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Posted: 6/9/2021 10:21:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Nazis ^2.
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Posted: 6/9/2021 10:23:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Cliffs?
Bunkers on top of Cliffs? And more cliffs to climb up |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 10:24:41 PM EDT
[#3]
The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2.
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Posted: 6/9/2021 10:39:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. Omaha Beach was five miles long. No way that guy accounted for over half the casualties. |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 10:53:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. Shit, if I was on Omaha beach I wouldn't take the time to talk to a researcher. Maybe that's why they got shot?? |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:00:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Biggest beach, cliffs, best defense, confusion in the landing (tides and wind blew landing craft of course) tanks didn't make it onto the beach...
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:08:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Fewer places to cross inland and the Germans fortified these avenues well.
Pre H-Hour bombardment didn't destroy as many gun emplacements as the other beaches. DD Tanks and artillery support didn't make it onto the beaches. |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:09:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Omaha was more heavily defended than the other beaches. There were more troops, machine guns, and light artillery.
What also really favored the defenders was the topography of the beach - it's concave with higher bluffs. This allowed the Germans to set up more enfilading fire positions and have better observation for directing artillery and mortar fire on the beach. |
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:10:27 PM EDT
[#9]
If you haven't been, go. I only gotb1 day there, but could go back to the coast for a week.
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:12:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Cliffs are a bitch
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Posted: 6/9/2021 11:17:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Saving Private Ryan gives kind of a misleading picture of Omaha Beach. The parts where guys really got chewed up pretty much remained closed until their buddies, lucky enough to hit parts of the beach relatively undefended, rolled up the Germans. Apparently commanders watched the first wave and only backed up areas where the beach turned out to be manageable.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:36:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. You realize that the total killed at Omaha Beach was less than 1000 right? 
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:42:19 AM EDT
[#13]
I thought I read the tide was low enough to substantially increase the amount of beach that needed to be crossed as well?
Not sure if this is accurate but it makes sense. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:50:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You realize that the total killed at Omaha Beach was less than 1000 right? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. You realize that the total killed at Omaha Beach was less than 1000 right? Was the beast an ex-Soviet recruited into the wehrmacht? They had a lot of former Soviets and Poles who fought there against the Americans. If Soviet, then you can understand the figure of 3000. Soviet math best math. 
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:56:27 AM EDT
[#15]
I've walked Omaha. It really is a small area considering all that was crammed into it. It's also a natural ambush pocket, the beach curves. From water to the area behind the dunes is less than 200 yards.
The "Beast" story is bullshit by the way. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:57:20 AM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:57:38 AM EDT
[#17]
"The Beast" was real but I suspect the body count was sensationalized unless it also took in the wounded.
On the 6th of June 1944 at around 5 a.m. the first shots started to ring out across Omaha beach. Wave after wave of American Higgins Boats landed on the beach. Severloh would take the initiative here with his Lieutenant telling him to not stop firing until they ran out of ammo. The defence was hectic with Severloh manning an MG42 which was supplied with ammunition by a sergeant that Severloh didn’t know. Between the waves of American troops, the barrel of his MG42 had to be swapped out with one of the 3 spare barrels he cycled throughout the defensive, often the just used barrel would burn the grass that it was rested on due to the sheer amount of ammunition which passed through it. As well as letting the barrel cool down in between waves of troops Severloh would take breaks and shoot at the oncoming wave with his Karabiner 98k to allow the MG to cool down. Overall after 9 hours of continuous fighting Severloh would fire 13,500 bullets out of his MG42 with another further 500 fired out of two Karabiner 98k rifles. In this time he killed an estimated 1000+ American soldier with some estimates putting that number up as high as 2000. https://historyofyesterday.com/the-beast-of-omaha-63a2e20f7917 |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 9:58:24 AM EDT
[#18]
The photos and films really don't give a good perspective on just how big Omaha beach really is, especially how deep it is and the terrain.
I've been to the area a few times, the first time I saw it was on a tour and we had some vets with us. When I saw it I said "fuck me" and the old guy next to me said "yeah, you didn't have to land on it." They only thing he ever said during the tour was that the weather was much nicer this visit. He was in the 2nd wave. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:00:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The photos and films really don't give a good perspective on just how big Omaha beach really is, especially how deep it is and the terrain. I've been to the area a few times, the first time I saw it was on a tour and we had some vets with us. When I saw it I said "fuck me" and the old guy next to me said "yeah, you didn't have to land on it." They only thing he ever said during the tour was that the weather was much nicer this visit. He was in the 2nd wave.  |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:00:59 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was the beast an ex-Soviet recruited into the wehrmacht? They had a lot of former Soviets and Poles who fought there against the Americans. If Soviet, then you can understand the figure of 3000. Soviet math best math. Are You SURE he wasn't a Korean, who was forced into the Imperial Japanese Army, who then was captured by the Soviets in the Far East, and then forced to fight for the Red Army until captured by the Nazi's in combat and then inducted into the Wehrmacht and manning Normandy Beach defenses until captured by Americans?? 
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:04:40 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "The Beast" was real but I suspect the body count was sensationalized unless it also took in the wounded. On the 6th of June 1944 at around 5 a.m. the first shots started to ring out across Omaha beach. Wave after wave of American Higgins Boats landed on the beach. Severloh would take the initiative here with his Lieutenant telling him to not stop firing until they ran out of ammo. The defence was hectic with Severloh manning an MG42 which was supplied with ammunition by a sergeant that Severloh didn’t know. Between the waves of American troops, the barrel of his MG42 had to be swapped out with one of the 3 spare barrels he cycled throughout the defensive, often the just used barrel would burn the grass that it was rested on due to the sheer amount of ammunition which passed through it. As well as letting the barrel cool down in between waves of troops Severloh would take breaks and shoot at the oncoming wave with his Karabiner 98k to allow the MG to cool down. Overall after 9 hours of continuous fighting Severloh would fire 13,500 bullets out of his MG42 with another further 500 fired out of two Karabiner 98k rifles. In this time he killed an estimated 1000+ American soldier with some estimates putting that number up as high as 2000. https://historyofyesterday.com/the-beast-of-omaha-63a2e20f7917 Total and complete garbage. Maybe a quarter of those numbers. Maybe. "The V Corps history gave figures of 694 dead, 331 missing and 1,349 wounded, a total of 2,374, the highest suffered on any of the D-Day beaches, and most later sources give a higher figure for the dead. A very high proportion of these casualties were suffered by the first attack wave, and it is this image of the battle that has stayed in the memory (most notably as the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan). Even so, the entire D-Day landings succeeded at a much lower cost than anyone had expected, even on Omaha Beach." http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_omaha_beach.html I'm not trying to downplay the bravery needed to walk off the ramps of those landing craft, but about 1 in 50 men were killed on Omaha Beach. That number is lopsided with the first wave taking very high casualties and later waves walking off the ramps more or less unopposed. Remember that 34,000 men landed on D-Day. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:06:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Biggest beach, cliffs, best defense, confusion in the landing (tides and wind blew landing craft of course) tanks didn't make it onto the beach... To add to this, at Utah the pre-assault bombing was assigned to 9th AF B-26s that went in under the clouds and put the bombs where they were needed. The 8th AF heavies at Omaha were not trained or equipped for low altitude bombing and offset their aim points inland to avoid fratricide while bombing through clouds. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:08:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are You SURE he wasn't a Korean, who was forced into the Imperial Japanese Army, who then was captured by the Soviets in the Far East, and then forced to fight for the Red Army until captured by the Nazi's in combat and then inducted into the Wehrmacht and manning Normandy Beach defenses until captured by Americans?? This guy? http://ww2images.blogspot.com/2013/04/korean-yang-kyoungjong-captured-in.html The Beast. Severloh was born into a farming family in Metzingen, Lüneburg Heath situated in North Germany. He did not lead a remarkable life in his younger years, with his family benefiting from Hitler’s push to rearm which led to much money being poured into farmers such as Severloh’s family. As most other men of fighting age Severloh was conscripted into the Wehrmacht on July 23, 1942, at the age of 19. Severloh was assigned to the 19th Light Artillery Replacement Division in Hanover. He was then transferred to France in August to be trained until December after which he was sent to the Eastern Front where he was assigned to drive the sleighs of his division. Later into his service on the Eastern Front, he would become dissatisfied with the life of a Wehrmacht soldier leading to him making “dissenting remarks” which led to him being forced to perform strenuous physical tasks which left him with permanent health problems and put him in hospital for the next 6 months. After leaving the hospital he took a break to help his parents with the 1943 harvest. This break wouldn’t last long as he would be immediately recalled for service in Normandy where he would make his name well known to the Allied troops. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:08:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. That guy is full of shit. He killed all these people, but retreated to a village where he was later caught? However, everyone else that was with him was killed at their post. Sounds like he ran and made up a bullshit story later in life. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:10:14 AM EDT
[#25]
A LOT of factors, as mentioned earlier (with the exception of the "Beast" issue, all are generally correct, with the Beast naturally being open for significant debate). Another factor (regarding UTAH) was 4th ID, through the luck of the draw, had more adaptive leaders at all levels; from a CG who drilled into his leaders the importance of aggressively seizing the three beach egresses at all costs, an experienced Deputy Commanding General (who was the only GO on D-Day who went in with the first wave) who literally directed traffic while walking through interlocking machine gun fire, and a series of excellent subordinate leaders who had completed two rehearsal landings (as opposed to one for over half of the NORMANDY force). Also, the swift-moving current that made a hash of the first two waves at NORMANDY had opposite effect at SWORD, JUNO and UTAH when it pushed the initial assault forces into more favorable disembark positions as opposed to their templated landing sites.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:10:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Have you ever been to Nebraska?
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:11:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Omaha Beach was five miles long. No way that guy accounted for over half the casualties. Depends on where he was placed and where the troops kept landing? |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:14:05 AM EDT
[#28]
The sad thing is that it is quite possible that the Allies lost more men in Excercise Tiger training for D-Day than were actually lost at Omaha Beach.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:14:48 AM EDT
[#29]
Was Omaha truly essential if the other landings were softer?
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:21:38 AM EDT
[#30]
I’ve been there. The terrain is mainly bluffs. Omaha had to be taken because it would have made too wide a gap between Utah and Gold that the Germans could send forces into to cut the Allied landings in half.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:21:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on where he was placed and where the troops kept landing? It's possible, but not likely, that he shot several hundred people during the first wave that took most of the casualties that day. Looking at actual casualty reports and unit histories most of the people shot didn't die. You can subtract from the casualty list known documented instances like the 33 men lost when their tanks were launched too far from the beach and sank. That leaves around 500 deaths or so that would even be possible for him to be responsible for. The numbers just don't make sense. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:24:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beast of Omaha Beach. Supposedly killed over 2000 by himself. One American researcher said The Beast had killed over 3000 after he did interviews with the survivors before they all died. Do a web search but its very hard to get honest answers about anything related to WW2. 
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#33]
Almost all the tanks sank on the way in. That didn't happen on the other beaches so troops has some cover crossing the open beach.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:25:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Pill boxes? Wall defenses? concrete? beach obstacles?
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:30:08 AM EDT
[#35]
The tactical low level bombers who were tasked with hitting the German fortifications encountered low clouds. The bombers who hit the Utah Beach fortifications went on down anyway below the clouds and hit their targets while the bombers who were assigned to Omaha simply dropped their ordnance thru the clouds from a higher altitude and missed the fortifications. The result was carnage on Omaha Beach.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:30:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought I read the tide was low enough to substantially increase the amount of beach that needed to be crossed as well? Not sure if this is accurate but it makes sense. I visited Omaha Beach about 10 years ago. I was struck by the long distance from the waters edge to the beginning of the bluffs where you could get some protection. The beach was so wide that they were running sail scooters (wind driven three wheeled) back and forth the beach. I could only imagine what was going through their minds when they were running up that long beach totally exposed the entire time. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:31:31 AM EDT
[#37]
The Germans had a very good defense plan for Omaha beach.
When you are on a landing craft with the front that opens and right in the sights of a machine gun in a bunker it's going to be a very bad day. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:31:42 AM EDT
[#38]
I thought there was one particular German large gun emplacement inland which was not bombed at all, and accounted for many casualties that day?
Also - I read that the clouds either forced bombers to drop from higher up (reducing accuracy) or fly low, which caused some of the bombs to fail to detonate / fuses were set wrong for the altitude. Any truth to either of these? |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:33:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nazis ^2. The got Damn Germans got |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:34:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The tactical low level bombers who were tasked with hitting the German fortifications encountered low clouds. The bombers who hit the Utah Beach fortifications went on down anyway below the clouds and hit their targets while the bombers who were assigned to Omaha simply dropped their ordnance thru the clouds from a higher altitude and missed the fortifications. The result was carnage on Omaha Beach. The stories of some of the naval fire support ships almost running aground in order to provide direct fire is incredible. German guns could go right through most of those ships and the risk they exposed themselves to in order to protect the landings is a prime example of courage and bravery. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:40:58 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends on where he was placed and where the troops kept landing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Omaha Beach was five miles long. No way that guy accounted for over half the casualties. Depends on where he was placed and where the troops kept landing? I’ve seen people do an analysis on where he was vs what units landed near him and so on. Guy is completely full of shit. 100-200 is possible, but 1-2k? Absolutely not. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:47:42 AM EDT
[#42]
I read a story from one the landing craft pilots. I am not sure which beach but his craft was one of the first to hit the beach. From the story they dropped the ramp and wound up being a very bad spot. There where 3 mig42 directly inline with the ramp. The mg's all shot in to the craft, the pilot bailed out the back of the boat. He wound up hiding behind the craft until others came in, he crawled back on the boat and stated as far as he could tell no one made it off the ramp. Even his crew was dead.
That was what 40 or so dead in seconds. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:53:26 AM EDT
[#43]
I don't have my books in front of me, but IIRC Omaha had better German army units there. Some of the other beaches were defended by conscripts from Poland and shit who would've surrendered right away if they hadn't had German NCOs behind them ensuring they did something.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:55:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought there was one particular German large gun emplacement inland which was not bombed at all, and accounted for many casualties that day? Also - I read that the clouds either forced bombers to drop from higher up (reducing accuracy) or fly low, which caused some of the bombs to fail to detonate / fuses were set wrong for the altitude. Any truth to either of these? Yeah, the bombers missed the beach. And the pre-invasion bombardment didn't do much until DD's got in close and started swapping shells with targets they could see. IIRC, from The Longest Day, one of the Germany beach defense commanders was in a forward bunker for the shelling and figured it was so bad that his defense would be impaired, but when he checked his units he discovered everybody was okay. ETA: Basically on Omaha nothing went as it was supposed to. I normally do not like SLA Marshall, but I figure some oral history is fine: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1960/11/first-wave-at-omaha-beach/303365/ |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 10:59:10 AM EDT
[#45]
The German division defending Omaha was recently transferred from the Eastern Front to Normandy to rest and rebuild. I think that had a lot ot do with the tougher defense they put up.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:34:45 AM EDT
[#46]
The Beast's numbers are clearly exaggerated, but it's a reasonable exaggeration. If he lined up his MG when the ramp dropped, fired, and nobody made it to the beach you can reasonably think you killed everyone, even if most had survivable injuries. A Higgens boat carried 36, easily overestimated to 50. Point your MG at 20 boats and in your mind you just killed 1000 people.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:36:02 AM EDT
[#47]
If memory serves, unlike the other beaches the amphibious tanks for Omaha were dropped too far out and sank. As such the troops had no cover or support.
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:38:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are You SURE he wasn't a Korean, who was forced into the Imperial Japanese Army, who then was captured by the Soviets in the Far East, and then forced to fight for the Red Army until captured by the Nazi's in combat and then inducted into the Wehrmacht and manning Normandy Beach defenses until captured by Americans?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Was the beast an ex-Soviet recruited into the wehrmacht? They had a lot of former Soviets and Poles who fought there against the Americans. If Soviet, then you can understand the figure of 3000. Soviet math best math. Are You SURE he wasn't a Korean, who was forced into the Imperial Japanese Army, who then was captured by the Soviets in the Far East, and then forced to fight for the Red Army until captured by the Nazi's in combat and then inducted into the Wehrmacht and manning Normandy Beach defenses until captured by Americans?? Might have been if he was in the Soviet Union and Red Army long enough to learn Soviet Math. There's a discussion on Red Army sniper "scores" in Chapter 8: Drang nach Osten! (drive on the East). |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:38:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Why didn't we just ignore the heavy fortified beach and triple stacked one of the smaller ones
I never understood the waste of life in war. Hey, there's this heavily fortified base/bunker/sector we have to fight through it. Go around Flank ? ? Attack a smaller area? |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:48:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why didn't we just ignore the heavy fortified beach and triple stacked one of the smaller ones I never understood the waste of life in war. Hey, there's this heavily fortified base/bunker/sector we have to fight through it. Go around Flank ? ? Attack a smaller area? Envelopment of a hardpoint is a very viable tactic when applicable. However we had no idea how successful the landings would be (as well as the airborne operations) so a continuous front was more preferred than breaks in the line, which could have allowed the Germans to exploit and defeat in detail other beaches. No one knew for sure we'd be through the Atlantic wall in a few hours, half a day even at Omaha |
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