Posted: 11/26/2002 7:05:01 PM EDT
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Here's a classic from cyberpump.com that I saved a few years ago. It's about 20-rep squats. I'm still sore from doing them Friday night! If you've done them before or do them after being inspired from reading the below, then please share. I'd like to know I'm not the only crazy one here: The Battle for 20! by Sean Toohey Squatting is no big deal, right? I mean, you drop in the hole and rise again with a barbell nestled comfortably on your shoulders -- crank a few reps and you're done, or if you are looking for cuts you flex your thighs between reps as Ahhhnold suggests, right? No!! No self-respecting LIFTER would ever show such disrespect to his brethren! John McCallum was the first man I read that said it bluntly: "Load the bar with your normal 10 rep poundage. Now do 20 reps. No kidding." This was used again in "Super Squats" by Dr. Strossen and it is worth carving into a plaque and mounting over the squat rack. 20 rep squats are the ultimate exercise in that they take every aspect -- every descriptor of an exercise and turn the volume knob to 10 (or should I say 20!?). They start in your head, and they end in your head. I squat in the evening. I can't squat in the morning or I would be too anxious to sleep the night prior. Maybe it is an addiction, I don't know; all day long I anticipate what I am attempting that night. I know the sight of the bar, I know which plates will be loaded on which side and in what order. I know the smell of my basement, the echo it makes, everything. And I see that squat happening all day long. By the time I arrive home I'm in "squat mode." Think of it as approximately the same mental attitude necessary to rush a machine gun nest. My wife grins her, "I married a maniac" grin and says not a word. The next hour is what keeps her husband sane, and she knows this. My basement is where the serious psyching occurs and I get down to business right away. Once thoroughly warmed up I nod at my bar. It nods back (don't believe me?) and we go to work. Its a relationship my bar and I have, and it is one of mutual respect. The bar always has my respect, but I must constantly earn this in return. That damn bar is one judgmental bastard and accepts nothing less than a true test before it grants me approval. I must prove myself to a chunk of iron. Step into my cage, nest the bar into position, rise and test the flex. The day that bar gets too whippy is the day it retires. One step back, check my foot placement and immediately soften my focus. I always know the first rep. It feels much like an amusement park ride that has just begun to move. Down in the hole and up, 5 reps, no rest, lots of breathing. I'm actually feeling it at the end of that 5th rep. I mentioned before that the psyching starts now, and I play a mind game that allows me to psych for one rep and ride the coat tails for another. SIX! C'mon... get Six! SIX.. FOCUS! Down, up, down, up. Six and seven are history and gone from my mind. Pumpers that can out squat me in pounds would rack the bar now, its heavy enough. EIGHT DAMMIT!! GET IT NOW! Bang, Bang. Chalk up 9 reps. My back is getting pumped and the burn is starting. "God Almighty, help me get these reps! Keep that burn AWAY!" More reps... and I notice that the rise from the hole is getting fearsome. By 12 reps I can see the doubt in my mind but I cannot even pay a split second of attention to it or I am done. THIRRRRTTEEEEEEENNNN!!! Ahhh yeah... that hurts. Fourteen and fifteen come after coaxing myself not to die. Sixteen and seventeen just plain suck. I can't say enough about the horribleness of those reps. There is no end in sight for them so you have nothing to anticipate. They hurt because your body is just mashed like a pancake. Your back and legs are screaming at you to let them out of this hell, and they take too long to complete the mission. Your abs are flexed enough that if that bar came off your shoulders you would puke -- the only thing keeping the contents intact is the weight you are fighting. And at this point I know that if I rack the weight I have failed. I also know that every rep I continue through from here is my reward. I like rewards, and I strive on. "YAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!" The breath forces itself out now and 18 is done. Nineteen is always doubtful and I'm never sure I will make it given how long 18 takes to complete. The rise out of the hole is pure agony and made all the more miserable by the fact that I'M STILL NOT DONE! Keep your FORM!!! ONE MORE!! ONE MORE!!! YEAH!!! And down I go. The rise out of 20 is fueled by one sentence: "RACK THE BAR!!!" I always get 20 if I get 19. And I rack the bar. I have a hard time adjusting to the feeling of empty shoulders at this point, and my entire body gives out. With luck I land on the bench a mile away from me (1/2 step) and do a few pullovers to assist my breathing. I usually cannot see for a minute or two, and I can literally feel the heartbeat in my neck as I lay on the bench or floor. My thighs fibrillate from the shock and my back is screaming in agony. The pain is severe and immediate. As it subsides I lay there on the ground, thoughtless and empty. My dues are paid and I get to be a lifter for another week. Just to make sure I'm approved I nod at my bar. It nods back. And I'm redeemed. |
| mmmmmmmmm.....sounds scrumptious....20 rep squats, personally, I've never done more then 12ish, and that was 20 years ago, but Z, my friend, can I call you my friend ? [:D]Next legs day I'm going to try 20ish, I usually do them till my head is dizzy, inside/with the smith machine though. |
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hey zoom, what weight did you get your 20 reps with. i did 2 sets of 20 at 135#,yea not much but i'm a light weight. i did lay off the leg press between sets,and did 2 sets of 20,then went after a 1 rep max. i got 225# 1 time,i thought that was good for me as in march i was at 195x1 for max. my glutes are screaming today,along with that soft piece of flesh on the inside of the thighs. josam |
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Sean Toohey knows his stuff! Keep reading anything he writes even if you never use it :) Those 20rep squat sessions are completely brutal to say the least! Another "smoke show" for you is to do some drop sets on the leg press. Start heavy and let partners on each side strip plates...try your best to nail 30-35reps w/o much of a break :) Let me know how you feel when you fall off the side of the seat and can't stand back up. No joke! |
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Actually more than 8 is acceptable if you are using the shock method that the thread was started on. "Never more than 8" is a pretty general statement when you are looking at a variety of training styles/methods/principals. Works for some people, doesn't for others. I only did shock sets every couple of months for something different. Never failed to tear me up and it's a really good change of pace from the norm. |
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Quoted: "Load the bar with your normal 10 rep poundage. Now do 20 reps. No kidding." But if your 10-rep poundage is achieving failure, you [i]can't[/i] do 20...or your sets of 10 aren't big enough. Or do I misunderstand...? Long ago, when I had a gym membership, I loved leg day. The only thing that bugged me was the weights were on the [b]second[/b] floor! Took me a while to get down to the locker room! Now I'm a slob, but I'm on the treadmill every day, and it's working. Next up, weight bench for the basement. fwiw Scott |
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20 reps are the bomb, and not just fer squats. Try 'em with the benchpress as well, just for shits&giggles. Also, try taking a DEEP breath before you decend on the squat - it will help stiffen your torso and keep your back aligned properly. And you don't need to go fast, in fact, the slower you go the more you'll feel the push. Make your decent nice and slow and your body will thank you, after the pain subsides. Squats are the single best exercise you can do for yourself. |
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Quoted: Actually more than 8 is acceptable if you are using the shock method that the thread was started on. "Never more than 8" is a pretty general statement when you are looking at a variety of training styles/methods/principals. Works for some people, doesn't for others. I only did shock sets every couple of months for something different. Never failed to tear me up and it's a really good change of pace from the norm. It depends on one's goals. If one's goal is strength, the 20 rep work out is bad. If it's endurance, or "toning", then it's fine. |
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But if your 10-rep poundage is achieving failure, you can't do 20...or your sets of 10 aren't big enough. Or do I misunderstand...? I think the author was exaggerating a little. This wasn't clear from the article, but elsewhere I've seen him mention that you pause as long as necessary between each rep. So, 20 reps with your 10 rep weight is doable. You just have to pace yourself. Think of it as much of a cardiovascular exercise as a weight lifting one, then it makes sense. I'd suggest dropping the weight down quite a bit from your 10-rep weight. If you can force-out 20 reps with your 10-rep weight, then you deserve an award. I've seen it done, but the lifter had to pause over 20 seconds between each of the last seven or eight reps. I prefer to use a little less weight and go a little faster.z |
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what weight did you get your 20 reps with. i did 2 sets of 20 at 135#,yea not much but i'm a light weight. That's not bad. The important thing is that next time you add a little more weight and still get your 20. Rinse and repeat. As long as you keep it up, you can't lose. You're putting too much emphasis on where you start. I'm only doing about 20# more than that. It's only about 30% of my 1RM (estimated since I've never tried it), but I just can't do more. My muscles just seem to stop working. It's like my brain is sending the signal to the muscles, and they're just not listening. I've got what I'm pretty sure is the onset of Parkinson's. I have bradykinesia, muscle rigidity at times, slight tremors with my hands, annunciation problems, and it's gotten almost impossible for me to write. I don't guess there's much doubt about it. I haven't seen any info about Parkinson's that could relate this problem to it, but if I get worse I'll have to ask a doctor. It hasn't gotten any worse in the past three years, so I've been putting-off it off. I like to think my going all-out lifting weights has helped. my glutes are screaming today, If your glutes are sore, then you must have gone down low enough. Good job! along with that soft piece of flesh on the inside of the thighs. You're probably talking about the adductor longus muscle. That muscle used to bother me, but that was years ago. Now, it's so overgrown that my legs rub together when I walk. It's a little uncomfortable, and I've worn-thin several pairs of pants in that spot. I've noticed that a slightly narrower stance will put less strain on that muscle. Also, pointing your toes more inward can help. Just make sure you keep your toes relatively in line with your knees. The only muscle I have that more often than not that gets sore from high-rep squats is that one that goes from the outside of your hips across your quads then to the inside of your thighs. I'm pretty sure it's called the satorius. When you're standing and pick-up one foot to move your heel so it touches your other knee, it's the satorius that is doing most of the work. Whatever it is, I'm working it hard. Mine hasn't gotten strong enough...yet.z PS: I've never had a biology class, much less an anatomy class so I'd appreciate any corrections to what I've posted. |
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zoom and cincinnatus, guys i want your input here on this. what about going to a workout program that every 5 days i do legs,and alternate between heavy and light,heavy low reps,light high reps. so every 10 days i would do heavy squats with the alternate set being a resting period but still doing high rep maintainence squats. guys since i just started squating and am over 40 i don't see my self ever getting close to squating twice my weight. yea i would love to be able to hit ten at 225#. josam |
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joseph_samuel, if I understand you correctly, you're talking about working-out once every five days. On day 1, you'd lift heavy weights with low reps. On day 6, you'd lift light weights with high reps. On day 11, you go back to heavy. My usual advice, and I know this isn't very satisfying, is to just try it and see. Five days between work-outs might be a little too long for someone your age. On the other hand, if you have a lot of stress and don't get enough sleep, then five days between work-outs still might not be long enough. It also depends on how hard you work. I usually use the high reps as a chance to do something different. I don't do it every work-out or even every fourth work-out. I'd suggest just trying it to see how you like it. For me, high reps every other work-out would be too much. It takes me a couple of days to recover from a set of 8-rep squats, and four to five days to recover from 20-rep squats. I walk about six miles to work and about a mile from work to visit my wife in a nursing home, so my recovery time is severely impaired. I only do 20-rep squats when I either have a ride to work arranged, or I'm not working for a couple of days after. You might also want to think ahead when planning on when to do high-reps. yea i would love to be able to hit ten at 225#. 225# is a nice goal. Assuming you have a 45# bar, you simply put a pair of 45# plates on each end. Any weight below that just doesn't look nearly as impressive.z |
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I would not advise doing squats every 5 days. That's a road to injury. Try them once a week. If you're getting stronger, that means it's working. [url=http://www.drsquat.com/videos/1014VMHB.rm]Click Here to see Fred Hatfield Squat 1015lbs[/url] Most important... [size=6]Get wide, get LOW.[/size=6] Your feet should be wider apart than your shoulders (mine touch the sides of the squat cage). During a powerlifting season, I do squats once every other Monday, on the alternate Mondays, I do Deadlift. On these days, I do accessory exercises for the following week's workout. (Bench EVERY Thursday) Example: [b]Squat Monday[/b] 135x4 135x4 225x4 315x2 405x1 Max x1 accessories: HEAVY Rack Pulls [b]Deadlift Monday[/b] 135x4 135x4 225x4 315x2 405x1 max x1 accessories: Low Box Squats. Avoiding injury is the key. Ask around, and you'll find out that EVERYONE overtrains. They get hurt. They don't give their muscles enough recovery time. Remember, if your getting stronger, it's working. Don't be impatient. Strength requires your body to be traumatized. Let it heal. |
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thanks for the input zoom and cincinnatus. my foot stance is a little wider than my shoulders,and i do get low,my ass is almost on my ankles,i squat outside the rack because of the way i spread my arms they hit the squat rack. i place both hands on the inside face of the plates. oh well,thanks again for the input guys,i will try switching up workouts and get some deadlift workouts thrown in. josam |
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Your stance sounds outstanding! Make sure the bar's not on the back of your neck. As you describe, however, I doubt it is. With your hands that wide, the bar goes further down the back (at least 6-8" below the base of the neck). This involves more of the back. When you do it right, your legs won't be as sore, afterwards. Your hip flexors, and lower back will feel it a little. |