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Link Posted: 1/1/2017 7:11:43 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:


more silliness, every bit as bad as the people claiming superiority for the katana because japan.  many of you guys sound like the "is devgru or CAG more badass?" threads.

a sword is like a fighter plane--it is a series of design tradeoffs.  the katana evolved to do a thing in a particular environment.  unless you know off the top of your head what that thing is and that environment is, you can't make a sound comparison.  is the rapier "better than" the type XV?  it depends entirely on what you are doing.

understand, if i had to choose one all-purpose sword for serious business, it would probably not be a katana (for several objective reasons).  but anti-fanboying is every bit as silly as the positive version.  

have a sense of perspective.
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The thing is,  people get sick of hearing how awesome the steel on old Japanese swords was.  

For damn good reason
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:03:51 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE!
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Says someone trolling GD
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:07:41 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
A Spear was always used until it broke before switching to swords.
Spear #1
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^^this

Yup yup, the Romans knew it and the greeks before them.  They take less training, easier to make, easier to care for, and take much less energy to use.  

Even when forced to swap to their gladius, the romans would still only stab with it.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:09:26 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


Is that for muslims?
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Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:15:34 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
This is exactly what we are talking about. A single curved edge with a tsuba for hand protection may win in one area: cutting. Outside of that the longer blades of the Euro swords with their better crossguards or basket hilts and 2 edges is far superior to the Katana in a fight.
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unless you're in a crowd, or need to draw in a hurry, or don't want an extra 6" of blade and 2" of pommel tangling you up, or want the option to use a second hand on the hilt.

this is what people are ignoring--as with your AR, that length is helpful for some things, but comes with a penalty for others.  i'd bet damn near anything that your go-to AR is a carbine, not a 20", even though you're giving up substantial performance.  but what you gain with the shorter barrel may more than offset what you lose in measurables, no?  so maybe oversimplification is a bad idea when assessing weapons.

that said, you'll get no argument from me on the cross vs the disc--the western tsuba is unquestionably superior.  but absolutely nothing prevents you from mounting a cross on a katana, so that's a complete nonissue.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:17:05 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
The thing is,  people get sick of hearing how awesome the steel on old Japanese swords was.  

For damn good reason
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when have you read that here?  i've been involved in pretty much every GD sword thread since i got interested in the subject around 2010ish, and i can't recall anyone saying that japanese steel was better than any other region's.  in fact, most posters bash japanese steel, both for objective and speculative reasons.  it's a trend to do so, fueled by the growing popularity of HEMA.  HEMA is the new hotness--straphangars and fanboys want to be associated with the new hotness.  it's just a lot of affliction-shirt noise.

the guys like DK, maleante, and BR870 who know this stuff from actual training are much more circumspect about the comparative qualities of different kinds of swords.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 8:32:43 PM EDT
[#7]
So we've listed everything that has existed past and present but what I haven't seen are the old weapons mixed with modern tech, such as fasteners.  

I for one would love to see a yari that could have the blade removed from it's long pole and inserted into a 12 to 14 inch shaft.  Or have the "sword" like grip attach to a longer shaft, giving you the option of a sword or spear.  I think with modern technology this could be done.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 10:28:22 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM

These guys train in these weapons, there are sparring vids of them with alotta mixes of weapons.

Really comes down to skill, there's some guys defeating guys with swords with daggers. The katana held up better than I thought against the longsword.
Once skill is taken out of it, reach becomes very important.  

The spear's reach makes it pretty hard to beat.
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Interested in the history of the small shield with fencing. It seems utterly useless in combat. You'd be better off just plating up your left arm.

The sword fighter would have done a LOT better with even a medium sized shield. Pretty cool.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 10:31:10 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


Interested in the history of the small shield with fencing. It seems utterly useless in combat. You'd be better off just plating up your left arm.

The sword fighter would have done a LOT better with even a medium sized shield. Pretty cool.
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a buckler is used in a completely different way than a larger shield.

http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Walpurgis_Fechtbuch_(MS_I.33)

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/i33/i33.htm
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:07:05 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


^^this

Yup yup, the Romans knew it and the greeks before them.  They take less training, easier to make, easier to care for, and take much less energy to use.  

Even when forced to swap to their gladius, the romans would still only stab with it.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
A Spear was always used until it broke before switching to swords.
Spear #1


^^this

Yup yup, the Romans knew it and the greeks before them.  They take less training, easier to make, easier to care for, and take much less energy to use.  

Even when forced to swap to their gladius, the romans would still only stab with it.


While I agree a spear is better than a sword, bringing up the Romans isn't helping your position. Romans threw their spears once they switched from phalanx to maniple.

Julius Caesar was the first to command his legionaries to use the pillum as a thrusting weapon against a cavalry charge , i believe against Pompey at pharsallus.

Further, they didn't choose the spear because it's better at individual combat. They chose it for use in formation combat.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:11:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


The thing is,  people get sick of hearing how awesome the steel on old Japanese swords was.  

For damn good reason
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Until the widespread use of gunpowder, the Japanese had little success in warfare against anyone except Japanese people....
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:17:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Spear.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:35:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


While I agree a spear is better than a sword, bringing up the Romans isn't helping your position. Romans threw their spears once they switched from phalanx to maniple.

Julius Caesar was the first to command his legionaries to use the pillum as a thrusting weapon against a cavalry charge , i believe against Pompey at pharsallus.

Further, they didn't choose the spear because it's better at individual combat. They chose it for use in formation combat.
View Quote

Thank you! also the gladius was used in conjunction with the shield, using the shield to impart body hits to throw the opponent off balance, then stabbing with the sword.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:36:14 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


Interested in the history of the small shield with fencing. It seems utterly useless in combat. You'd be better off just plating up your left arm.

The sword fighter would have done a LOT better with even a medium sized shield. Pretty cool.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM

These guys train in these weapons, there are sparring vids of them with alotta mixes of weapons.

Really comes down to skill, there's some guys defeating guys with swords with daggers. The katana held up better than I thought against the longsword.
Once skill is taken out of it, reach becomes very important.  

The spear's reach makes it pretty hard to beat.


Interested in the history of the small shield with fencing. It seems utterly useless in combat. You'd be better off just plating up your left arm.

The sword fighter would have done a LOT better with even a medium sized shield. Pretty cool.

One component to the use of the small shield was portability.  Swords are like pistols, and a buckler is fairly easy to also carry if you're say, an archer or dealing with a pole arm.  Maybe just getting some beers with your bros

as to their use they're surprisingly effective but exceedingly difficult to do well.  When playing with trigonometry and blades a person can close a lot of openings with a buckler.  That said, even money take the larger shield...same idea as CCW a rifle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:38:00 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:


This is exactly what we are talking about. A single curved edge with a tsuba for hand protection may win in one area: cutting. Outside of that the longer blades of the Euro swords with their better crossguards or basket hilts and 2 edges is far superior to the Katana in a fight.


And everyone knows Type XVII with hand and half hilt is best sword. Duh!
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Hand and a half hilt!?!  Now I know you're trolling!

Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:52:23 AM EDT
[#16]
Flamethrower was covered early.  I thought that the gas would be an issue in a post-apocalyptic scenario, but otherwise the primal fear of BEING BURNED ALIVE is on your side.

Of the listed items in the OP, I'd go with the tomahawk.  Brutal, to the point, and in a post-apocalyptic world maybe I'd like taking out some frustration in a direct way.

Of course, that would be for the attacking hordes of old people, because the 20-something bangers would eat me alive.  Unless I wasn't out of ammo or things that went boom or thud.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:55:37 AM EDT
[#17]
M16 with bayonet

The M16 could keep people at bay just on suspicion it's loaded
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 12:58:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Gotta go with tractor trailer rig.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 4:12:59 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I have one of these in my truck. I wouldn't want to get hit with it.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1083/1014/products/truckers-friend_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481160504

Trucker's Friend
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I like that. I think I need to buy one.

This place is gonna break me.  
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 7:21:42 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


I like that. I think I need to buy one.

This place is gonna break me.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one of these in my truck. I wouldn't want to get hit with it.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1083/1014/products/truckers-friend_1024x1024.jpg?v=1481160504

Trucker's Friend


I like that. I think I need to buy one.

This place is gonna break me.  


Lulz...that's rich coming from you!  How much have you cost arfcomers with you handgonnes?

Yeah....handgonne is on my 2017 list.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 11:11:23 PM EDT
[#21]
For the PAW? Something between a halberd and a halligan tool.  I don't want something that weighs a ton, and I want something that has some flexibility.
Link Posted: 1/2/2017 11:22:05 PM EDT
[#22]
My choice would be something like a Naval Cutlass.  The OP specified melee weapon and I'm willing to bet that boarding or defending a ship that was filled with a lot of other semi-skilled but motivated dudes with pointy things is a melee and probably some of the last actually fought with swords.  I like the Naval Cutlass. Cavalry saber might be up there too but it's longer which can be an advantage in some situations and a disadvantage in others.  But the Cutlass is short enough to be handy but long enough to have sufficient stand off to someone with a knife, marlinspike or whatever the heck else someone fought with on a ship. Or what most ground based rabble would be armed with.  The hand holding it is pretty well protected from cuts and knocks and the hand guard is an effective striking and pushing tool itself.  It has a curved blade which is great at cutting and slashing.  We are talking melee here, not fencing.  The whole idea is to exact maximum disability on the folks around you without having to overthink the whole thing.

Also thinking that just about everything that could be done with a sword had been done by the 1800's.  Armor was long gone.  Extensive sword training (as in starting as a kid) was long gone for most.  Armies and navies were issuing something as a last ditch close up weapon that could be pretty effective with minimal training.  And most were issuing some variant of the cutlass or saber (which differed mostly in length).  They seemed to have pretty much drifted to a single edge, curved blade and a hand guard of some kind.  They must have for pretty good reasons.  The odds of running up against a skilled swordsman in a SHTF situation are slim.  But there will be quick learners.  If you have played with even a garbage sword the stand off distance is real game changer for someone not similarly armed.  Someone with a club or a knife would be hard pressed to get inside it even with someone of limited skill.
Link Posted: 1/3/2017 1:30:23 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Bag of dicks.  No one wants to fuck with the guy swinging an entire bag of dicks.
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Paging TRG.  TRG, please pick up the white courtesy phone.
Link Posted: 1/3/2017 1:53:39 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:


Yeah, they're not remotely heavy. My Type XII greatsword is about as big as functional swords get (some of the Landsknecht zweihanders were massive) and it's only 3 and a half pounds. I think people get confused by those gigantic bearing swords they see in museums and think those were actually usable weapons rather than the parade displays they are.
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I'm embarrassed to realize that I had no idea how light real swords are. I guess my thinking has been skewed by playing with POS replicas when I was younger I just weighed a cheap Gladius replica I've had for years and it's 2lbs, the weight difference has to go up exponentially with larger swords.
Link Posted: 1/3/2017 2:24:26 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
I'm embarrassed to realize that I had no idea how light real swords are. I guess my thinking has been skewed by playing with POS replicas when I was younger I just weighed a cheap Gladius replica I've had for years and it's 2lbs, the weight difference has to go up exponentially with larger swords.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Yeah, they're not remotely heavy. My Type XII greatsword is about as big as functional swords get (some of the Landsknecht zweihanders were massive) and it's only 3 and a half pounds. I think people get confused by those gigantic bearing swords they see in museums and think those were actually usable weapons rather than the parade displays they are.
I'm embarrassed to realize that I had no idea how light real swords are. I guess my thinking has been skewed by playing with POS replicas when I was younger I just weighed a cheap Gladius replica I've had for years and it's 2lbs, the weight difference has to go up exponentially with larger swords.


Most real swords used for fighting were, generally, well under 5 pounds. Most ranged from 2 to 4 pounds, depending on size, while some of the larger two-handed ones ranged from 4 to 8 pounds.

The largest ones, as MVolkJ mentioned, were ceremonial blades; though still quite formidable in the hands of a man strong enough to wield one, it would be like swinging a 10-pound, 52" wrecking bar. Good way to fuck up your wrists, elbows, shoulders and your back, and that's aside from wearing yourself out inside a few minutes.
Link Posted: 1/5/2017 7:42:23 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

One component to the use of the small shield was portability.  Swords are like pistols, and a buckler is fairly easy to also carry if you're say, an archer or dealing with a pole arm.  Maybe just getting some beers with your bros

as to their use they're surprisingly effective but exceedingly difficult to do well.  When playing with trigonometry and blades a person can close a lot of openings with a buckler.  That said, even money take the larger shield...same idea as CCW a rifle.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM

These guys train in these weapons, there are sparring vids of them with alotta mixes of weapons.

Really comes down to skill, there's some guys defeating guys with swords with daggers. The katana held up better than I thought against the longsword.
Once skill is taken out of it, reach becomes very important.  

The spear's reach makes it pretty hard to beat.


Interested in the history of the small shield with fencing. It seems utterly useless in combat. You'd be better off just plating up your left arm.

The sword fighter would have done a LOT better with even a medium sized shield. Pretty cool.

One component to the use of the small shield was portability.  Swords are like pistols, and a buckler is fairly easy to also carry if you're say, an archer or dealing with a pole arm.  Maybe just getting some beers with your bros

as to their use they're surprisingly effective but exceedingly difficult to do well.  When playing with trigonometry and blades a person can close a lot of openings with a buckler.  That said, even money take the larger shield...same idea as CCW a rifle.


Ah, I see. Good points. I also watched a video demonstration of the coverage area of a small buckler when held straight out as opposed to close to the body like a large shield. With your rapier and buckler out in front, the angles your opponent sees leaves very little openings. But still very difficult to use.

Agreed. It's like a pistol.
Link Posted: 1/5/2017 9:37:28 PM EDT
[#27]
Okay, I want a 5' staff with bayonet lug hardware....
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