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AR15.COM
12/8/2006 10:16:29 AM EDT
I need to find a car/SUV that drives well on pavement and does well if driving over a small patch of ice.

What's the difference or what's better, 4WD or AWD.  Or just get 2WD.
12/8/2006 10:28:02 AM EDT
[#1]
4WD usually refers to a selectable system where you can choose to put it in 4WD in low traction situations, but normally drive in 2WD.

AWD usually refers to a system where all 4 wheels are powered all the time.

For the scenario you describe, random icy patches on pavement, an AWD with some sort of electronic traction control would be the best IMHO.
12/8/2006 10:31:31 AM EDT
[#2]
Go here for a full explanation of 4WD, AWD, etc.


CMOS
12/8/2006 10:33:11 AM EDT
[#3]
IMHO, and that is from owning one, the best AWD setup for limited traction is the Audi quattro IV.  This system has a Torsen (TORque SENsing) center differential with the ABS functioning as the lateral, axle based "limited slip".

In this system, slip is not necessary for torque redistribution unlike viscous limited slip differentials (Subaru, Jeep etc).
12/8/2006 10:38:57 AM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
IMHO, and that is from owning one, the best AWD setup for limited traction is the Audi quattro IV.  This system has a Torsen (TORque SENsing) center differential with the ABS functioning as the lateral, axle based "limited slip".

In this system, slip is not necessary for torque redistribution unlike viscous limited slip differentials (Subaru, Jeep etc).
The Audi Quattro system is a mechanical marvel. I remember the absolute domination by the Audi Quattros in TransAm, and then IMSA GTO. Stupefying performance.
12/8/2006 10:39:29 AM EDT
[#5]
WeiseGuy summed it up pretty well.  For what you're looking at I would strongly suggest a Subaru or an Audi.  My personal preference goes to Audi.  My family has owned 3 of them and they are great in winter and wet weather.  The new engines they have available are amazing so you can find an engine that also suits your needs.
12/8/2006 1:06:58 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:
4WD usually refers to a selectable system where you can choose to put it in 4WD in low traction situations, but normally drive in 2WD.

AWD usually refers to a system where all 4 wheels are powered all the time.

For the scenario you describe, random icy patches on pavement, an AWD with some sort of electronic traction control would be the best IMHO.


Cool, I'll look for a vehicle that has AWD.
12/8/2006 1:36:53 PM EDT
[#7]
I LMAO at a neighor with a 4WD Durango last year after a heavy snowstorn-he was spinning out the LF and RR tires while the RF and LR tires were at a dead standstill.
12/8/2006 1:38:15 PM EDT
[#8]
4 wheel drive just allows you to get stuck in worse places
12/8/2006 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#9]
4WD rocks in the snow. 2WD...notso much.
12/8/2006 1:44:18 PM EDT
[#10]
I have a Jeep Cherokee, a Honda CR-V, and a BMW 330xi (sedan).

The Jeep is selective 4WD, you have to engage a transfer case to have 4WD.  It is a system you should not drive on dry pavement.  It should be wet, snowy, icy or off road.

The CR-V is called by Honda "Real time 4WD".  Normally it is front wheel drive.  When there is tire slippage the rear wheel drive activates.  It is 4WD only when there is loss of traction by the front wheel.  If I step into it at a stop light I might get a slight "churp" of the front wheels spinning, before the rear wheel drive engages and it takes off.

The BMW sedan is AWD.  It has power to all wheels all the time.  It has a traction control system.  It is a mid-sized sedan with a 255 hp engine.  It scoots along very well!  No matter how hard I step into it, there is no hint of wheel spin.  THe car just launches!  I have driven VERY aggressively on very wet curvy streets, and you would think the tires had velcro on them!

AWD or something like the system in the CR-V would work for you.

How much do you want to spend, and do you want an SUV or a sedan or wagon?

I am 52 years old, I have lived in the mid-west most of my life.  Never much snow that stays very long.  I have owned a number of Cherokees, one front wheel drive vehicle, a Voyager AWD, the CR-V, and I just bought the BMW.  A CR-V will cost you about $25k, a BMW like mine will cost you about $44k.

Sounds like AWD is what will work for you if you are not looking for an off road vehicle.  The price range will probably be a low of $18K to high of $60K.

Price range is the next decision!
12/8/2006 1:46:43 PM EDT
[#11]
haven't driven my wrx in snow but its great in the rain.

only vehicle i've driven in snow is a toyota rav-4 and it did fine on all seasons.
12/8/2006 2:11:45 PM EDT
[#12]
basicly it boils down to this.

if you need clearence for snow, or other stuff, then you need a truck. which as far as i know right now only comes in 4WD. works great, but as mentioned before, you don't want to drive on dry pavement with it. which sucks, as there can be black ice.

that being said, my Ford has 4WD and a limited slip differential, which may help a little with that. so there's another option.

an AWD car will work GREAT if you don't hae 18 inches of snow. and you can still get good gas milage from most AWD cars.

12/8/2006 2:12:41 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
4WD usually refers to a selectable system where you can choose to put it in 4WD in low traction situations, but normally drive in 2WD.

AWD usually refers to a system where all 4 wheels are powered all the time.

For the scenario you describe, random icy patches on pavement, an AWD with some sort of electronic traction control would be the best IMHO.


Cool, I'll look for a vehicle that has AWD.


The V8 4WD 4-Runners are AWD... I love mine to death.
12/8/2006 2:22:11 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a Jeep Wrangler and I love it but honestly for driving around icy streets I'd rather just drive a front wheel drive car.  Going around a slick corner, 4WD helps not at all.  
12/8/2006 2:23:45 PM EDT
[#15]
My Jeep Grand Cherokke has 'Quadra-Trac' 4WD

It gets such excellent traction in ice / snow that I am simply amazed. I have had this rig for 13yrs so it has seen some snow & ice. I have tried ( in a safe area ) to make it lose traction / slide / spin out and it is pretty hard even when you are trying to force it to lose traction.

Jeep gets a BIG thumbs up from me.
12/8/2006 2:33:57 PM EDT
[#16]
So these days on the part-time 4WD, do you have an override by hand if the automatic hubs don't engage for some reason?

12/8/2006 2:39:11 PM EDT
[#17]
My WRX does really well in the snow.  Small patches of ice are no problem, but the laws of physics apply to all cars, AWD, FWD, 4WD, RWD or whatever, so you can still find a telephone pole if you're trying hard enough.

As a side note, I've been really happy with how the car has handled modifications.  I'm making almost 300hp at the wheels and it's just as driveable as it was stock.
12/16/2006 6:29:52 AM EDT
[#18]
The wife and I are leaning towards the CR-V for the reasons stated above.

Thanks everyone, for your knowledge and wisdom.

Is there anything that ARFCOM don't know?
12/16/2006 6:36:32 AM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

if you need clearence for snow, or other stuff, then you need a truck. which as far as i know right now only comes in 4WD. works great, but as mentioned before, you don't want to drive on dry pavement with it. which sucks, as there can be black ice.




Don't all new trucks have AUTO 4WD now? My Z71 does and that's what I'd use in the case of potential black ice.