Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 12
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:19:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


the earth is billions of years old.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
God is amazing isn't He!


the earth is billions of years old.

I would say that that is possible yes.

Edit: Give or take fifty million years as the current scientific method suggests.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:25:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Of course not.  Creation.com has outright lied many times.  Show me an original source, an autobiography or a biography by a reliable source that says "so and so believed the universe was created 6,000 years ago" or just drop it.  You're simply wrong.  At some point, you're going to step from wrong into deceptive.
View Quote
Here, I did a quickie search and came up with this...it's Google doing this.

The German scientist Johannes Kepler (1571-1630), for example, calculated that the Earth was created in the year 3993 BC and Isaac Newton, (1642-1727) believed it to be 3998 BC, but two people famous for dating the age of the Earth were James Ussher and John Lightfoot.

The first edition of the Encyclopedia of Britannia 1771 talks about the general church view, and Christian scientists were in the church, of a young earth. It has been the general view of believers for almost 1850 years.

Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:26:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


the earth is billions of years old.
View Quote
Yeah...we disagree.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:29:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Have you heard of Argument from authority?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:30:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Have you heard of Argument from authority?
View Quote

Go on.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:30:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah...we disagree.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


the earth is billions of years old.
Yeah...we disagree.



Unless you provide evidence which contradicts the existing evidence and explains why it doesn't prove what the vast majority of geologists think it proves, you don't get to "disagree."
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:32:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Go on.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Have you heard of Argument from authority?

Go on.

It wasn't a trick question.

An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam (argument against shame), is a form of fallacy when the opinion of a non-expert on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument or when the authority is used to say that the claim is true, as authorities can be wrong.[1] The argument can be considered sound if the authority is an expert and when all sides of a discussion agree on the reliability of the authority in the given context, and if the argument does not rely on the authority to establish truth.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:32:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here, I did a quickie search and came up with this...it's Google doing this.

The German scientist Johannes Kepler (1571-1630), for example, calculated that the Earth was created in the year 3993 BC and Isaac Newton, (1642-1727) believed it to be 3998 BC, but two people famous for dating the age of the Earth were James Ussher and John Lightfoot.

The first edition of the Encyclopedia of Britannia 1771 talks about the general church view, and Christian scientists were in the church, of a young earth. It has been the general view of believers for almost 1850 years.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



Of course not.  Creation.com has outright lied many times.  Show me an original source, an autobiography or a biography by a reliable source that says "so and so believed the universe was created 6,000 years ago" or just drop it.  You're simply wrong.  At some point, you're going to step from wrong into deceptive.
Here, I did a quickie search and came up with this...it's Google doing this.

The German scientist Johannes Kepler (1571-1630), for example, calculated that the Earth was created in the year 3993 BC and Isaac Newton, (1642-1727) believed it to be 3998 BC, but two people famous for dating the age of the Earth were James Ussher and John Lightfoot.

The first edition of the Encyclopedia of Britannia 1771 talks about the general church view, and Christian scientists were in the church, of a young earth. It has been the general view of believers for almost 1850 years.


And this may be the problem with your particular stance concerning a young earth.

Their information or views may be antiquated as some of them likely are.

A likely evolutionary step in human discovery and understanding to the present day.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:36:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Brother, I'm going to be brutally honest here. It is attitudes like yours that drive people interested in Christianity away from it.

Being so vehemently against anyone and everyone that has a different perspective on something that isn't fundamental to the teaching of Christ is purely driving a wedge where it isn't needed.

Paul mentions how to handle this in Romans 14.
View Quote
You've got to be kidding, right? I put up an article for, primarily believers to read and wrestle with, and a torrent of vitriolic posts follows. I have disagreed politely with people, and I'm called ignorant and a gaslighter, and other things. If people reject Christ, do you think on judgement day they'll be able to get away with "But Tom put up an article about an in house controversy on OE, YEC, and it upset me, so I rejected Jesus, it's Tom's fault". To say anything about Christ these days sets unbelievers in a tizzy, pretty much like Jesus Himself, had to withstand the vitriol of unbelievers, or Paul being stoned for preaching the gospel.

Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:39:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

No one is saying that there wasn't a first two.

Belief in God to many people is important.

Many people also believe that the word of God is important as I do also.

However, their are times in a person's life where the possibility exists that we must go about certain matters with a measure of faith as the situation calls for it to be exercised.

But, not exactly every time.

Viable science works and I don't think that many people would deny or disagree with that.
View Quote
I have no problem with operational science, the kind that makes stuff, that's different from historical "science" that generally tries to determine origins, that I have a problem with.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:39:23 PM EDT
[#11]
I took my Seiko watch off and handed it to my young earth brother in law.  
“You tell God what time it is!” I said “I’m not that bold!”

None of us know what time schedule God uses.  It certainly isn’t our puny time clock.  That is man centered hubris.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:39:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You've got to be kidding, right? I put up an article for, primarily believers to read and wrestle with, and a torrent of vitriolic posts follows. I have disagreed politely with people, and I'm called ignorant and a gaslighter, and other things. If people reject Christ, do you think on judgement day they'll be able to get away with "But Tom put up an article about an in house controversy on OE, YEC, and it upset me, so I rejected Jesus, it's Tom's fault". To say anything about Christ these days sets unbelievers in a tizzy, pretty much like Jesus Himself, had to withstand the vitriol of unbelievers, or Paul being stoned for preaching the gospel.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Brother, I'm going to be brutally honest here. It is attitudes like yours that drive people interested in Christianity away from it.

Being so vehemently against anyone and everyone that has a different perspective on something that isn't fundamental to the teaching of Christ is purely driving a wedge where it isn't needed.

Paul mentions how to handle this in Romans 14.
You've got to be kidding, right? I put up an article for, primarily believers to read and wrestle with, and a torrent of vitriolic posts follows. I have disagreed politely with people, and I'm called ignorant and a gaslighter, and other things. If people reject Christ, do you think on judgement day they'll be able to get away with "But Tom put up an article about an in house controversy on OE, YEC, and it upset me, so I rejected Jesus, it's Tom's fault". To say anything about Christ these days sets unbelievers in a tizzy, pretty much like Jesus Himself, had to withstand the vitriol of unbelievers, or Paul being stoned for preaching the gospel.


Young earth versus old earth theories has nothing to do with the salvation process in Christ.

Not one thing.

If God through His word or Spirit told me the absolute then I would absolutely believe.

Yet, He has not.

The Bible simply states that there will always be great mysteries out there for man to seek.

So, it is logical that science would have a part to play in all of this as well.

The Bible also states that God is the giver of all things.

It doesn't say in just some things.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:41:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I would say that that is possible yes.

Edit: Give or take fifty million years as the current scientific method suggests.
View Quote
So, when do Adam and Eve and the fall fit into those billions of years?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:44:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Young earth versus old earth theories has nothing to do with the salvation process in Christ.

Not one thing.
View Quote



Word.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:44:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:since

It wasn't a trick question.

An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam (argument against shame), is a form of fallacy when the opinion of a non-expert on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument or when the authority is used to say that the claim is true, as authorities can be wrong.[1] The argument can be considered sound if the authority is an expert and when all sides of a discussion agree on the reliability of the authority in the given context, and if the argument does not rely on the authority to establish truth.
View Quote

The authority is God, the fallacy doesn't apply to Him. Since the vast majority of people, including here, don't actually do "science" are they appealing to the authority of secular scientists unreasonably?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:45:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

And this may be the problem with your particular stance concerning a young earth.

Their information or views may be antiquated as some of them likely are.

A likely evolutionary step in human discovery and understanding to the present day.
View Quote
That wasn't the issue, bad deflection. That's what they believed back then, I agree with them.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:47:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The authority is God, the fallacy doesn't apply to Him. Since the vast majority of people, including here, don't actually do "science" are they appealing to the authority of secular scientists unreasonably?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:since

It wasn't a trick question.

An argument from authority (argumentum ab auctoritate), also called an appeal to authority, or argumentum ad verecundiam (argument against shame), is a form of fallacy when the opinion of a non-expert on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument or when the authority is used to say that the claim is true, as authorities can be wrong.[1] The argument can be considered sound if the authority is an expert and when all sides of a discussion agree on the reliability of the authority in the given context, and if the argument does not rely on the authority to establish truth.

The authority is God, the fallacy doesn't apply to Him. Since the vast majority of people, including here, don't actually do "science" are they appealing to the authority of secular scientists unreasonably?

You know, at this point I don't think we're engaged in coherent conversation.  Have a good one.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:47:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If you mean by "dogma"...doctrine, I don't see any conflict with science rightly understood. It's true the bible isn't a "modern science" book, but when it does speak of the natural world, I don't think it contradicts at all.

Is not naturalism/materialism the "dogma" of the atheist? Seems so to me.
View Quote


By dogma I mean dogma, and by science, I mean science. They are two mutually exclusive approaches to the pursuit of truth. One cannot be dogmatic and scientific about the same thing at the same time, that's why the magisteria never overlap no matter what your perspective is.

No, science is the alternative to dogma. There is no parity between belief in an authority of incontrovertible truth and belief in a theory built on observation and experiment, reason and evidence.

One is always subject to a better theory or better evidence, the other is not.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:48:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, when do Adam and Eve and the fall fit into those billions of years?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

I would say that that is possible yes.

Edit: Give or take fifty million years as the current scientific method suggests.
So, when do Adam and Eve and the fall fit into those billions of years?

Mankind has not been around for that amount of time. Man is a relative newcomer on the order of creativity by God. I would say that mankind is only been around about twenty thousand years or so existent, but no one really knows how long except that he is relatively new. The Bible states that he is relatively new as well.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:49:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I took my Seiko watch off and handed it to my young earth brother in law.  
"You tell God what time it is!" I said "I'm not that bold!"

None of us know what time schedule God uses.  It certainly isn't our puny time clock.  That is man centered hubris.
View Quote
No, it's not hubris, it's actually humbly taking God at His word. He revealed the bible to us that may know something about Him. Believing that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" is faith not pride.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:53:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Young earth versus old earth theories has nothing to do with the salvation process in Christ.

Not one thing.

If God through His word or Spirit told me the absolute then I would absolutely believe.

Yet, He has not.

The Bible simply states that there will always be great mysteries out there for man to seek.

So, it is logical that science would have a part to play in all of this as well.

The Bible also states that God is the giver of all things.

It doesn't say in just some things.
View Quote
I disagree, people in the "church" are trying pretty hard to undermine the idea that Genesis is history. The history of Adam and Eve and the fall, are the foundation on which the way of salvation is built. Death entered through Adam, but OE creationists have a real problem inserting billions of years into the bible narrative. If Genesis isn't literally true, the gospel falls.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:54:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You know, at this point I don't think we're engaged in coherent conversation.  Have a good one.
View Quote
I suppose not, you too.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:55:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:55:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Bible mentions flat earth plenty.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-flat-earth/
Maybe your a flat earther?
View Quote

The quotes there don't really say flat earth.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:56:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


By dogma I mean dogma, and by science, I mean science. They are two mutually exclusive approaches to the pursuit of truth. One cannot be dogmatic and scientific about the same thing at the same time, that's why the magisteria never overlap no matter what your perspective is.

No, science is the alternative to dogma. There is no parity between belief in an authority of incontrovertible truth and belief in a theory built on observation and experiment, reason and evidence.

One is always subject to a better theory or better evidence, the other is not.
View Quote
Ok, I just don't believe that "dogma" and true science contradict each other.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:56:29 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Maybe the Earth is young and flat?  Maybe it's banana shaped?
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/137867/main-qimg-c2652ad8032790119c9c05536f0b56-2993374.JPG
View Quote

If the earth is a babnaner then my entire concept if scale is flawed.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:57:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do you think Satan put dinosaur bones in the ground to deceive us?  Honest question.
View Quote

Of course not.  Evidence of animals that are now extinct, some of which were buried rapidly so that their skeletons were preserved, is in no way at odds with Genesis.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Mankind has not been around for that amount of time. Man is a relative newcomer on the order of creativity by God. I would say that mankind is only been around about twenty thousand years or so existent, but no one really knows how long except that he is relatively new. The Bible states that he is relatively new as well.
View Quote
The bible says he was created on the 6th day.

So, how long were the animals on the earth and dying by the millions.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 9:59:20 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You know what's really weird to me...that people would believe we evolved from some chemicals in a pond. Weird.
View Quote

The primordial ooze theory of chemicals in a pool getting hit by lightning and creating amino acids that form life is strikingly similar to And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:00:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
YEC is mental illness, you can't ignore all the evidence that the world has been around for more than a few thousand years because your flawed interpretation of the Bible says otherwise.

I get faith, and I respect faith, but YEC believers have been convinced by false preachers to accept as faith something as ridiculous as a flat earth.
View Quote
"Metal illness", that just sounds so...secular. Anyway, did you read the article.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:01:50 PM EDT
[#31]
People that believe in the young earth fail to know how long Adam and eve were in the garden before the fall. Nobody knows how long they were there before the fall,  could have been 69 billion years.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:06:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The primordial ooze theory of chemicals in a pool getting hit by lightning and creating amino acids that form life is strikingly similar to And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
View Quote
Yeah, but God made the dust, fashioned it, and breathed life into it. Chemicals naturally rearranging into living things by completely unknown and unknowable natural causes is just a myth, IMHO.

Ever wonder why these mysterious natural causes aren't working today, in a more life hospitable environment, cranking out new life forms left and right. Very interesting to me.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:06:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wasn't sure, that why the question, I was answering your response.

Flat earthism isn't generally accepted in the church at large, it never really was. Some brethren believe it, I disagree with them, and would argue against that. Again, we all have bias, none of is absolutely objective, some might be closer than others. I know of only one being that is absolutely objective.
View Quote

Ah ha! Your dialog here is increasingly resembling that of a modified flatearf/bigfeet stealth-troll. Smug rhetoric and sophistry galor! Enjoy your narcissistic endeavor.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:06:52 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm not sure what the answer is but I do know that if you believe in God as the creator of our universe it's not like it would be a difficult task for him to create an earth with an existing "history".

It's no different than a video game.  In 2011 when Skyrim came out how many years had that world existed for?  By all ingame (or in universe)!observations the answer was thousands of years at least.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:09:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
People that believe in the young earth fail to know how long Adam and eve were in the garden before the fall. Nobody knows how long they were there before the fall,  could have been 69 billion years.
View Quote
So, you're inserting 69 billion years into the narrative? Really? Secularists believe the universe is only 13.8 billion years old. So, did all the animals not die for those 69 billion years also?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:11:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I think young earth creationism is ridiculous.
View Quote


I'm a Christian and I do as well.

Call me "compromised" if you want, but I believe God is the ultimate scientist and science is not there to refute His existence but to be the means by which he reveals himself. I think that to ignore all the evidence that the Earth is billions of years old and instead focus on a literal interpretation of a few words in the Bible is simply foolish and even God would say so.

Some thoughts:

1. God created the Universe/Earth in 7 "days". What is a "day" to an omnipotent, all-powerful, eternal, being? You think it's "24 hours"? I think that's a ridiculous notion. I think that God created the universe in pretty much the timeframe science says that it was created in, and that a "day" to such a being could be millions or billions of our years.

2. The Bible was written to be understood by the people of that time. They didn't really have a concept of "billions of years" at that point. To say that God created the universe in a short amount of time, like 7 days just served to illustrate to those people that He is eternal. He's always been and always will be. The billions of years it takes to create a universe through all the "natural processes" that we have learned about through science would be a brief period for God. Logically, an eternal being would not necessarily care to "snap" something into existence. God created physics and all of the natural processes in the universe to be the means by which he created everything.

3. Some young earthers claim dinosaurs are a hoax because it doesn't jive with their interpretation if the Bible. IMO the fate of the dinosaurs is evidence of God. God created animals before humans. When he decided to create man, he couldn't exactly plop man into a world full of velociraptors and T-rexes. The dinos had to die off to make way for man.

I left the Catholic church because I believe that a lot of what those folks do is "missing the point" and spend too much time and faith energy on stuff that simply doesn't matter. I believe that when Christ said "this is My body/blood" he didn't mean that communion is LITERALLY bread and wine turned into flesh and blood. He meant these are symbols of his sacrifice and we should remember that sacrifice when we eat/drink/participate in communion.  The point is Christ died for us and we should remember that. The point is NOT some mystical transmutation of bread into flesh. All this young earther crap is just flawed interpretation/thinking and more "missing the point".



Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:11:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Our universe was created to run on natural law governed by mathematics, at least it appears that way. The whole quantum uncertainty does certainly give God the ability to direct his creation but that doesn't violate natural law. Every effect had a proceeding cause in our universe back to the original cause...

Now, God us a bit of a perfectionist. If he designs a natural universe then he is going to design it with a built in history back to the first cause.

So, God might have created the universe one hour ago and given us all our memories up to this point. He might have created it 6,000 years ago and given it the history we find in the fossil record.

Or he might have created it something like 14 billion years ago with the big bang.

But if God designed something with a built in history we can hardly blame people for believing that this history was real and not just "virtual."

The argument against this idea is that "God doesn't lie." But the argument is not that God lies, but that he did the logical thing which was to give the natural universe he created a natural history, as is to be expected.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:11:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So, when do Adam and Eve and the fall fit into those billions of years?
View Quote

Does it matter?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:13:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Ah ha! Your dialog here is increasingly resembling that of a modified flatearf/bigfeet stealth-troll. Smug rhetoric and sophistry galor! Enjoy your narcissistic endeavor.
View Quote
Sophistry? No, I was just trying to give him an honest answer. Some Christians I have known, do and have believed in a flat earth. I think they are wrong, but they are still brethren to me. I guess, Harry and I are the trolls these days.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:16:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The authority is God, the fallacy doesn't apply to Him. Since the vast majority of people, including here, don't actually do "science" are they appealing to the authority of secular scientists unreasonably?
View Quote

Lol, your troll-job is falling apart, it`s getting a bit ridiculous at this point.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:17:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It begins in Genesis 5 with the genealogies of man. Also in 1 Chronicles 1.
View Quote


The generations of man is young. The earth, not so much.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


By dogma I mean dogma, and by science, I mean science. They are two mutually exclusive approaches to the pursuit of truth. One cannot be dogmatic and scientific about the same thing at the same time, that's why the magisteria never overlap no matter what your perspective is.

No, science is the alternative to dogma. There is no parity between belief in an authority of incontrovertible truth and belief in a theory built on observation and experiment, reason and evidence.

One is always subject to a better theory or better evidence, the other is not.
View Quote

God gave us science. Science was an attempt to better understand our creator. It's really not that hard to make modern scientific theory mesh with a book that is interpreted differently by everyone who reads it.

We also see more and more archeological finds and scientific discoveries which bring more truth to the word. For a long time we couldn't corroborate simple things like the existence of Pontius Pilate but they found some coins and a tablet or something that did recently. It was also argued that most crucifixions were carried out by tying the victims to a cross but then we found heel bones that still had nails through them...
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:21:27 PM EDT
[#43]
A God that is endless. A planet in  space and time that is endless. Doesn’t really matter how old you think it is, and in the end has no bearing on your salvation.

But party on…
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:22:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Of course not.  Evidence of animals that are now extinct, some of which were buried rapidly so that their skeletons were preserved, is in no way at odds with Genesis.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you think Satan put dinosaur bones in the ground to deceive us?  Honest question.

Of course not.  Evidence of animals that are now extinct, some of which were buried rapidly so that their skeletons were preserved, is in no way at odds with Genesis.

Fossils are not preserved bones.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:28:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm a Christian and I do as well.

Call me "compromised" if you want, but I believe God is the ultimate scientist and science is not there to refute His existence but to be the means by which he reveals himself. I think that to ignore all the evidence that the Earth is billions of years old and instead focus on a literal interpretation of a few words in the Bible is simply foolish and even God would say so.

Some thoughts:

1. God created the Universe/Earth in 7 "days". What is a "day" to an omnipotent, all-powerful, eternal, being? You think it's "24 hours"? I think that's a ridiculous notion. I think that God created the universe in pretty much the timeframe science says that it was created in, and that a "day" to such a being could be millions or billions of our years.

2. The Bible was written to be understood by the people of that time. They didn't really have a concept of "billions of years" at that point. To say that God created the universe in a short amount of time, like 7 days just served to illustrate to those people that He is eternal. He's always been and always will be. The billions of years it takes to create a universe through all the "natural processes" that we have learned about through science would be a brief period for God. Logically, an eternal being would not necessarily care to "snap" something into existence. God created physics and all of the natural processes in the universe to be the means by which he created everything.

3. Some young earthers claim dinosaurs are a hoax because it doesn't jive with their interpretation if the Bible. IMO the fate of the dinosaurs is evidence of God. God created animals before humans. When he decided to create man, he couldn't exactly plop man into a world full of velociraptors and T-rexes. The dinos had to die off to make way for man.

I left the Catholic church because I believe that a lot of what those folks do is "missing the point" and spend too much time and faith energy on stuff that simply doesn't matter. I believe that when Christ said "this is My body/blood" he didn't mean that communion is LITERALLY bread and wine turned into flesh and blood. He meant these are symbols of his sacrifice and we should remember that sacrifice when we eat/drink/participate in communion.  The point is Christ died for us and we should remember that. The point is NOT some mystical transmutation of bread into flesh. All this young earther crap is just flawed interpretation/thinking and more "missing the point".



View Quote
1. "Yom" with an ordinal number with the words "evening and morning" means a literal 24 hour day. That's the way Christians have understood it for centuries upon centuries.

2. That is speculative at best, untrue at worst. You don't know what they really understood about these abstract concepts. But when the 4th commandment was given at Sinai, it says that God created in 6 days and rested the 7th. Do you really believe they would have been asking themselves, was it really 6 days or maybe it was really just long periods of time or whatever? As for secular science learning things about origins, well, I don't think they have learned all that much.

3. Red herring, what some Christians might or might not say isn't really relevant to the article...did you read it?

I'm glad you left Catholicism, but whether the elements are literally the body and blood of Christ, doesn't have mush to do with whether Genesis is literal history.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:29:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Mankind has not been around for that amount of time. Man is a relative newcomer on the order of creativity by God. I would say that mankind is only been around about twenty thousand years or so existent, but no one really knows how long except that he is relatively new. The Bible states that he is relatively new as well.
View Quote

We have hominid bones outside.of africa dated to ~1.5 to 2 million years old with  Sahelanthropus is thought to be 7 million years old, modern humas are believed to be 150,000 years old and archaic homo sapiens 300,000 plus. We have sites like Gobekli tepe which shows advanced society and architecture almost 12000 years ago.

Who the heck knows what vast swaths of civilization got covered up when the oceans rose 400ft at the end of the ice age, most civilization thrives near the coast.

There is a whole lot out there which points to old earth.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:30:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I disagree, people in the "church" are trying pretty hard to undermine the idea that Genesis is history. The history of Adam and Eve and the fall, are the foundation on which the way of salvation is built. Death entered through Adam, but OE creationists have a real problem inserting billions of years into the bible narrative. If Genesis isn't literally true, the gospel falls.
View Quote

Is your faith so weak that it rests on such a narrow interpretation of the word and a total rejection of what God has revealed to man about history.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:32:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The bible says he was created on the 6th day.

So, how long were the animals on the earth and dying by the millions.
View Quote

What is a day to a being that created the sun and the moon and the earth?
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:33:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
...infallibility of the scriptures is an article of faith in my church.
View Quote


Found the root of the problem.
Link Posted: 10/15/2023 10:34:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Yeah, but God made the dust, fashioned it, and breathed life into it. Chemicals naturally rearranging into living things by completely unknown and unknowable natural causes is just a myth, IMHO.

Ever wonder why these mysterious natural causes aren't working today, in a more life hospitable environment, cranking out new life forms left and right. Very interesting to me.
View Quote

It's a big universe, God may well have set the pieces in motion all throughout it and is cranking out new life forms left and right constantly.
Page / 12
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top