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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:31:24 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is there will lots of $200 checks being sent. I've been expecting them to make this one a freebie. Register your AR pistol or 80% build for free if you want to stay within the letter of the law. Literally hundreds of thousands of people will jump on this if it's not costing them anything. Gov. isn't concerned with the tax stamp money, they can just print that. They want all of your guns registered and this is a big step towards that. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:32:47 PM EST
[#2]
They're just going to change their minds in a few years, so compliance now will be for naught.
No point in paying attention to them, at least for me. Also, eat a dick AFT |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:33:22 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you take off the brace, the weight, barrel length, sights and other add-ons can still make it a "rifle". False. Without a brace the rest of the document means nothing. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:33:53 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just take off the braces and run pistol buffer tubes. Not sure if that would be enough. Remember that is the BATF. My guess is that *if* this actually comes to pass, and *if* you own the brace, and a firearm that can "readily" accept it (as is the case if you just remove the brace and leave the buffer tube mount), you can be busted for "constructive intent" if BATF decides they want you. Making that charge stick is none of their concern -- putting you through the process grinder is more than enough to ruin most men. "Fear will keep the local systems in line", as the Empire says. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:40:15 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if that would be enough. Remember that is the BATF. My guess is that *if* this actually comes to pass, and *if* you own the brace, and a firearm that can "readily" accept it (as is the case if you just remove the brace and leave the buffer tube mount), you can be busted for "constructive intent" if BATF decides they want you. Making that charge stick is none of their concern -- putting you through the process grinder is more than enough to ruin most men. they already stated that just bare rifle tubes are fine. even on the worksheet they have a bare rifle tube as being acceptable. you are right about the whole thing with them trying to put you through a wringer over stuff, but the argument of "I just removed the brace to be legal and threw the brace in a closet" holds water considering they just decided to reclassify things. The intent part of it works both ways as well Situation: ATF kicks door in, shoots dog, finds AR pistol with rifle buffer tube and SBA3 in the closet ATF: you have a rifle buffer tube and a brace so your intent is to use the brace law abiding citizen: I had a brace when it was legal and took it off with the intent to obey the law |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:40:30 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the penalty for a fake tax stamp? Is it similar to having a fake Vax card? 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine, seizure of the firearm |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:45:47 PM EST
[#7]
FATF rules are getting to be tax code level stupid.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:45:53 PM EST
[#8]
I'm certainly not in favor of the brace change but I think it does what it claims to do.
I t will be much harder to have an SBR that is legally a pistol. It will still be easy to have an AR pistol and quite possible to have a braced pistol if you follow their rules. If you believe they won't follow their own rules then it makes little difference what the rules are. We're one senator away from this rule meaning nothing. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:46:41 PM EST
[#9]
How long until someone makes a buffer tube that is fat enough to shoulder?
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:47:47 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long until someone makes a buffer tube that is fat enough to shoulder? You can shoulder it now. It just sucks. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:49:01 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can shoulder it now. It just sucks. I mean, that would just be a coincidence that it's easier to shoulder. I'm sure fat buffer tubes have all kinds of other technical advantages. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:51:22 PM EST
[#12]
Shit like this is why the SCOTUS needs to gut Chevron deference. A government agency should not be allowed to unilaterally promulgate rules that have criminal or civil penalties and enforce the rules. It’s the definition of a self licking ice cream cone.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:53:19 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, that would just be a coincidence that it's easier to shoulder. I'm sure fat buffer tubes have all kinds of other technical advantages. Yep, I hope Shockwave makes a buffer tube that just happens to be shaped like one of their braces, but it's one piece. That would be swell. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:53:29 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they already stated that just bare rifle tubes are fine. even on the worksheet they have a bare rifle tube as being acceptable. you are right about the whole thing with them trying to put you through a wringer over stuff, but the argument of "I just removed the brace to be legal and threw the brace in a closet" holds water considering they just decided to reclassify things. The intent part of it works both ways as well Situation: ATF kicks door in, shoots dog, finds AR pistol with rifle buffer tube and SBA3 in the closet ATF: you have a rifle buffer tube and a brace so your intent is to use the brace law abiding citizen: I had a brace when it was legal and took it off with the intent to obey the law I understand your argument and indeed that is the way a logical person would read it. However, recent events prevent me from putting trust in the BATF making decisions logically in these matters, even though it makes sense and is the way it SHOULD be in a land that is under the "Rule of Law". |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:56:12 PM EST
[#15]
The king giveth, the king taketh.
I’m kinda stuck in no man’s land. If I were to build an other, I would have to destroy it if they change the brace rules? We can’t SBR stuff here. Shit is so stupid. How do we get normies to understand that criminals don’t care about the law? These laws do nothing. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:57:40 PM EST
[#16]
Fuck the ATF. Everyone should just do whatever they like.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:57:54 PM EST
[#17]
I imagine if they rule the braces illegal without a stamp you have to remove more than the brace. You'll have to install a tube that wont accept a brace.
That is if they dont redefine a buffer tube as acceptable. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 12:59:46 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck the ATF. Everyone should just do whatever they like. Yep |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:01:17 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: eForms and the promised quick turn around takes away the long wait excuse against NFA. Coincidence? Ayup. They have been working on this since at-least as far back as mid 2020.. seems as though they were lining their ducks up. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:02:32 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FIFY Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who is going to be the first to market a FIFY  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:02:55 PM EST
[#21]
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:05:29 PM EST
[#22]
First I've heard of this.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:08:22 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A couple of sporting shotgun models that were initially legal OTC purchases transmogrified into Class 3 destructive devices in the same manner. Most owners had no idea. Yep. When I was at Barrett, one year we were supposed to be getting USAS-12 shotguns as Christmas bonuses. The ruling came out just before Ronnie was going to trade a few M82A1's for the shotguns. The ruling on DD's really fucked that up. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:08:41 PM EST
[#24]
Sounds like 80% sales are going to skyrocket between now and June.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:10:41 PM EST
[#25]
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:12:45 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The king giveth, the king taketh. I'm kinda stuck in no man's land. If I were to build an other, I would have to destroy it if they change the brace rules? We can't SBR stuff here. Shit is so stupid. How do we get normies to understand that criminals don't care about the law? These laws do nothing. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:13:45 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who is going to be the first to market a FIFY https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/463094/69C0F489-1294-4152-A8CF-FC92B1312806_jpe-2261498.JPG Yeah, yeah, how many unregistered machine guns and destructive devices do you own? |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:14:01 PM EST
[#28]
Do we have a link to something actual or is this just hearsay?
I'd like to reach out to my senator about this... |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:14:42 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you take off the brace, the weight, barrel length, sights and other add-ons can still make it a "rifle". Plus, the AFT states quite clearly in the rule that EVEN IF YOUR FIREARM PASSES THEIR LITTLE POINT SYSTEM, they can still claim it is a "rifle". The point sheet is not determinative. They can arbitrarily point to any firearm they don't like and call it a "rifle". Pretty sure there's a phrase for that... |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:15:41 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just take off the braces and run pistol buffer tubes. Some braces will still be legal. No adjustable braces though. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:15:56 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure there's a phrase for that... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you take off the brace, the weight, barrel length, sights and other add-ons can still make it a "rifle". Plus, the AFT states quite clearly in the rule that EVEN IF YOUR FIREARM PASSES THEIR LITTLE POINT SYSTEM, they can still claim it is a "rifle". The point sheet is not determinative. They can arbitrarily point to any firearm they don't like and call it a "rifle". Pretty sure there's a phrase for that... Arbitrary and capricious |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:16:23 PM EST
[#32]
What new "rules?" This pistol was legal when I bought it.
FATF |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:17:59 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: they already stated that just bare rifle tubes are fine. even on the worksheet they have a bare rifle tube as being acceptable. you are right about the whole thing with them trying to put you through a wringer over stuff, but the argument of "I just removed the brace to be legal and threw the brace in a closet" holds water considering they just decided to reclassify things. The intent part of it works both ways as well Situation: ATF kicks door in, shoots dog, finds AR pistol with rifle buffer tube and SBA3 in the closet ATF: you have a rifle buffer tube and a brace so your intent is to use the brace law abiding citizen: I had a brace when it was legal and took it off with the intent to obey the law Well the brace was reclassified as a stock, so it's a spare for the rifle sitting next to it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:18:36 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: An X95 is shorter than a 10.5" SBR (with stock fully collapsed), a lot of 16" bullpups are. Which proves how idiotic these potential rule changes are (along with being violations of our rights). Anything to make more folks into felons. Yep. It's even more idiotic when they use concealable rifles as an excuse for the ruling. The unbraced rifle caliber handgun is even smaller without the brace then with a brace on it. It would do nothing for ghetto creeps doing a drive by where they just stick it out the window of a moving car or run inside a bank or store to rob it. The purpose of the ruling is to fuck over citizens. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:20:17 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shit like this is why the SCOTUS needs to gut Chevron deference. A government agency should not be allowed to unilaterally promulgate rules that have criminal or civil penalties and enforce the rules. It’s the definition of a self licking ice cream cone. And they need to gut it with the case currently before them by saying "the right of the people...shall not be infringed" means... |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:20:31 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like 80% sales are going to skyrocket between now and June. After June, the 79% sales are going to be wild. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:21:03 PM EST
[#37]
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:21:40 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They're just going to change their minds in a few years, so compliance now will be for naught. No point in paying attention to them, at least for me. Also, eat a dick AFT Jump through hoops now, but in a few more years they ban nearly all semi-auto's that take a box type high cap magazine. Compliance is a losing gambit. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:23:55 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, yeah, how many unregistered machine guns and destructive devices do you own? I speed regularly but don't commit murder......a person can choose to ignore one law and not be required to ignore them all. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:24:08 PM EST
[#40]
Thanks for tl;dr.
I hate listening to a 10 minute video to get 45 seconds worth of information after an advertisement for a Patreon donation. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:25:14 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine, seizure of the firearm I thought it was 10/250K? Or is that just for machine guns? |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:25:14 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So starting in august I should put my brace on my MP5 SBR just to troll the do gooders at the range who will be eager to tell me it’s illegal That would be master level. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:25:26 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The king giveth, the king taketh. I’m kinda stuck in no man’s land. If I were to build an other, I would have to destroy it if they change the brace rules? We can’t SBR stuff here. Shit is so stupid. How do we get normies to understand that criminals don’t care about the law? These laws do nothing. So you're a 5th amendment case... they're effectively taking your property. |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:26:06 PM EST
[#44]
I believe over 90% of the AR owning population doesn't subscribe/ check gun forums or read posts and blurbs about what the FATF is doing. There are going to be millions and millions who don't know that their legally bought or built pistols are now arbitrarily illegal. FATF doesn't have the manpower to enforce much of anything as they are busy raiding businesses for having drawings on pieces of metal.
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:28:23 PM EST
[#45]
I wonder what is going to happen when we actually realize it 535 vs.332,403,650?
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:28:45 PM EST
[#46]
So an 80% build will be a firearm...
but how will a 3d print build be any different than a home billet build? a 3d print build starts out at 0% build in your home. 
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:29:32 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arbitrary and capricious SC like that one... |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:30:57 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So an 80% build will be a firearm... but how will a 3d print build be any different than a home billet build? a 3d print build starts out at 0% build in your home. Check out this machine gun......ATF probably 
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:32:02 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I speed regularly but don't commit murder......a person can choose to ignore one law and not be required to ignore them all. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, yeah, how many unregistered machine guns and destructive devices do you own? I speed regularly but don't commit murder......a person can choose to ignore one law and not be required to ignore them all. Are you saying unregistered MGs are eviler than unregistered SBRs? |
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Posted: 1/31/2022 1:32:25 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought it was 10/250K? Or is that just for machine guns? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 10 years in prison, $10,000 fine, seizure of the firearm I thought it was 10/250K? Or is that just for machine guns? You’re right. There was an amendment to the statute. My mistake. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-15/download |
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