Posted: 10/28/2009 11:41:41 AM EDT
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IF and only if, 4473s were properly disposed of, say, 1 month after sale, and no records were kept anywhere on the state, federal, or local level, would you support the "instant" background check system?
For the record - I have an AR, 2 pistols, and a shotgun, and I just went with a friend of mine to get his first pistol, a G23 and that's what got me thinking about this. 
Poll inbound ETA: In this scenario it would simply be a criminal check. If you are a criminal, no sale. If you are not, you can get anything, including NFA. |
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IF and only if, 4473s were properly disposed of, say, 1 month after sale, and no records were kept anywhere on the state, federal, or local level, would you support the "instant" background check system? For the record - I have an AR, 2 pistols, and a shotgun, and I just went with a friend of mine to get his first pistol, a G23 and that's what got me thinking about this.
Poll inbound Sure? Why not? It will keep a known felon from obtaining a firearm. I have no problem with a quick background check. Thats ok by me. On the other hand, Form 4473 is quite annoying and im positive something else could be done to streamline the process. |
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4473 is registration. All they need is to call in the background check. This... I would even argue against background checks though. Personally I think that if a person is deemed a danger to society they should still be in jail, not out gun shopping. If they did their time and they are out and behaving themselves then they should be entitled to all their civil rights. ETA: And before anyone uses the overcrowded jails argument, I wanna say why are we jailing non-violent offenders? That is what those bracelets are for. Let them keep their jobs and punish them in other ways. Martha Stewart did NOT need to waste valuable prison space. |
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4473 is registration. All they need is to call in the background check. Yes I agree - I'm just saying, what if all the records of the transaction were destroyed after a month?? Though we know the .gov would never do that...  Immediately destroying them is still too long to be constitutional... |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. Ok then, fair enough... You need a state-issued ID to buy a gun, right? Why not put a flag on someone's ID if they are prohibited??? |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. This does not match this. If he shouldn't have the right to do it, then.......institutionalization/full-time family watch (imprisonment is what those are) is the right thing. IF he is as bad as the red part sounds. |
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Bad guys will get guns no matter how much of a pain in the ass they make it for the rest of us to get them.
Anyone who thinks the gov will toss records out after so many days is a fool. Once they have the info they will use it to someday come and take your guns. |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. This does not match this. If he shouldn't have the right to do it, then.......institutionalization/full-time family watch (imprisonment is what those are) is the right thing. IF he is as bad as the red part sounds. He is semi functional , he seems ok maybe just alittle wierd right up until he goes all wizard and tries to cast a spell on you. He is not crazy enough to have commited but too crazy for a gun. The flagged ID idea above this post aint a bad idea. |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. This does not match this. If he shouldn't have the right to do it, then.......institutionalization/full-time family watch (imprisonment is what those are) is the right thing. IF he is as bad as the red part sounds. He is semi fuctional , he seems ok maybe just alittle wierd right up until he goes all wizard and tries to cast a spell on you. He is not crazy enough to have commited but too crazy for a gun. The flagged ID idea above this post aint a bad idea. and you could do it for people who get DUIs aswell, and gay people, and smokers, and fat people, and women, and college educated, and.... |
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No.
Mostly because I don't believe in this concept of eternal voluntary punishment. If you're so dangerous that you can't be let free and "allowed" to buy a gun, then you shouldn't be let free. If you are, you can damn sure get a gun through channels other than your local FFL, and this will never change. |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. This does not match this. If he shouldn't have the right to do it, then.......institutionalization/full-time family watch (imprisonment is what those are) is the right thing. IF he is as bad as the red part sounds. He is semi fuctional , he seems ok maybe just alittle wierd right up until he goes all wizard and tries to cast a spell on you. He is not crazy enough to have commited but too crazy for a gun. The flagged ID idea above this post aint a bad idea. and you could do it for people who get DUIs aswell, and gay people, and smokers, and fat people, and women, and college educated, and.... I know but whats the ansewer? |
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My brother inlaw is schizophrenic, as much as I dont like choosing who gets rights and who dosn't, he should not have a gun, drive a car, or a whole host of other things he has the right to do under the Constitution. He does not deserve prison or death. This does not match this. If he shouldn't have the right to do it, then.......institutionalization/full-time family watch (imprisonment is what those are) is the right thing. IF he is as bad as the red part sounds. He is semi fuctional , he seems ok maybe just alittle wierd right up until he goes all wizard and tries to cast a spell on you. He is not crazy enough to have commited but too crazy for a gun. The flagged ID idea above this post aint a bad idea. and you could do it for people who get DUIs aswell, and gay people, and smokers, and fat people, and women, and college educated, and.... I know but whats the ansewer? I think we're pretty close to the answer right now....In VA, you can buy a gun, go through the NICS check and be on your way. Yes, the 4473 is retained by the dealer, and in that regard, it is a registration of sorts...however once I buy a gun I can sell it, melt it down, whatever and I don't have to report that, so the 4473 as a record of what guns you own is pretty worthless, IMO. I have no problem making someone go through a background check to prevent the violent felons, mentally unstable, etc. from purchasing a gun....they can't all be in jail (and as in the case of the brother above, not all SHOULD be in jail). ETA: And serving your time for a crime you committed does not make you rehabilitated....the fact that you have 'paid your dues' doesn't necessarily make you any less of a danger if you have anger management issues, etc. Last I checked, having a bad temper is not a jailable offense. |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender registration and loss of rights |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender redgistration and loss of rights But that's not what he said.....If they're out of prison, then how do you identify them without doing a 4473 and a NICS check, which is the topic of this thread in the first place. |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender redgistration and loss of rights But that's not what he said.....If they're out of prison, then how do you identify them without doing a 4473 and a NICS check, which is the topic of this thread in the first place. You wont hear me argue over 4473s NICS checks. I think the current set up is ok. ETA. I think SOME felons should not lose rights. |
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In before the Red Dawn pic w/ the Cuban colonel saying, "Retrieve from the files, form 4473." I'm for no 4473. The background check doesn't bother me, but I don't think being a felon who has paid your debt to society should necessarily preclude you from owning firearms. |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender registration and loss of rights Not if you follow the logic of being clear once you pay your debt to society. |
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. So how long have you been beating your wife? 
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender redgistration and loss of rights But that's not what he said.....If they're out of prison, then how do you identify them without doing a 4473 and a NICS check, which is the topic of this thread in the first place. If they are "safe" enough to be out of the joint, they are "safe" enough to buy a gun... Anything else is convenient fiction. |
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In before the Red Dawn pic w/ the Cuban colonel saying, "Retrieve from the files, form 4473." I'm for no 4473. The background check doesn't bother me, but I don't think being a felon who has paid your debt to society should necessarily preclude you from owning firearms. I think this best sums up how I feel. Maybe as soon as a person is approved the form would be destroyed on the spot via burning. Obviously if it's rejected then it might be worth keeping... |
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The Illinois State Police have been ordered to by federal courts to destroy records of gun purchases that they have been keeping illegally for years.
They have refused and nothing has happened to them or the States Governor. At least they finally got to Rod Blagovehich, the dirt bag that made this state look bad for years, and still got reelected by the morons that vote for whoever they are told by the corrupt system we have here in Illinois. Maybe one day, the State of Illinois will become what it could be. A great place to live and where honest citizens can defend themselves, like the founding fathers designed it to be. 
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. So how long have you been beating your wife? Nope. Beating is illegal. I administer discipline. 
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If a felon is too dangerous to own firearms, what is he doing out of jail and/or why was he not executed? Once you have finished your sentence, you have PAID IN FULL your debt to society. Guess you are another supporter of pedophiles. Who the fuck said anything about lettting pedophiles out of prison? So you're saying that being charged with a pedophile related crime should carry a mandatory life sentence (or death sentence)? Just asking for clarification. It does carry a life sentence of sorts , sex offender redgistration and loss of rights But that's not what he said.....If they're out of prison, then how do you identify them without doing a 4473 and a NICS check, which is the topic of this thread in the first place. If they are "safe" enough to be out of the joint, they are "safe" enough to buy a gun... Anything else is convenient fiction. Prison is not where we put people who are unsafe, it's where we put people as punishment for a past action....it's called the penal system for a reason. You do the crime, you do the time. If you're determined to go out and re-commit that crime when you get out, there is nothing that can be done to stop you as that is WAY outside the scope of the prison system. You're living in a dream world thinking that people should be 'safe' before they can get out. |
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No. It never was any of the Fed gov's business in the first place. Does that imply that you're against the 4473, or the NICS check, or both? I'm with y'all who think the 4473 is BS. It ought to be filled out at the dealer so he can use it to make the NICS call, then shredded. Maintaining that document for any historical record of sale is bullshit. |
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4473 is registration. All they need is to call in the background check. This... I would even argue against background checks though. Personally I think that if a person is deemed a danger to society they should still be in jail, not out gun shopping. If they did their time and they are out and behaving themselves then they should be entitled to all their civil rights. ETA: And before anyone uses the overcrowded jails argument, I wanna say why are we jailing non-violent offenders? That is what those bracelets are for. Let them keep their jobs and punish them in other ways. Martha Stewart did NOT need to waste valuable prison space. A background check prevents those who are not US citizens from enjoying our 2nd amendment. |
