[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2nd amendment argument (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/24/2008 5:06:57 PM EDT
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How? They have to pass an amendment repealing the 2nd Amendment by 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress and then 38 states have to ratify it. Texas, Tennessee, Virginia, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Arizona, Nevada, Montana, Vermont, Kentucky, Mississippi, Utah won't and that's already enough to shoot down any idiotic scheme to repeal the 2nd. Plus there will be hell to pay the next time elections are held for any motherfucker in Congress that voted in favor of that repeal. If you thought the 1994 democrat ass whupping was a spectacle to behold, it will be nothing compared to what voters will do if the donkey party tries to repeal the 2A. |
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A) The Govt CANNOT remove the 2nd from the BOR. It takes a Constitutional Convention to amend it & then it has to be ratified by the states in order to pass muster. (This is why the ERA Amendment failed to pass in the 1970s-1980s) B) As for still needing it, drop your "friend" off in your nearest MLK Blvd. part of town & then let him walk around for 3-4 hours by his lonesome at night. Then, if he lives, ask him if his opinion has changed......................  C) You need a better choice of friends............. 
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What he said. Even if Hitlery/ Hussein win in '08 and the entire caucus of (R)'s (and RKBA friendly (D)'s) up and left out of disgust, the only way they could start "cherry picking" the Constitution and removing troublesome amendments is by putting us into a situation where the intent of the 2nd would become plainly apparant. |
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Well, the worst thing is he seems to think its a good idea. "He says there's no use." Aside from the obvious... it's there IN CASE they try and remove parts of the constitution, ask him how my 70 year old mother is supposed to defend herself against a 18 year old crack head. I'd have to shit on him right there. I honestly couldn't eat looking at someone who thinks that. The second thing is he's an idiot that has no understanding of the constitution. IT would be so close to impossible that you might as well say it is. What they will do is what they have always done to control and tax us more. They will back door it, just like you suggested. |
Yoooo have learned much, glasshopper... 
"There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." — Krusty the Clown |
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the second amendment IS obsolete. It was originally designed to deter tyranny. Today nobody has any use for weapons anymore. I say this because there is no one who is willing to take up arms today against tyranny and most people think that the police are there to protect them. The people who COULD make a difference if they wanted to are unwilling to do so. They go out and buy the coolest most "tactical" gear they can find, but if push ever comes to shove they're usually the first ones looking for some place to hide until it's all over with. The second amendment IS obsolete. |
Well said!!! |
 Wow you are gonna get flamed. Justifiably BTW. |
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Our creator gave us our rights. No one can take them away. Not even a new Amendment. |
And it just got interesting, sports fans! |
Popcorn? Who has the popcorn? I know you guys have it, I can smell it. |
 There's no way I'm tagging this  |
Heres my stab at this. Are you retarded? |
 I suppose I'm one of those guys then because I like tricking out my rifle? Let me put it to you like this. You don't know me. You don't know my character, or the character of my friends, some of which I have served in combat with. I've laid it on the line before so what makes you think I wont do it again? I joined the Corps with the hope of going to Iraq. I got my wish, and I was happy to go back a second time. I've been there done that, got the Tshirt. I don't like being called a coward.  |
I think your roomate needs to grow up a whole lot. I think your roomate is likely to shit his/herself once the Supreme Court rules on Heller this summer and finds the Second Amendment is an individual right if he/she doesn't grow up fast. |
What do you guys think?
what the hell does iraq have to do with our own government going tyrannical? also the time when lives being laid on the line against our government to defend against tyranny was a LONNNNNNG time ago. I think you missed the bus. It's been time. that's my point. |
Well It has to do with character. You made a character assessment about pretty much everyone here. As for the rest of your post... Bad days may be on the horizon, but IMHO "TYRANNY" isn't here yet. As much as you may disagree, there is still a chance to work shit out in a peaceful manner. I will submit our window of opportunity is closing. |
Where in the hell is the "tyranny" you speak of??? I have yet to see things so bad off that I feel the need to form a neighborhood militia. So WTF have you done to stop this tyranny? |
There are people who thought that "the time" was when the Congress levied a tax on distilled spirits to pay for our debts incurred during the revolution. The Whiskey Rebellion 1794 Then there was this little adventure: John Fries' rebellion 1799
And even folks in the tiniest state can get agitated: The Dorr Rebellion of 1841 Folks got pissed about America's occupation of the New Mexico territory: The Taos Revolt of 1847 Even Puerto Ricanos in 1950 can get pissed: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayuya_Uprising There have been scores of "times" and acts of "tryanny" when various groups thought that the government had gone too far. I'm not disagreeing with you, but when the exact time is and what the tipping point of tryanny is a very subjective issue. |
you can't negotiate with politicians who: a. don't want to listen b. know they have unlimited power |
You don't have to negotiate. You just vote them out. |
what makes you think the american people are going to vote against people in office who pamper them? furthermore what assurance do you have against excess voter fraud? |
As long as our government stands for election then it is not a tyrrany. |
Sections 1615 and 1622 of the 2008 Defense Authorization Act The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 (HR 1955) Executive Order 13233: Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act The Real ID Act of 2005 Sections 1076 and 333 of the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007. The Military Commissions Act(this hit posse comitatus big time) Then of course there's the patriot act with its unconstitutional gag orders and national security letters. the NSLs were ruled unconstitutional but the justice dept has openly admitted still using them. oh yeah your votes sure are working. uh huh. oh yeah dont forget this little gem.... Martial Law Presidential Decision Directive 51 |
If you don't like the way the government is working then you vote for someone else. If the majority votes for socialists then that's what you get, but it isn't tyrrany. When the government refuses to stand for election, then it's tyrrany. |
polly wanna cracker? you said that once before. ever look up tyranny in the dictionary? you're thinking dictatorship. I think you have your two governmental evils confused. go back to school. tyr·an·ny /ˈtɪrəni/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tir-uh-nee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural -nies. 1. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. 2. the government or rule of a tyrant or absolute ruler. 3. a state ruled by a tyrant or absolute ruler. 4. oppressive or unjustly severe government on the part of any ruler. 5. undue severity or harshness. 6. a tyrannical act or proceeding. and yes i know "absolute ruler" is in there but it isnt the only definition. don't kid yourself. by your logic we can easily assume that adolf hitler was not a tyrant. he was elected after all. |
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Principles of Tyranny by Jon Roland Definition of tyranny Tyranny is usually thought of as cruel and oppressive, and it often is, but the original definition of the term was rule by persons who lack legitimacy, whether they be malign or benevolent. Historically, benign tyrannies have tended to be insecure, and to try to maintain their power by becoming increasingly oppressive. Therefore, rule that initially seems benign is inherently dangerous, and the only security is to maintain legitimacy — an unbroken accountability to the people through the framework of a written constitution that provides for election of key officials and the division of powers among branches and officials in a way that avoids concentration of powers in the hands of a few persons who might then abuse those powers. We still have this. |
who in the hell is Jon Roland and what makes him more legitimate than the dictionary? once more by your logic through using a private author we can easily assume that the brady campaign is correct about the second amendment. I mean after all, aren't they private writers too? Jon Roland is meaningless. Tyranny means oppressions. that's it. |
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Sounds like your roommate is a moron, so give his stupid ideal a stupid response. I would have just said in a calm voice "Well if you don't think the 2nd Amendment has any use then when the zombies rise from the dead to feast on the flesh of the living don't come running to me to save your ass, your on your own." ETA: My personal belief is that the 2nd Amendment is the very definition of freedom itself, those that don't believe in the 2nd are the ones who don't understand what it truly means to be free and do not comprehend the meaning of liberty. |
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easy way to get rid of your room mate. when he comes in the door from class, make sure you have a rifle in your hand. look like you're minding your own business and talking to yourself and say subtly but loud enough to where he can hear " the time's coming......" then when he's trying to sleep, just sit in the middle of the hall with a bowie knife and sharpen it on a dry whet stone muttering "soon" over and over. he'll be out of there real quick!!!!! P.S. this is dark humor. don't take it literally. |
You challenge the author and not the ideas? I guess you get to pick the legitimacy of the authors used. If the oppression was caused by a unified or single force with absolute power then it would be tyranny. We have 3 branches of government that oversee each other. We have politicians that stand for elections and that can be removed from office without elections. There is no concentration of power. If tyranny only meant oppressions then every single person on earth is under some degree of tyranny. |
ok.... I'm sorry, did you bother reading the dictionary entry? and there is na concentration of power. it's in the federal government. go read the bills i listed before commenting. you'll save yourself some extreme humiliation. as for a certain degree of tyranny give me a break, I think you know where I'm going with the shit I just listed. we're talking no privacy, no speech rights, no fair trials, no right to arms, no NOTHING. that "degree of tyranny" statement sounds like something a lawyer would say: some guy who preaches about using common sense to avoid having to use a gun, but the moment he gets in the courtroom he completely sheds any use of common sense and is a complete smartass looking for an edge at every angle regardless of how dumb it would sound it normal every day conversation. |
Dude, the point that MB is making is that just b/c you and some others disagree w/ how our gov't runs shit, doesn't make it a tyranny. Sucks to no end that there are morons out there that vote for the dipshits in office. Hell, I believe that the use of "benefits" to the so called poor is the same as just buying their damn vote. It's still a vote though. When the revolution occurred, the Colonies, AS A WHOLE, didn't like what was going down, and didn't have a SAY in the decisions. Bit different today. I still want to know what you have done to prepare for tyranny. |
You say something as broad as "oppression is tyranny" and then act like it is me manipulating words. It's true if oppression is tyranny then everyone is living under a tyrant. I guess I will save myself any further extreme humiliation you were about to unleash upon me and call it a night. Good luck. |
so in other words it's ok to set up national ID cards, ban all gun ownership, ban you from saying certain things, subjecting you to warrantless searches, snooping on your phone calls, labelling you a "domestic terrorist" if they disagree with how I think. ok gotcha 100%. police state = freedom. I guess we should have a national Adolf Hitler day and take the day off to celebrate his heroics. as for the colonies, actually the colonies as a whole generally didn't care enough one way or another. it was only 5% of the actual colonists that lifted fingers while the rest said to quit and just go along peacefully to avoid any violent conflict. But whatever, I think you all know what I'm getting at. Our rights are being destroyed and everyone here is saying go along to get along. I get it. R.I.P. USA. It was good while it lasted. and voting doesn't mean shit in regards to freedom. |
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