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Back in the day people used to buy houses to have forever, not as some money making machine as the banks turned them into.
My grandmother, the last one I have left has lived in her house, raised my mother, me, and her grandchildren in from my uncle all in the same house. To this day I look at that house as a home. Can you do the same? Will your children and grandchildren do it? I can tell you this, when I finally do buy a house, it will be my home. It will not be some dream of wealth to come, but a place my children and grandchildren can call home. Maybe it's because I could care less if my neighbor paints his house purple. |
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The statist is strong in this thread This thread reads more like singular. Not that I ever wanted to live in CT before but man... |
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HOAs are nothing more than communism on a neighborhood scale. Little Stalins looking to excert power over thier neighbors. ^^^this, for the win!!^^^^ we have one in our hood, but it's been inactive; now some jerkoff is trying to reinstate it & make himself the prez.; most of the neighbors are ok, don't have to ask em not to do hillbilly stuff, but this putz is probably still pissed about a past event which he sat on his ass, didn't help the rest of the neighbors who worked on the situation, and now wants to be tell the rest of us how to live to his values. a real PITA; about 1/3 of the folks in the hood are retired, but my wife's good friends with most of em. ,,,,, |
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Home owners assocation says the play house is fine, but its too pink really? Seriously? WTF have people come to a point that they just dont have anything better to do? UMuhrica - Fuck yeah! Ban teh 4 year old from having pink toys........Freedom is over-rated anyway right. |
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HOAs are nothing more than communism on a neighborhood scale. Little Stalins looking to excert power over thier neighbors. Nope. Sorry, but when you have 300 to 1000 homes in a subdivision and no HOA, it would not take long for people to do shit things to their homes and suddenly, the place looks like a clusterfuck. People like me buy homes in HOA subdivisions, because they look good, homogeneous and will stay that way for years to come. It does help insure that no matter what happens to property values, everyone around you is in the same boat. And not causing an even further drop in values, because they put up a shitty purple chipboard addition to the back of their home that you can barely see over the 4 foot weeds in the yard. See. People need this type of regulation Why? I want my property values to go down. Lower property values = lower taxes. It's my primary residence, and I don't plan on ever selling. Admittedly there isn't nearly the threat of ghetto goblins moving into my neighborhood, because I live in a college town so there is a demand for low rent housing from someone other than the scum of the earth. It mystifies me why people will readily buy a new car that loses half its value in five years, but panic if their house loses 10% of its value. Especially in Oklahoma where you might have a $20,000 car and a $50,000 house. Also given that you know that if you hold the house long enough, the value will eventually go back up to where it was, whereas the car will go nowhere but down. And it never ceases to amaze me how many people cry out about liberty, but are willing to give up a great deal of theirs for a little bit of financial security. Cue the Ben Franklin quote. A man's home is his castle, and how good of a castle is it if your neighbors can take it from you because they don't like what color you painted the windows? Lower taxes = lower quality of neighbors. Perhaps not a concern in Oklahoma, but here in the Metro Detroit area, cheap most definitely doesn't mean 'good'. Thats right Tomislav! Taxes are the modern barrier of keeping the riffraff out Just like Gentrification. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Western_Reserve Honestly, I'd like to go take over our western reserve and place them back under colonial rule so they can be free of HOA's and CC&R's, instead living under the far more enforcable residential zoning codes of Connecticut It's for the children. I've been to Ohio. There is nothing there for the children. Uuumm....YES!!! http://www.virginiaplaces.org/graphics/image016.jpg Mother of States
Virginia has been called the "Mother of States" because she was the first of the states to be settled and because of the number of states that were "born" of the Virginia territory. West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and, even a part of Minnesota were all a part of the original Virginia territory. Lets face it Dan, you don't come around here for the hunting! We had a charter from the King of England for Ohio. Your claimant is wishful thinking Sir! And DanTSX doesn't hunt. He shops at Whole Foods |
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It's against the CC&R's. Those are my property values too bubb! You shouldn't had signed the contract when you moved in! I bet they have other zoning issues that they will pay dearly for Yep, a well maintained and built playhouse in the backyard of a development is horrible. It doesn't signify the area as a nice friendly place to raise your kids at all. But a lawsuit over a kids playhouse, now THAT will make the values go up considering what families want. ETA: Are you the new expcustom? I think it shows the strength and determination of the HOA board. I don't want some lazy interlopers writing off bullshit expenses because they sit on the HOA board, I'd want them to actually do something that is visible and productive. Seriously Dan, I normally have tonnes of time for you and enjoy your posts, but this is way way over the top and goes far beyond the remit of common sense an property values. HOA needs a reality check. Try selling your home in a HOA that dictates in this manner against a 4 year old's dolls house and you could to lose out because the HOA's reputation will precede it. |
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Currently I have aluminum foil curtains at my roof windows. Is this HOA approved
Balkanian anarchy FTW. |
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And don't post a thread complaining when your HOA from the PRC (Peoples Republic of Connecticut) decides that your guns are unsafe and for your own protection you can't have them in your home. And learn to snip the comment trees. They don't need HOAs for that. That's what their 2 week waiting period and assault weapons ban are for. Of course that's not to say we should be dissuaded from joining Dan in singing his statist praises. Consider aspirations of having your shit packed as tightly as those forward-thinking coastal folks. Thats right FortyFive. We don't need them Waiting period? Thats for people without pistol permits. I can walk in and buy anything right now. Assault Weapons Bans are for people too poor and too stupid to figure out how to get around them with pre-bans. Packed in? Ok, the smallest lot in my neighborhood is 1 acre. The largest is 400. |
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And that is why I will never ever ever have a house with a HOA attached to it.
My property, MY rules. |
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And don't post a thread complaining when your HOA from the PRC (Peoples Republic of Connecticut) decides that your guns are unsafe and for your own protection you can't have them in your home. And learn to snip the comment trees. They don't need HOAs for that. That's what their 2 week waiting period and assault weapons ban are for. Of course that's not to say we should be dissuaded from joining Dan in singing his statist praises. Consider aspirations of having your shit packed as tightly as those forward-thinking coastal folks. Thats right FortyFive. We don't need them Waiting period? Thats for people without pistol permits. I can walk in and buy anything right now. Assault Weapons Bans are for people too poor and too stupid to figure out how to get around them with pre-bans. Packed in? Ok, the smallest lot in my neighborhood is 1 acre. The largest is 400. Dan, the issue isn't that you CAN OR CAN'T get them if you have the money or determination. The issue is that the law is wrong in the first fucking place. |
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I'm just trying to make the point that HOAs are useless, undesireable, and not viable in a market that has robust and enforceable residential zoning laws. In my state, we only have HOA's in a very few instances....those being 55+ retirement communities and coastal gated private beach communities. States that espouse "freedom" in just about any action and institution over states like mine are the ones that tend to have substantial numbers of HOA's in them. These states also have the most lax residential zoning laws, no zoning laws, and no enforcement. Texas, Arizona, North Carolina, South Carolina, Colorado, etc, etc, are absolutely FULL of these stupid HOA's. Zoning and enforcement? What is that? Most of this has to do with the fact that these states have a lot of what is called unincorporated land where houses go up. That means they are not really part of the "town". Where in CT, there is not unincorporated land. Every inch of land in CT is part of a town, and is owned privately or by the state. Meaning that no developments go up in an area free of existing zoning regs. Home prices, demand, taxes, etc, etc all remain high and desireable in most areas of the state. In my mind, it's either s dopey bureaucrat or a nosy busybody that is elected by sham neighborhood elections on the sam scale of a high school class president election. I'll take the dopey slow bureaucrat any day. Hope this clarifies my point. |
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Dan I could tolerate your trolling of this thread a little more, if you would cut down the quote trees.
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I really wish people would stop using "communism/ist" as a synonym for "bad." It's a convenient identifier of stupid people |
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Back in the day people used to buy houses to have forever, not as some money making machine as the banks turned them into. My grandmother, the last one I have left has lived in her house, raised my mother, me, and her grandchildren in from my uncle all in the same house. To this day I look at that house as a home. Can you do the same? Will your children and grandchildren do it? I can tell you this, when I finally do buy a house, it will be my home. It will not be some dream of wealth to come, but a place my children and grandchildren can call home. Maybe it's because I could care less if my neighbor paints his house purple. Most people these days are a little more mobile than your family seems to be |
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Dan I could tolerate your trolling of this thread a little more, if you would cut down the quote trees. ja baas I fix |
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And don't post a thread complaining when your HOA from the PRC (Peoples Republic of Connecticut) decides that your guns are unsafe and for your own protection you can't have them in your home. And learn to snip the comment trees. They don't need HOAs for that. That's what their 2 week waiting period and assault weapons ban are for. Of course that's not to say we should be dissuaded from joining Dan in singing his statist praises. Consider aspirations of having your shit packed as tightly as those forward-thinking coastal folks. Thats right FortyFive. We don't need them Waiting period? Thats for people without pistol permits. I can walk in and buy anything right now. Assault Weapons Bans are for people too poor and too stupid to figure out how to get around them with pre-bans. Packed in? Ok, the smallest lot in my neighborhood is 1 acre. The largest is 400. Wow, quite the elitest attitude there. So poor people shouldn't have ARs? |
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[span style='font-weight: bold;']Originally Posted By
Thats right FortyFive. We don't need them Waiting period? Thats for people without pistol permits. I can walk in and buy anything right now. Assault Weapons Bans are for people too poor and too stupid to figure out how to get around them with pre-bans. Packed in? Ok, the smallest lot in my neighborhood is 1 acre. The largest is 400. Wow, quite the elitest attitude there. So poor people shouldn't have ARs? No. I'm saying that the AWB is ineffectual. Gun control historically is based on economic discrimination. I never said it was right. I'm saying it is full of holes. I'm not proud of the AWB here. I've spoken with state legislators at length of eliminating it but it is a low priority for them. I do however take pride in CT's outstanding carry laws though. |
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There's either a lot of sarcasm, or a whole lot of WTF going on in this thread:
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And don't post a thread complaining when your HOA from the PRC (Peoples Republic of Connecticut) decides that your guns are unsafe and for your own protection you can't have them in your home. And learn to snip the comment trees. They don't need HOAs for that. That's what their 2 week waiting period and assault weapons ban are for. Of course that's not to say we should be dissuaded from joining Dan in singing his statist praises. Consider aspirations of having your shit packed as tightly as those forward-thinking coastal folks. Thats right FortyFive. We don't need them Waiting period? Thats for people without pistol permits. I can walk in and buy anything right now. Assault Weapons Bans are for people too poor and too stupid to figure out how to get around them with pre-bans. Packed in? Ok, the smallest lot in my neighborhood is 1 acre. The largest is 400. Newsflash... there are only SO MANY pre-bans. And am I to understand that "rights" only are for those that can afford them easily? Jesus tap-dancing Christ. I hope to God that this is sarcasm. |
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Newsflash... there are only SO MANY pre-bans. And am I to understand that "rights" only are for those that can afford them easily? Jesus tap-dancing Christ. I hope to God that this is sarcasm. Since the sunset if the Fed ban, they are not that hard to come by. |
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It's against the CC&R's. Those are my property values too bubb! You shouldn't had signed the contract when you moved in! I bet they have other zoning issues that they will pay dearly for It doesn't look as though it was explicitly against the HOA covenant. It seems the HOA is trying to argue that she needed approval to build/paint this "structure," which probably doesn't fall under the definition of a structure (such as a garage or carport) according to the family of the girl. It's a freaking little playhouse, who seriously gives a shit except for busybody liberals? This is fucking stupid. busybody Conservatives exist too. I've seen it. just say'in. |
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If you don't like HOA rules, do not live in an HOA subdivision. This. No one forced you to live there. |
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If you don't like HOA rules, do not live in an HOA subdivision. I would not consider it. Anyone who does is a fool. Amen If I have to live in a subdivision I want an HOA. To many people let stuff get run down and do not know how to clean up or even mow the grass. |
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Quoted: I lost 90K in "value" on my house and we bought AFTER prices started plummeting. about 33%.... I don't need to lose any more equity, because someone wants to "personalize" their house, THANK YOU. That is a bit more that "a little bit of financial security". For comparison sake, we sold out old house that was 1400 square feel for 160K and bought the current house that has 2900 square feet. NOW, I could probably sell this place for about 20-30K more than the old house sold for. In all, the old house was too small, was in need of lots of repairs, like eventual siding replacement, etc. and the neighborhood was getting crummy. (no HOA rules to speak of). While it sucks to have lost 90k on my home, the old neighborhood looks like SHIT. Unmowed lawns, junk cars in driveways, ugly a fuck paint jobs, etc. That 160K house is now worth about 100K. (or less) And good luck on trying to sell to anyone who wants to live in a nice looking neighborhood. If I put an outbuilding on my current lot, it would need to be painted to match my house. Oh the horror, my liberty has been stripped away... If it was for my daughter, I could still paint the inside any color I pleased and that would be that. If you want to be able to do as you please with your property, DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN A SUBDIVISION. Easy. If you do by a house in a subdivision and whine, bitch and complain that you have to follow the rules you SIGNED when you bought the place..... well, it is your fault. Your new neighborhood is nice because it has 2900 sqft houses on it. Our neighborhood has no HOA houses are 2200+ sqft 200k+ in SC so people take care of their own because they want to. HOAs are nothing but a pile of crap perpetuated by the same nonsense argument. |
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If you're going to buy a house in a bargain-priced subdivision, I can guarantee you that you'll want a HOA
Buy in a higher-end subdivision, and you're less likely to be surrounded by dirtbags that need to be told to take care of their shit. My brother's bargain neighborhood in FL looked like Chechnya after 5 years, even with an HOA |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you don't like HOA rules, do not live in an HOA subdivision. I would not consider it. Anyone who does is a fool. Amen If I have to live in a subdivision I want an HOA. To many people let stuff get run down and do not know how to clean up or even mow the grass. Given some of our historic discourse, I am a *tad* surprised by Mr.Harry's stance on this, 'nuff respect. |
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I lost 90K in "value" on my house and we bought AFTER prices started plummeting. about 33%.... I don't need to lose any more equity, because someone wants to "personalize" their house, THANK YOU. That is a bit more that "a little bit of financial security". For comparison sake, we sold out old house that was 1400 square feel for 160K and bought the current house that has 2900 square feet. NOW, I could probably sell this place for about 20-30K more than the old house sold for. In all, the old house was too small, was in need of lots of repairs, like eventual siding replacement, etc. and the neighborhood was getting crummy. (no HOA rules to speak of). While it sucks to have lost 90k on my home, the old neighborhood looks like SHIT. Unmowed lawns, junk cars in driveways, ugly a fuck paint jobs, etc. That 160K house is now worth about 100K. (or less) And good luck on trying to sell to anyone who wants to live in a nice looking neighborhood. If I put an outbuilding on my current lot, it would need to be painted to match my house. Oh the horror, my liberty has been stripped away... If it was for my daughter, I could still paint the inside any color I pleased and that would be that. If you want to be able to do as you please with your property, DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN A SUBDIVISION. Easy. If you do by a house in a subdivision and whine, bitch and complain that you have to follow the rules you SIGNED when you bought the place..... well, it is your fault. Your new neighborhood is nice because it has 2900 sqft houses on it. Our neighborhood has no HOA houses are 2200+ sqft 200k+ in SC so people take care of their own because they want to. HOAs are nothing but a pile of crap perpetuated by the same nonsense argument. HOAs keep the riffraff out |
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I lost 90K in "value" on my house and we bought AFTER prices started plummeting. about 33%.... I don't need to lose any more equity, because someone wants to "personalize" their house, THANK YOU. That is a bit more that "a little bit of financial security". For comparison sake, we sold out old house that was 1400 square feel for 160K and bought the current house that has 2900 square feet. NOW, I could probably sell this place for about 20-30K more than the old house sold for. In all, the old house was too small, was in need of lots of repairs, like eventual siding replacement, etc. and the neighborhood was getting crummy. (no HOA rules to speak of). While it sucks to have lost 90k on my home, the old neighborhood looks like SHIT. Unmowed lawns, junk cars in driveways, ugly a fuck paint jobs, etc. That 160K house is now worth about 100K. (or less) And good luck on trying to sell to anyone who wants to live in a nice looking neighborhood. If I put an outbuilding on my current lot, it would need to be painted to match my house. Oh the horror, my liberty has been stripped away... If it was for my daughter, I could still paint the inside any color I pleased and that would be that. If you want to be able to do as you please with your property, DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN A SUBDIVISION. Easy. If you do by a house in a subdivision and whine, bitch and complain that you have to follow the rules you SIGNED when you bought the place..... well, it is your fault. Your new neighborhood is nice because it has 2900 sqft houses on it. Our neighborhood has no HOA houses are 2200+ sqft 200k+ in SC so people take care of their own because they want to. HOAs are nothing but a pile of crap perpetuated by the same nonsense argument. HOAs keep the riffraff out Yeah, you've said that before. You still haven't explained how suing a family over a pink playhouse keeps out the riffraff. Please enlighten us. But it also seems that HOAs give power to angry people with lives that have gone nowhere, and who end up on power trips for the first time in their lives, the ability to make arbitrary rules just to flex that power. Some guy is stuck working in a cubicle all his adult life decides to take his frustration out on the guy down the street by fining him for parking in the driveway, not the garage. If someone has so much invested in their home and yard that all their self worth is tied into making sure nothing pink is in the yards and all the houses look cookie cutter, I'm living somewhere else. |
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It's against the CC&R's. Those are my property values too bubb! You shouldn't had signed the contract when you moved in! I bet they have other zoning issues that they will pay dearly for It doesn't look as though it was explicitly against the HOA covenant. It seems the HOA is trying to argue that she needed approval to build/paint this "structure," which probably doesn't fall under the definition of a structure (such as a garage or carport) according to the family of the girl. It's a freaking little playhouse, who seriously gives a shit except for busybody liberals? This is fucking stupid. Great. Just what we need. A bunch of thumpers with guns building little pink shantytowns in their backyards. Property values are a community right, and it is our fiduciary duty to ensure that none of those rights or values are decreased. Also, mow your lawn That phrase makes me feel pissed off. It takes a village Filling in for a certain someone today? Listen up Ohio. Some places need extra rules and extra sets of eyes so yokels don't turn the neighborhood into El Camino Alley. Somehow, these HOA's only seem to turn up in so-called "Free States". The only ones we have in CT are 55+ communities. We coastal folk don't seem to have these issues. However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code Sounds like Big City Thinking to me! |
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I lost 90K in "value" on my house and we bought AFTER prices started plummeting. about 33%.... I don't need to lose any more equity, because someone wants to "personalize" their house, THANK YOU. That is a bit more that "a little bit of financial security". For comparison sake, we sold out old house that was 1400 square feel for 160K and bought the current house that has 2900 square feet. NOW, I could probably sell this place for about 20-30K more than the old house sold for. In all, the old house was too small, was in need of lots of repairs, like eventual siding replacement, etc. and the neighborhood was getting crummy. (no HOA rules to speak of). While it sucks to have lost 90k on my home, the old neighborhood looks like SHIT. Unmowed lawns, junk cars in driveways, ugly a fuck paint jobs, etc. That 160K house is now worth about 100K. (or less) And good luck on trying to sell to anyone who wants to live in a nice looking neighborhood. If I put an outbuilding on my current lot, it would need to be painted to match my house. Oh the horror, my liberty has been stripped away... If it was for my daughter, I could still paint the inside any color I pleased and that would be that. If you want to be able to do as you please with your property, DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN A SUBDIVISION. Easy. If you do by a house in a subdivision and whine, bitch and complain that you have to follow the rules you SIGNED when you bought the place..... well, it is your fault. Your new neighborhood is nice because it has 2900 sqft houses on it. Our neighborhood has no HOA houses are 2200+ sqft 200k+ in SC so people take care of their own because they want to. HOAs are nothing but a pile of crap perpetuated by the same nonsense argument. HOAs keep the riffraff out Yeah, you've said that before. You still haven't explained how suing a family over a pink playhouse keeps out the riffraff. Please enlighten us. But it also seems that HOAs give power to angry people with lives that have gone nowhere, and who end up on power trips for the first time in their lives, the ability to make arbitrary rules just to flex that power. Some guy is stuck working in a cubicle all his adult life decides to take his frustration out on the guy down the street by fining him for parking in the driveway, not the garage. If someone has so much invested in their home and yard that all their self worth is tied into making sure nothing pink is in the yards and all the houses look cookie cutter, I'm living somewhere else. Well, you have to impli,ent change in a civil manner. We can't be doing anything like sometimes violent yokels would do, like flaming bags of excreta, or sending unwanted pizzas...... Rules are rules. You have a say I'm the HOA too. And you need these rules in the face of weak and unenforeceable zoning. If they were robust and enforceable at the municipal level, you wouldn't have nosy nancy the project manager running your gardening schedule.... |
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It's against the CC&R's. Those are my property values too bubb! You shouldn't had signed the contract when you moved in! I bet they have other zoning issues that they will pay dearly for It doesn't look as though it was explicitly against the HOA covenant. It seems the HOA is trying to argue that she needed approval to build/paint this "structure," which probably doesn't fall under the definition of a structure (such as a garage or carport) according to the family of the girl. It's a freaking little playhouse, who seriously gives a shit except for busybody liberals? This is fucking stupid. Great. Just what we need. A bunch of thumpers with guns building little pink shantytowns in their backyards. Property values are a community right, and it is our fiduciary duty to ensure that none of those rights or values are decreased. Also, mow your lawn That phrase makes me feel pissed off. It takes a village Filling in for a certain someone today? Listen up Ohio. Some places need extra rules and extra sets of eyes so yokels don't turn the neighborhood into El Camino Alley. Somehow, these HOA's only seem to turn up in so-called "Free States". The only ones we have in CT are 55+ communities. We coastal folk don't seem to have these issues. However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code Sounds like Big City Thinking to me! It is simply an alternative to a neighborhood kleptocracy. Is your boat stored in the driveway? |
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However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code No zoning or HOA here. West Virgina Yep. I can legally make fully-automatic machine guns in my garage. I'll take that over a stinking HOA any day. |
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However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code No zoning or HOA here. West Virgina Yep. I can legally make fully-automatic machine guns in my garage. I'll take that over a stinking HOA any day. Reported |
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Fuck HOA's and fuck you too DanTSX. Call child protective services? Fucking troll.
My problem with them is my Parents recently built a house in 2006 in a new neighborhood. No HOA. 2 years later their forced to sign some shit ass contract.....yea that's fair. |
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Fuck HOA's and fuck you too DanTSX. Call child protective services? Fucking troll. My problem with them is my Parents recently built a house in 2006 in a new neighborhood. No HOA. 2 years later their forced to sign some shit ass contract.....yea that's fair. Forced to sign? Did someone hold a gun to their heads?. Please be specific. And personal attacks are against the CoC. Maybe might want to civil-up your classy attacks before you get...... Reported |
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However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code No zoning or HOA here. West Virgina Yep. I can legally make fully-automatic machine guns in my garage. I'll take that over a stinking HOA any day. Reported What part of 'legally' do you not understand Eienstein? Bubbles and Hard Rock are a Class 07 SOT. |
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Fuck HOA's and fuck you too DanTSX. Call child protective services? Fucking troll. My problem with them is my Parents recently built a house in 2006 in a new neighborhood. No HOA. 2 years later their forced to sign some shit ass contract.....yea that's fair. How were your parents forced to sign a shit ass contract. If there were truely force I don't believe the contact can be legally enforced. |
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However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code No zoning or HOA here. West Virgina Yep. I can legally make fully-automatic machine guns in my garage. I'll take that over a stinking HOA any day. Reported What part of 'legally' do you not understand Eienstein? Bubbles and Hard Rock are a Class 07 SOT. Is your garage zone for light industrial use? An SOT in CT can make MGs too. |
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Is your garage zone for light industrial use? An SOT in CT can make MGs too. What part of "NO ZONING" is so hard to understand? If we weren't legal then ATF wouldn't have issued the license. I'll take the freedom to do what I want with my property over the power to tell my neighbor what he can do with his any day. |
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However, we do have a very robust and complete zoning code No zoning or HOA here. West Virgina Yep. I can legally make fully-automatic machine guns in my garage. I'll take that over a stinking HOA any day. Reported What part of 'legally' do you not understand Eienstein? Bubbles and Hard Rock are a Class 07 SOT. Is your garage zone for light industrial use? An SOT in CT can make MGs too. What part of "NO ZONING" is so hard to understand? If we weren't legal then ATF wouldn't have issued the license. You know, you didn't state that you lived in an area w/o zoning or the fact that you are an SOT.... I guess west virginians expect other people to read minds.... |
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