Posted: 2/25/2003 9:19:41 AM EDT
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My best friend has joined up with the AF, and will be leaving for basic training on April 29th or so. Anyway, he has very little experience with an AR type weapon, so I'd like to teach him some basics. The question is...what kind of rifle will he be training with? M16A2? A1? I need to know so I can prepare him a little better. [Edit] Please no cracks about his choice of service. He's doing this to serve his country and better himself. |
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Best thing to prepare him is have him call several hotels and make reservations. That is easy. The tough part is to get the hotels to bill everything to the basic tab to cover any audits. That seperates the average air force guy from the studs. That and bitch about anything under 3 stars. Oh, have him repeat this mantra, "Ground pounders are too stupid to get in" about 10 times a day. He will be set! I am just bringing heat on myself today. |
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He will probably be trained with the M16A1 in basic with a .22 caliber adapter, they only learn basic firearms handling and gun safety and they only spend one day at the range total, later if he gets stationed overseas, he will get to qualify with the M16a2 with .223 ammo, unless your AFSC [MOS] is combat arms related the AF spends very little time training with a M16, your friend just needs to learn how to shoot from the 3 basic shooting postions, standing, kneeling, prone. Very easy stuff! |
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"Wow" a whole lot of responses from people talking out their A$$'s again... maybe you guy's should go do some AF PT with "Tommy Trauma ". You shoot an A2 at AF basic with REAL 556 ammo and qualification varies on actual AFSC when on active duty . Where in the world your stationed makes no difference... The AF quit using 22 adapters at basic way back in late 1987... |
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I was there in '79. The A1 that I had to qualify with had the .22 adaptor and shot long rifle solids. It failed to fire several times. When I got to my permanent assignment in New Mexico we shot the same rig. I never fired a .223 while in the Air Force. At that time the only personel that qualified with the .223 round was SPs and personel going over seas. In basic we had one day at the range learning dry fire and the next day we live fire and obstacle course. It was very easy. If you want the easiest basic training and duty, join the Air Force. Unless you go into the elite rescue division you will only fire a rifle once a year to qualify or once every two years if you shoot expert. Sylvan is exagerating about the accomodations. They are pretty comfortable but thats what you get in a situation that is tied to a runway type operation. It would be pointless to have Air Force personell make long marches and dig foxholes like those that fight a land acquisition strategy. My job was to weld up aircraft parst that had broken or needed fabricating. I doubt that I would get very far trying to "hump" a Miller Trail Blazer across a desert or jungle. Each branch of the service is valuable to the defense of this country and has it's special function. To compare Marines or Army ground forces to Air Force maintenance personal is assenine. "I can run 20 miles with a 90# pack and rifle". Yeah thats great, but how would repair the after burner on an F-15? No answer? Stick with what you know. |
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Quoted: I was there in '79. The A1 that I had to qualify with had the .22 adaptor and shot long rifle solids. It failed to fire several times. When I got to my permanent assignment in New Mexico we shot the same rig. I never fired a .223 while in the Air Force. At that time the only personel that qualified with the .223 round was SPs and personel going over seas. In basic we had one day at the range learning dry fire and the next day we live fire and obstacle course. It was very easy. If you want the easiest basic training and duty, join the Air Force. Unless you go into the elite rescue division you will only fire a rifle once a year to qualify or once every two years if you shoot expert. Sylvan is exagerating about the accomodations. They are pretty comfortable but thats what you get in a situation that is tied to a runway type operation. It would be pointless to have Air Force personell make long marches and dig foxholes like those that fight a land acquisition strategy. My job was to weld up aircraft parst that had broken or needed fabricating. I doubt that I would get very far trying to "hump" a Miller Trail Blazer across a desert or jungle. Each branch of the service is valuable to the defense of this country and has it's special function. To compare Marines or Army ground forces to Air Force maintenance personal is assenine. "I can run 20 miles with a 90# pack and rifle". Yeah thats great, but how would repair the after burner on an F-15? No answer? Stick with what you know. There ya go talking out of your ass again [:D] And I wasn't exagerating. Ok, maybe a little |
| I went through within the last 2 years and you only handle an actual M-16A2 one day. The weapons qual is part of the FTX portion of Warrior Week (week 5 of 6). There is a classroom portion of training that lasts approx 2 hours. After the classroom, they cross the street to the range and fire .223 at 25 meter distance compensated targets. There was no one that didn't qualify. You sight in and shoot 10 rounds prone supported, 10 prone unsupported, 10 kneeling, and 10 standing (shooting as if from behind a barracade). This 40 round rotation is done twice. All rounds 10 round strings are timed and magazine changes are involved. If you have any questions regarding Air Force Basic training, e-mail me. |
| As a former active duty army grunt and now a skycop in the Air Guard my advice is don't do shit. Anything you try to teach him will have to be undone and retaught at basic. You can't teach him to be an expert on anything in this short of time and it will teach him preconceived notions that he know something and it will backfire on him when he gets there. My advice is if you teach him anything just familarize him with it so he doesn't look like a complete assclown, i.e. breakdown, controls about sight picture, etc. Maybe take him to the range so he can see that the AR has almost no recoil and the rifle isn't something to be scared of. Other than that I would leave it alone. Just my 2 cents. |
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I know plenty of MARINES who can fix an afterburner on an F-18 and hump a 90lb pack and rifle if need be. Besides, fixing an afterburner is not hard at all. Turkey feathers, fuel, fuel supply controls. Pretty basic. [x] Quoted: Each branch of the service is valuable to the defense of this country and has it's special function. To compare Marines or Army ground forces to Air Force maintenance personal is assenine. "I can run 20 miles with a 90# pack and rifle". Yeah thats great, but how would repair the after burner on an F-15? No answer? Stick with what you know. |
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Well my glue sniffing friends, nobody asked if a marine could fix breakfast or a jet engine, if an army puke could run with his house on his back like a turtle for 20 miles. This guy asked if he should teach a guy shooting basics before BMT. The answer to that is no, a little familiarization is good. Take him shooting, the AR/M16 is an easy rifle to learn, thats why the army/marines use it. We are all happy the marines found a guy from the navy to teach them how to fix F-18's and the army can haul helicopter engines on their backs up hill and under fire but that is irrelavant to this thread. |
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Never saw one firearm during basic. Once assigned to my particular unit it was M-16's with a .22 cal adaptor to qualify. Always jamming and just felt pathetic to do something like that to a good firearm. Being in a mobile "tactical" unit though we also qualified with the M-60, M-203, 9mm, and .38cal. |
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During BT he will have one (1) day of firearms training with the M16-A2. It will be about 8 hours, 2 of which are on the range. You need to hit "in the black" with 15 out of 40 shots at 25 meters to qualify. You wont use burst fire, only semi auto. Edit: Yes you use actual 5.56 M855 rounds not .22. Qualification does NOT depend on your AFSC (job). I was in basic last April so this is first hand info. |
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Poster by CerebralAssassin:You need to hit "in the black" with 15 out of 40 shots at 25 meters to qualify. You wont use burst fire, only semi auto. First let me say, Cerebral should know what he's talking about here. If that is the case, then I wouldn't worry about your buddy. He could do this throwing rocks. |
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Quoted: First let me say, Cerebral should know what he's talking about here. If that is the case, then I wouldn't worry about your buddy. He could do this throwing rocks. You'd be surprised, TJ. 2/3 of the new recruits that came to the unit for their first drill this weekend (pre-basic) couldn't hit shit. One sarge and myself-at his 'request' (even though i haven't been to basic, i shoot a lot of competition) ran em through an indoor range and some gave them some of the basics on breakdown, sight picture, the works. It took almost two full days to get a few of them to figure out the firearms, and some of these kids would still have been hard-pressed to qualify with a 15 out of 40. ...we're talking about a large number of kids that have never held rifles before. |
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Eh most people qualify. In fact out of the 40 or so people in my BMT flight everyone qualified. The instructors (civilians by the way) do a damn good job teaching the fundamentals. Plus the qual targets are pretty easy. Its spilt into two sides, each with 4 targets that I guess are supposed to roughly approximate a head and shoulders at different ranges. The smallest one is prolly about 5 inches tall by 3 inhes wide. The biggest is prolly about a foot wide and 8 inches tall. You fire 5 shots into each target so you only have to hit the 2 biggest targets and one of the smaller ones 5 times each to pass. |
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key word is "distance compensated" he wont need to know jack about 5.56 trajectory or sight manipulation. i once went with my buddy who is an AF "combat arms" tech in the airguard. i arrived at the range a little late and began to watch. after seeing someone shoot a 10rd string into what i thought was a BZO target i said "hey he should have his BZO by now, whats he doing" my friend shot me a crooked smile and said "he's qualifying" not to hijack the thread but i would say dont show him anything beyond how to break it down. show him how to clean it and maybe proper sight alignment/sight picture and thats it. hopefully his 8 hour exposure to the weapon will make him pursue black rifles as a hobby outside the AF. |
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It was 89 when I went through, and here's what applied then. I doubt it has changed too much. In basic, a couple hours classroom that covers basic safety and how to open the action, followed by a little time at short range. Note that those 40 shots do NOT all have to be in the black. You have put more than 30 or 35 in the black to qualify, all 40 in the black gets you an expert marksman ribbon. You do NOT clean the weapons and are not allowed to clear your own jams. Cleaning was handled en masse by seperate work details. I got assigned to one and 5 of us spent a day cleaning several hundred M16s. We did them in assembly line fashion with one guy opening the actions and removing the bolts, one guy swabbing the bolts while a couple of guys cleaned the bolt carriers and a guy oiling the bolt carriers and putting them back in the actions and closing them up. You will be required to requalify before going to any non-CONUS base, or if you are assigned to any sort of mobility unit. When requalifying, the accuracy standards are the same but more time is spent on the internals, you actually pull apart and oil the weapon you'll be qualifying with, and you have to clean it yourself after you finish qualifying. People in certain AFSCs (police, combat controllers, etc.) spend a lot more time learning how to shoot, of course. |