[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF (Page 1 of 6)
Posted: 3/14/2008 8:19:53 PM EDT
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Link of another reason the ATF can suck a fat one What a bunch of dicks. The gun malfunctioned...... seriously, the guy has been in the military for 16 years.... shows you that gun control laws only throw law abiding citizens in jail. Title edited ~ 82nd |
Hey it was a good line and I just had to use it 
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Pato, This was an Olympic arms rifle with a known defect (the owner did not know about it, though). Also, it was old with a high round count, which led to worn parts. A young guy borrowed it from the now convicted felon and fired 800 rounds through it at a range. It double tapped somewhere around 800. The kid was reported and then dropped the dime on the owner (the kid was test driving it to buy it). ETA: When the ATF did its inspection at the lab, they could not get it to double. They had to manipulate the parts and use soft-primered ammo to get it to slamfire. In essence, the government argued at the guy's trial that he knew of the defect. I don't think that they asserted that he modified the weapon. If they did, they had no proof because evidence was presented that the rifle was still in factory configuration. |
Ever heard the term "slam fire?" It's not that rare of an occurance. I had a pin walk once on me and had the very same thing happened. Lucky for me, no BATF assholes were snooping around the time it happened. |
| I dont see how its possable to charge him since it dosent have an auto sear.... its not "reliable automatic fire" This case has been fought and won before when the ATF assembled an AR15 without some parts to make it fire more than one round per trigger pull. They lost. |
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OK, so let's say it WAS a true malfunction. The guy has an attorney--right? He had his day in court with a jury of his peers, right? Somehow, through all of that, the jury just figured they buy off on some ATF concocted and unsupported story that he somehow manipulated this weapon, on purpose, to fire fully automatic. Then, they couldn't reproduce the event unless they used inferior ammunition and manipulated the worn parts---all discoverable by any law school graduate. I still don't get it. Does anyone really KNOW what happened or are we taking the news story as gospel? pato |
All I know is that in a case involving a law-abiding, honorably discharged veteran who is a productive member of society vs corrupt, power-hungry government, I'll side with the citizen. |
ATF plants are alive and well on this website.  So nice to know that we have people who believe in the Constitution. You don't know whether certain objections were wrongfully ruled on. You don't know whether certain evidence was incorrectly allowed to be admitted. You also don't know whether expert witnesses were properly qualified. Trial Courts get overturned ALL THE TIME. That is why we have an Appeals System my friend or do you disagree with that like you do an individual's right to bear arms? |
Shouldn't you be somewhere applying your boot to someone's face? Just don't forget the tax stamps for the shoelaces 
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Holy living fuck. That is fucking insane. I'm not surprised by the actions of the ATF, the levels to which they stoop know no limits. I want to know what communist twinkle-toed shit stain motherfucker reported the gun as being FA after being having a malfunction What the fuck is the world coming to when we cant even trust our fellow gun enthusiast? |
According to the evidence, a slam fire occured. Are you actually suggesting that a 'slam fire' makes a MG?  The lengths that some folks will go to to defend the most corrupt bureau in the US government... amazing... |
Pato, you have been in law enforcement long enough to know that juries do strange things sometimes. If that weren't the case, then nobody would ever win an appeal. |
You're new. That feeling of disgust will actually pass here in a little while and you just accept it. |
No, you didn't state anything except your opinion. Everyone is law abiding right up until they violate the law. So, let's play this out. He "loans" the rifle to some guy that brings it to a range and fires it so much, with such inferior ammunition that it malfunctions and shoots a short burst. Guy then decides, despite the fact that he has run 800 rounds of crap through someone else's weapon--to call the po-po and report the fact that a weapon that hasn't been modified has malfunctioned WHILE NOT IN THE POSSESSION OF THE OWNER, and that the guy who is in possession of it---had NOTHING to do with the malfunction. The po-po, opun hearing this tale, decides that the tyranny MUST go on, and deicdes to ramp this up to a Federal charge---you know, because ATF agnets have nothing better to do with their time than to falsly manufacture cases against innocent individuals---especially when the weapon in question hasn't been altered and they can't replicate the malfunction without abuse of the weapon. This goes SO far that they are able to convince a jury that the law abiding citizen with an unaltered weapon allowed some other guy to take the unaltered weapon and fire 800 rounds of crap through it, and the jury believes that the owner KNEW it would malfunction even though it wasn't altered and wasn't even in his possession when it did malfunction? Yeah, I'm thinking maybe there is something we are hearing here. pato |
I disagree with an individual's right to bear arms? News to me. pato |
The guy fired hundreds of rounds through the rifle at a place that was crawling with Fudds. Fudds hate rapid semi-auto fire they feel that a gun range should be very peaceful with only the odd shot or two of a hunter sighting in his rifle to break the silence. Trust me every gun range in this country has some old retired Fudd who hangs around just to bitch at black rifle owners. |
Stop being a drama queen. pato |
No, I KNOW that a malfunction doesn't make a machine gun and I KNOW that a malfunction doesn't meet the standards in order to charge someone with a crime like that. If it was a malfunction--then it wasn't done knowingly. They can't prove negligence since the OTHER guy shot all of the 800 rounds through it prior to the malfunction--so how did they get the charge to stick and a jury to buy it? pato |
Looks like you summed up the cluster fuck pretty well... seems quite plausible. |
I'll tell it's not news to anyone who reads your posts here. Taking a position that a man should face prison for up to six years over a firearms violation when that individual had no intent to commit a crime and a Second Amendment right to bear that firearm = a person who believes firearms ownership is a privilege. |
FedDC is that you I thought the news clip said somebody heard the borrower shooting his gun, heard the slamfires then reported him. At which point the borrower said where he got the gun. Also the news report said that the goverment was forced into trying many different types of ammo until the could actually replicate the slam fire..thus giving more credence to the fact that their charge was based on a malfunction and not on a modification... You actually think a jury understands firearms or just understands that most people who are charged are in fact guilty if the goverment says so... Clearly you are either an ATF agent or you have lofty aspirations of one day joining them.. I cant see any other reasons to side with what appears to be a heavily flawed case... Even CNN thinks your wrong...
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How are shoe laces considered a MG? Well the same folks that brought us that fucked up logic are behind this case... Is it really that hard to figure out? |
Oh no, I've had my fair share of being bitched at for shooting more than one .22 in a split second, I just never suspected that these guys had the lack of testicles as far as to report jack shit to the ATF. (the range officers definitely, around here they all have a musket up their ass) |
Yeah, except for three things. ATF agents aren't going to pull stunts like that and the guy's attorney would have to be incompetent and the jury a bunch of brain dead morons to buy the story. Even IF the ATF made the entire thing up--the attorney could EASILY instill reasonable doubt IF the guy's story is true. Come on, the weapon wasn't even in his possession when it allegedly malfunctioned--right? Then, by default--the blame goes on the guy who had possessiona and was firing it. Tell me, why didn't the ATF look at the shooter? pato |
LOL they didn't even charge him with possession... they charged him with transferring. |