas Mead. 
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Posted: 6/22/2020 1:35:42 AM EDT
[#41]
They don't, the Austrians and the Swiss do it better.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:13:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They may overengineer but they also innovate. Also, they don't make the best stuff. Compare a Lexus to a Benz or BMW and see who performs better and has better maintenance. Put an M1911A1 up against a Luger or a P-38, a Focke-Wulf up against a P-51. Depends on the variant. The Fw 190D-9 was more than a match for the P-51D. But most of Germany's capable pilots were dead, crippled, or captured by that point in the war. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:23:05 AM EDT
[#43]
Decades (1970s) ago I was attending a factory tech training class for the medical equipment manufacturer I worked for. The head of the training department was a late 50s feisty 5'5" WWII combat vet (Europe). We had partnered with a German company to distribute and sell in the US a combination surgical and radiology table they just came out with. And they sent a couple of German engineers to demo their table.
They were showing all the features and demonstrating the movements, and said "Here is Trendelenburg and we can go to Reverse Trendelenburg without reversing the motor or shifting gears." One of the class attendees said "How do you do that?" The German engineer tapped his head and said "That's why we're so smart." The head of the training department stood up, looked at the German engineer and said "If you're so smart, how come you lost the f------ war?" The class broke up. He didn't like the Germans very much. The table worked well, but was over engineered. Expensive AND required WAY too much time to maintain. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:32:29 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that a clock? |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:35:30 AM EDT
[#45]
A Belgium Browning is a thing .
Attention to detail? Don't know the term good enough? |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:35:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they werent really good at making war They almost won twice...against... THE WORLD. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 2:47:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, well, did they ever shoot a rocket to the moon? Oh, damn... They did, but it had American flags painted on it. I just bought a ridiculously overpriced collapsible G36 stock. The stock has a big window in it so when folded, the shells eject through the hole...but in the two shortest positions, it blocks the ejection port when folded...so the Germans developed a mechanism to nerf the stock folding button if it was on one of the two short positions. Most guns have an angled hinge so the stock doesn't block the ejection port. I can imagine more than a few people who were not instructed on that feature have hammered on the stock folding button trying to get it to fold. |
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Posted: 6/22/2020 3:17:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that Real?  . I don't even know what to say.
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Posted: 6/22/2020 3:19:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that Real? . I don't even know what to say.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of it is difficult to work on though. A lot of German designers don't understand "Keep it simple". Example, the HK G11's action. What the hell were they thinking? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468179/B243733F-C57B-479F-8F2A-F7238F61680D-761139.jpg Is that Real? . I don't even know what to say.Very real, and not a full view of the entire mechanism. 
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Posted: 6/22/2020 3:42:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: As someone of German descent, I may be rather biased. That being said, it’s impossible to deny that they make good shit. I agree. And I may also be biased. But I have fired a lot of weapons, and this one is superb.  Attached File |
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