[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 7 Trillion???? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/25/2008 8:44:29 AM EDT
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Now lets play with some numbers...
If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... |
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1 Trillion = 1,000,000,000,000
1 year = 31,557,600 seconds 100 years = 3,155,760,000 seconds 1,000 years = 31,557,600,000 seconds 7 Trillion seconds ago = 220,822 years ago 
Whoa, that's a buttload of money... this hurts more than thinking about Reese being John Connor's dad... 
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... That is not the bailout amount. The bailout amount of 700 bil. is 2300 or so for every man woman and child. |
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That is not the bailout amount. The bailout amount of 700 bil. is 2300 or so for every man woman and child. You are counting 1 bailout as "the bailout" and ignoring all the other bailouts. An "new" bailout is already in the works: Fed announces new ($800B) U.S. mortgage-support program This was the total before the "new" bailout: Fed Pledges Top $7.4 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit Congrads! |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... That is not the bailout amount. The bailout amount of 700 bil. is 2300 or so for every man woman and child. Fed throws fresh lifeline to financial system http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE4AO4QY20081125?sp=true That is ANOTHER 800billion on top of the 700... Thats just for starters... Our $7.4 Trillion Bailout http://clusterstock.alleyinsider.com/2008/11/our-7-4-trillion-bailou * $2.4 trillion in commercial paper purchases by the Fed. * $2 trillion in other loans and pledges from the Fed. * $1.4 trillion in rescue committments, including higher deposits insurance. Bloomberg explains: "The FDIC, chaired by Sheila Bair, is contributing 20 percent of total rescue commitments. The FDIC’s $1.4 trillion in guarantees will amount to a bank subsidy of as much as $54 billion over three years, or $18 billion a year, because borrowers will pay a lower interest rate than they would on the open market, according to Raghu Sundurum and Viral Acharya of New York University and the London Business School." * $892 billion for the Treasury's TARP and other Hank Paulson rescues. * $300 billion from FHA to guarantee mortgages through the Hope for Homeowners program, designed to keep distressed borrowers from foreclosure. * $444 billion bailout bucks for Sheila Bair's mortgage program. Bloomberg: "Not included in the calculation of pledged funds is an FDIC proposal to prevent foreclosures by guaranteeing modifications on $444 billion in mortgages at an expected cost of $24.4 billion to be paid from the TARP, according to FDIC spokesman David Barr. The Treasury Department hasn’t approved the program." So with the housing modification plan, that's $7.8 trillion. Does anyone believe that it is even possible to calculate your expected return on a $7.8 trillion investment? Of course it's not. That is several times the total profits of the entire economy. Think about it this way: banks have to make all that money just to pay us back. Do you really think that's going to happen? |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... Only they won't use it for bills. In AR15.COM fashion, 29% would buy a Cult, 32% would buy an LMT, 11% would buy 2 Bushmasters and 10% would buy ammo. 17% would lose it in day trading (or titty bar)and the remaining 1% would pay off their GF's credit card. |
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Maybe someone could explain this to me... If congress approved a $700 bailout/stimulus/whatever package, how are they dishing out exponentially more tax payer money? I honestly don't know...I'm a geek not an economist. They're moving so fast in so many way's it's hard to keep track of it all. Before the $700B "TARP", There was the Original Freddie/Fannie bailout(approximately the size of the TARP)... and the Federal Reserve has been making it's own massive bailouts almost daily... Some actions are more like insurance (ie insuring money market funds, commercial paper market) Then you've got the FDIC making huge payouts due to bank failures. Check out that $7T article I posted... it's got more details I'm probably missing several |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... That's just it, they are playing with numbers, there is no money. Every dollar they promise deflates your net value. Makes you smaller, and Gov't bigger. |
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At some point, we should begin comparing these monetary amounts with the number of grains of sand on the beach, or maybe stars in the sky.
"The debt US tax payers are being held accountable for is equal to the number of grains of sand on the east coast of the US." "The debt US tax payers are being held accountable for is equal to the number of stars in 10 degrees of the night sky as seen from Washington." |
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You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... Keep in mind... this isn't really about helping ordinary people (vid) This is again a case of privatizing the gains and socializing the losses; a bailout and socialism for the rich, the well-connected and Wall Street
Prof. Roubini |
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Maybe someone could explain this to me... If congress approved a $700 bailout/stimulus/whatever package, how are they dishing out exponentially more tax payer money? I honestly don't know...I'm a geek not an economist. They're moving so fast in so many way's it's hard to keep track of it all. Before the $700B "TARP", There was the Original Freddie/Fannie bailout(approximately the size of the TARP)... and the Federal Reserve has been making it's own massive bailouts almost daily... Some actions are more like insurance (ie insuring money market funds, commercial paper market) Then you've got the FDIC making huge payouts due to bank failures. Check out that $7T article I posted... it's got more details I'm probably missing several So is congress still voting on each individual bailout? If so, I hadn't heard of any that I could have voiced my opinion to my representatives over. It's starting to seem like they're handing out money like kids in a candy store. |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... If you give everybody over 18 30grand then suddenly 30 grand isn't shit....because everybody's got it. That sir, is when our dollar turns to toilet paper. Not everybody will save and pay bills with it. Guaranteed that 80% of the people go buy a $30,000 car with it. |
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So is congress still voting on each individual bailout? If so, I hadn't heard of any that I could have voiced my opinion to my representatives over. It's starting to seem like they're handing out money like kids in a candy store. Congress is voting on some of it... But the Federal Reserve doesn't really have any oversight... the Fed started the year with a $1 trillion balance sheet... and they can make all the new money they want... "I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
-Thomas Jefferson |
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[So is congress still voting on each individual bailout? If so, I hadn't heard of any that I could have voiced my opinion to my representatives over. It's starting to seem like they're handing out money like kids in a candy store. This article is from 2 weeks ago when the tab was only estimated at $5 trillion... it has an extensive breakdown |
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That is not the bailout amount. The bailout amount of 700 bil. is 2300 or so for every man woman and child. You are counting 1 bailout as "the bailout" and ignoring all the other bailouts. An "new" bailout is already in the works: Fed announces new ($800B) U.S. mortgage-support program This was the total before the "new" bailout: Fed Pledges Top $7.4 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit Congrads! Wasn't the original 700 bil. given gratis with no expectation to be payed back? Isn't the new 7 tril figure "loans" (albiet without collateral) that are to be payed back? That being said, i don't expect it to be. Maybe all moot anyway. The .gov has lied to, cheated and stole from us and I have no faith in them "solving" this crisis. I see a storm brewing that will be worse than any ever seen. You sarcasm is noted. 
Edited for sp. and content |
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening.
The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format |
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Wasn't the original 700 bil. given gratis with no expectation to be payed back? Isn't the new 7 tril figure "loans" (albiet without collateral) that are to be payed back? That being said, i don't expect it to be. Maybe all moot anyway. The .gov has lied to, cheated and stole from us and I have no faith in them "solving" this crisis. I see a storm brewing that will be worse than any ever seen. At the time the $700B TARP was passed, the Dems were saying how it was a "long term investment" and would eventually pay itself back with interest... "just like the S&L bailout in the 1980s"... Problem with their arguement being that the mortgage backed securities are actually worth about ten cents on the dollar... and the S&L bailout is widely know to have cost taxpayers over $100B (FWIW I heard it straight from the Senate Banking committee folks that the S&L bailout was actually $800B.) These folks have no shame... they are bald faced liars... we are being robbed. |
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening. The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format I'm just another brick in the wall. My "understanding" it will not help my future or my children's. The so called "expert's" and leaders of our country can't seem to agree on "understanding" it. We will all have to live with the consequences of being sold down the river. |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... Only they won't use it for bills. In AR15.COM fashion, 29% would buy a Cult, 32% would buy an LMT, 11% would buy 2 Bushmasters and 10% would buy ammo. 17% would lose it in day trading (or titty bar)and the remaining 1% would pay off their GF's credit card. All of which would stimulate the economy as needed. This is not a bailout, its a sellout. |
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Quoted: According to various accounts I've seen in the last couple of days, 7.5 trillion is ONE HALF of the annual U.S. Gross Domestic Product (maybe more, should it decline). And they're just getting started. We are surely fooked. BEFORE the election, all this talk was about $700 Billion. BEFORE the election, Bush asked for $700 Billion. BEFORE the election, Congress debated and voted for $700 Billion. This is the point that needs to be hammered home for the next two years: President Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will oversee the burning of $7 TRILLION of OUR money!! HALF of our entire nation's GDP will be BURNED in this bailout of bad companies and funding of failed CEOs! Obama and the Democrats will be the ones in charge doing the biggest bait-and-switch con-game in the history of the country!! Before the election, Obama and the Democrats said it was going to be $700 Billion - now it's suddenly $7 TRILLION!? Remember Obama "leading" that meeting with Bush, McCain, Pelosi & Reid talking about the $700 Billion bailout? Who ever said anything about $7 TRILLION!?? Remember Pelosi standing on the House floor right before the vote blaming REPUBLICANS for not wanting to spend that much money that fast with virtually NO accountability!? What do we have now? No accounting for hundreds of billions already spent by the Federal Reserve, and a massive EXPLOSION of spending FAR beyond that original $700 Billion that Obama and the Democrats debated over BEFORE the election. Why did they wait till right AFTER the election to jack it up to $7 Trillion!? Well we all know the answer to that.    |
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening. The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format I'm just another brick in the wall. My "understanding" it will not help my future or my children's. The so called "expert's" and leaders of our country can't seem to agree on "understanding" it. We will all have to live with the consequences of being sold down the river. The most important part is knowing who to blame... cutting off the branch of a tree will do nothing in the long term. To get rid of a tree you have to go to the root. Keep in mind that most intelligent folks with power prefer to operate in the shadows... But they do meet up once a year |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... Only they won't use it for bills. In AR15.COM fashion, 29% would buy a Cult, 32% would buy an LMT, 11% would buy 2 Bushmasters and 10% would buy ammo. 17% would lose it in day trading (or titty bar)and the remaining 1% would pay off their GF's credit card. You forgot the 5% who would loan it to a stripper, or neighbor. |
| Storm clouds on the horizon and the Emporer has no clothes. |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... The VAST majority of that money is guarantee/insurance type deals... meaning it will only come close to $7T actually spent if all those assets somehow magically become worth 0, and we will have much worse things to worry about. Like the citigroup deal, that counts it as a $300b "bailout" even though $25b was actual bailout, the rest was insurance. |
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening. The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format I'm just another brick in the wall. My "understanding" it will not help my future or my children's. The so called "expert's" and leaders of our country can't seem to agree on "understanding" it. We will all have to live with the consequences of being sold down the river. The most important part is knowing who to blame... cutting off the branch of a tree will do nothing in the long term. To get rid of a tree you have to go to the root. Keep in mind that most intelligent folks with power prefer to operate in the shadows... But they do meet up once a year I recall an article about them some time back. The consensus was that the world economy was coming in on a wing and a prayer with no one at the controls. That article was premature, but I believe it applies now. |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... Nice idea but we need to stop handing out money. |
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This country has over $11 trillion of known debt.
According to a Congressman who was on Glenn Beck this country is running on three sets of books. The one that we hear about.As much as $15 Trillion The 2nd that the House and Senat see.($ 18-46 trillion) The 3rd that was secret. ($47- 75 Trillion dollars) |
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Now lets play with some numbers... If that is 7 trillion... and the over 18 population of the US is 229million.... That is $30567.69 for every person over 18 You want to stimulate the economy? Give the money to the people and let them pay some bills... NO.... Stupidest idea ever... Fortunately, the Federal Reserve (responsible for all but 1TN of that - eg the money is NOT coming from the US government) does NOT lend to individuals... P.S. If you kept a running total of all the loans the FED made over the past 10 years you'd probably be screaming 50 trillion or whatever.... It's kind of comical, actually - the 'total' numbers people are throwing around, mostly FED loans, almost none of it ACTUAL US Government money... |
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Maybe someone could explain this to me... If congress approved a $700 bailout/stimulus/whatever package, how are they dishing out exponentially more tax payer money? I honestly don't know...I'm a geek not an economist. Because it's NOT FUCKING TAXPAYER MONEY... It's Federal Reserve money... 
Some folks apparently can't wrap their heads around the difference...
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening. The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format I'm just another brick in the wall. My "understanding" it will not help my future or my children's. The so called "expert's" and leaders of our country can't seem to agree on "understanding" it. We will all have to live with the consequences of being sold down the river. The most important part is knowing who to blame... cutting off the branch of a tree will do nothing in the long term. To get rid of a tree you have to go to the root. Keep in mind that most intelligent folks with power prefer to operate in the shadows... But they do meet up once a year And YOU think it's funny that I place the FED under the 'Coin Money' clause of the Constitution... I'm not the conspiracy kook here... As has been said before, you would NOT want to see the US money supply right now if the FED had NOT made those loans.... |
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This country has over $11 trillion of known debt. According to a Congressman who was on Glenn Beck this country is running on three sets of books. The one that we hear about.As much as $15 Trillion The 2nd that the House and Senat see.($ 18-46 trillion) The 3rd that was secret. ($47- 75 Trillion dollars) Like the debt the GAO Comptroller David Walker was talking about in January Before all the latest boondoggles. |
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Maybe someone could explain this to me... If congress approved a $700 bailout/stimulus/whatever package, how are they dishing out exponentially more tax payer money? I honestly don't know...I'm a geek not an economist. Because it's NOT FUCKING TAXPAYER MONEY... It's Federal Reserve money...
Some folks apparently can't wrap their heads around the difference... I'm not a gonetocollegeist, so then this makes it better being Fed money? |
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Read The Case Against the Fed to understand why all this is happening. The Creature from Jekyll Island basically tells the same story in a less academic format I'm just another brick in the wall. My "understanding" it will not help my future or my children's. The so called "expert's" and leaders of our country can't seem to agree on "understanding" it. We will all have to live with the consequences of being sold down the river. The most important part is knowing who to blame... cutting off the branch of a tree will do nothing in the long term. To get rid of a tree you have to go to the root. Keep in mind that most intelligent folks with power prefer to operate in the shadows... But they do meet up once a year And YOU think it's funny that I place the FED under the 'Coin Money' clause of the Constitution... I'm not the conspiracy kook here... As has been said before, you would NOT want to see the US money supply right now if the FED had NOT made those loans.... Slave_A... err ... Dave_A you admitted yourself in the past that these folks exist... They're on CNN... so it has to be true  ... it's no theory that they exist ...the only theories are exactly what they are up to.
for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project
-James Madison Federalist Paper #10 Only a dishonest person would say that the constitution allowed for paper money... and only a kook would say that you can "coin" paper money |
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Maybe someone could explain this to me... If congress approved a $700 bailout/stimulus/whatever package, how are they dishing out exponentially more tax payer money? I honestly don't know...I'm a geek not an economist. Because it's NOT FUCKING TAXPAYER MONEY... It's Federal Reserve money...
Some folks apparently can't wrap their heads around the difference... I'm not a gonetocollegeist, so then this makes it better being Fed money? It makes it a lot more difficult to understand exactly how you're getting shafted. It doesn't change the fact that you are... |
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He explains the "bailout" scam around the 50 minute mark. This audio was recorded in '94. 
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Coincidence that the treasury secretary and these bankers were meeting at Bilderberg 2008?:
Bernanke, Ben S. Chairman, Board of Governors, Federal Reserve System Geithner, Timothy F. President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of New York McDonough, William J. Vice Chairman and Special Advisor to the Chairman, Merrill Lynch & Co., Inc. McKillop, Tom Chairman, The Royal Bank of Scotland Group Rockefeller, David Former Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank Zoellick, Robert B. President, The World Bank Group Ackermann, Josef Chairman of the Management Board and the Group Executive Committee, Deutsche Bank AG |
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You aint seen nothin yet , this party is just getting starting.
According to various accounts I've seen in the last couple of days, 7.5 trillion is ONE HALF of the annual U.S. Gross Domestic Product (maybe more, should it decline). And they're just getting started.
We are surely fooked. 
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Because it's NOT FUCKING TAXPAYER MONEY... It's Federal Reserve money...
Some folks apparently can't wrap their heads around the difference... Where does the Federal Reserve (i.e. "the banks") get this money from? a) the public (i.e. taxpayers). b) the gov't (i.e. taxpayers). |