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Quoted: You're being too harsh. The rest of the books were good...the story was a grand story. The Galt book, I'll admit I almost stopped reading on that one. There are things I didn't like about the series but it's probably still a must read for any Sci-Fantasy fan. As long as we are recommending books... Weber wrote a series "The War God's Own". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Terry Goodkind - as some have here have said he does have a somewhat repetitive plot in his books, but it is definitely worth reading the first one in the series. I also have a fondness for Faith of the Fallen as it does a very good job of laying out how communism is bad and capitalism/individual exceptionalism is good. ok ill give you this. wizards first rule was good, pretend the series ends there. You're being too harsh. The rest of the books were good...the story was a grand story. The Galt book, I'll admit I almost stopped reading on that one. There are things I didn't like about the series but it's probably still a must read for any Sci-Fantasy fan. As long as we are recommending books... Weber wrote a series "The War God's Own". The War God's Own was a pretty good series. Hradani kick ass. |
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Robert Jordan ran into the same problem that George R. R. Martin ran into with his series deconstructing The Wheel of Time: too many characters and factions to have good stopping points or a satisfying resolution of the parallel plots. I get the idea that the reason Martin kills off so many characters is probably just to avoid having to figure out what the hell they're ultimately going to do. Robert Jordan just quit writing about his extra characters, probably hoping the audience would forget about them. They're both really good writers, but the genre is very hard to write. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wheel of time by Robert Jordan. I read several of the books from that series. The first few were very interesting, then it gradually seemed like the author was trying to drag the story out more and more. Then I heard that the series was originally supposed to have already ended, but the publisher talked the author into stretching things out, so that they would have more books to sell. I got tired of reading thick books with little progression in the story, and gave up on the series. ETA: Just thought of a book that would probably be interesting for arfcommers, but I'm drawing a complete blank on the title and author. I read it some years ago, and don't remember all the details, but the story starts off with a group of mythical creatures trying to steal part of a dragon's treasure. They succeed in getting away with a small part of the treasure, but the loot comes with a curse that turns them into Marines. Anybody know the title? (As bad as my memory is with titles, it wouldn't surprise me if somebody has already mentioned it.) My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. |
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Harry Turtledove's Videssos books, starting with THE MISPLACED LEGION. I think these are his best work; he's stealing directly from the period he's most familiar with, the Byzantine Empire.
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CS Friedman's
Coldfire Trilogy and Magister trilogy Her writing bends evil and good into grey areas. |
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Quoted: My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. IIRC, jordan did 2 years of developmental writing, broadly outlining the story to its conclusion and writing the text of the last battle before drafting the first book in the series. granted, characters multiplied and story languished in the middle of the project (book 5 was the last tightly-written volume for a while), but he certainly had a plan. i'm of two minds regarding the necessity of thorough plotting. i prefer to have a very clear idea of where things are headed, but sometimes characters dictate the plot, and not the other way around. in screenwriting language, there's a fundamental difference between plot-driven and character-driven pieces. read a really interesting essay a while back by (IIRC) steven king or harlan ellison. the essence of the piece was that sometimes you have to let your characters emerge, and too-rigorous plotting can stunt the development of a character. OTOH, the TV show 'lost' is a perfect example of how the failure to plot can really undermine a project. |
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Quoted: CS Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy and Magister trilogy Her writing bends evil and good into grey areas. View Quote while not quite the same thing, jacqueline carey's 'the sundering' does a very good job of this, and also really delves into divided loyalties. the blurb is that it is LoTR, told from sauron's perspective. highly recommended, but may be a bit flowery and feminine for readers who prefer a gritty style of fantasy.
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Quoted: For a good tongue in cheek poke at most fantasy fiction, try Terry Pratchet's "The Color of Magic". View Quote I've been following Pratchett for decades. The early and mid Discworld books are fantastic. Funny, weird characters, whimsical wordplay, great stuff. IMHO he eventually lost his way and the later books are very hit-and-miss. He has written a number of stories in which he tries to get a Serious Message across... racism is bad, war is bad, etc, and he doesn't pull it off very well. He also became obsessed with the Sam Vimes character, and the series is now basically Vimesworld But The Color of Magic is fantastic, as are the several that follow. |
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View Quote Dammit! Another one I've forgotten! Tad Williams is very, very good. Dragonbone Chair series was great...but he nailed it (for me) with his Otherland series. It's a bit more cyberpunk than swords-and-sorcery...but fantasy, still...and damned fine reading. I enjoyed it more than the Dragonbone stuff. |
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Jim Butcher's Dresden files series and the Codex Alera series.
Robin Hobb's Farseer Assasin is a great series as well. |
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Raymond E Feist's Riftwar cycle... Robin Hobb's Farseer Triology David Eddings' Elenium and Tamuli, as well as the Belgariad and Mallorean series And I'll third? I think the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. View Quote David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. |
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Which is a damned shame - they were fantastic when they were fantasy and got progressively more horriblererer when they jumped to sci-fi. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Pern series by Anne McCaffrey Which is a damned shame - they were fantastic when they were fantasy and got progressively more horriblererer when they jumped to sci-fi. I was the opposite..."Ho hum, more Dragonrider fantasy...Yay...OH! What's this? A buried spacecraft in my sword story?...Nice!!!" |
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Quoted: David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and one can make a scrier out of it, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. View Quote The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. |
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Click To View Spoiler Not only does Thomas Covenant rape a girl within the first ten chapters, he's just a miserable fucking creature. That's not really something most women want in a novel. View Quote Click To View Spoiler Absolutely necessary for the plot. Covenant didn't believe in that reality at that point--he thought he was dreaming. Lepers (Outcast! Unclean!) can't feel, have no nerve response...can't get erections...and yet, holy shit! Boner! Can you say that you haven't done worse in your dreams?
And after the act was over, and he realized the truth of his mistake...It could be said that the rest of his life was spent atoning for that single act. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emberverse_series I loved "Dies the Fire"... Then sequels just kept coming out and it seems like it started to do the whole Shannara thing... same story, different generation... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I recently read all the ember verse series. It is a "post apocalyptic" world where things like gunpowder and electricity stop working. It plunges the world into a medieval world I loved "Dies the Fire"... Then sequels just kept coming out and it seems like it started to do the whole Shannara thing... same story, different generation... I had the exact same reaction. |
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If you do end up looking into the Gor books by John Norman... as a head's up his books have spawned a whole sub-culture (not sure what else to call it) within BDSM based on his take on slavery and gender roles. View Quote I read a lot of the Gor stuff as a kid. On a whim (and after learning how to do so in a library science in school) I looked up John Norman and his works. Even in the early 80's, he'd already written treatises (not fiction) on the unappreciated benefits of bondage and slavery. Kinda killed it for me when I realized he was sort of a fucking freak. Him and Piers Anthony both creep me out, now. |
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My wife, MZR, has always argued that getting lost in a story, or a series, is due to not plotting the tale to the end. She plots all(25)novels, and makes me help. Sometimes I contribute an idea that is useful. View Quote I'm jealous, thinking of the lively conversations and debates you must have about characters that--to you--are ultimately real. That's very, very cool. |
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LOL me too, the Myth series shaped my sense of humor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Robert Asprin Myth series, as well as Magic Kingdom series Also, "Thieves World" is an anthology he created with a bunch of other fantasy writers, so would be a good into into writers and styles. Robert Heinlein "Glory" Asprin is who i grew up reading Pervert! |
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The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. View Quote I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html |
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I have been reading the Game of Thrones series for the last bit. I am about half way through. I think it is a wonderful book.
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Quoted: I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. I was working in a bookstore when the first Belgariad series was popular, two, three hundred years ago. It wasn't 12-year-olds who were buying it. It was THE hot fantasy series at the time. Fantasy and science fiction are just sort of stunted in dealing with certain themes. I think it goes back to the genres' roots in the '40s and '50s. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~imcfadyen/fantasy.html |
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The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and one can make a scrier out of it, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. The Belgariad is probably my favorite series of all time. The flaws you mention are, IMHO, just reflective of the fact that the series is written for a younger audience. I read the series when i was in the sixth grade, and I absolutely wanted to be Belgarion. As for the stammering around girls, well, in the sixth grade I could relate. the elenium and the tamuli were much better imo. |
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RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. View Quote Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. Weis & Hickman are good reads also, they are most known for their DragonLance series. Kind of in the same vein as the Forgotten Realms series that Salvatore does. Start with the Chronicles trilogy first. (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Dragons of Winter Night, Dragons of Spring Dawning) If you like those there are countless other books that are written in the DragonLance world by several different authors. ETA: The Deathgate Cycle is another good series by Weis & Hickman, more of a sci-fi/fantasy hybrid, but a good read. |
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Click To View Spoiler Not only does Thomas Covenant rape a girl within the first ten chapters, he's just a miserable fucking creature. That's not really something most women want in a novel. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson. +1. Just don't ask your wife to read it. 20+ years later, I still get shit about it. Why??? I read, and enjoyed, those years ago. I read quite a bit of Piers Anthony too. Incarnations of Immortality I believe. Click To View Spoiler Not only does Thomas Covenant rape a girl within the first ten chapters, he's just a miserable fucking creature. That's not really something most women want in a novel. Oddly, I can separate reality from fiction. Yes, he was a miserable guy. Look at some of the romance and erotica novels some women read. Talk about trash... |
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Robert Asprin Myth series, as well as Magic Kingdom series Also, "Thieves World" is an anthology he created with a bunch of other fantasy writers, so would be a good into into writers and styles. Robert Heinlein "Glory" Asprin is who i grew up reading Pervert! It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, |
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Don't forget the prequels and sequels to the Paksenarrion story. Right now there's two prequels and 4 published sequels and a fifth on the way. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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SERRAted Edge urban fantasy series moon's Deed of Paksenarrion darkover series by Marion Zimmer Bradley Don't forget the prequels and sequels to the Paksenarrion story. Right now there's two prequels and 4 published sequels and a fifth on the way. I haven't read them yet so I can't say whether they're good or not. another series i like is Simon R Green Hawk and Fisher Forest Kingdom Nightside |
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Quoted: Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. |
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Although its not really fantasy but fiction. Bernard Cornwell's Saxon chronicles are very good. |
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I never tire of recommending Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. It's technically science fiction, but only nominally.
Joe Abercrombie's trilogy was good - very cinematic. It's the Belgariad (a guilty pleasure, that) written in GrimDark style with a shaggy dog ending. I haven't read any of his stand-alones. |
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The 4 books of the Neverwinter series are damn good reads. I do agree with the Hunter's Blades Trilogy (Thousand Orcs) though. It didn't draw me in like the previous books did. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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RA Salvatore. Read everything with Drizzit in it starting with Homeland. Good choice. The Salvatore books are great reads, although once you get up to the Thousand Orcs book it starts to get kind of same 'ol, same 'ol. I stopped reading him after that one, but I just picked up a new one that looks pretty interesting so I'm hoping it will be more like the older books. Greenwood's Waterdeep books are probably my favorite. |
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It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Pervert! It's pervect. I always like the quotes at the beginning of each chapter, I remember Bob saying once that coming up with those quotes sometimes took longer than writing the whole rest of the book. |
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For old school, try Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword.
Have there been any Robert E. Howard mentions yet? He could really pack a lot in one paragraph. |
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For you folks that want a more adult-oriented fantasy series, you ought to check out The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. The protagonist Cugel is totally amoral, for one thing...steals, rapes, and kills without remorse or regret. This series is where the magic system in Dungeons and Dragons originated, with some spells being direct steals. Bring your thesaurus, Vance is a master of the English language. |
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For you folks that want a more adult-oriented fantasy series, you ought to check out The Dying Earth series by Jack Vance. The protagonist Cugel is totally amoral, for one thing...steals, rapes, and kills without remorse or regret. This series is where the magic system in Dungeons and Dragons originated, with some spells being direct steals. Bring your thesaurus, Vance is a master of the English language. View Quote True fact. |
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Fantasy and Science Fiction is probably all I voluntarily read up until 8th grade. At that time I was also into AD&D, and remember reading several books that tied in with that genre. Beyond that the only time I read any fantasy was a few years back, I found my old collection of books by Michael Moorcock, his eternal champion series of books. Elric of Melnibone, Hawkmoon, and several others.
They're a short read, but quit frankly weren't as well written as I remember. However, the concept and universe was kind of cool. I'm not sure I can fully recommend them to the average adult reader, but again it's not a huge investment of time, the individual books were very short. |
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Fantasy and Science Fiction is probably all I voluntarily read up until 8th grade. At that time I was also into AD&D, and remember reading several books that tied in with that genre. Beyond that the only time I read any fantasy was a few years back, I found my old collection of books by Michael Moorcock, his eternal champion series of books. Elric of Melnibone, Hawkmoon, and several others. They're a short read, but quit frankly weren't as well written as I remember. However, the concept and universe was kind of cool. I'm not sure I can fully recommend them to the average adult reader, but again it's not a huge investment of time, the individual books were very short. View Quote Another good one. |
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Here's a fairly obscure suggestion - the Shadow War trilogy by Chris Claremont (Shadow Moon, Shadow Dawn, Shadow Star).
They are set in the "Willow" universe and take place 10-15 years after the movie. Despite the somewhat campy original source move, the books really are well written and significantly darker and more mature in theme and scope. |
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David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Raymond E Feist's Riftwar cycle... Robin Hobb's Farseer Triology David Eddings' Elenium and Tamuli, as well as the Belgariad and Mallorean series And I'll third? I think the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. David Eddings is a perfect, shining example of everything I hate about modern fantasy...and it's repeated over and over in the genre. (and of course, I read the Mallorean and the Belgarariad, and a couple of the precursor books...because at the time, I read everything I could get). A child king/wizard/savior, who by the end of the series has enough power to shake the pillars of Heaven...but blushes and stammers if someone says "titty". Fantasy is a weird genre...Terry Goodkind will go into loving detail about how to pickle a live boy--leaving the head exposed--until the body rots away and the still-living head can be made into a scrier, or describe how to accustom an orphaned child victim to eating from a funnel so it's easier to pour molten lead down his throat later...but any normal adult activity is obscene. It's like...torture and graphic violence is considered necessary for the genre...but God forbid we actually put anything adult in there...because that's gross and stuff. Ewwww, girls! It's a fucking joke. After a while, they all seem...childish. Rand al'Thor: What, 12 books? Most powerful human alive? Stammering idiot when around a girl...really? Every once in a while, I find an author who treats adults as adults, and themes in the book reflect situations mature people would face (Melanie Rawn--thank you for making me like fantasy again!)...but for the most part? The genre is stuck in adolescent, dewy-eyed, innocent, ridiculous hypocrisy. that's another thing I like about Martin...very little "magic," but lots of whores |
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